Everything Soccer

[Emcee77]

I believe it goes beyond that. IMO what separates the Europeans from the US is that they get the technical side down at an early age AND THEN they learn to be creative by playing a LOT more games than US kids do. A lot of those games are simply pick-up games. Soccer in the US is so structured that kids don't just play it for fun - that is where the creativity and fluidity of the game come into play. US players lack that part of the game.

So true.

I've always said that this is why Clint Dempsey is the best American player of his generation. He grew up traveling hours each way to play for organized soccer clubs in Houston, but he also played lots of sandlot soccer in his hometown of Nacogdoches with the Latino neighbor kids who had the game in their blood.

(https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/06/09/dempsey.)

That's what it takes, it takes both the structured tutoring in the finer points of the game and the unstructured playing time where you develop instincts. Most of our kids are only getting the former.

 

[GowerND11]

2 other things holding the US back a bit:

Not enough Futsal

and

We have an inferiority complex

Futsal would be massive. We absolutely lack creativity and deftness comparatively to many top tier countries.

I'm not sure if we have a inferiority complex, or if it's apathy and lack of fandom throughout the country. I think (this is a generalization) many parents, especially fathers, don't get soccer. They feel like their son letting them down by playing soccer over football. These parents don't get the sport, and have a kind of prejudice. Therefore, only those who are super into soccer encourage high level competition, unless it's just obvious that the kid has talent.

With the apathy part, I had to argue to coworkers today how this was such a big deal. We lost to god dang Trinidad and Tobago! Yet they were like, "eh it's soccer, we aren't a soccer nation." They don't get that the USMNT should roll over much of CONCACAF. There is a general belief that 3rd tier athletes in the USA play soccer, and that it just isn't a big deal.

 

[NDRock]

I believe it goes beyond that. IMO what separates the Europeans from the US is that they get the technical side down at an early age AND THEN they learn to be creative by playing a LOT more games than US kids do. A lot of those games are simply pick-up games. Soccer in the US is so structured that kids don't just play it for fun - that is where the creativity and fluidity of the game come into play. US players lack that part of the game.

I agree with this. Both my kids have played soccer at Academies. Neither have played much "pick up" soccer. On the other hand, my son always finds some kids to play basketball with. The only time I see pick up games around town is with Hispanic kids.

IMO, the big problem is still cultural. Soccer just doesn't attract our best athletes and may never.

 

[NDohio]

I agree with this. Both my kids have played soccer at Academies. Neither have played much "pick up" soccer. On the other hand, my son always finds some kids to play basketball with. The only time I see pick up games around town is with Hispanic kids.

IMO, the big problem is still cultural. Soccer just doesn't attract our best athletes and may never.

And their fathers play with them...

 

[NDRock]

Pay for play is a HUGE problem right now, as is early sport specialization. AAU and the like are the driving force totally decimating whats going on.

My wife is German, specialization is probably bigger over there (from my limited experience). I've heard that from people of other nationalities that now live here. They are typically amazed at the amount of youth sports going on. I get the feeling that kids in the US are exposed to way more variety of sports than in most countries.

 

[NDRock]

And their fathers play with them...

Yep, I live 1/2 mile from our main soccer complex and that's who I see when I drive by during "off hours".

 

[nlroma1o]

I believe it goes beyond that. IMO what separates the Europeans from the US is that they get the technical side down at an early age AND THEN they learn to be creative by playing a LOT more games than US kids do. A lot of those games are simply pick-up games. Soccer in the US is so structured that kids don't just play it for fun - that is where the creativity and fluidity of the game come into play. US players lack that part of the game.

I agree. If kids are only playing in a structured team setting that isn't enough. If kids aren't spontaneously playing in their spare time because its fun and they love it, they won't get enough reps.

Basically, there are certain pockets across every town in this country where kids are playing only because their parents signed them up. So they are going to practice twice a week and then will play 1 or 2 games on the weekend. Then you have pockets where kids are playing in the streets, in their backyards, or in their local park daily. Those are the kids who are in love with the sport. Those are the kids that clubs and academies need to find and start training at an early age and get them in a system by the age of 12.

No doubt some of those kids are found, but they often get lost in the hustle of everyday life, and or the structured system in place fails to polish that player and turn them into something.

 

[nlroma1o]

And their fathers play with them...

Exactly. My son was just born 2 weeks ago today, and I've already watched 5 games with him. I can't wait until I can teach him this beautiful game. He will be eligible to play in the 2034 WC. I'll send all of you jerseys in the mail. My gift.

 

[GowerND11]

My wife is German, specialization is probably bigger over there (from my limited experience). I've heard that from people of other nationalities that now live here. They are typically amazed at the amount of youth sports going on. I get the feeling that kids in the US are exposed to way more variety of sports than in most countries.

You're right. It doesn't happen as much here. The problem with specialization, in the US, is that it's pay for play, the coaches promise the world but are only a parent or sleezeball looking to get money, is done so in a keeping up with the Jones's type of way, and more.

 

[dublinirish]

Exactly. My son was just born 2 weeks ago today, and I've already watched 5 games with him. I can't wait until I can teach him this beautiful game. He will be eligible to play in the 2034 WC. I'll send all of you jerseys in the mail. My gift.

congrats dude!

 

[NDRock]

You're right. It doesn't happen as much here. The problem with specialization, in the US, is that it's pay for play, the coaches promise the world but are only a parent or sleezeball looking to get money, is done so in a keeping up with the Jones's type of way, and more.

My daughter is a Freshman is high school. She started playing rec soccer at 5 and joined a club team around 9 (Chattanooga Futbal Club). The club is about 40 minutes from our house and we chose it because there were no girls teams close by. I really don't have any negative things to say about her experience. Yes, club soccer can be expensive but I always felt she got good coaching.

I do think there are issues with the current club sport mentality. Often it is from the parents. Every parent thinks their kid is going to go to college on a scholarship. I also don't like that many of the club organizations look down on school ball. Many of the girls on her team did not play middle school soccer because of this. We're talking about a six week season. I'm pretty sure that's not going to be the difference in your kid getting a scholarship.

I'm probably a little biased because I played sports all through high school but I think the school teams are often more meaningful. In club sports, there is always another tournament and the kids really don't get too upset when they lose. Both years my daughter's middle school team lost in the finals, the whole team was in tears. I never saw this at the club level.

None of this really matters regarding the USMNT but just thought I'd share a little of the club life. All in all, it's been very positive for my daughter and helped make her into a very good player. I'm sure each club is different though. District finals tomorrow night for her school team, should be fun.

 

[GowerND11]

My daughter is a Freshman is high school. She started playing rec soccer at 5 and joined a club team around 9 (Chattanooga Futbal Club). The club is about 40 minutes from our house and we chose it because there were no girls teams close by. I really don't have any negative things to say about her experience. Yes, club soccer can be expensive but I always felt she got good coaching.

That's the first thing, is being cognizant of good coaching. Many parents are ill-informed about the coaching. What's their experience, goals, etc.

I do think there are issues with the current club sport mentality. Often it is from the parents. Every parent thinks their kid is going to go to college on a scholarship. I also don't like that many of the club organizations look down on school ball. Many of the girls on her team did not play middle school soccer because of this. We're talking about a six week season. I'm pretty sure that's not going to be the difference in your kid getting a scholarship.

Parents, it seems, are more and more living vicariously through their children. It's the parents that want them to earn an athletic scholarship/go pro(Not that you shouldn't want success for your kids, but have some kind of clue about reality), They ONLY want their child playing for ONLY the most exclusive travel ball team, AAU, etc. I've had parents tell me they don't think "Johnny" should be on the court with their son since he brings their son down. He isn't AS good as our boy, don't play him. (I coach basketball)

I'm probably a little biased because I played sports all through high school but I think the school teams are often more meaningful. In club sports, there is always another tournament and the kids really don't get too upset when they lose. Both years my daughter's middle school team lost in the finals, the whole team was in tears. I never saw this at the club level.

100% agreed. Just like what I said above, I have had parents try to pull their kid from the school team (junior high) so he can play MORE basketball. It's an 18 game season! He's playing plenty. Why travel all over the state/region, for your son to play the same amount of games without his friends? If you want him to play some AAU after the season, go right ahead, but let him be a kid and enjoy the sport some.

 

[notredomer23]

I do think there are issues with the current club sport mentality. Often it is from the parents. Every parent thinks their kid is going to go to college on a scholarship. I also don't like that many of the club organizations look down on school ball. Many of the girls on her team did not play middle school soccer because of this. We're talking about a six week season. I'm pretty sure that's not going to be the difference in your kid getting a scholarship.

I agree but not for the reason you state. Leagues at the youth club sport level are about win win win and not teach teach teach. Emphasis is on physicality, which at the key developmental ages you obviously have some kids who are way more physically along than others.

Nothing wrong with wanting to win, but leagues as a whole have to be designed to play a tactical and technical game. Physicality should be secondary.

 

[GowerND11]

I agree but not for the reason you state. Leagues at the youth club sport level are about win win win and not teach teach teach. Emphasis is on physicality, which at the key developmental ages you obviously have some kids who are way more physically along than others.

Nothing wrong with wanting to win, but leagues as a whole have to be designed to play a tactical and technical game. Physicality should be secondary.

That's a problem across the board in reality, not just soccer. It's a shame...

You think 5,6,7 year old kids really care THAT much about winning? Will they be upset if they lose? Sure they will, but take them home and an hour later they're in the yard playing, or something. Teach the fundamentals, let wins come.

I see it all the time even in the junior high level with basketball. Going into my 6th year. I don't coach my teams to win... We want to win, and I make sure they understand what went wrong with a loss, plus by that age they are very aware of what's happening. But my goal as a coach is to prepare them for high school. Some coaches want to run some gimmicks, sit in zone, etc. I'm teaching man defense, and that's all we play. Sometimes, my guys get caught out of position, but come high school our varsity team is consistently one of the best defensive teams in the league because they know how to play man correctly.

That is a massive rift in youth sports, and it starts at home with parents, finding balance between competing and learning. Then it needs to be reinforced by the coaches.

 

[dublinirish]

Juventus to be subject of new Netflix four-part documentary series

 

[GoldenDomer]

Kind of hit me today that we wont be involved this summer. This system needs a shot in the arm.

 

[nlroma1o]

Juventus to be subject of new Netflix four-part documentary series

Is it another Calciopoli Documentary?

 

[dublinirish]

2 other things holding the US back a bit:

Not enough Futsal

and

We have an inferiority complex

Gordon Strachan blames genetics for Scottish failure – and 10 of the other worst excuses used in sport

 

[notredomer23]

Gordon Strachan blames genetics for Scottish failure – and 10 of the other worst excuses used in sport

um no. Not comparable. Lalas, Hugo Perez, and Klinsmann are a few who have been outspoken about the subject of the US's inferiority complex when playing big matches, often times showing far too much respect to their opponents, bunkering and playing kick and chase rather than any tactical game.

Kinda ironic Klinsmann was one of them considering it's pretty much how he nearly reached the quarterfinals of a WC.

 

[dublinirish]

um no. Not comparable. Lalas, Hugo Perez, and Klinsmann are a few who have been outspoken about the subject of the US's inferiority complex when playing big matches, often times showing far too much respect to their opponents, bunkering and playing kick and chase rather than any tactical game.

Kinda ironic Klinsmann was one of them considering it's pretty much how he nearly reached the quarterfinals of a WC.

dont understand how a US senior international could feel themselves inferior to their latin american counterparts. Soccer isn't even the biggest sport in T+T

 

[notredomer23]

dont understand how a US senior international could feel themselves inferior to their latin american counterparts. Soccer isn't even the biggest sport in T+T

My post was about US Soccer as a whole, not failed qualification or losing to Trinidad. I am talking as a whole. They should absolutely feel superior to every team in CONCACAF besides Mexico. And maybe that false sense of superiority in CONCACAF is why they are where they are. It's no secret the US approaches teams from UEFA and CONMEBOL with way too much respect even if its middling sides like Austria.

 

[Emcee77]

Ugh, I am still so mad and frustrated.

All the stuff we have been saying in this thread about what's wrong with U.S. Soccer, it's mostly true, but none of it should have prevented us from qualifying for the WC. We were undone on Tuesday by bad coaching decisions and a bizarrely gutless, lethargic performance on Tuesday. What was Omar doing on that own goal? Put your foot through it and put it in the stands. Where was Nagbe on the wonder goal? No way Alvin Jones should have all that time to line up that shot.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but all we needed (realistically) was a draw, and I'd have liked to see Arena go full Tony Pulis, man. Ream and Cameron would have been my fullbacks. Yedlin and Villafana on the wings. McCarty next to Bradley (or maybe Nagbe or someone else) to protect the back 4, then Pulisic as a lone CAM/10 and Wood as a lone striker. Never let Trinidad have a sniff of goal and take a 0-0 draw to Russia. But it wasn't to be.

 

[nsisk157]

I just don't see it in Nagbe. TBH, I don't watch much MLS, so maybe he shines in league play, but i do not rate him at all. I won't beat the Gonzalez dead horse but I'd rather have the lad that goes up against United, Chelsea, Spurs, City, etc than a domestic league player.

 

[notredomer23]

the U17 Nats advance to the quarterfinals of their World Cup after they thrashed 3-0-0 Paraguay 5-0. Timothy Weah (yes, the son of the legend) had a hattrick and Andrew Carleton had 3 assists.

Check out this free kick from Chris Goslin:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Keeping us on the edge of our seats, <a href="https://twitter.com/chrisgoslin17?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@chrisgoslin17</a> &#55357;&#56384; <a href="https://t.co/VjlW502CqX">pic.twitter.com/VjlW502CqX</a></p>— Atlanta United FC (@ATLUTD) <a href="https://twitter.com/ATLUTD/status/919946601912782848?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

People don't wanna hear it, but US Soccer is fine and while changes do need to take place, it is not as significant as some (including myself) have indicated in the past week. Our U20 team without 4 of its best players (Pulisic, McKennie, Wright, and Taitigue) just made it to the quarterfinals of a WC, only losing to the eventual second place team in extra time 2-1. Now we have the U17s advancing to a quarterfinal with a match coming up verses England or Japan.

We'll be alright.

 

[Rogue219]

This assumes we cut ties with Tim Howard (43), Brad Guzan (38), Fabian Johnson (34), Jorge Villafana (33), Geoff Cameron (37), Omar Gonzalez (34), Matt Besler (35), Graham Zusi (36), Eric Lichaj (34).

Yeah. Let's assume it. Done. Put Altidore in there too.

The entire board needs to be cleaned out too. And no, this isn't change for the sake of change. It is necessity out of sense of urgency to stop being arrogant and ignoring what needs to be fixed.

 

[IrishLion]

Columbus crew "considering" a move to Austin, Texas.

The conspiracy theorist in me hopes this is to (1) clear more room in the east for expansion, meaning Nashville AND Cincinnati get spots, in addition to Miami FC, and (2) because Garber told Crew that Cincinnati is in, and now Columbus is leaving the general Ohio market for greener pastures.

 

[notredomer23]

Columbus crew "considering" a move to Austin, Texas.

The conspiracy theorist in me hopes this is to (1) clear more room in the east for expansion, meaning Nashville AND Cincinnati get spots, in addition to Miami FC, and (2) because Garber told Crew that Cincinnati is in, and now Columbus is leaving the general Ohio market for greener pastures.

More of an ultimatum TBH. Columbus will get a stadium downtown. If they don't they will go to Austin in 2019. Think it would be a good move for the reasons you mentioned, plus, Austin is a phenomenal soccer market. The stadium would be privately funded there. Everyone (minus the Crew fans, who have not done a good job in support) wins.

 

[IrishLion]

More of an ultimatum TBH. Columbus will get a stadium downtown. If they don't they will go to Austin in 2019. Think it would be a good move for the reasons you mentioned, plus, Austin is a phenomenal soccer market. The stadium would be privately funded there. Everyone (minus the Crew fans, who have not done a good job in support) wins.

For sure. It's just another stadium issue. But it also seems that Garber is kind of putting the screws to Columbus, because their attendance and business numbers are crappy in general. A shiny new stadium doesn't necessarily fix that, but relocation and a new fanbase might.

Just putting on the tin-foil because of the bonus reasons that might appeal to Garber and Co. behind the scenes lol

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow this paragraph from <a href="https://twitter.com/thesoccerdon?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@thesoccerdon</a> says a ton about how serious this <a href="https://twitter.com/ColumbusCrewSC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ColumbusCrewSC</a> situation is. <a href="https://t.co/WumVFjw2mZ">pic.twitter.com/WumVFjw2mZ</a></p>— Cincy Soccer Talk (@cincysoccertalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/cincysoccertalk/status/920274524750348288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 17, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[notredomer23]

For sure. It's just another stadium issue. But it also seems that Garber is kind of putting the screws to Columbus, because their attendance and business numbers are crappy in general. A shiny new stadium doesn't necessarily fix that, but relocation and a new fanbase might.

Just putting on the tin-foil because of the bonus reasons that might appeal to Garber and Co. behind the scenes lol

I don't really think it's as tin foil hat as you think, but I think a Cincinnati-Columbus rivalry would be so good for MLS. To me the MLS 1.0 teams like the Rapids, Crew, and Revs need to get with the program or face extinction (or complete rebranding, including moving).