Fall Camp 2019

IrishLion

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The only thing I'll contend is the RB rotation. If Armstrong Jones are 1a/1b then I think Smith/Kyren W are 2a/2b.

It sounds like Kyren is making a move and showing enough to Kelly and staff, they are already scheming ways to use him. I haven't heard anything similar about Smith, just that he's had a good camp and seeks out contact.

Sampson is adamant that Jahmir Smith is RB3.

If he's right, and they're in a standard rotation, or one of the top two is injured, Smith becomes #2 and Williams still does his job as a slash player in 3-back sets.
 

greyhammer90

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It's pretty wild to think that we went 12-0 last year, and on offense it's probably widely accepted that were better at:

- QB
- TE
- OL
- WR


Only worse at RB.

That's pretty freaking cool.

Yep. My only worry is the middle of that defense. If the defense can just maintain, it's going to be a good season.
 

zelezo vlk

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It's pretty wild to think that we went 12-0 last year, and on offense it's probably widely accepted that were better at:

- QB
- TE
- OL
- WR


Only worse at RB.

That's pretty freaking cool.

Well that's what happens when you don't lose too much from those positions. Lost the #1 WR but everybody else remained and the young guys are ready to contribute, same for TEs, and OL.
 
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koonja

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Well that's what happens when you don't lose too much from those positions. Lost the #1 WR but everybody else remained and the young guys are ready to contribute, same for TEs, and OL.

We did, but we also have Finke back. I think Claypool will be better than 2018 Boykin.

And whether it's Young or Keys in Claypool's old spot, I think their speed and athleticism gives us something different at that spot that makes the WRs as a whole more dynamic, if that makes any sense.

I'd take 2019 WRs over 2018.
 
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koonja

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And as for the RBs, we're not better there this year. But that's fine. The one nice thing we do have is if someone gets banged up, do you really feel like there's a drop off?

I could argue Jamir Smith is the best RB. I actually think he is.

I could argue Tony Jones is the best overall RB if he's truly reshaped his fat boy body.

We could all definitely argue Armstrong is the #1 back.

And Kyren Williams can do it all as well, and runs damn hard.

So if/when someone goes down, big deal? We're the same team we were on the previous play.
 

zelezo vlk

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We did, but we also have Finke back. I think Claypool will be better than 2018 Boykin.

And whether it's Young or Keys in Claypool's old spot, I think their speed and athleticism gives us something different at that spot that makes the WRs as a whole more dynamic, if that makes any sense.

I'd take 2019 WRs over 2018.

Yup, I'm with you.

What makes Pete so confident in Jahmir? What does he bring to the table? Everybody was raving about Jafar last year due to his speed, can Jahmir bring that?
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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Yup, I'm with you.

What makes Pete so confident in Jahmir? What does he bring to the table? Everybody was raving about Jafar last year due to his speed, can Jahmir bring that?

I think so, yeah. I was hoping Armstrong would turn heads but there hasn’t been much hype surrounding him in camp.

The position will be improved in pass catching. Maybe they can really leverage that with an experienced QB who’s exceptional in the short game.
 

PANDFAN

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Yup, I'm with you.

What makes Pete so confident in Jahmir? What does he bring to the table? Everybody was raving about Jafar last year due to his speed, can Jahmir bring that?

although he hasn't been given many opportunities, the guy has run extremely hard through the hole and isn't going down on arm tackles...he also has shown he has a nice little burst too
 
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koonja

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My confidence in Jamir Smith comes from a few angles


1) Reporters have said he looks like the best true RB. That's not a unanimous belief, but even if 2 say that he's obviously impressing.

2) I love his size and how efficiently he uses it through the hole. He then runa compact and every cut is with a purpose and is efficient.

3) In the limited clips we see, he just has such a burst in short space. Even in the skeleton drills you lose the RB in the OL then they pop out the other side... But when it's Jamir I catch myself going "oh ok, that was quick ".
 

FightingIrishLover7

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It's pretty wild to think that we went 12-0 last year, and on offense it's probably widely accepted that were better at:

- QB
- TE
- OL
- WR


Only worse at RB.

That's pretty freaking cool.

With that said, I also think we're going to be better

-DL (losing Tillery hurts but depth is better, and edges are amazing)
-DB (lost Love, but everyone else seems to be doing great in camp and better depth)


LBs are going to be the "biggest drop" and I don't thinik it will be as bad as what people think. Less, sure, but with the other 7/8 positions better, will take some pressure off them at LB.

ST is a toss up. Tim and Tim said "Jay and Jon looked like Yoon and Newsome out there". If that happens, I'm going to be ecstatic.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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We did, but we also have Finke back. I think Claypool will be better than 2018 Boykin.

And whether it's Young or Keys in Claypool's old spot, I think their speed and athleticism gives us something different at that spot that makes the WRs as a whole more dynamic, if that makes any sense.

I'd take 2019 WRs over 2018.

Honestly, Claypool is better imo. The beat has already said (Sampson maybe?)... Chase may not be replacing Boykin... He may be replacing Michael Floyd.

That is sexy.

Just think of what Mike did with Tommy... Now picture a real QB...
 
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koonja

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With that said, I also think we're going to be better

-DL (losing Tillery hurts but depth is better, and edges are amazing)
-DB (lost Love, but everyone else seems to be doing great in camp and better depth)


LBs are going to be the "biggest drop" and I don't thinik it will be as bad as what people think. Less, sure, but with the other 7/8 positions better, will take some pressure off them at LB.

ST is a toss up. Tim and Tim said "Jay and Jon looked like Yoon and Newsome out there". If that happens, I'm going to be ecstatic.

I wasn't going to go there because I disagree. I think our defense will be really good, but I don't think we'll be better.

Tua and Hinish are fine - but Tillery was a play maker in the middle. Behind him we had 2 NFL LBs, and they're gone and being replaced by ~4 guys who aren't standing out from one another. We are going to notice the middle and in a bad way. ImO


Love is better than Pride. He will sorely be missed, IMO.

But DE and Safety will be better, so it's not a complete loss. DE will be better because of an extra year, but also having Kareem not spraining his ankle every week will make him a different player, IMO.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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With that said, I also think we're going to be better

-DL (losing Tillery hurts but depth is better, and edges are amazing)
-DB (lost Love, but everyone else seems to be doing great in camp and better depth)


LBs are going to be the "biggest drop" and I don't thinik it will be as bad as what people think. Less, sure, but with the other 7/8 positions better, will take some pressure off them at LB.

ST is a toss up. Tim and Tim said "Jay and Jon looked like Yoon and Newsome out there". If that happens, I'm going to be ecstatic.

I can't agree that DB is going to be better compared to the four on the field last season but I think it will be better in the nickel package than it was last season.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I wasn't going to go there because I disagree. I think our defense will be really good, but I don't think we'll be better.

Tua and Hinish are fine - but Tillery was a play maker in the middle. Behind him we had 2 NFL LBs, and they're gone and being replaced by ~4 guys who aren't standing out from one another. We are going to notice the middle and in a bad way. ImO


Love is better than Pride. He will sorely be missed, IMO.

But DE and Safety will be better, so it's not a complete loss. DE will be better because of an extra year, but also having Kareem not spraining his ankle every week will make him a different player, IMO.

I see our current LBs as future NFL players too though. I'm expecting them to grow week by week as they gain experience (Drue and Tevon got all the minutes last year). They need to gain intuition, that comes with experience. Some of that will be after mistakes/film study, sure. But I think this group will be very good at some point. (not better, but good). Idk if that's midseason, end of the season or next year.

As for DBs, Love hurts, but everyone is going to be back with more experience. Plus, the return of the Golden Mongoose. Alohi, Jalen, Vaughn have all been playing terrific. Troy is going to get a lot better too imo. It sounds like he's keeping up really well with Claypool (still giving up catches, but great coverage). Now when he faces a normal human, it will be "easy".
 
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koonja

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I see our current LBs as future NFL players too though. I'm expecting them to grow week by week as they gain experience (Drue and Tevon got all the minutes last year). They need to gain intuition, that comes with experience. Some of that will be after mistakes/film study, sure. But I think this group will be very good at some point. (not better, but good). Idk if that's midseason, end of the season or next year.

As for DBs, Love hurts, but everyone is going to be back with more experience. Plus, the return of the Golden Mongoose. Alohi, Jalen, Vaughn have all been playing terrific. Troy is going to get a lot better too imo. It sounds like he's keeping up really well with Claypool (still giving up catches, but great coverage). Now when he faces a normal human, it will be "easy".

I could see it, but I wouldn't count on that. I don't think Bilal is a NFL backer (in fact I know that), and I'm not sure Drew White is either.

If I could have 1 player back from last year it would be Tillery. His sacks aside, so often he pushed the QB to the edges for others to get pressure/sacks.

This won't be a popular opinion, but I would trade Tillery for Okwara on this team if I could. That is partially due to the great depth behind Okwara, and the fact that Tillery was a quiet monster - and obviously the NFL noticed, drafting him 1st round.
 

IRISHMAN

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Sampson is adamant that Jahmir Smith is RB3.

If he's right, and they're in a standard rotation, or one of the top two is injured, Smith becomes #2 and Williams still does his job as a slash player in 3-back sets.
I think it's only a matter of time before K. Williams moves up the depth chart.
 

zelezo vlk

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I could see it, but I wouldn't count on that. I don't think Bilal is a NFL backer (in fact I know that), and I'm not sure Drew White is either.

If I could have 1 player back from last year it would be Tillery. His sacks aside, so often he pushed the QB to the edges for others to get pressure/sacks.

This won't be a popular opinion, but I would trade Tillery for Okwara on this team if I could. That is partially due to the great depth behind Okwara, and the fact that Tillery was a quiet monster - and obviously the NFL noticed, drafting him 1st round.

I agree. The dropoff from Tillery to MTA/Jay Ade is much larger than from Okwara to Daelin et al. These are all good players, but give me the pass rushing monster in the interior over an elite edge all day.
 

GowerND11

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Honestly, Claypool is better imo. The beat has already said (Sampson maybe?)... Chase may not be replacing Boykin... He may be replacing Michael Floyd.

That is sexy.

Just think of what Mike did with Tommy... Now picture a real QB...

I think what gets lost in all this about Claypool and Boykin is that Claypool still had 50 receptions last year. This isn't just some ho hum player that is looking to blow up his final year. He had a very good season, it's just overshadowed some by Boykin.
 

Luckylucci

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I think when discussing the D being better or worse it's difficult for me to generalize it by saying we lose Tillery so the interior DL will be worse. Or we lose Love so CB will be worse. Or we lose Tranquill and Coney so LB will be worse.

For example, Hinish was playing equal snaps to Bonner last year for a reason. He should only improve this season. Is it fair to think that NT could be better while 3T is worse? If our DE's are better both against the run and pass, how much are we really losing?

Similarly, I realize ILB won't be as good but having a true playmaker at Rover, with Wu, is a significant upgrade. So I don't think it's fair to automatically say "LB won't be as good" when you are dramatically improving one of 3 positions. (Not sure we realize how impactful the Rover position is supposed to be because we haven't had much continuity at the position).

Also, what about the Nickel/Dime packages with Hamilton playing S, Alohi taking the spot of a LB, Wu staying on the field, and Crawford being an X-Factor. Why can't those packages be even better? In fact, in the Nickel/Dime package we are essentially replacing Tranquill, Coney, Love, Tillery and Griffith/Coleman for Hamilton, Wu, Crawford, Hayes, Ade/Ademilola/?. For what that package is used for, I think that can be just as effective (at creating havoc plays) if not better when you figure the pass rush should also be better.

Ultimately, I think the D will look different but that doesn't necessarily mean worse. I bet there will be some statistics that aren't as good. Scoring could be up a bit. Rushing statistics, sure. But havoc rate, sacks, TFL's, INT's, etc. I don't think it's far fetched to think some of those could be better.
 

Luckylucci

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On a different note. I woke up this morning intending to post something along the lines of what Lion did. Solid idea to summarize the post Fall Camp feelings/assumptions as we start UL prep.

So, instead, I'll just say that my biggest takeaway or overriding theme is that the roster has a lot of playmakers/depth on both sides of the ball. As we lose guys to graduation or injury we truly seem to have guys step up and take on the spotlight. And as I illustrated above, I'm not sure it has to be at the same spot. We seem to have a lot of dudes that are in position to do so, not only this year, but for the next couple.
 

IrishFanJMercy

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The biggest thing I can't wait to see is how many different guys average catches in a game, I could see ND having 10+ guys catch passes a game. Yeah Claypool will be a go to guy, but we have 3 running backs all capable of catching the ball Jafar and Tony Jones have shown they are good at catching the ball, Jahir Smith showed signs in the spring game as well. WR we have a lot of guys hungry and ready to show out.
 

Irish#1

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On a different note. I woke up this morning intending to post something along the lines of what Lion did. Solid idea to summarize the post Fall Camp feelings/assumptions as we start UL prep.

So, instead, I'll just say that my biggest takeaway or overriding theme is that the roster has a lot of playmakers/depth on both sides of the ball. As we lose guys to graduation or injury we truly seem to have guys step up and take on the spotlight. And as I illustrated above, I'm not sure it has to be at the same spot. We seem to have a lot of dudes that are in position to do so, not only this year, but for the next couple.

When did you join the team? lol Just joking.


I think when discussing the D being better or worse it's difficult for me to generalize it by saying we lose Tillery so the interior DL will be worse. Or we lose Love so CB will be worse. Or we lose Tranquill and Coney so LB will be worse.

For example, Hinish was playing equal snaps to Bonner last year for a reason. He should only improve this season. Is it fair to think that NT could be better while 3T is worse? If our DE's are better both against the run and pass, how much are we really losing?

Similarly, I realize ILB won't be as good but having a true playmaker at Rover, with Wu, is a significant upgrade. So I don't think it's fair to automatically say "LB won't be as good" when you are dramatically improving one of 3 positions. (Not sure we realize how impactful the Rover position is supposed to be because we haven't had much continuity at the position).

Also, what about the Nickel/Dime packages with Hamilton playing S, Alohi taking the spot of a LB, Wu staying on the field, and Crawford being an X-Factor. Why can't those packages be even better? In fact, in the Nickel/Dime package we are essentially replacing Tranquill, Coney, Love, Tillery and Griffith/Coleman for Hamilton, Wu, Crawford, Hayes, Ade/Ademilola/?. For what that package is used for, I think that can be just as effective (at creating havoc plays) if not better when you figure the pass rush should also be better.

Ultimately, I think the D will look different but that doesn't necessarily mean worse. I bet there will be some statistics that aren't as good. Scoring could be up a bit. Rushing statistics, sure. But havoc rate, sacks, TFL's, INT's, etc. I don't think it's far fetched to think some of those could be better.


I read an article in the Athletic that mentioned the rush defense is going to be better than expected. One reason was Hinish who was actually getting more playing time over Bonner as the season went on. I think he had around 325 snaps compared to Bonners 365. The other reason was because of the ends. Martin said everyone is talking about the ends rush ability, but he said they do quite well against the run and should be better this year.
 
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koonja

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Per ISD, probably nothing to worry about, but sounds like Kareem hurt his ankle earlier this week, and Ade came out in tempo drills with 1st team today. Kareem practiced but was held out of that.

Oh joy.
 

IrishLion

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Per ISD, probably nothing to worry about, but sounds like Kareem hurt his ankle earlier this week, and Ade came out in tempo drills with 1st team today. Kareem practiced but was held out of that.

Oh joy.

Fun Fact:

Kareem's ankle has been sprained since he was born. It is just in a constant state of being sprained.

He'll be fine.
 

stlnd01

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Fun Fact:

Kareem's ankle has been sprained since he was born. It is just in a constant state of being sprained.

He'll be fine.

Seriously. I think the guy was helped off the field every single game last year. It worked out.
 

ulukinatme

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Kareem considers is unsporting to play at full health. He has to at least give opposing OTs a chance.

Fo' real, makes you begin to wonder. The dude is tough as nails though. Quit giving the other team advantages!

giphy.gif
 

Irish#1

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Fun but little known fact. Kareem is Hamilton’s big brother.
 

ResLife Hero

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