FSU Criminal Investigations

[ACamp1900]

You trolling? You're not actually comparing the situations are you? They have literally nothing in common except that they both involve punches.

well, technically speaking the people in both videos are wearing clothes...

 

[IrishLax]

well, technically speaking the people in both videos are wearing clothes...

And they're both humans. Damn it. Three things in common.

 

[ohara831]

She did nothing in that video that justifies that right hand he delivered to her head. He is totally and completely in the wrong.

 

[Wild Bill]

So big, strong D1 athlete moves in and pushes girl and she turns around to hold her ground and he makes threatening movements by grabbing at her so she goes to push him away and he punches her in the face. And they should both be charged?

It appears she was doing more than simply holding her ground.

He never felt threatened by her and arguing that he did is bullshit. He never looked intimidated, he always looked like the aggressor given his body movements.

I agree that he never felt threatened and the force used was unjustified. I don't agree that he was the initial aggressor.

 

[Irish YJ]

It was not just because she mouthed off though. I don't think it was a smart move to grab her wrists, but I get why he'd do it. Man, woman, transgender, or whatever, I would rather you not punch me.



Actually you're more likely to find me in an old person bar than a campus bar because of stuff like this. People handle themselves a lot better and the atmosphere is often just a lot better and more friendly. (And good beers at good prices as opposed to 4 dollars for like a Miller Lite or some domestic crap.)



Have you considered the hypothetical of that girl being able to lay some freaking wood though? Or does it have to be a man before you feel threatened?

I'm still posting in this thread because I feel like we can all discuss this in a civil manner. Don't start trying to attack people's character by acting like we support this guy hitting the girl. His actions are more justified (not sure if that's the perfect word) than suggested though.

Question, what are your feelings towards the following video?

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lO88Sj6u6yQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

I get that it doesn't represent what happened perfectly, but you still have a much larger kid who could likely take the smaller kid's punches (like is assumed in this particular case) and just walk away, but instead he retaliates. Are his actions justified? Did he use excessive force? Why?

The chick was not a wallflower but did not throw a couple of a couple of unprovoked punches. There looked to be provocation from both. IMO, both chick and athlete were wrong. Both should have walked away. Both should be charged.

In the other video, a smaller bully throws unprovoked punches while picking on a much bigger kid. The bigger kid finally has enough and body slams the bully. Definitely didn't have to body slam the kid. Did the little shit deserve it, probably, but the big kid could have held him, pushed him down, or simply walked away. I have to admit that as a kid, I probably would have slugged the brat, but even that is not the right thing to do (assuming we're talking about right and wrong).

 

[GoIrish41]

The chick was not a wallflower but did not throw a couple of a couple of unprovoked punches. There looked to be provocation from both. IMO, both chick and athlete were wrong. Both should have walked away. Both should be charged.

In the other video, a smaller bully throws unprovoked punches while picking on a much bigger kid. The bigger kid finally has enough and body slams the bully. Definitely didn't have to body slam the kid. Did the little shit deserve it, probably, but the big kid could have held him, pushed him down, or simply walked away. I have to admit that as a kid, I probably would have slugged the brat, but even that is not the right thing to do (assuming we're talking about right and wrong).

Bet that little shit will not be picking fights above his weight class anytime soon. Lol

 

[IrishLax]

Have you considered the hypothetical of that girl being able to lay some freaking wood though? Or does it have to be a man before you feel threatened?

I'm still posting in this thread because I feel like we can all discuss this in a civil manner. Don't start trying to attack people's character by acting like we support this guy hitting the girl. His actions are more justified (not sure if that's the perfect word) than suggested though.

A thought experiment isn't attacking anyone's character. I think it does rather clearly illustrate which is the correct side of the discussion to be on, but that's besides the point.

There is grey area with the justification of force. We see it with cop debates... we saw it with Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin... people have different opinions on what is acceptable and what isn't for a given situation.

But to your two questions... 1) No, it is far more probable than not that a small unarmed girl in confined quarters cannot "lay wood" on a large, elite athlete 2) No, obviously it does not have to be a man for someone to be threatened, but it is not reasonable for an elite athlete male that has 6 inches and at least 50 pounds on an unarmed female to feel threatened.

The crux of this is that he is not acting in self defense. It's simple retaliation. He didn't like her attitude or language or that she swung at him after he grabbed her, so he decided to hit her as hard as he could in the face.

So you either believe slugging a girl in the face for antagonizing you is acceptable, or you don't. You can debate how much she antagonized him and if she "deserved" it or whatever to your heart's content. If you believe that a white girl (allegedly) calling a black man an n-bomb == free license to get punched in the face, then that's your moral prerogative.

But I, personally, do not think any level of antagonizing warrants that kind of battery when there is no reasonable threat to the person performing the battery.

 

[Irish YJ]

Bet that little shit will not be picking fights above his weight class anytime soon. Lol

Yep, and I bet the fat kid doesn't take any more shit again. Talk about a popularity reversal of fortune/misfortune with those two at school. The cocky little bastard is now walking around with his head down, and the big kid is probably getting pats on the back.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yep, and I bet the fat kid doesn't take any more shit again. Talk about a popularity reversal of fortune/misfortune with those two at school. The cocky little bastard is now limping noticeably around with his head down, and the big kid is probably getting pats on the back.

FIFY.

That big kid is not taking any more crap, for certain.

 

[kmoose]

So big, strong D1 athlete moves in and pushes girl and she turns around to hold her ground and he makes threatening movements by grabbing at her so she goes to push him away and he punches her in the face. And they should both be charged?

He never felt threatened by her and arguing that he did is bullshit. He never looked intimidated, he always looked like the aggressor given his body movements.

He doesn't have to feel threatened. She punched him in the face!! He is entitled to retaliate and call it self defense. It happens multiple times a day, every day, with big guys knocking down little guys, and no one blinks an eye. They say, "Well, that will teach him to punch a guy that much bigger than him." But because this person has ovaries, we COMPLETELY overlook that and pillory this kid. If this had been Brandon Wimbush, I bet that half of the board would be taking the attitude of "He shouldn't have hit her so hard, but she did invite it by punching him first."

 

[ulukinatme]

She wasn't too bright to throw a punch, but you never hit a girl. Dude should be suspended for at least a few games. Something tells me ol' Jimbo will say "He's a good kid that stood up for himself, he did nothing wrong."

 

[ACamp1900]

She wasn't too bright to throw a punch, but you never hit a girl. Dude should be suspended for at least a few games. Something tells me ol' Jimbo will say "He's a good kid that stood up for himself, he did nothing wrong."

Already booted him...

 

[ulukinatme]

Already booted him...

Damn, I missed that, late to the party, disregard the comment then

 

[BeauBenken]

You trolling? You're not actually comparing the situations are you? They have literally nothing in common except that they both involve punches.

Drunk. Just saw your other response which seems to better respond to what I was trying to get at.

 

[GoldenDome]

So when is that club/bar going to get shut down, or at the very least fined up the ass?

 

[dales5050]

So big, strong D1 athlete moves in and pushes girl and she turns around to hold her ground and he makes threatening movements by grabbing at her so she goes to push him away and he punches her in the face. And they should both be charged?

He never felt threatened by her and arguing that he did is bullshit. He never looked intimidated, he always looked like the aggressor given his body movements.

Sorry. Had to pause and laugh at you.

So now the size or strength of someone needs to be factored? Suggesting that because he is big > he was not threatened is pure stupidity. Then you top it off suggesting she should not be charged.

This is some classic SJW logic here. Nice job.

 

[BGIF]

Yeah, I miss the good 'ol days when you could challenge someone to a duel to the death for insulting you.

No need for duelin' these days for bein' dissed. Just round up the homies and do a drive by. Spray a dozen rounds. Chicago style.

 

[Irish#1]

Actually you're more likely to find me in an old person bar than a campus bar because of stuff like this. People handle themselves a lot better and the atmosphere is often just a lot better and more friendly. (And good beers at good prices as opposed to 4 dollars for like a Miller Lite or some domestic crap.)

So what you're really saying is you like to go cougar hunting!?

 

[Irishbounty28]

Sorry. Had to pause and laugh at you.

So now the size or strength of someone needs to be factored? Suggesting that because he is big > he was not threatened is pure stupidity. Then you top it off suggesting she should not be charged.

This is some classic SJW logic here. Nice job.

I may be way off base, but I am pretty sure that an individuals size is often factored in cases like this. It is similar to domestic violence cases where they would have to determine the Predominant aggressor. Some things taken into account in that situation...

• Offensive and defensive injuries
• The seriousness of injuries received by each party
• Threats made by a party against the other or a family member or a pet
• Whether a party acted in self-defense or in the defense of another
• The height and weight of the parties• Which party has the potential to seriously injure the other party• Any history of domestic violence between the parties
• Prior convictions of assault
• Orders for protection that have been filed by a party
• Whether a party has a fearful demeanor
• Whether a party has a controlling demeanor
• Witness statements

 

[Voltaire]

What if you're aggressively moving up to a crowded college bar and sort of bump into / jostle this sorta cute blonde girl (looking from the back in a dimly lit bar) while you're doing it. She turns around, and it turns out that it's Rhonda Rousey. She's pissed, cocks her fist at you, and then proceeds to knee you in the groin and then delivers a glancing punch to your face.

If you are not either knocked unconscious or otherwise physically incapacitated by this first flurry of blows, what do you do? Do you punch her in the face back or immediately just run away as fast as humanly possible? Does your answer change if you are De'Andre Johnson? Does your answer change if you're wearing overalls but no shirt?

Thoughts?

 

[Irish#1]

It was not just because she mouthed off though. I don't think it was a smart move to grab her wrists, but I get why he'd do it. Man, woman, transgender, or whatever, I would rather you not punch me.



Actually you're more likely to find me in an old person bar than a campus bar because of stuff like this. People handle themselves a lot better and the atmosphere is often just a lot better and more friendly. (And good beers at good prices as opposed to 4 dollars for like a Miller Lite or some domestic crap.)



Have you considered the hypothetical of that girl being able to lay some freaking wood though? Or does it have to be a man before you feel threatened?

I'm still posting in this thread because I feel like we can all discuss this in a civil manner. Don't start trying to attack people's character by acting like we support this guy hitting the girl. His actions are more justified (not sure if that's the perfect word) than suggested though.

Question, what are your feelings towards the following video?

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lO88Sj6u6yQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

I get that it doesn't represent what happened perfectly, but you still have a much larger kid who could likely take the smaller kid's punches (like is assumed in this particular case) and just walk away, but instead he retaliates. Are his actions justified? Did he use excessive force? Why?

That kid was well withing his rights IMO. He took a couple of shots in hopes that the little punk would stop. When he didn't, he delivered his justice. He probably body slammed him, rather than duke it out thinking the little punk was probably too fast to box with. I liked how the girl came in at the end and made that kid turn away. Regardless the little punk won't bother him anymore and with a little thought, he may not bother anyone else.

 

[woolybug25]

That kid was well withing his rights IMO. He took a couple of shots in hopes that the little punk would stop. When he didn't, he delivered his justice. He probably body slammed him, rather than duke it out thinking the little punk was probably too fast to box with. I liked how the girl came in at the end and made that kid turn away. Regardless the little punk won't bother him anymore and with a little thought, he may not bother anyone else.

Yep. The little dude learned a life lesson there.

"Don't mess with the bull unless you're prepared for the horns".

 

[Wingman Ray]

Does your answer change if you're wearing overalls but no shirt?

Thoughts?

Absolute classic! Thank you for the laugh this am.

Fact is people just need to be nice to each other. Our society today just sucks. You have so many people clawing and climbing over everyone and anyone in their way just to get one step ahead.

I remember my college days bouncing at a southside off campus bar and I never once had to hit one person because I was nice and I was respectful to everyone. And it was a pretty rough place with fights quite a few weekends both men and women.

If we just obey our God and treat people as we want to be treated, 99% of the problems today go away. The problem is that we cant even get out of our own selfish way long enough to make a difference.

 

[dales5050]

I may be way off base, but I am pretty sure that an individuals size is often factored in cases like this. It is similar to domestic violence cases where they would have to determine the Predominant aggressor. Some things taken into account in that situation...

• Offensive and defensive injuries
• The seriousness of injuries received by each party
• Threats made by a party against the other or a family member or a pet
• Whether a party acted in self-defense or in the defense of another
• The height and weight of the parties
• Which party has the potential to seriously injure the other party
• Any history of domestic violence between the parties
• Prior convictions of assault
• Orders for protection that have been filed by a party
• Whether a party has a fearful demeanor
• Whether a party has a controlling demeanor
• Witness statements

Outside of the push for this type of stuff being complete B*llshit, this is nowhere near related to domestic violence.

What this says is that regardless of who caused the issue and who started the aggression.....if the person who is defending themselves is bigger and due this causes more harm because of the size/strength differential....they are at fault.

In other words, the smaller person gets a pass simply because they are smaller. That is just wrong on so many levels.


Let me give you a hypothetical that is based on a series of stories that have been told to me by police.

Husband and Wife are on the rocks. Have kids but it's just not going to work. Both start to explore their options. Due to divorce laws, it's really bad if one person moves out. Wife sees a lawyer and the lawyer paints a picture of how to move forward.

Here are the steps:

• Husband and Wife get into a heated argument. Husband does not touch the wife but the wife still calls the police. Gets that important report.
• Wife then goes to a judge to say she does not feel safe and gets an order of protection. This forces the husband to leave the home and thus abandon those rights.
• Wife files for divorce. Because of the order, she gets custody of the kids and due to the order of protection gets the home. That's the game.

But at times, before the divorce is final, some idiots try to make things right. For the kids.

Husband moves back in and things simmer. Then one night the wife and husband go at it again and the wife takes a pan and hits the husband. Husband reacts by pushing the wife away. She goes into the wall and hits her head. Police are called.

These rules make it so the police have to arrest the man and nothing of substance happens to the woman.

Again, I don't think anyone should ever hit another person. It's not a man v. woman or adult v. child. We should have a zero tolerance for any form of assault and battery.

But instead of placing focus on this, SJW place focus on protecting a specific class. Classes mean differences. Differences can never lead to zero tolerance. So I am opposed the them fundamentally.

 

[BGIF]

Florida State Seminoles QB De'Andre Johnson dismissed by program after video shows him striking woman at bar

Good old Jimbo. He's known about the incident for almost two weeks and only when the video becomes public does he dismiss the scumbag from the team. If the video had never been released, the kid would've served a brief suspension and it would all have been swept under the rug. Jimbo is seriously the worst piece of shit in all of college football.

Yes, Jimbo suspended his underage QB a week after the altercation in a bar citing Athletic Department rule violations. When the DA's office released the video of him punching the girl in the face, Jimbo kicked him off the team.

FSU President Thrasher said it was the correct decision.

FSU president supports decision to kick De'Andre Johnson off football team in written statement | jacksonville.com

A Jacksonsonville writer, Gene Frenette, stated clearly,

Fisher had to let him go immediately, though FSU waited until 9:30 p.m. Monday to announce his dismissal. The bottom line is there’s no defending that video.

Pulling No Punches: FSU had to dismiss First Coast High QB Johnson | jacksonville.com

The FSU Pres and the writer were talking about brawling with an underage girl in a bar while speculation has it Jimbo was infuriated with his boy's inability to deck a girl when he had 60 pound advantage and threw an unobstructed haymaker that only buckled the female's knees. She grabbed the bar but would not have taken a one count. Unconfirmed reports allege Jimbo muttered something along the lines of, "How do you expect to intimidate a safety or a corner with that milquetoast display. When Jameis took a female down she stayed down until he was done. Then you compound it by running away like you had a handful of unpaid for crab legs! You have impugned both the honor of this team's Strength and Conditioning Program as well as the Team's manhood. You're done."

 

[GoIrish41]

Absolute classic! Thank you for the laugh this am.

Fact is people just need to be nice to each other. Our society today just sucks. You have so many people clawing and climbing over everyone and anyone in their way just to get one step ahead.

I remember my college days bouncing at a southside off campus bar and I never once had to hit one person because I was nice and I was respectful to everyone. And it was a pretty rough place with fights quite a few weekends both men and women.

If we just obey our God and treat people as we want to be treated, 99% of the problems today go away. The problem is that we cant even get out of our own selfish way long enough to make a difference.

Good post.

 

[Wingman Ray]

The FSU Pres and the writer were talking about brawling with an underage girl in a bar while speculation has it Jimbo was infuriated with his boy's inability to deck a girl when he had 60 pound advantage and threw an unobstructed haymaker that only buckled the female's knees. She grabbed the bar but would not have taken a one count. Unconfirmed reports allege Jimbo muttered something along the lines of, "How do you expect to intimidate a safety or a corner with that milquetoast display. When Jameis took a female down she stayed down until he was done. Then you compound it by running away like you had a handful of unpaid for crab legs! You have impugned both the honor of this team's Strength and Conditioning Program as well as the Team's manhood. You're done."

Classic!

Fact is, comparing the two in the video, she clearly had the bigger arms than he. Im sure if he had stayed around longer than the second it took for him to throw his best shot, she would have undoubtedly rebounded for the win. Would have wrapped them guns around his little chickenneck and popped his inflated head like a zit. Then proceeded to walk around the ring...er bar with his jersey around her waist like a WWF championship belt.

 

[GoIrish41]

Outside of the push for this type of stuff being complete B*llshit, this is nowhere near related to domestic violence. What this says is that regardless of who caused the issue and who started the aggression.....if the person who is defending themselves is bigger and due this causes more harm because of the size/strength differential....they are at fault.

In other words, the smaller person gets a pass simply because they are smaller. That is just wrong on so many levels.


Let me give you a hypothetical that is based on a series of stories that have been told to me by police.

Husband and Wife are on the rocks. Have kids but it's just not going to work. Both start to explore their options. Due to divorce laws, it's really bad if one person moves out. Wife sees a lawyer and the lawyer paints a picture of how to move forward.

Here are the steps:

• Husband and Wife get into a heated argument. Husband does not touch the wife but the wife still calls the police. Gets that important report.
• Wife then goes to a judge to say she does not feel safe and gets an order of protection. This forces the husband to leave the home and thus abandon those rights.
• Wife files for divorce. Because of the order, she gets custody of the kids and due to the order of protection gets the home. That's the game.

But at times, before the divorce is final, some idiots try to make things right. For the kids.

Husband moves back in and things simmer. Then one night the wife and husband go at it again and the wife takes a pan and hits the husband. Husband reacts by pushing the wife away. She goes into the wall and hits her head. Police are called.

These rules make it so the police have to arrest the man and nothing of substance happens to the woman.

Again, I don't think anyone should ever hit another person. It's not a man v. woman or adult v. child. We should have a zero tolerance for any form of assault and battery.

But instead of placing focus on this, SJW place focus on protecting a specific class. Classes mean differences. Differences can never lead to zero tolerance. So I am opposed the them fundamentally.

If this has nothing to do with domestic violence, what are we to make of your hypothetical, that is 100% about domestic violence?

Also, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the FSU QB grabbed the girl in the bar before she struck him. In other words, HE STARTED THE PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION!

 

[dales5050]

If this has nothing to do with domestic violence, what are we to make of your hypothetical, that is 100% about domestic violence?

To point out how rules or laws like that can go wrong. I think people are having two conversations here.
1) What legally happened.
2) What morally happened.

I think legally, the kid was justified in what he did.
I think morally, both are wrong and this should have never happened.

Also, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the FSU QB grabbed the girl in the bar before she struck him. In other words, HE STARTED THE PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION!

First off, I am not overlooking this. But you're also wrong in the chain of events.

She ass blocked him, then said something and then raise her arm - clenched her fist and showed aggression towards him. SHE STARTED THE PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION.

The only way one could infer that he started it is if they 1) ignore her ass block and 2) don't view a raise hand and clenched fist as assault. Legally, this person is wrong.



What should of happened is the guy just ask her if she is getting a drink and if not, could he get access to the bar to do so. This of course would also require her being a decent human being and not a piece of trash....which is debatable if she called him a [N].

What's amusing here to me is people when faced with the potential choice of violence against women and racism...they can't compute.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Seen the video a ton of times. She might have been a bitch (who knows for certain without sound), but there is just no way in my world can I justify what he did to her. It's not even fathomable. Surprised so many are trying to show how she provoked it. I've been done way dirtier than that at a bar by girls trying to cut in line, etc, and it would never even come close to occurring to me that I needed to resort to col' cock her.

You just don't do what he did. Period. I hope he gets fully prosecuted. The only thing she provoked him to do was MAYBE hold her wrists from hitting him, and telling her to fuck off. That's it.

To each his own I guess...