Five Players Arrested

[koonja]

i didn't see anyone post this, apologize if it has....but WILTFONG stated that he expects the 4 to get a heavy dose of community service and believes that they play against Texas

I think it was Koon that posted this yesterday. Loy also tweeted that all 4 players were practicing yesterday

i had saw loy's tweet but hadn't seen this...thanks bud

I want to be clear here because everyone on here is following this. Wilfong didn't say 'believes they will play', said they could play versus Texas.

 

[woolybug25]

I think it was Koon that posted this yesterday. Loy also tweeted that all 4 players were practicing yesterday

To be fair, half the site has Koon on ignore. Easy to miss...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I still don't get how the gun was found under a back seat. IIRC correctly the car was reported as a Ford Focus. Those don't have areas under the back seat without actually removing the back seat. Also, how do 5 big dudes fit in a car that small without knowing it's in the car. There isn't much, if any, extra space after they pack in.

I think it was reported as located in the back of the car. I am assuming that it was a hatch back model. The gun was listed as accessible to those in the back seat of the car. Which would be true if the car was a hatch back, and the gun was in the open rear trunk.

Also, I believe the car was borrowed.

I cant see how the university can do anything against the guys. The only one who should be faulted for the weed is the owner of the car. How do you blame passengers for something the owner has in the trunk? That is like you picking someone up, getting pulled over a mile down the road and the passenger getting arrested because you had drugs buried in the trunk. Makes zero sense.

Speculation would have to point to Max as being the owner of the gun. BK wouldnt have kicked him off just for being a passenger. My guess is he confessed to the gun which (rightfully so) made BK say it was his last straw.

If that is the case and there is a clear cut line who it is, the rest is nothing. I promise you if ND starts putting out the idea that anything other than the ideal student is unacceptable at ND, then you better start getting used to 5-6 seasons. Unfortunately, along with high ratings comes entitled and kid gloves treated young men. We live in a country where weeds is legal in areas as well as a past president that admitted to smoking it in the past.

Best thing ND can do is let Max take the fall, work the others through community service and go on. Lets face it, any other school wouldnt do a damn thing. Bama didnt even put the two through community service who were drunk with the gun when the prosecutor didnt push the case. Case was closed to them. Be holier than thou and deal with having losing records. ND wants the big bucks from the program? Then step back and welcome to 2016.

I don't think that ownership of anything has been established, or should I say, released to the public. (Gun, car.) But I bet Max didn't own anything that was animal or mineral.

Ashton White was the driver and owner of the car i thought?

I am not sure that you are more than 50% right.

 

[vmgsf]

"I think for me what makes the University of Notre Dame truly special is not anything that can be proclaimed or enshrined or glamorized. Nor is it the rich history or the sanctification of moral reputation or the gold atop the dome. It's the way that ND (at its best) strives to build and protect family by modeling values like forgiveness, responsibility and personal growth. This does not come without mistakes, sometimes even more severe ones. I hope that the University does the right thing by considering all aspects of wrongdoing in a fair manner, deliver a just consequence within reason and with compassion, and encourage a new path for those young people who made mistakes. Even those with fine blazers and ND embroidery are oft to make mistakes, both publicly and in private. The system is only a system when the sport is put above the human, and these are real people we are speaking of having to face real consequences. They aren't thugs. They're just people, and more specifically, part of the Notre Dame family."

Above post says it better than I can say it. Notre Dame will do the right thing. Football does not run this University. No panic. Find the facts. Evaluate. Decide what is best to do. No one was hurt. Was anyone endangered by the actions of these individuals?
Patience. Let the University sort this out and decide what to do.

Look at what Kelly did. Redfield gone. Butler not gone but suspended. Suggests serious issues and questions about Butler's situation.

 

[Irish#1]

The kids made some very bad decisions that will affect their football careers.Best cut them loose and move on.

Another one with no sympathy?

I've smoked (many many years ago) but haven't touched it for about 40 years. Even as one of the older posters, I don't have a problem with smoking weed if that's your thing. You just need to be smart about it. Kids lives don't need to be ruined because the lit up a doobie.


Borrowed car? Could the owner of the car also be the owner of the gun?

 

[kmoose]

Another one with no sympathy?

I've smoked (many many years ago) but haven't touched it for about 40 years. Even as one of the older posters, I don't have a problem with smoking weed if that's your thing. You just need to be smart about it. Kids lives don't need to be ruined because the lit up a doobie.

I'm not without sympathy, nor do I think the kids should be tossed out on their arses, but I do want to point out one thing:

Suspending a kid for a semester, and him losing a season, is not "ruining" anyone's life. I had a positive p!ss test when I entered the military. I lost my original "A" school and job that I signed up for. But I put my head down and worked hard. I got promoted early, received numerous awards, got out and now hold a security clearance and a job that pays me well above minimum wage.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I can't help but smh at some of the "let's not ruin their lives" stuff. If you get punished and have to face the consequences of breaking laws, breaking rules, or face the consequences of your choices, nobody is ruining your life. You ruined your own life.

 

[PANDFAN]

Notre Dame CB Devin Butler charged with resisting law enforcement, battery | Notre Dame Insider Football | ndinsider.com


TALKS ABOUT THE POLICE OFFICER with the past misconduct

Knepper's work as an officer has drawn attention in the past, with three allegations of misconduct resulting in lawsuits.

In March 2014, Knepper arrested 55-year-old Tom Stevens of South Bend and Stevens' 76-year-old mother on suspicion of resisting arrest and battery to a police officer after initially stopping Stevens for a traffic violation near his Sunnymede home. Stevens was hospitalized for three days, and he and his mother claimed they did not strike Knepper, but that he was unnecessarily rough with them. Stevens later pleaded guilty to resisting arrest and had his other charges dropped.

Knepper was suspended without pay for an August 2012 incident in which he and two other officers pressured a 7-Eleven clerk to swallow a tablespoon of cinnamon and to eat 10 crackers in less than a minute. That clerk filed suit, claiming the officers humiliated him and violated his civil rights.

Earlier this month, a jury found that Knepper and the same two other officers behaved unconstitutionally when they burst into a South Bend home without a warrant in July 2012. The officers beat, tased and falsely arrested a sleeping 17-year-old whom they had mistaken for the teen's older brother. Despite the guilty verdict, the jury awarded damages of only $1.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think it was reported as located in the back of the car. I am assuming that it was a hatch back model. The gun was listed as accessible to those in the back seat of the car. Which would be true if the car was a hatch back, and the gun was in the open rear trunk.

Also, I believe the car was borrowed.



I don't think that ownership of anything has been established, or should I say, released to the public. (Gun, car.) But I bet Max didn't own anything that was animal or mineral.



I am not sure that you are more than 50% right.

Thanks for the clarification. Sorting thru all the rumors and trying to decipher the facts isn't easy.

I can't help but smh at some of the "let's not ruin their lives" stuff. If you get punished and have to face the consequences of breaking laws, breaking rules, or face the consequences of your choices, nobody is ruining your life. You ruined your own life.

I strongly approve this message.

 

[#1rish]

Article I found on the officer from 2 years ago regarding the incident above:

Protest calls for firing of SBPD officer accused of excessive fo - Fox 28: South Bend, Elkhart IN News, Weather, Sports

 

[NDdomer2]

Great post, can't argue with anything you had to say. I just think two games is a little bit to much. Rees only got one for kicking a cop and running from them. Not trying to compare penalties even though I just did I was more so making an example


Once again awesome post, bro

I thought the part about tommy kicking the cop was exaggerated/fabricated by the officer out of spite. Tommy did TRY to run tho, LOL.

 

[NDohio]

I just basically think the term "ruined your life" is completely overused in this situation. All of these young men are just that, young. They have plenty of time to put themselves on a better path and be productive wonderful citizens. Sure they will have to serve some sort of penalty and there will definitely be some hard times for Max and maybe Butler, but ultimately these guys have the opportunity to make a great life. Saying they have ruined their lives is a bit much.

 

[dmort]

Every case in the past where an athlete was caught having smoked pot,the University Disciplinary Board kicked them out of school.The 5 players caught with dope and a gun I suspect will be off the team very soon.This is self inflicted and they had to know it was wrong not to mention a violation of ND code of conduct.This might be ok at Alabama or some other SEC school,but not ND.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Every case in the past where an athlete was caught having smoked pot,the University Disciplinary Board kicked them out of school.The 5 players caught with dope and a gun I suspect will be off the team very soon.This is self inflicted and they had to know it was wrong not to mention a violation of ND code of conduct.This might be ok at Alabama or some other SEC school,but not ND.

Not remotely true.

 

[pkt77242]

Not remotely true.

Hey now, don't let facts get in the way of dmort's uninformed internet opinion.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I agree that suspended these guys for more than 1 game is a little harsh especially since it's their first time getting in any trouble. Even playing the first game and doing 100 hours of community service seems logical to me. Everyone messes up and makes mistakes you live and you learn. Those people saying they should be kicked off the team or suspended all year need to get a life.

 

[dmort]

Maybe you should consider the case of Kyle McAlarney.

Kyle McAlarney reflects on dark days of pot charge, expulsion - NY Daily News

 

[woolybug25]

Every case in the past where an athlete was caught having smoked pot,the University Disciplinary Board kicked them out of school.The 5 players caught with dope and a gun I suspect will be off the team very soon.This is self inflicted and they had to know it was wrong not to mention a violation of ND code of conduct.This might be ok at Alabama or some other SEC school,but not ND.

This is remarkeably untrue.

 

[johnnycando]

Every case in the past where an athlete was caught having smoked pot,the University Disciplinary Board kicked them out of school.The 5 players caught with dope and a gun I suspect will be off the team very soon.This is self inflicted and they had to know it was wrong not to mention a violation of ND code of conduct.This might be ok at Alabama or some other SEC school,but not ND.

Lord Draconian, Darth Vader has asked for his light saber back with a pretty please.

 

[dmort]

I dont support the kids will be kids attitude.But the University policy seems rather clear on drug issues.

From Article 6 in Notre Dame's Student Handbook:

Possession, use or misuse of any controlled substance, including, but not limited to, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines and depressants, is a serious violation of University policy. Students who possess, use or misuse such substances shall be subject to disciplinary suspension or permanent dismissal.

 

[IrishBroker]

I dont support the kids will be kids attitude.But the University policy seems rather clear on drug issues.

From Article 6 in Notre Dame's Student Handbook:

Possession, use or misuse of any controlled substance, including, but not limited to, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines and depressants, is a serious violation of University policy. Students who possess, use or misuse such substances shall be subject to disciplinary suspension or permanent dismissal.

Yeah, that gets old. I think you need to phase that out once you go off to college.

Of course young people are knuckleheads every now and then...but riding around with guns and drugs is NOT a "kids will be kids" situation in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I can't help but smh at some of the "let's not ruin their lives" stuff. If you get punished and have to face the consequences of breaking laws, breaking rules, or face the consequences of your choices, nobody is ruining your life. You ruined your own life.

It's not so black and white.

It's possible that laws for crimes are harsh yet not enforced widely enough to garner popular support for reform. It happens all the time.

We're dealing with a substance that the federal government still categorizes as having no legitimate medical uses, and on the same schedule as heroin, despite the fact that two dozen or so states have legalized it for medical use.

The government is bad at governing, including making laws and their punishments.

No I'm not defending the idiotic decision of kids on full scholarship to be around marijuana. But let's also not ignore the fact that the stigma and legal repercussions with marijuana have not been wildly off base for decades.

 

[IrishBroker]

It's not so black and white.

It's possible that laws for crimes are harsh yet not enforced widely enough to garner popular support for reform. It happens all the time.

We're dealing with a substance that the federal government still categorizes as having no legitimate medical uses, and on the same schedule as heroin, despite the fact that two dozen or so states have legalized it for medical use.

The government is bad at governing, including making laws and their punishments.

No I'm not defending the idiotic decision of kids on full scholarship to be around marijuana. But let's also not ignore the fact that the stigma and legal repercussions with marijuana have not been wildly off base for decades.

I agree with that...

But just like with NFL players getting popped for pot. It's the decision making that is so foolish, not smoking weed.

I am 100% in favor of full legalization of marijuana. But until that day, don't be a moron and give up a chance at a great education and career for it.

And having a gun in the car with drugs? That's just total stupidity for which there is no excuse.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A distinction I was trying to make earlier was to not talk in absolutes.

Also, to not talk about anything that the speaker hadn't a clue.

Plenty of that in this thread.

Instead of giving a list of who demonstrates the trait of open-mindedness, or searching for the truth, instead of those without, I will make the following offer.

Ten million vbucks for anyone who can prove the ownership of the Ford Focus used by White, et al.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I dont support the kids will be kids attitude.But the University policy seems rather clear on drug issues.

From Article 6 in Notre Dame's Student Handbook:

Possession, use or misuse of any controlled substance, including, but not limited to, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines and depressants, is a serious violation of University policy. Students who possess, use or misuse such substances shall be subject to disciplinary suspension or permanent dismissal.

Serious question. Without any knowledge of this handbook, is this pertaining to off campus or just in campus?

 

[BGIF]

Serious question. Without any knowledge of this handbook, is this pertaining to off campus or just in campus?

As long as you're an ND student, whenever, wherever.


Standards of Conduct // du Lac: A Guide to Student Life // University of Notre Dame


du Lac
Standards Of Conduct

Unless otherwise noted, the standards of conduct, policies, procedures and regulations described within the du Lac website apply to all Notre Dame students — undergraduate, graduate, and professional, full or part-*time.

The University may investigate and/or resolve through the University Conduct Process any report of alleged misconduct that occurs from the time an individual first attends the University until the individual graduates (or otherwise completes a University program) or is permanently dismissed.

A student may not withdraw or take a leave of absence from the University after the University receives a report of an alleged violation of the University’s Standards of Conduct. The University reserves the right to proceed with the University Conduct Process regardless of a student’s request for a withdrawal or for a leave of absence from the University.

The University reserves the right to address off*-campus misconduct or violations of law. Judgments about these matters will depend on the facts of an individual case. The following factors are among those that will be considered:
whether the conduct occurred at an event sponsored by the University
whether the student involved was acting as a representative of the University
whether the conduct has a negative impact on the University community or interferes with the pursuit of Notre Dame’s mission
whether the conduct has a negative impact on the local community.
In addition to complying with the University’s standards of conduct, policies, procedures and regulations, students are expected to abide by local, state and federal law. Students may be accountable to criminal authorities and to the University for acts that violate local, state or federal laws, and they can be referred to the University Conduct Process concurrent with criminal action.

As a general rule, the University Conduct Process will proceed normally during the pendency of a criminal action. The University operates under different policies, procedures and standards, and therefore it is not necessarily bound by the findings of a court of law.

If a student is charged with a felony, the University, through the Office of Student Affairs or the Office of Community Standards, reserves the right to take summary action and temporarily dismiss the student. Similarly, the University may take summary action to temporarily or permanently dismiss any student convicted of a felony (see Emergency Actions).

 

[Legacy]

So now we are just supposed to assume that any cop who is doing his duty is an idiot akin to Enos from Duke of Hazzard? Because that is clearly the point of that article, that the cop was going out of his way to be a dick and not actually, you know, doing his due diligence as an officer of the law.

I am not saying the kid was innocent or guilty, but it sure sounds as if the "author" has made up his mind that the kids were clearly not guilty of anything and the officer was totally wrong.

And since when do we take advice on how to discipline ND football players from any SEC school?

No. Cops due their duty in arresting suspects and come up with their complaints. The article whether from a SEC blog or not just raises the question to a group of commentators, who had written off the two players soon after it happened, that we often don't know all the facts. What if.....

Outside of Butler, we are waiting to see if the facts as reviewed by the D.A. merit prosecution and meet a level of reasonable doubt. If it does not, it's on the taxpayers if it proceeds.

Accusing three people of possession of a loaded weapon? Is carrying a loaded weapon against the law in Indiana? Is there proof that all five smoked marijuana?

We just know that Butler's and probably Redfield's family will be hiring lawyers at whatever expense.

Marijuana charges against former Indiana University basketball player Devin Davis dismissed He had been dismissed from the University after the arrest for pot possession.

Indiana Basketball might have made the wrong choice in dismissing Devin Davis

 

[Irish Insanity]

Thanks BGIF for the clarification.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I agree with that...

But just like with NFL players getting popped for pot. It's the decision making that is so foolish, not smoking weed.

I am 100% in favor of full legalization of marijuana. But until that day, don't be a moron and give up a chance at a great education and career for it.

And having a gun in the car with drugs? That's just total stupidity for which there is no excuse.

I think we're on the same page.

Whoever had the gun should be toast. Whoever had the marijuana should be reprimanded but not to the degree that it's life-altering, IMO.

 

[Legacy]

The Irish make a strong late play for the title! (for the Fulmer Cup)

Guess from what college the fan who started the thread represents.