Democratic Primary Thread (New Poll - January)

Democratic Primary Thread (New Poll - January)

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 4 5.8%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 14 20.3%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 5 7.2%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 16 23.2%
  • Andrew Yang

    Votes: 7 10.1%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    Votes: 5 7.2%
  • Mike Bloomberg

    Votes: 6 8.7%
  • Other (i.e. an unlisted candidate)

    Votes: 12 17.4%

  • Total voters
    69

ulukinatme

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Right now, you can literally get better odds to bet on Hillary Clinton to win the nomination than Warren or Klobuchar or Steyer. They need to drop out, and they need to do it before Super Tuesday.

Bernie Sanders is considered something like a 2-to-1 dog to Trump in the general election should he get the nomination. Which certainly means he has a plausible path to victory, because Trump was about a 4-to-1 dog on election night before winning 2016's general election. We won't really know what the nation thinks of Bernie until we've had a few debates.

My only worry is the youth vote. They came out for Obama in droves, and Bernie has their favor right now. They're a fickle group, but if they show up again it could make things interesting. I expect a lot of progressives will hold their nose and stick with Bernie even if they aren't favorable to socialism, only because they'll see him as a better alternative to Trump. I can't imagine it would work out differently for Clinton if she gets a second shot, but Bernie's popularity with the youth could give him a better chance than her 2016 result.
 

ulukinatme

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F33KcdN.jpg
 

stlnd01

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Simply my opinion, but I think Trump wins easy over Bernie. And the down ballot losses would hurt the dems big time (I can understand why the establishment doesn't like Bernie). Bernie has just enough hard core followers to beat a group mostly flawed candidates, but not enough attraction to grab the moderate libs and independents to challenge in the general. The debates are gonna be on fire though if it's Trump vs Bernie lol...

I think a lot of it would boil down to whether suburban moderates dislike Trump more than they dislike Bernie. There's arguments to be made either way (or they just stay home).

It's not like Trump is broadly popular. He won the election by a combined 100,000 votes in three states, his approval ratings are low and have really never climbed since he took office, despite the strong economy and all he's done to consolidate Republican support. A lot a lot of Americans really do not like him.

I think Trump can count on the Red States. Any Dem can count on the Blue states. In the 10 or so swing states Trump will do well with white voters, rural voters, religious voters, and the Dem will do well with urban voters, nonwhite voters and probably well-educated women. Seems like both parties' bases will be highly motivated. So much feels baked-in at this point. So basically it comes down to normal moderate voters, particularly women, in places like suburban Philly and Detroit and Denver and Phoenix.

For what it's worth, I think Bernie is about the worst possible major Dem to appeal to those folks. But I don't think they love Trump either. They certainly didn't in 2018 when the Dems routed the suburbs by running normal moderates. Will they go for Bernie? Trump? Stay home? I'm not sure we'll know either way until the votes start coming in.
 
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Irish#1

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Simply my opinion, but I think Trump wins easy over Bernie. And the down ballot losses would hurt the dems big time (I can understand why the establishment doesn't like Bernie). Bernie has just enough hard core followers to beat a group mostly flawed candidates, but not enough attraction to grab the moderate libs and independents to challenge in the general. The debates are gonna be on fire though if it's Trump vs Bernie lol...

I doubt the hardcore followers will ever change their mind. The question is the moderates. When Bernie has to go toe to toe with only Trump will they change their mind when they finally realize that the only way to implement Bernie's plans is to reduce our paychecks?
 

stlnd01

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Right now, you can literally get better odds to bet on Hillary Clinton to win the nomination than Warren or Klobuchar or Steyer. They need to drop out, and they need to do it before Super Tuesday.

At this point it's hard to see one of them dropping out making much difference on Super Tuesday. Ballots are printed. Early voting has already started in several states (I'm planning to vote today). California's had tons of votes already cast.

I guess if Klobuchar bombs tonight's debate it might make sense for her to quit. She doesn't have the money to compete in the big states anyway. But Steyer's pretty invested in South Carolina, and Warren has raised a ton of cash since last week's debate. They're not going anywhere for at least a week.

Nor should they, just to help, who, Bloomberg? Maybe he could win some votes first before demanding other candidates quit on his behalf.
 

IrishLax

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At this point it's hard to see one of them dropping out making much difference on Super Tuesday. Ballots are printed. Early voting has already started in several states (I'm planning to vote today). California's had tons of votes already cast.

I guess if Klobuchar bombs tonight's debate it might make sense for her to quit. She doesn't have the money to compete in the big states anyway. But Steyer's pretty invested in South Carolina, and Warren has raised a ton of cash since last week's debate. They're not going anywhere for at least a week.

Nor should they, just to help, who, Bloomberg? Maybe he could win some votes first before demanding other candidates quit on his behalf.

Any non-Bernie candidate. Klobuchar is siphoning votes from Buttigieg/Biden. Steyer is siphoning votes from Biden/Bloomberg. Warren is the only one maybe siphoning some votes from Bernie, people don't think there is much of an intersection there anymore... and she's also the only one with any momentum.
 

NorthDakota

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I don't think the Bernie crowd is really all that different than conservatives who voted for Trump in the 2016 GOP primary. He's the guy you vote for if you think the system doesn't work anymore - only instead of being a conservative, you're a liberal.
He's not my guy - practically speaking I don't think he'd be very good at governing - but I get his appeal. He's pure, and speaks an emotional truth about this country in ways guys like Bloomberg and Buttigieg, and even Warren, just don't.
And if he wins the nomination, so be it. I agree the Republicans will beat him up in ways the Dems never would. But all he has to do is keep the Hillary states, take back Pennsylvania and Michigan - which any sentient Dem should - and win Wisconsin or Arizona. It could certainly happen.

I have a hard time seeing Bernie win Pennsylvania, wants to ban fracking. His Castro love probably hands Florida to Donald of Orange as well. Arizona would be tough...lots of old folks there...they arent voting for a commie.

The more people look into his past the more disturbing he looks. In 2016 primary he was just the goofy old guy who wasnt Hillary. 2020 Bernie appears to be a...well...the sort of guy who honeymoons in Moscow and pumps up Cuban literacy programs lmao
 

stlnd01

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I have a hard time seeing Bernie win Pennsylvania, wants to ban fracking. His Castro love probably hands Florida to Donald of Orange as well. Arizona would be tough...lots of old folks there...they arent voting for a commie.

The more people look into his past the more disturbing he looks. In 2016 primary he was just the goofy old guy who wasnt Hillary. 2020 Bernie appears to be a...well...the sort of guy who honeymoons in Moscow and pumps up Cuban literacy programs lmao

Agree Bernie will probably struggle in Florida but he doesn't need to win it to win the Presidency.

I don't know Pennsylvania well enough to know how many votes will move from D to R over banning fracking. I'd be surprised if it's really all that many? Better turnout in Philly/burbs would seem to swamp the small town fracking vote.

Arizona has a lot of old Midwesterners but it also has a ton of Latinos and they just came out huge for him in Nevada. And it's been trending purple. Who knows.

I completely agree the Republicans will drag out every dumb thing Bernie said as a young socialist (and batter him on every potential tax hike as he'd incur as an old Social Democrat). But the Dems have spent four years battering Trump with every dumb thing he says and here we are. So I've given up predicting.
 

Irishize

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If Bernie gets the nomination, it’s not a slam dunk for Trump. I remember when Bush One looked unbeatable during the Gulf, then the economy tanked & taxes were raised and he lost to a guy with similar personal baggage as Trump who could never earn 50% of the vote.

If the economy tanks and this coronavirus becomes an epidemic in the US, all bets are off.
 

Wild Bill

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At this point it's hard to see one of them dropping out making much difference on Super Tuesday. Ballots are printed. Early voting has already started in several states (I'm planning to vote today). California's had tons of votes already cast.

I guess if Klobuchar bombs tonight's debate it might make sense for her to quit. She doesn't have the money to compete in the big states anyway. But Steyer's pretty invested in South Carolina, and Warren has raised a ton of cash since last week's debate. They're not going anywhere for at least a week.

Nor should they, just to help, who, Bloomberg? Maybe he could win some votes first before demanding other candidates quit on his behalf.

He should just bribe them.
 

stlnd01

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Any non-Bernie candidate. Klobuchar is siphoning votes from Buttigieg/Biden. Steyer is siphoning votes from Biden/Bloomberg. Warren is the only one maybe siphoning some votes from Bernie, people don't think there is much of an intersection there anymore... and she's also the only one with any momentum.

I guess my point is no one candidate dropping out is going to move the needle far enough fast enough at this point. You’d need three, maybe four, of Klobuchar/Pete/Warren/Biden/Bloomberg to quit for whoever remains to amass enough support. That may (should) happen after Super Tuesday but hard to see it before then.
They all still think they have a shot to be one of the last two standing, and aside from Klobuchar they probably all do.
 

IrishLax

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I guess my point is no one candidate dropping out is going to move the needle far enough fast enough at this point. You’d need three, maybe four, of Klobuchar/Pete/Warren/Biden/Bloomberg to quit for whoever remains to amass enough support. That may (should) happen after Super Tuesday but hard to see it before then.
They all still think they have a shot to be one of the last two standing, and aside from Klobuchar they probably all do.

Steyer no way. Warren, maybe. But she's also basically off-the-board right now. She is being given 80-to-1 odds of securing the nomination. Her "path" seems to basically be something crazy happening with Bernie and then capturing the progressive wing... but she's running out of time for that to materialize. She's way better attacking a Bloomberg than a Sanders, and that's not who she needs to beat.
 

stlnd01

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Steyer no way. Warren, maybe. But she's also basically off-the-board right now. She is being given 80-to-1 odds of securing the nomination. Her "path" seems to basically be something crazy happening with Bernie and then capturing the progressive wing... but she's running out of time for that to materialize. She's way better attacking a Bloomberg than a Sanders, and that's not who she needs to beat.

Yeah, sorry, no way on Steyer. I didn’t even think to mention him.
Warren still has a shot but agree it’s narrowing rapidly. She, Pete and Klobuchar are fighting for the same base (basically college-educated whites). But of those three, she’s the one who can pull over some Bernie voters, and maybe some of Biden’s, which makes her the most likely of the three to prevail in a two- or three-person race at the end.
Would help if she actually started, ya know, winning some votes. If she can’t at least pull some second-places in big states next week she’ll be done.
 
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NorthDakota

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Agree Bernie will probably struggle in Florida but he doesn't need to win it to win the Presidency.

I don't know Pennsylvania well enough to know how many votes will move from D to R over banning fracking. I'd be surprised if it's really all that many? Better turnout in Philly/burbs would seem to swamp the small town fracking vote.

Arizona has a lot of old Midwesterners but it also has a ton of Latinos and they just came out huge for him in Nevada. And it's been trending purple. Who knows.

I completely agree the Republicans will drag out every dumb thing Bernie said as a young socialist (and batter him on every potential tax hike as he'd incur as an old Social Democrat). But the Dems have spent four years battering Trump with every dumb thing he says and here we are. So I've given up predicting.


The thing about Bernie is he wasnt a 23 year old recent college grad saying these things. He was in his 40's and 50's saying them.
 
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koonja

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Joe Biden looks like he could star in a Crest, Viagra, and Fitness Center ad, all in the same 30 seconds.


Most presidential looking of the candidates.
 

ACamp1900

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Has anyone seen an honest, reasonable estimate of what all Bernie's proposed programs (day care, loan forgiveness, free higher ed, medicare etc...) would cost in total?? I'm honestly curious... I've seen some but they are either ring wing takes that have the total closing in on the 100 trillions or left wing takes that has it all magically offset by this or that and costing literally nothing...
 
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koonja

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I believe he wears dentures lol

He could probably sell people on Crest at the beginning of the commercial, and end it with a pitch for dentures.

He looks so perfectly presidential I think it'd work.
 
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ACamp1900

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Joe Biden looks like he could star in a Crest, Viagra, and Fitness Center ad, all in the same 30 seconds.


Most presidential looking of the candidates.

Definitely looks every bit as 'rapey' as any of our other recent Presidents.....
 

Irish#1

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Has anyone seen an honest, reasonable estimate of what all Bernie's proposed programs (day care, loan forgiveness, free higher ed, medicare etc...) would cost in total?? I'm honestly curious... I've seen some but they are either ring wing takes that have the total closing in on the 100 trillions or left wing takes that has it all magically offset by this or that and costing literally nothing...

"Experts estimate that Sanders' major proposals would cost a staggering $60 trillion and would double the size of the government (while his tax plans fall $27 trillion short of paying for it).
 

GoIrish41

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Has anyone seen an honest, reasonable estimate of what all Bernie's proposed programs (day care, loan forgiveness, free higher ed, medicare etc...) would cost in total?? I'm honestly curious... I've seen some but they are either ring wing takes that have the total closing in on the 100 trillions or left wing takes that has it all magically offset by this or that and costing literally nothing...

These are Bernie's plans and where he says the money will come from.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484454-sanders-releases-list-of-how-to-pay-for-his-proposals
 

Irish YJ

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I think a lot of it would boil down to whether suburban moderates dislike Trump more than they dislike Bernie. There's arguments to be made either way (or they just stay home).

It's not like Trump is broadly popular. He won the election by a combined 100,000 votes in three states, his approval ratings are low and have really never climbed since he took office, despite the strong economy and all he's done to consolidate Republican support. A lot a lot of Americans really do not like him.

I think Trump can count on the Red States. Any Dem can count on the Blue states. In the 10 or so swing states Trump will do well with white voters, rural voters, religious voters, and the Dem will do well with urban voters, nonwhite voters and probably well-educated women. Seems like both parties' bases will be highly motivated. So much feels baked-in at this point. So basically it comes down to normal moderate voters, particularly women, in places like suburban Philly and Detroit and Denver and Phoenix.

For what it's worth, I think Bernie is about the worst possible major Dem to appeal to those folks. But I don't think they love Trump either. They certainly didn't in 2018 when the Dems routed the suburbs by running normal moderates. Will they go for Bernie? Trump? Stay home? I'm not sure we'll know either way until the votes start coming in.

I posted presidential approval poles in the other thread, and Trump's approval is actually higher at the same point in his presidency than Obama. So while he's not crushing it, he's doing better than the last president that got re-elected.

2018 IMO was the height of outrage over 2016, and saw the biggest mid term turnout in several decades. Two years later, and all the things the left said would happen, didn't. Trump isn't locked up, the economy is humming, and the world is not ending. Not sure if the left can channel the same outrage with any of the current candidates. If anything, I think the constant outrage has worn many people out, or perhaps their simply numb to it now. Then if you add the Bernie scare factor to the recipe, I just can't see him coming up with a win. Honestly though, I didn't see Trump comping up with a win either though.

Gonna be fun.
 

Irish YJ

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I never thought Biden would become so unlikable. This whole "I did" and "we did" song and dance, and talk loudly bit, is just horrible. Almost sad for him.

Just tuned in, but surprised I've watched for 5 minutes and nobody has take a shot at Bernie or Bloomberg.
 

NorthDakota

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Bernie is not responding well to getting hit on his support for communism. I think its setting in for him that his statements about commies is going to sink his shot at the White House
 

drayer54

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150 million dead from guns, Bloomberg bought the House, We’re all racist, They’re going to do things Trump did, but more better, and we have to pick the candidate who will think of Uncle Dick when confiscating arms.

Bloomberg looks so heavily prepped.
 
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