Everything Soccer

[Rogue219]

Dest officially signs with Barca. Him and De La Fuente on their roster.

#ItsHappening

https://twitter.com/i/status/1312008661447761921

Looks like some player.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Gio has three assists today and game isn’t even over.

 

[NorthDakota]

City dropped points again, hell yea Leeds

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Number one target all summer is Sancho... and we are paying 20 million for Edison Cavani.

Don't get me wrong, Cavani is good. But United knew what what they needed to pay to get Sancho and here we are, not paying it and wondering why.

 

[notredomer23]

Alright Liverpool fans, come take your whoopin

 

[NorthDakota]

LMAO. I didnt know they were even playing today. My goodness. Glad I did not watch. How does one concede 7 goals? That's wild. 7 of them!

 

[Old Man Mike]

Perfect Storm.
a. Henderson, Mane, and Allison out --- couldn't pick three worse choices to rip the fire out of the team;
b. replacement keeper super-dumbs a pass for the first goal;
c. three more goals off of wicked deflections.

That said: AV looked really great. And deserved to win, maybe even by more.

AND: my constant several season gripe still holds --- TAA must be on the pitch, but he pretty much stinks as a defender --- he wasn't even in the play on several of the goals in the development steps. Not only was Gomez forced to pick up the wide man (and Gomez isn't great at that), but VAN DYCK was often the first contestant of an attack down the opposite side from which he lines up (i.e. BOTH TAA and Gomez were beaten far up the pitch.) NO effective running back to fill in occurred from Keitha, and little from Wynaldum and Fabinho, who were really slow.

Because of the backline mediocrity of TAA and Gomez, Liverpool MUST have the midfield werewolf press to scare the he!l out of teams to make them more cautious. Without Henderson and Mane, it was not only no-go in midfield, but ho-hum and ZZZZ.

 

[Rogue219]

Good morning.

As of today, only Everton and Villa supporters can talk shit. That's about as 2020 as it gets.

Undoubtedly some phsychological damage done there to Liverpool. Based on what we've seen in the last three years, is should be an anamoly. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Rogue219]

Perfect Storm.
a. Henderson, Mane, and Allison out --- couldn't pick three worse choices to rip the fire out of the team;
b. replacement keeper super-dumbs a pass for the first goal;
c. three more goals off of wicked deflections.

That said: AV looked really great. And deserved to win, maybe even by more.

AND: my constant several season gripe still holds --- TAA must be on the pitch, but he pretty much stinks as a defender --- he wasn't even in the play on several of the goals in the development steps. Not only was Gomez forced to pick up the wide man (and Gomez isn't great at that), but VAN DYCK was often the first contestant of an attack down the opposite side from which he lines up (i.e. BOTH TAA and Gomez were beaten far up the pitch.) NO effective running back to fill in occurred from Keitha, and little from Wynaldum and Fabinho, who were really slow.

Because of the backline mediocrity of TAA and Gomez, Liverpool MUST have the midfield werewolf press to scare the he!l out of teams to make them more cautious. Without Henderson and Mane, it was not only no-go in midfield, but ho-hum and ZZZZ.

Ross Barkley cut through the midfield like piss through snow. I am not putting that on the fullbacks.

Gomez was horrible and Virgil wasn't very good either.

Disaster of a performance. With Covid, no crowds, be ready for more weirdness. Leicester 5-2 vs City, Spurs 6-1 over Spurs and Villa 7-2 over Liverpool. Does any of it happen 12 months ago? I doubt it.

United doesn't get beat like that with a full Old Trafford.

Reminded me of watching Michigan lose to Appalachian State only to see GT blow ND's doors off in 2007.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

That was appalling. In every aspect. I have been calling for TAA to get moved to midfield for a few years. He is a terrible defender. He is protected at his current position usually by Liverpool's ability to press high and turn the ball over in their opponents half. When Liverpool turn over the ball they are wide open behind the backs. Villa took advantage of that. Also the central defense was gutted multiple time. Fucking gross.

Keita was non-existent.
Fabino and Gini could not control midfield.
Gomez was put in bad positions but also didnt help himself either.
TAA is the James Harden of RBs

Adrian has now had 5 errors leading directly to goals in 21 games. Allison has had that many in 92.

 

[notredomer23]

I don't even mean this in a snarky manner, but at what point does Liverpool upgrade RB from TAA? He's a defensive liability, and putting Gomez on the same side as him provides absolutely zero defensive cover.

That is not to say TAA doesn't have a spot on Liverpool because he's immensely talented, but if you are trying to beat Liverpool the formula is pretty simple: Go at him.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I don't even mean this in a snarky manner, but at what point does Liverpool upgrade RB from TAA? He's a defensive liability, and putting Gomez on the same side as him provides absolutely zero defensive cover.

That is not to say TAA doesn't have a spot on Liverpool because he's immensely talented, but if you are trying to beat Liverpool the formula is pretty simple: Go at him.

IMO TAA is to good offensively to take off the field. There just arent any RBs who can provide the service he does. The other option is to protect the space he vacates and how best to do that. Liverpool have had great success the last two years in doing so, mainly by their pressing and having the deep midfielder take up the central spot making a back 3. That didnt happen yesterday. When that isnt working, well... this is what happens. Athletico did the same thing to them.

 

[Rogue219]

IMO TAA is to good offensively to take off the field. There just arent any RBs who can provide the service he does. The other option is to protect the space he vacates and how best to do that. Liverpool have had great success the last two years in doing so, mainly by their pressing and having the deep midfielder take up the central spot making a back 3. That didnt happen yesterday. When that isnt working, well... this is what happens. Athletico did the same thing to them.

Who is a better right back right now, in Europe or anywhere else?

He's 21 years old and leads the attack. They've been running this high line for the better part of three years. They got shredded yesterday. If it keeps happening, there is something to worry about.

Everyone at Melwood is taking a breath right now. They're not going to panic buy anyone and they are not going to "upggrade" at right back because as of this moment there probaby isn't one and if there is that person likely is not available. Let's not forget that six days prior they were in incredible form vs Arsenal. Ran them off the park in every way possible.

From the outset yesterday they looked like they knew they were playing without Allison, Mane and Henderson. That is what concerns me. From the jump it looked bad and stayed bad. I was actually laughing at the end because of how absurd it was. 7 goals? It better be a fluke. If it isn't, it'll be quite a collapse. To come out like that, for whatever reason, wasn't good.

The title honeymoon is over. If they needed a swift kick in the ass, this was it.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Who is a better right back right now, in Europe or anywhere else?

He's 21 years old and leads the attack. They've been running this high line for the better part of three years. They got shredded yesterday. If it keeps happening, there is something to worry about.

Everyone at Melwood is taking a breath right now. They're not going to panic buy anyone and they are not going to "upggrade" at right back because as of this moment there probaby isn't one and if there is that person likely is not available. Let's not forget that six days prior they were in incredible form vs Arsenal. Ran them off the park in every way possible.

From the outset yesterday they looked like they knew they were playing without Allison, Mane and Henderson. That is what concerns me. From the jump it looked bad and stayed bad. I was actually laughing at the end because of how absurd it was. 7 goals? It better be a fluke. If it isn't, it'll be quite a collapse. To come out like that, for whatever reason, wasn't good.

The title honeymoon is over. If they needed a swift kick in the ass, this was it.

Well that depends on the role. If you want offensive output and assists, there isnt a better RB in the world. If you need a marauder, then he is terrible.

 

[notredomer23]

Who is a better right back right now, in Europe or anywhere else?

He's 21 years old and leads the attack. They've been running this high line for the better part of three years. They got shredded yesterday. If it keeps happening, there is something to worry about.

Everyone at Melwood is taking a breath right now. They're not going to panic buy anyone and they are not going to "upggrade" at right back because as of this moment there probaby isn't one and if there is that person likely is not available. Let's not forget that six days prior they were in incredible form vs Arsenal. Ran them off the park in every way possible.

From the outset yesterday they looked like they knew they were playing without Allison, Mane and Henderson. That is what concerns me. From the jump it looked bad and stayed bad. I was actually laughing at the end because of how absurd it was. 7 goals? It better be a fluke. If it isn't, it'll be quite a collapse. To come out like that, for whatever reason, wasn't good.

The title honeymoon is over. If they needed a swift kick in the ass, this was it.

There are tons of better pure defenders at RB than TAA. That doesn't mean that they are more talented than him especially offensively. Obviously he brings things at RB offensively that very few others in the world can. It's up to Klopp then to tactically position 'Pool better because right now that is the formula to have a chance at beating them.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'll start by saying that if I was in the same room with Jurgen Klopp I wouldn't dare to say anything about changing his view of Liverpool football --- I'd sit quietly in the corner and be humbly delighted that I could listen to the great coach.

But, as the Great Coach isn't here, I'll meekly say something anyway.

TAA creates to my eye a really tough problem. As we have said here, he is perhaps THE best RB in the world in terms of offensive threat. I'm not sure that's very debatable anymore. But he's also not very good on defense, and this is exacerbated by his need to get so far upfield that he is stressed to recover. What are Klopp's options?

A. Tough it out and hope that the young man gets Andy Robertson better at balancing his O-D responsibilities?
B. Get another VVD level centerback to better cover for him? Plus get Fabinho thinking more about D than O and help that out?
C. Shift the Earth and try to imitate the old Italy three-back (Chiellini and his suoerthugs) or the golden generation Belgian back three of Kompany, Vertongan, and the guy I can't spell? Then TAA could run "free".

I'm betting on Status Quo: option "A". I'd have liked to have seen that plus option "B".

 

[Rogue219]

There are tons of better pure defenders at RB than TAA. That doesn't mean that they are more talented than him especially offensively. Obviously he brings things at RB offensively that very few others in the world can. It's up to Klopp then to tactically position 'Pool better because right now that is the formula to have a chance at beating them.

Which he has done, quite well, for the last 2 1/2 years. Trent isn't being asked to be a defending fullback like the 1970s. The attack starts with the fullbacks. Robbo is a better defender than Trent right now. Trent is 21 years old.

I don't think yesterday is going to erase everything that came prior to it, starting with the beating they took against Tottenham that started their run that essentially ended at Watford last year.

How they respond is going to be everything and will define their season, especially knowing Allison is now out for six weeks.

 

[Rogue219]

Well that depends on the role. If you want offensive output and assists, there isnt a better RB in the world. If you need a marauder, then he is terrible.

We know his role.

 

[notredomer23]

I'll start by saying that if I was in the same room with Jurgen Klopp I wouldn't dare to say anything about changing his view of Liverpool football --- I'd sit quietly in the corner and be humbly delighted that I could listen to the great coach.

But, as the Great Coach isn't here, I'll meekly say something anyway.

TAA creates to my eye a really tough problem. As we have said here, he is perhaps THE best RB in the world in terms of offensive threat. I'm not sure that's very debatable anymore. But he's also not very good on defense, and this is exacerbated by his need to get so far upfield that he is stressed to recover. What are Klopp's options?

A. Tough it out and hope that the young man gets Andy Robertson better at balancing his O-D responsibilities?
B. Get another VVD level centerback to better cover for him? Plus get Fabinho thinking more about D than O and help that out?
C. Shift the Earth and try to imitate the old Italy three-back (Chiellini and his suoerthugs) or the golden generation Belgian back three of Kompany, Vertongan, and the guy I can't spell? Then TAA could run "free".

I'm betting on Status Quo: option "A". I'd have liked to have seen that plus option "B".

Mike, being an ND message board, this could be the early 1900s and I would be criticizing Rockne and Harper for doing the forward pass; it's not supposed to always be rational lol.

Back to this discussion at hand, you make good points. I think most likely Option A is what happens and he at least becomes a Premier League level defender to go with his elite offensive skills.

Option C is where I think TAA would thrive the most, but Liverpool is obviously not tactically suited for that nor does it really make sense to divert from the 4-3-3 these days.

 

[Rogue219]

2018/19 they kept 21 clean sheets I believe. Last year they played a higher line and the clean sheets were not as many.

They're not about the blow up the entire system or start moving Trent around or go to the transfer market to replace him. The most likely scenario is that yesterday was a total fluke but requires immediate attention. Unfortunately, they're having an international break in the middle of this pandemic and won't be together for 10 days.

At Everton in a few weeks. It all comes down to how they respond.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I don't think Liverpool is in any place to change anything. It was a bad game, but that still doesn't mean they are a bad team. They are top 2 in the premier league and this season has been turned upside down. Everton and Villa are undefeated and on top of the league.

However, as I haven't watched 'pool a ton, could they play a three back with TAA as the winger? It'd probably have to be a 3322. I'm not sure who would be the third CB, but at least that would give him a bit more freedom going forward.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Liverpool is still VERY tough to bet against regardless of that whoopin'. There was a horrible goalie error by a guy not named Alisson, and three wickedly unstoppable deflections. For BSing sake, without that the score is 3-2 ... not a season-ending calamity. That plus lacking Henderson and Mane, ... well, the sky ain't falling yet. That plus the Great Coach making a few midfield adjustments (mentally), and maybe it will even turn out to be to the good --- knocking the "hey-we're-the-runaway-champs" frosting off the squad.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I don't think Liverpool is in any place to change anything. It was a bad game, but that still doesn't mean they are a bad team. They are top 2 in the premier league and this season has been turned upside down. Everton and Villa are undefeated and on top of the league.

However, as I haven't watched 'pool a ton, could they play a three back with TAA as the winger? It'd probably have to be a 3322. I'm not sure who would be the third CB, but at least that would give him a bit more freedom going forward.

They already essentially do. When going forward, TAA and AR push up as high as the forwards and overlap Mane and Salah regularly. The #6 (can be any of the three in midfield) is also high but is responsible for getting back and covering the middle of the filed while the 2 CBs spread out to cover the wider areas behind TAA and AR. This is essentially set up so that the #6 plays the central CB position with VVD on one side and Gomez on the other. They do this when they play out of the back as well. They do this until the defense is caught back up and they can resort to the back four setup. THey also will have AR sit back forming a back three as well.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

They already essentially do. When going forward, TAA and AR push up as high as the forwards and overlap Mane and Salah regularly. The #6 (can be any of the three in midfield) is also high but is responsible for getting back and covering the middle of the filed while the 2 CBs spread out to cover the wider areas behind TAA and AR. This is essentially set up so that the #6 plays the central CB position with VVD on one side and Gomez on the other. They do this when they play out of the back as well. They do this until the defense is caught back up and they can resort to the back four setup. THey also will have AR sit back forming a back three as well.

Thanks for the run down. TAA is the best offensive fullback in the world. I'm interested to see how Southgate handles England going forward. The youth is super talented, but very offensively heavy without a whole lot of stars along the back line.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXiJc9QyUoc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Highlights from Bayern's recent 4-3 victory over Berlin. Lewandowski scored all four. Alaba and Boateng have been hot garbage since the restart. Can't be giving up this many goals.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I guess I should clarify that they essentially play a back three when on offense or playing out of the back, they achieve it in different ways depending on who is in the game or tactically whats going on with the other team. I think they still tried to do this with AV but it broke down and was exposed. Bad day at the office really.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Assists per 90. TAA and AR blow all other PL backs away.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yWQ1C6M6L2s" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This video does a great job showing how much defensive pressure the front 5/6 put on the opposing team higher up the field and why having TAA allowed to get up as an offensive threat is usually well protected.

 

[NorthDakota]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXiJc9QyUoc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Highlights from Bayern's recent 4-3 victory over Berlin. Lewandowski scored all four. Alaba and Boateng have been hot garbage since the restart. Can't be giving up this many goals.

Boateng is a little long in the tooth. I wonder if they are lacking a bit of focus since winning UCL. Hopefully they get their head back right.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I think Liverpool are ahead of the curve on the offensive side. Man United just signed Telles of Porto, who had 13g 10a last season from left back.

Not sure if they can let him go forward and rotated Maguire to cover him and Lindelof/Bailly in the center and AWB stay back to hit the three.