Game of Thrones

[Irish YJ]

Sansa's storyline is pretty obviously "naive noble girl learns court intrigue from master manipulator that betrayed her family, becomes a skilled political actor, then turns the tables on her teacher". So her dispatching Petyr just as he did Lysa (utilizing the other's desire to do so) seems too good for GRRM to pass up.

Would love to see some really dark shit from Sansa.

 

[TomHaverford]

Vox's Matthew Yglesias just published an article titled "Game of Thrones' 'Battle of the Bastards' looked great, but it didn't make any damn sense":

absolutely nailed it.

still a great episode IMO, but could've been so much better. I can see why they killed off Rickon though. He's a pretty useless character on the show.

Oh and Sansa just annoys the shit out of me now. Like why the hell does she keep secrets from Jon? She let a ton of his men get killed when they obviously didn't have to. Could've planned that whole Knights of the Vale to the rescue shit a lot better.

Oh and Little Finger must die. I want Jon to find out he married his sister off to Ramsay Bolton and just snap and beat Little Finger to death with his bare hands.

 

[GATTACA!]

absolutely nailed it.

still a great episode IMO, but could've been so much better. I can see why they killed off Rickon though. He's a pretty useless character on the show.

Oh and Sansa just annoys the shit out of me now. Like why the hell does she keep secrets from Jon? She let a ton of his men get killed when they obviously didn't have to. Could've planned that whole Knights of the Vale to the rescue shit a lot better.

Oh and Little Finger must die. I want Jon to find out he married his sister off to Ramsay Bolton and just snap and beat Little Finger to death with his bare hands.

Also how would they keep that secret from the Boltons? No one noticed a thousand armed riders heading for Winterfell? It would make more sense in the book universe where everything is bogged down with snow right now, but in fair weather someone would have spotted that army.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

absolutely nailed it.

still a great episode IMO, but could've been so much better. I can see why they killed off Rickon though. He's a pretty useless character on the show.

Oh and Sansa just annoys the shit out of me now. Like why the hell does she keep secrets from Jon? She let a ton of his men get killed when they obviously didn't have to. Could've planned that whole Knights of the Vale to the rescue shit a lot better.

Oh and Little Finger must die. I want Jon to find out he married his sister off to Ramsay Bolton and just snap and beat Little Finger to death with his bare hands.

That death is too good for Littlefinger. Ramsay was a monster but he was an honest monster. Littlefinder is a secret monster which makes me hate him that much more. He's a weasel who needs the rug pulled out from under him at a moment when he feels secure/loved. It's the only appropriate death.

 

[wizards8507]

That death is too good for Littlefinger. Ramsay was a monster but he was an honest monster. Littlefinder is a secret monster which makes me hate him that much more. He's a weasel who needs the rug pulled out from under him at a moment when he feels secure/loved. It's the only appropriate death.

I'll be interested to see what direction they take LF both in the show and in the books. Along with Varys, he's probably the best player of the "game" of thrones. I expect his arc will go the way of Icarus. I don't think death would be a very poetic end for him. Poverty would be much more appropriate.

 

[IrishLion]

I'll be interested to see what direction they take LF both in the show and in the books. Along with Varys, he's probably the best player of the "game" of thrones. I expect his arc will go the way of Icarus.

What would be "the Sun" in that scenario for Littlefinger?

Tries too hard to weasel his way into the good graces of the Northerners, they realize he's a shithead, and he does himself in by being overly clever?

 

[wizards8507]

What would be "the Sun" in that scenario for Littlefinger?

Tries too hard to weasel his way into the good graces of the Northerners, they realize he's a shithead, and he does himself in by being overly clever?

I think he's already reached the sun when you consider his entire life. He came from absolutely nothing and weaseled his way onto the small council. Jon knows that the real threat to the world is north of the wall, so he won't stick around Winterfell to rule the North. That means LF will have tacit control over the North and the Vale.

I think his demise comes in one of two ways. Either 1) his interests conflict with one of the few people who are better at the "game" than he is (Varys or Sansa) or 2) he succeeds in all worldly scheming but ends up completely out of his element against something supernatural, whether ice or fire.

 

[johnnycando]

I think he's already reached the sun when you consider his entire life. He came from absolutely nothing and weaseled his way onto the small council. Jon knows that the real threat to the world is north of the wall, so he won't stick around Winterfell to rule the North. That means LF will have tacit control over the North and the Vale.

I think his demise comes in one of two ways. Either 1) his interests conflict with one of the few people who are better at the "game" than he is (Varys or Sansa) or 2) he succeeds in all worldly scheming but ends up completely out of his element against something supernatural, whether ice or fire.

OR

He learns of his lineage, and he and Daenarys partner up.

And rule the world...

After whooping the WW.

 

[IrishLion]

I think his demise comes in one of two ways. Either 1) his interests conflict with one of the few people who are better at the "game" than he is (Varys or Sansa) or 2) he succeeds in all worldly scheming but ends up completely out of his element against something supernatural, whether ice or fire.

There's a true Icarus moment:

He shows up for a meeting with [Dany][Night's King] to try and use his cleverness to form a pact/treaty of some sort to protect his own ass, after realizing that his conquering of the political world won't help him in the impending Icepocalypse.

Truthfully, he's already been scheming, and [Dany][Night's King] already knows this.

At the meeting, where he thinks he's going to be clever, he gets bathed in fire or given the Fingernail of Ice. Littlefinger has flown too close to the [Fire][Ice] and has met his demise.

 

[wizards8507]

There's a true Icarus moment:

He shows up for a meeting with [Dany][Night's King] to try and use his cleverness to form a pact/treaty of some sort to protect his own ass, after realizing that his conquering of the political world won't help him in the impending Icepocalypse.

Truthfully, he's already been scheming, and [Dany][Night's King] already knows this.

At the meeting, where he thinks he's going to be clever, he gets bathed in fire or given the Fingernail of Ice. Littlefinger has flown too close to the [Fire][Ice] and has met his demise.

I think that's the solution I like the best, but if I had to guess I'd predict it's Sansa that takes him down in a Sith "Rule of Two" kind of situation.

Surpassed the Teacher - TV Tropes

 

[GoIrish41]

absolutely nailed it.

still a great episode IMO, but could've been so much better. I can see why they killed off Rickon though. He's a pretty useless character on the show.

Oh and Sansa just annoys the shit out of me now. Like why the hell does she keep secrets from Jon? She let a ton of his men get killed when they obviously didn't have to. Could've planned that whole Knights of the Vale to the rescue shit a lot better.

Oh and Little Finger must die. I want Jon to find out he married his sister off to Ramsay Bolton and just snap and beat Little Finger to death with his bare hands.

In fairness to Sansa on the "keeping secrets" piece, she didn't know how Littlefinger would react to her request for troops. It was a shot in the dark by her. It could have been catastophic if she would have told Jon he was coming to support the cause and he decided to sit it out. One never knows what Littlefinger is going to do. But, I agree that Littlefinger deserves a horrible death.

 

[wizards8507]

In fairness to Sansa on the "keeping secrets" piece, she didn't know how Littlefinger would react to her request for troops. It was a shot in the dark by her. It could have been catastophic if she would have told Jon he was coming to support the cause and he decided to sit it out. One never knows what Littlefinger is going to do.

I also think it was strategically important that they showed up late. If Ramsay had seen the KotV in Jon's army, he never would have met them in the field. Jon's small army drew Ramsay out of Winterfell and goaded him into a proper battle as opposed to a siege.

Why Ramsay had no scouts or ravens from Moat Cailin telling him the KotV were riding north is a separate question.

 

[GoIrish41]

I also think it was strategically important that they showed up late. If Ramsay had seen the KotV in Jon's army, he never would have met them in the field. Jon's small army drew Ramsay out of Winterfell and goaded him into a proper battle as opposed to a siege.

Why Ramsay had no scouts or ravens from Moat Cailin telling him the KotV were riding north is a separate question.

Agreed on all. I also agree with you that the story is setting up Sansa to be the student who beats the master. She has been painfully annoying and weak almost every season, and her coming into her own is one of the most compelling storylines this season.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I'll be interested to see what direction they take LF both in the show and in the books. Along with Varys, he's probably the best player of the "game" of thrones. I expect his arc will go the way of Icarus. I don't think death would be a very poetic end for him. Poverty would be much more appropriate.

Reducing LittleFinger to poverty doesn't end his storyline, he's clever enough to rise back up. The difference between Littlefinger and Varys is that Varys wants peace in the world and works to make it happen (while protecting himself) whereas Littlefinger wants himself at the top of the world and works to make it happen. He doesn't give a damn, ends justify means in every situation for Littlefinger. Even with the daughter of the woman he loved, he handed her over without issue.

Littlefinger's selfishness/cunning will be his demise. And it must be a death that immediately follows a successful move on the chess table. Littlefinger needs to have an arrogant moment in front of a crowd, giving one of his smug speeches about how he knew and planned for some type of victory, then it needs to turn on him and he needs to be given only long enough to realize all of his political maneuvering was for naught.

And we need to see him alone and cold and then death becomes him.

That's the only way I can see him getting his due process but since it's GRRM, he'll probably rule the North, make a terrible tactical decision that works in his favor against the Night king, and be revered in history as Azor Ahai for ever and ever. amen.

 

[wizards8507]

Reducing LittleFinger to poverty doesn't end his storyline, he's clever enough to rise back up. The difference between Littlefinger and Varys is that Varys wants peace in the world and works to make it happen (while protecting himself) whereas Littlefinger wants himself at the top of the world and works to make it happen. He doesn't give a damn, ends justify means in every situation for Littlefinger. Even with the daughter of the woman he loved, he handed her over without issue.

Littlefinger's selfishness/cunning will be his demise. And it must be a death that immediately follows a successful move on the chess table. Littlefinger needs to have an arrogant moment in front of a crowd, giving one of his smug speeches about how he knew and planned for some type of victory, then it needs to turn on him and he needs to be given only long enough to realize all of his political maneuvering was for naught.

And we need to see him alone and cold and then death becomes him.

That's the only way I can see him getting his due process but since it's GRRM, he'll probably rule the North, make a terrible tactical decision that works in his favor against the Night king, and be revered in history as Azor Ahai for ever and ever. amen.

You're a book reader, yes? Do you hate BookBaelish like this, or just Batfinger? He totes got Sansa raped in the show, but I'm rooting for him hard in the books.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You're a book reader, yes? Do you hate BookBaelish like this, or just Batfinger? He totes got Sansa raped in the show, but I'm rooting for him hard in the books.

Not sure which books you read, but the Baelish who: (1) betrays Ned by bribing the City Guard to support Cersei; and (2) keeps Jeyne Pool in a brothel, and then marries her off to Ramsay Bolton is not someone any reader with a conscience should be rooting for.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

You're a book reader, yes? Do you hate BookBaelish like this, or just Batfinger? He totes got Sansa raped in the show, but I'm rooting for him hard in the books.

I haven't finished all of the books. I let the show take me forward. I will revisit them when I have time in my life to devour them all consecutively. I have a few too many things going on at present so they stay shelved.

Not sure which books you read, but the Baelish who: (1) betrays Ned by bribing the City Guard to support Cersei; and (2) keeps Jeyne Pool in a brothel, and then marries her off to Ramsay Bolton is not someone any reader with a conscience should be rooting for.

From what I read of Littlefinger, I disliked him greatly but I only made it through 2 books. Perhaps he has humanizing moments of which I'm unaware.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

From what I read of Littlefinger, I disliked him greatly but I only made it through 2 books. Perhaps he has humanizing moments of which I'm unaware.

He outwits and takes down some very bad actors in ASoIaF, so he's not without some redeeming qualities. But he's definitely not a good guy. He's ruthlessly ambitious, basically amoral, and has a creepy fixation on the (under-age) Sansa.

GRRM is setting him up for a very big fall.

 

[wizards8507]

Not sure which books you read, but the Baelish who: (1) betrays Ned by bribing the City Guard to support Cersei; and (2) keeps Jeyne Pool in a brothel, and then marries her off to Ramsay Bolton is not someone any reader with a conscience should be rooting for.

"Reader with a conscience," give me a break. I bet you've never played a video game where you're a bad guy, either.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

"Reader with a conscience," give me a break. I bet you've never played a video game where you're a bad guy, either.

I've played many games where evil is an option, but I don't enjoy taking those routes; I think it's generally unhealthy to roleplay in such ways. Though I'm struggling to think of a game where the protagonist is clearly evil.

 

[wizards8507]

I've played many games where evil is an option, but I don't enjoy taking those routes; I think it's generally unhealthy to roleplay in such ways.

In general, I agree. But I've found traditional conception of good and evil fairly useless in the time I spend in Westeros.

Though I'm struggling to think of a game where the protagonist is clearly evil.

"Evil" might be more nuanced than I'm prepared to argue, but you'd be hard-pressed to make a moral argument for something as benign as Overwatch. You know, the game where you try to kill the other team with bonus points for shooting them in the face.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

"Evil" might be more nuanced than I'm prepared to argue, but you'd be hard-pressed to make a moral argument for something as benign as Overwatch. You know, the game where you try to kill the other team with bonus points for shooting them in the face.

That's your argument? I can't argue against rooting for Petyr Baelish because I enjoy first-person shooters?

If I enjoyed running over pedestrians and murdering hookers in GTA V, you might have a point. But Overwatch is a major stretch...

 

[ACamp1900]

This thread is becoming about as bad as the politics thread.... we need a serious food discussion one off to help reset things...

 

[pkt77242]

This thread is becoming about as bad as the politics thread.... we need a serious food discussion one off to help reset things...

ETA: A real cheese steak sandwich should have cheez wiz on it.

 

[wizards8507]

ETA: A real cheese steak sandwich should have cheez wiz on it.

Wiz approves this message.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This thread is becoming about as bad as the politics thread.... we need a serious food discussion one off to help reset things...

Horse heart... yay or nay? Appropriate to serve when introducing your girlfriend to the family for the first time?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Someone carved this out of a watermelon:

 

[IrishLax]

This thread is becoming about as bad as the politics thread.... we need a serious food discussion one off to help reset things...

Ok new discussion topic: is there a man alive in Westeros who could handle a threesome with Danerys and Asha Greyjoy?

 

[zelezo vlk]

Ok new discussion topic: is there a man alive in Westeros who could handle a threesome with Danerys and Asha Greyjoy?

Podrick?

 

[pkt77242]

Ok new discussion topic: is there a man alive in Westeros who could handle a threesome with Danerys and Asha Greyjoy?

Nope. But many would love to try.