Everything Soccer

[Old Man Mike]

Since there's dissent here on the red, I'll say that I completely disagree with the red. Two guys were going "honestly" for the ball. Collision occurred. Ref saw it as NO foul at all. Balogun goes down battling and twisting trying to keep ball alive. Opponent gets so out of body control that his legs are all over the place. Balogun does NOT turn head to check him out, but tries to get a leg under himself. Opponent's leg ends up under Balogun's foot COMPLETELY unpredictably (especially the placement of the ankle, which is stepped on absolutely last split second.) Balogun is not particularly studs-up at this time (he's too tumbling to do that.) Body parts collide. Opponent has bottom unfortunate position. Both roll away. Ref also rolls away.

If there is such a "tradition" for giving utterly accidental contact "yellow", I'll grudgingly go with that. Otherwise this was an unfortunate accident and a no-call. I see this as similar to the (real) football play where the linebacker goes in for a form tackle and the opponent loses balance and goes unpredictably low right into the LBs force with his head. THAT's not a targeting ejection either.

 

[MPClinton22]

Since there's dissent here on the red, I'll say that I completely disagree with the red. Two guys were going "honestly" for the ball. Collision occurred. Ref saw it as NO foul at all. Balogun goes down battling and twisting trying to keep ball alive. Opponent gets so out of body control that his legs are all over the place. Balogun does NOT turn head to check him out, but tries to get a leg under himself. Opponent's leg ends up under Balogun's foot COMPLETELY unpredictably (especially the placement of the ankle, which is stepped on absolutely last split second.) Balogun is not particularly studs-up at this time (he's too tumbling to do that.) Body parts collide. Opponent has bottom unfortunate position. Both roll away. Ref also rolls away.

If there is such a "tradition" for giving utterly accidental contact "yellow", I'll grudgingly go with that. Otherwise this was an unfortunate accident and a no-call. I see this as similar to the (real) football play where the linebacker goes in for a form tackle and the opponent loses balance and goes unpredictably low right into the LBs force with his head. THAT's not a targeting ejection either.

This is exactly how I feel about it. Letter of the law, it met the criteria for a serious potential to injure red card. But nuance is important, and knowing the repercussions of a red in this situation, combined with the clear accidental nature of the contact HAS to be part of the decision making process.

I think generally the penalty for a red is over the top. There needs to be levels to it, similar to flagrant 1s and 2s in basketball. And if that adjustment isn't made, more discretion needs to be used because the penalty for a red is so insanely harsh, especially in a once every 4 year knockout tournament.

 

[ACamp1900]

I can't be the only one that agreed with the red, right? Maybe harsh, but it's pretty obviously a bad foul. I would have given Messi's foul a red as well. I think it would be hard to argue either foul were NOT serious foul play endangering the safety of an opponent. Intent really isn't a factor. You can't do certain things and stomping a players ankle is one of them.

If that’s a red then everyone should start training their players to stick their legs under any opposing player who is just coming down naturally to land after jumping in hopes of getting them red carded. Flo’s only crime was the shame of trying to put his feet back on the ground after the defender initiated contact. Having been a long time usmnt fan I can think of many times over the years a Mexican player went purposely spikes high into one of our boys without even getting a yellow… yet just landing in the wrong spot without even having the area in your line of sight is now a red??? F all that

 

[KMac151993]

F it - just go beat the piss out of the Belgians.

 

[Firevangorder]

Since there's dissent here on the red, I'll say that I completely disagree with the red. Two guys were going "honestly" for the ball. Collision occurred. Ref saw it as NO foul at all. Balogun goes down battling and twisting trying to keep ball alive. Opponent gets so out of body control that his legs are all over the place. Balogun does NOT turn head to check him out, but tries to get a leg under himself. Opponent's leg ends up under Balogun's foot COMPLETELY unpredictably (especially the placement of the ankle, which is stepped on absolutely last split second.) Balogun is not particularly studs-up at this time (he's too tumbling to do that.) Body parts collide. Opponent has bottom unfortunate position. Both roll away. Ref also rolls away.

If there is such a "tradition" for giving utterly accidental contact "yellow", I'll grudgingly go with that. Otherwise this was an unfortunate accident and a no-call. I see this as similar to the (real) football play where the linebacker goes in for a form tackle and the opponent loses balance and goes unpredictably low right into the LBs force with his head. THAT's not a targeting ejection either.

This is exactly why players dive at any contact from the side/behind. Even if the other player initiates contact, if you get tangled and step on them you’re the one who’s screwed

This is the same sport where you can be in midair and get undercut, and the foul is on you somehow. Some of the rules of soccer are at odds with how physics work in this universe.

 

[stlnd01]

This is exactly how I feel about it. Letter of the law, it met the criteria for a serious potential to injure red card. But nuance is important, and knowing the repercussions of a red in this situation, combined with the clear accidental nature of the contact HAS to be part of the decision making process.

I think generally the penalty for a red is over the top. There needs to be levels to it, similar to flagrant 1s and 2s in basketball. And if that adjustment isn't made, more discretion needs to be used because the penalty for a red is so insanely harsh, especially in a once every 4 year knockout tournament.

Can it be appealed down to a yellow? It was clearly not intentional. They were both just going for the ball.

And, yes, being kicked out of one-and-one-third knockout-round games for that is way over the top. Especially when you consider that the next game is arguably the biggest game in the modern history of US soccer (should they win, anyway).

I do wonder if FIFA will consider the implications of suspending the US' probably second-best player in a tournament being hosted by the US, which might be the market in all the world with the most upside for soccer. A deep US run would be good for business.

 

[NDRock]

Fuck instant replay

 

[calvegas04]

Soccer offsides needs to be fixed

 

[Dale]

Add a red line for fucks sake

If you let a guy behind you in the box, that is on you as a defender

 

[Tejas]

I couldn't tell it hit that one Croatian player

 

[luckofirish8]

If there is no chip in the ball, I don't think they call that back. Because the ball registers the faintest of touch, it is offsides. The offside portion wasn't even "close" since the ball was touched. He's onside with the initial kick.

 

[luckofirish8]

I couldn't tell it hit that one Croatian player

I don't think anyone truly can (even in slow motion) and that is why I say if the ball wasn't chipped it would have stood.

 

[IrishInOntario]

What a game. Tons of drama. You have to feel for Croatia. 3 goals called offside... That's sooooo tough.

It's been a pleasure to watch Modric!

 

[Bane]

Ok, so I'm listening to Tom Rennie and Charlie Stillitano on the Football Show on sirius 157. I usually agree with their level headed takes and they are both stating the red was given appropriately. They are currently explaining why it was justified. Rennie called it a textbook serious foul play deserving a send off.

I think debating if it "deserved" to be a red card sort of bogs down the broader point that the red card system is insanely stupid. Since their continental hatewatch failed, Europeans have spent the last 24 hours smugly informing us ignorant Americans how it was a "clear" red card and likening it to flagrant fouls in basketball and targeting in football. But those are apples to oranges to me.

For one, the Euros have spent a day informing us that intent doesn't matter in soccer for a red card, but intent is baked into both a flagrant foul and targeting. Part of the check for both is a series of actions and movements by the offending player that leads the ref to infer that the intent to harm existed. I think intent should absolutely be part of a red card, I'm not arguing that it does now, but that it should.

Second, the consequences of a red card vs. a flagrant in basketball or targeting in football is very lopsided. Even if a player gets ejected in either case, the teams don't have to run a man down the whole rest of the game, and have their player suspended for the whole next game. In the NFL targeting is a 15 yard penalty, maybe a fine. In CFB it's an ejection (and if it happened in the second half) a suspension for the first half of the next game. In basketball, you may get an ejection and a suspension. In soccer, you get an ejection, a suspension, and your team goes on a permanent penalty kill. That is absurd, ESPECIALLY if intent truly doesn't matter.

I think the severity of the consequence of a red card incentives the flopping in the sport. I see now why players flop to the ground like they had just been shot, the potential reward is massive and the risk is nothing. At the very least, soccer should introduce a yellow card for embellishment similar to hockey.

I imagine there are a lot that agree with this, but hate a defensive battle when it comes to football. lol

I agree with the take and I also like defensive battles in football. But, I would totally understand someone who liked low scoring in soccer but didn't like a defensive battle in football. Soccer is a free flowing, continuous action game, there is a lot of build up and suspense that can go into a 0-0 game that just is not inherently the case in football.

But either way, I think scoring should always be at a premium in any sport I watching. It's part of why I stopped watching basketball consistently about 10 years ago. I will say, this NBA Finals was nice from that perspective, scoring was hard the entire series. As it should be.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I think debating if it "deserved" to be a red card sort of bogs down the broader point that the red card system is insanely stupid. Since their continental hatewatch failed, Europeans have spent the last 24 hours smugly informing us ignorant Americans how it was a "clear" red card and likening it to flagrant fouls in basketball and targeting in football. But those are apples to oranges to me.

For one, the Euros have spent a day informing us that intent doesn't matter in soccer for a red card, but intent is baked into both a flagrant foul and targeting. Part of the check for both is a series of actions and movements by the offending player that leads the ref to infer that the intent to harm existed. I think intent should absolutely be part of a red card, I'm not arguing that it does now, but that it should.

Second, the consequences of a red card vs. a flagrant in basketball or targeting in football is very lopsided. Even if a player gets ejected in either case, the teams don't have to run a man down the whole rest of the game, and have their player suspended for the whole next game. In the NFL targeting is a 15 yard penalty, maybe a fine. In CFB it's an ejection (and if it happened in the second half) a suspension for the first half of the next game. In basketball, you may get an ejection and a suspension. In soccer, you get an ejection, a suspension, and your team goes on a permanent penalty kill. That is absurd, ESPECIALLY if intent truly doesn't matter.

I think the severity of the consequence of a red card incentives the flopping in the sport. I see now why players flop to the ground like they had just been shot, the potential reward is massive and the risk is nothing. At the very least, soccer should introduce a yellow card for embellishment similar to hockey.

I agree with the take and I also like defensive battles in football. But, I would totally understand someone who liked low scoring in soccer but didn't like a defensive battle in football. Soccer is a free flowing, continuous action game, there is a lot of build up and suspense that can go into a 0-0 game that just is not inherently the case in football.

But either way, I think scoring should always be at a premium in any sport I watching. It's part of why I stopped watching basketball consistently about 10 years ago. I will say, this NBA Finals was nice from that perspective, scoring was hard the entire series. As it should be.

Agree 100% with your points. They have implemented yellow cards for embellishment. They've handed out a few in the tournament. Usually they are reserved for flops in the box trying to draw penalties.

 

[PolishDomer]

Soccer offsides needs to be fixed

Please see post #17,762 in this thread

 

[luckofirish8]

Please see post #17,762 in this thread

I think this is the best way forward. It doesn't completely take the strategy of an offside trap off the table, but you as the defense better be completely sure. Likely equals less VAR interruptions, but it is a lot clearer to see with the naked eye versus trying to determine if someones left big toe is holding/causing someone being onside/offside.

 

[NDRock]

If there is no chip in the ball, I don't think they call that back. Because the ball registers the faintest of touch, it is offsides. The offside portion wasn't even "close" since the ball was touched. He's onside with the initial kick.

I just don't believe that a sport that can't tell you how much time is left in a game, can successfully put a chip in the ball and have it work 100% of the time. Absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, the above opinion is 100% influenced by my hatred of Portugal.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

What's wrong with having a clock that counts down instead of up?
Then for the extra stoppage time, maybe stop the clock when there are fake injuries and such.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Don’t know much about soccer but love the passion fans show for the game. Seems like it’s been a great celebration by all involved in the World Cup. Can’t imagine the expense to travel to US from across the world but looks like the fans all got their money’s worth.

 

[calvegas04]

Don’t know much about soccer but love the passion fans show for the game. Seems like it’s been a great celebration by all involved in the World Cup. Can’t imagine the expense to travel to US from across the world but looks like the fans all got their money’s worth.

Good thing we have college ball starting up soon after. There is always a sadness after major events like this end

 

[NDRock]

Don’t know much about soccer but love the passion fans show for the game. Seems like it’s been a great celebration by all involved in the World Cup. Can’t imagine the expense to travel to US from across the world but looks like the fans all got their money’s worth.

That’s awesome. I went to the Haiti versus Morocco game. It was unbelievable. After the game, thousands of Haitians and Moroccans just dancing together. Just another reminder that such a small percentage of the world, completely screws things up. Unfortunately it’s the people who are running these countries.

 

[Irishdawg]

One game it is…

 

[calvegas04]

Yay another shitty shoot out

 

[calvegas04]

Nice job pulling your starting goalie kangaroos

 

[Dale]

2 CBs and a backup goalie for Australia. Sick strategy.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

An 18 year old.... Wow,

 

[greyhammer90]

Confirmed NOT g'day mate.

 

[thekid33]

Some strategy from the Aussie's there 😂

Would have been cool to have 2 US group opponents advance.

 

[thekid33]

Greg Popovich > Tony Popovich, confirmed