Game of Thrones

[phork]

Got ahold of a Season 8 Ep2 summary. Yoinks.

 

[IrishLion]

Got ahold of a Season 8 Ep2 summary. Yoinks.

Disregard my original request.

I don't want to know, and I have reason to believe that season 8 leaks won't be legit for a while.

Status quo is that accurate leaks don't come out until filming.

 

[woolybug25]

Here's a theory. I think Beric has the sword Dawn. Which is why we had the scene with the Hound telling him that he didn't understand why the Lord of Light kept bringing back such an unextraordinary person.

See, we don't know where Dawn is other than Ned took it from Dayne at the Tower of Joy. They also don't show the sword, but there is a trailer with Beric holding a flaming sword. The Azor Ahai prophecy states that Dawn is the sword needed to defeat the Knight's King. That sword needs to get to whomever Azor Ahai is (Jon). So that must be why the Lord of Light keeps bringing that basic bitch back time over time. Cuz he needs to eventually give it to Jon when he returns Lionclaw back to Jorah.

[/takes breath]

 

[zelezo vlk]

Here's a theory. I think Beric has the sword Dawn. Which is why we had the scene with the Hound telling him that he didn't understand why the Lord of Light kept bringing back such an unextraordinary person.

See, we don't know where Dawn is other than Ned took it from Dayne at the Tower of Joy. They also don't show the sword, but there is a trailer with Beric holding a flaming sword. The Azor Ahai prophecy states that Dawn is the sword needed to defeat the Knight's King. That sword needs to get to whomever Azor Ahai is (Jon). So that must be why the Lord of Light keeps bringing that basic bitch back time over time. Cuz he needs to eventually give it to Jon when he returns Lionclaw back to Jorah.

[/takes breath]

Well, Beric ignited his sword during his battle with The Hound, right?

 

[woolybug25]

Well, Beric ignited his sword during his battle with The Hound, right?

 

[zelezo vlk]

That's a nice little theory you've got there.

I guess the issue would be this quote from Martin on the ASOIAF wiki:

Dawn remains at Starfall, until another Sword of the Morning shall arise.

Dawn - A Wiki of Ice and Fire

 

[IrishLion]

Here's a theory. I think Beric has the sword Dawn. Which is why we had the scene with the Hound telling him that he didn't understand why the Lord of Light kept bringing back such an unextraordinary person.

See, we don't know where Dawn is other than Ned took it from Dayne at the Tower of Joy. They also don't show the sword, but there is a trailer with Beric holding a flaming sword. The Azor Ahai prophecy states that Dawn is the sword needed to defeat the Knight's King. That sword needs to get to whomever Azor Ahai is (Jon). So that must be why the Lord of Light keeps bringing that basic bitch back time over time. Cuz he needs to eventually give it to Jon when he returns Lionclaw back to Jorah.

[/takes breath]

I dont think Dawn = Lightbringer

I thought Lightbringer could be any sword, so long as its forged properly (in the heart of tPtwP's lover). I could be off on my understanding of the lore, though.

That would lead to another question... is the "desolate" ending going to be that Jon has to sacrifice Dany in order to forge his sword and defeat the Night's King?

Dany can't have kids anyway, which will present another problem down the line if Jon and Dany get together

 

[IrishLax]

I dont think Dawn = Lightbringer

I thought Lightbringer could be any sword, so long as its forged properly (in the heart of tPtwP's lover). I could be off on my understanding of the lore, though.

That would lead to another question... is the "desolate" ending going to be that Jon has to sacrifice Dany in order to forge his sword and defeat the Night's King?

Dany can't have kids anyway, which will present another problem down the line if Jon and Dany get together

There's some debate on that, centered around the end of Book 5.

 

[IrishLion]

There's some debate on that, centered around the end of Book 5.

I've read the books a few times, but can't recall anything in that regard... what clue did I miss lol

 

[IrishLax]

I've read the books a few times, but can't recall anything in that regard... what clue did I miss lol

It sounds like she basically has a miscarriage and is like "wtf?"

 

[woolybug25]

That's a nice little theory you've got there.

I guess the issue would be this quote from Martin on the ASOIAF wiki:



Dawn - A Wiki of Ice and Fire

I guess my thought (tinfoil) is that first of all, GRRM said that almost 4 years ago. At that time, Beric was still just a lord. But guess who his squire was? You guessed it... Edric Dayne. I also don't believe Beric's family had a great sword and yet he clearly has one now.

Mostly my guess stems from the fact that Dawn is the most unique of the great swords, it's name (what ends the long night? Dawn of course) and the fact that the Lord of Light is keeping him alive for something.

 

[irishog77]

Here's a theory. I think Beric has the sword Dawn. Which is why we had the scene with the Hound telling him that he didn't understand why the Lord of Light kept bringing back such an unextraordinary person.

See, we don't know where Dawn is other than Ned took it from Dayne at the Tower of Joy. They also don't show the sword, but there is a trailer with Beric holding a flaming sword. The Azor Ahai prophecy states that Dawn is the sword needed to defeat the Knight's King. That sword needs to get to whomever Azor Ahai is (Jon). So that must be why the Lord of Light keeps bringing that basic bitch back time over time. Cuz he needs to eventually give it to Jon when he returns Lionclaw back to Jorah.

[/takes breath]

I guess my thought (tinfoil) is that first of all, GRRM said that almost 4 years ago. At that time, Beric was still just a lord. But guess who his squire was? You guessed it... Edric Dayne. I also don't believe Beric's family had a great sword and yet he clearly has one now.

Mostly my guess stems from the fact that Dawn is the most unique of the great swords, it's name (what ends the long night? Dawn of course) and the fact that the Lord of Light is keeping him alive for something.

Wooly may be right. I've never read the books and I don't nerd-out over the show. I've never really understood who he is. Didn't he just kind of emerge in season 2 of the show, with no real backstory and screen time? Basing it off how showbiz typically does these things, Beric is a recurring character for some reason. Sorta like my theory of Eunich Greyjoy-- he gets very little screen time and serves no real purpose to the show or storyline anymore...until he will.

 

[IrishLion]

It sounds like she basically has a miscarriage and is like "wtf?"

I figured there would be a workaround or solution to her "never having children" curse if she really ends up with Jon, but i figured that would be tbe epilogue or something if they both survive the full narrative

 

[irishog77]

I figured there would be a workaround or solution to her "never having children" curse if she really ends up with Jon, but i figured that would be tbe epilogue or something if they both survive the full narrative

I think Jon said he isn't keen on having kids, growing up a bastard. I always thought he and Dany would be a perfect match-- rule for the betterment of the people and not worry about positioning their descendants for the future.

Or he could just pull out.

 

[irishroo]

Speaking of Dawn and swords and prophecies, one thing the prophecy does state is that the Prince That Was Promised will be born "when the stars bleed" or "when the red star bleeds." If you rewatch the scene in the season 6 finale at the Tower of Joy, you'll notice they emphasize Ned leaning Arthur Dayne's still-bloody sword, called Dawn, against Lyanna's bed as she's giving birth to Jon. In what I'm sure is just a big coincidence, the sword Dawn is said to be forged from the heart of a fallen star...

 

[GATTACA!]

I guess my thought (tinfoil) is that first of all, GRRM said that almost 4 years ago. At that time, Beric was still just a lord. But guess who his squire was? You guessed it... Edric Dayne. I also don't believe Beric's family had a great sword and yet he clearly has one now.

Mostly my guess stems from the fact that Dawn is the most unique of the great swords, it's name (what ends the long night? Dawn of course) and the fact that the Lord of Light is keeping him alive for something.

Does he? I don't think there's anything significant about his sword. I could be completely wrong but I can almost swear I remember a passage about him breaking it at some point. It just being a run of the mill sword coated in oil or whatever.

Edit: Looked it up and apparently it was actually from the show, maybe it appears in both? Idk.

This is from the GoT Wiki

Using magic, Beric ignites his blade with fire, initially giving him an advantage during the fight due to Sandor's fear of fire. However, Sandor's superior strength eventually proves enough to overpower Beric, and with a powerful downward swipe Sandor cuts deep into Beric's shoulder, nearly cutting off his entire arm and cutting right through his flaming sword. Arya attempts to kill the Hound while he tries to extinguish his shield which had been set a flame during the fight, but she is stopped by Gendry. Sandor taunts Arya over how the gods prefer him over her friend, but he is interrupted and shocked by Beric, who has been revived and healed by Thoros using the Lord of Light's power. Since Sandor effectively won the fight, Beric declares him innocent and sets him free, but keeps Arya with the Brotherhood, intending to ransom her to her mother and brother at Riverrun.[5]

 

[woolybug25]

Does he? I don't think there's anything significant about his sword. I could be completely wrong but I can almost swear I remember a passage about him breaking it at some point. It just being a run of the mill sword coated in oil or whatever.

Edit: Looked it up and apparently it was actually from the show, maybe it appears in both? Idk.

This is from the GoT Wiki

That was the sword he fought The Hound with. He has a different sword on his side now. One the show has taken careful eye to hide with his hand placement.

When googling evidence, I ran across this YouTube, so apparently I'm not the first person to think that Beric is holding Dawn.

https://youtu.be/c6ZDFtfxwVY

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I had no idea all of these swords mattered so much.

So Jon has Longclaw, a Mormont sword.
Ice was melted down and re-made for the Lannisters.
Dawn - unknown. Last known whereabouts, Tower of Joy? House Dayne?
Lightbringer - Stannis' sword. Only in name, not by legend?

The true Lightbringer - is this where the theory that Beric has it in his possession?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

That was the sword he fought The Hound with. He has a different sword on his side now. One the show has taken careful eye to hide with his hand placement.

When googling evidence, I ran across this YouTube, so apparently I'm not the first person to think that Beric is holding Dawn.

https://youtu.be/c6ZDFtfxwVY

Are you saying Dawn and Lightbringer are the same sword? As in Dawn by name, Lightbringer by legend?

Edit: Just watched the Youtube video. Helped me out. Good stuff.

 

[dublinirish]

I had no idea all of these swords mattered so much.

So Jon has Longclaw, a Mormont sword.
Ice was melted down and re-made for the Lannisters.
Dawn - unknown. Last known whereabouts, Tower of Joy? House Dayne?
Lightbringer - Stannis' sword. Only in name, not by legend?

The true Lightbringer - is this where the theory that Beric has it in his possession?

It was melted down to make two swords yeah? Jaime then gifted one to Brienne though right?

 

[GATTACA!]

That was the sword he fought The Hound with. He has a different sword on his side now. One the show has taken careful eye to hide with his hand placement.

When googling evidence, I ran across this YouTube, so apparently I'm not the first person to think that Beric is holding Dawn.

https://youtu.be/c6ZDFtfxwVY

Sure but what's different now that would lead you to believe he's found a legendary sword? He was lighting his on fire with other ones and he was being resurrected with other ones, both when we know they were just your everyday steel.

Edit: Also just watched the video and the crossguard is wrong in the season 7 trailer for it to be Dawn.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sure but what's different now that would lead you to believe he's found a legendary sword? He was lighting his on fire with other ones and he was being resurrected with other ones, both when we know they were just your everyday steel.

Watch that youtube video. It mentions how in a S7 trailer, his sword spontaneously lights on fire.

 

[GATTACA!]

Watch that youtube video. It mentions how in a S7 trailer, his sword spontaneously lights on fire.

I edited my comment too late lol. The sword he's holding in that trailer has a straight crossguard, Dawn's is very curved. They're not even close.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I edited my comment too late lol. The sword he's holding in that trailer has a straight crossguard, Dawn's is very curved. They're not even close.

Good call.

 

[woolybug25]

Sure but what's different now that would lead you to believe he's found a legendary sword? He was lighting his on fire with other ones and he was being resurrected with other ones, both when we know they were just your everyday steel.

Edit: Also just watched the video and the crossguard is wrong in the season 7 trailer for it to be Dawn.

Because his squire was a Dayne and he was originally betrothed to a Dayne.

It looks like it isn't the sword that he has on fire in the trailer, as the crossguard is wrong as you mentioned. But do you deny that the sword on his hip in the picture above having the same butt as Dawn?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Because his squire was a Dayne and he was originally betrothed to a Dayne.

It looks like it isn't the sword that he has on fire in the trailer, as the crossguard is wrong as you mentioned. But do you deny that the sword on his hip in the picture above having the same butt as Dawn?

Crossguard looks wrong in that photo too imo.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Because his squire was a Dayne and he was originally betrothed to a Dayne.

It looks like it isn't the sword that he has on fire in the trailer, as the crossguard is wrong as you mentioned. But do you deny that the sword on his hip in the picture above having the same butt as Dawn?

Crossguard looks wrong in that photo too imo. Hard to tell with the angle though. I can't "overturn the call" based on that shot alone. And given what we know about other shots, it's not Dawn. Just my two cents.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

UNLESS!!! It is and there was a serious drop of the ball with the details this whole time. Queue Wiz and every other hater to point it out when it happens.

 

[GATTACA!]

Because his squire was a Dayne and he was originally betrothed to a Dayne.

It looks like it isn't the sword that he has on fire in the trailer, as the crossguard is wrong as you mentioned. But do you deny that the sword on his hip in the picture above having the same butt as Dawn?

Being his squire wouldn't really mean much because we know the sword made its way back to Starfall. And with being betrothed to a Dayne why would he just be getting the sword now? Once he's with the Brotherhood off meandering in the riverlands how would he come into possession of it?

Plus look close at the crossguard there between the H and A in has. Thats the same small straight crossguard as the one he's holding in the trailer when it ignites. Maybe that type of pommel just isn't very unique.

 

[woolybug25]

Being his squire wouldn't really mean much because we know the sword made its way back to Starfall. And with being betrothed to a Dayne why would he just be getting the sword now? Once he's with the Brotherhood off meandering in the riverlands how would he come into possession of it?

It made it back to Starfall years before The War of The Kings. Nobody said that he just got the sword. He also wouldn't just be wielding around the most identifiable great sword in Westoros during fights and such. Carrying it and using it are two different things.

Plus look close at the crossguard there between the H and A in has. Thats the same small straight crossguard as the one he's holding in the trailer when it ignites. Maybe that type of pommel just isn't very unique.

I agree that the sword he uses in that trailer doesn't have the same cross guard, but alone doesn't disprove the theory that he has the sword. I can't think of someone else in the story that would be more likely to have it and the sword is obviously important if they keep showing it in the manner they did (in particularly the warged scene of the Tower of Joy). So the sword will re enter the story.