Culture

[ulukinatme]

Glad everyone watched the video!

Yes, Toronto police said to keep their FOBs on the front door to prevent the possibility of being attacked. They're breaking in to steal the car. Did I miss anything?

Avoiding bloodshed is paramount, but in what world is it acceptable to just leave your car keys at your front door for thieves? That shouldn't be the solution.

 

[TorontoGold]

Yes, Toronto police said to keep their FOBs on the front door to prevent the possibility of being attacked. They're breaking in to steal the car. Did I miss anything?

Avoiding bloodshed is paramount, but in what world is it acceptable to just leave your car keys at your front door for thieves? That shouldn't be the solution.

The tweet says "Canadian police advise home owners to leave their car fobs outside so armed thieves can steal them more easily without confronting home owners." which is false. The front door =/= outside.

I don't agree it's the solution either. I don't have any suggestions on how to stop car theft, but a hitler sympathizer misrepresenting the statement so that people will see the headline and share it is not right.

 

[ulukinatme]

The tweet says "Canadian police advise home owners to leave their car fobs outside so armed thieves can steal them more easily without confronting home owners." which is false. The front door =/= outside.

I don't agree it's the solution either. I don't have any suggestions on how to stop car theft, but a hitler sympathizer misrepresenting the statement so that people will see the headline and share it is not right.

Now you have me confused. So the front door is not outside in Canada?

 

[TorontoGold]

Now you have me confused. So the front door is not outside in Canada?

Doors have two sides, correct? If I say "I leave my shoes by the front door" would you assume that I close the door and leave my shoes outside, or would you think hmmm maybe he's leaving them on the side by the front door?

Do you rationally think that a police officer would say leave your car keys outside?

 

[ab2cmiller]

The headline claimed leave your FOB outside. Officer in the video said leave your FOB "at the front door".

 

[ulukinatme]

I thought the point of leaving them out for the thieves is we're trying to avoid confrontation and the risk of homicide. If they still have to break into the home to get the keys that doesn't alleviate the situation. Not everyone puts their keys by the door, if a burglar is after the car he's going to approach the owner and ask where the keys are located. According to Vivant's website only 34% of home burglaries go through the front door. I'm just saying no matter how you slice it this strategy doesn't add up.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I thought the point of leaving them out for the thieves is we're trying to avoid confrontation and the risk of homicide. If they still have to break into the home to get the keys that doesn't alleviate the situation. Not everyone puts their keys by the door, if a burglar is after the car he's going to approach the owner and ask where the keys are located. According to Vivant's website only 34% of home burglaries go through the front door. I'm just saying no matter how you slice it this strategy doesn't add up.

Maybe the solution is to post a sign at the front door alerting the thief where the keys can be found.

 

[ulukinatme]

Maybe the solution is to post a sign at the front door alerting the thief where the keys can be found.

I think the solution would be to implement safety and security measures, install an ignition kill switch to prevent thieves from starting your car, and prosecute and/or shoot would be thieves if the right opportunity presents itself. I don't see a scenario where making the thief's job easier will deter crime.

 

[TorontoGold]

I think the solution would be to implement safety and security measures, install an ignition kill switch to prevent thieves from starting your car, and prosecute and/or shoot would be thieves if the right opportunity presents itself. I don't see a scenario where making the thief's job easier will deter crime.

To be clear - you're revising your initial position and refuting the claim that is being made in the hitler sympathizers tweet, correct? The keys aren't actually supposed to be left outside?

What kind of information are you basing the assumption that Toronto is not prosecuting vehicle thiefs? How do you come to this conclusion?

 

[IRISHDODGER]

 

[ulukinatme]

To be clear - you're revising your initial position and refuting the claim that is being made in the hitler sympathizers tweet, correct? The keys aren't actually supposed to be left outside?

What kind of information are you basing the assumption that Toronto is not prosecuting vehicle thiefs? How do you come to this conclusion?

Aren't they? It's clear that the police are telling people to make the keys easily accessible at the front door. What side they're available on is still in question.

I'm not suggesting they don't prosecute vehicle thefts, but aiding the thieves doesn't seem like a winning strategy in deterring the crime.

You keep referring to that guy is a Hitler sympathizer. I'm trying to find some info about that, but all I'm finding is...Meidas Touch

 

[TorontoGold]

Aren't they? It's clear that the police are telling people to make the keys easily accessible at the front door. What side they're available on is still in question.

I'm not suggesting they don't prosecute vehicle thefts, but aiding the thieves doesn't seem like a winning strategy in deterring the crime.

You keep referring to that guy is a Hitler sympathizer. I'm trying to find some info about that, but all I'm finding is...Meidas Touch

How is it in question? Logically, if I told you that I put my boots by the front door - you would assume that I leave them on the inside of the house, right? So, when a law enforcement officer says to leave keys to your car, much more valuable than boots, by the front door you aren't sure what he means?

How is it aiding the thieves? The destructive action is breaking into your house. If the keys were left outside in a bowl with a sign saying "take my car" then yes that's aiding. But having your keys inside your house by the front door is just harm mitigation.

Ok see below - this is his reddit logs which is widely available on Google if you type Ian Miles Cheong Hitler.

He acknowledged it

The guy is fucking horrible and if you find his tweets popping up in your timeline it's an alarming sign.

 

[ulukinatme]

How is it in question? Logically, if I told you that I put my boots by the front door - you would assume that I leave them on the inside of the house, right? So, when a law enforcement officer says to leave keys to your car, much more valuable than boots, by the front door you aren't sure what he means?

How is it aiding the thieves? The destructive action is breaking into your house. If the keys were left outside in a bowl with a sign saying "take my car" then yes that's aiding. But having your keys inside your house by the front door is just harm mitigation.

Ok see below - this is his reddit logs which is widely available on Google if you type Ian Miles Cheong Hitler.

He acknowledged it

The guy is fucking horrible and if you find his tweets popping up in your timeline it's an alarming sign.

If I don't want someone to steal my car, I'm not making my keys easily accessible. I'm probably going to hide the keys, and if a thief wants to know where they are there's any number of lines you can give them to prevent said car from being taken. "My wife has the keys." "That's my child's car, they're not here." " I don't know where I left them." A burglar likely isn't going to spend a bunch of time trying to find the keys, and escalating the situation to homicide isn't going to procure the keys either. The point is there's probably better solutions to this problem than making them easily available.

Like I said, I don't know the guy. I was trying to dig up some info. The initial webpage hits don't really detail that history, but the first pic on the images tab that came up was the one you just linked. I didn't link the guy originally. He's clearly a dumbass, but it also seems pretty obvious given the dialogue in 2014 that he's in an internet spat with someone and spewing word vomit to anger them. It's childish behavior, but I wouldn't say throwing out baseless insults makes someone a Hitler apologist. It just makes him an immature, piece of shit internet troll.

 

[Irish#1]

 

[drayer54]

Aren't they? It's clear that the police are telling people to make the keys easily accessible at the front door. What side they're available on is still in question.

I'm not suggesting they don't prosecute vehicle thefts, but aiding the thieves doesn't seem like a winning strategy in deterring the crime.

You keep referring to that guy is a Hitler sympathizer. I'm trying to find some info about that, but all I'm finding is...Meidas Touch

Recall that MeidasTouch is not news but a pac pretending to be news and spreading disinformation.

Reid Hoffman has spent tons on this approach to attack Republicans.

The kid made some dumbass comments in a game chat and now he’s a Hitler sympathizer? They just find him annoying (pro-Hitler) because he generates embarrassing content for libs.

 

[Blazers46]

Agree or disagree?

I agree, 100%. I think I’ve beat this message to the ground in the mass shooting thread. But there are people on this board that think more government and free breakfast is a better solution.

The government does everything to destroy family. I was just talking to somebody yesterday about how they always want to keep raising the inheritance tax, and recently they have talked about eliminating inheritance altogether. That’s just one example of the government screwing with family.

 

[TorontoGold]

If I don't want someone to steal my car, I'm not making my keys easily accessible. I'm probably going to hide the keys, and if a thief wants to know where they are there's any number of lines you can give them to prevent said car from being taken. "My wife has the keys." "That's my child's car, they're not here." " I don't know where I left them." A burglar likely isn't going to spend a bunch of time trying to find the keys, and escalating the situation to homicide isn't going to procure the keys either. The point is there's probably better solutions to this problem than making them easily available.

Like I said, I don't know the guy. I was trying to dig up some info. The initial webpage hits don't really detail that history, but the first pic on the images tab that came up was the one you just linked. I didn't link the guy originally. He's clearly a dumbass, but it also seems pretty obvious given the dialogue in 2014 that he's in an internet spat with someone and spewing word vomit to anger them. It's childish behavior, but I wouldn't say throwing out baseless insults makes someone a Hitler apologist. It just makes him an immature, piece of shit internet troll.

You glossed over this - How is it in question? Logically, if I told you that I put my boots by the front door - you would assume that I leave them on the inside of the house, right? So, when a law enforcement officer says to leave keys to your car, much more valuable than boots, by the front door you aren't sure what he means?

You're right that doesn't immediately make him a Hitler apologist, but his whole body of work certainly gives a more complete picture. Additionally, in his "apology" he takes no ownership for his past statements. He doesn't deserve your effort in trying to soften his image. It's ok to say he's a bad person.

 

[Blazers46]

I’m confused what the argument is. I am sure you guys both agree accommodating thieves is a very dumb idea.

I will also add putting it by the front door, even inside, is dumb logic. Most break-ins in apartment are front door break ins… so sure. But most break-ins in a single family home are windows and other places with easier access. Unless you leave a note how is the burglar going to know where your keys are? This is really dumb.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

How about I keep my car keys inside, lock my car and lock my door. If I have a problem, I call the police and they show up to help because my tax dollars something something?

Don't shoot the unarmed guy walking on the sidewalk in front of my house for wearing a hoodie. Blast the intruder in my living room who is there uninvited because he broke in and I choose not to own firearms. I can clean up the mess if I'm not dead.

I support the police and I would hope they can assist me if I need them, but when they fuck up and do crime or corruption, they should be held accountable. Again, not terribly complicated.

 

[TorontoGold]

I’m confused what the argument is. I am sure you guys both agree accommodating thieves is a very dumb idea.

I will also add putting it by the front door, even inside, is dumb logic. Most break-ins in apartment are front door break ins… so sure. But most break-ins in a single family home are windows and other places with easier access. Unless you leave a note how is the burglar going to know where your keys are? This is really dumb.

The point I was making, which I don't know what it's been this difficult, is that the tweet that sparked the outrage is demonstrably false. I don't know why Uluk can't just say "yeah that tweet is clearly incorrect". No reasonable person thinks a LEO is telling people to leave keys outside.

Car theft is a HUGE problem up here, I did the math yesterday and the rate for Toronto is like 407 per 100K citizens which is almost twice as much as the vehicle theft rate in the US.

The point of leaving the keys at the front door is damage mitigation for personal harm. You can replace a car, 99% of people in the middle of the night can't trick their way out of a robbery or fight back against them so not letting yourself get rinsed over a car makes sense.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

 

[Blazers46]

The point I was making, which I don't know what it's been this difficult, is that the tweet that sparked the outrage is demonstrably false. I don't know why Uluk can't just say "yeah that tweet is clearly incorrect". No reasonable person thinks a LEO is telling people to leave keys outside.

Car theft is a HUGE problem up here, I did the math yesterday and the rate for Toronto is like 407 per 100K citizens which is almost twice as much as the vehicle theft rate in the US.

The point of leaving the keys at the front door is damage mitigation for personal harm. You can replace a car, 99% of people in the middle of the night can't trick their way out of a robbery or fight back against them so not letting yourself get rinsed over a car makes sense.

Did the police correct all of the criticism that they got? I think the only articles I have seen have said that their response to the criticism was giving other advice, but not correcting people, believing that they met outside. I guess Maya assumption would be that the officer is suggesting to keep them outside. Even if you leave the keys at the front door they’re still going to break in. When people break into an occupied house they don’t start looking in drawers or Faraday bags. They will go right to the person and make them give up the keys.

 

[ulukinatme]

The point I was making, which I don't know what it's been this difficult, is that the tweet that sparked the outrage is demonstrably false. I don't know why Uluk can't just say "yeah that tweet is clearly incorrect". No reasonable person thinks a LEO is telling people to leave keys outside.

Car theft is a HUGE problem up here, I did the math yesterday and the rate for Toronto is like 407 per 100K citizens which is almost twice as much as the vehicle theft rate in the US.

The point of leaving the keys at the front door is damage mitigation for personal harm. You can replace a car, 99% of people in the middle of the night can't trick their way out of a robbery or fight back against them so not letting yourself get rinsed over a car makes sense.

The point the officer made was they're trying to avoid confrontation by making the key easily accessible. He says leave it at the front door in a bag. He doesn't specify one way or the other, but if they're trying to avoid confrontation why are they leaving it inside? That still invites the thief to break into your home and possibly lead to an escalation. The whole strategy seems bad honestly, no matter how you slice it. You never want to see someone get hurt, but making it easier for a thief to take your vehicle is silly.

 

[TorontoGold]

Did the police correct all of the criticism that they got? I think the only articles I have seen have said that their response to the criticism was giving other advice, but not correcting people, believing that they met outside. I guess Maya assumption would be that the officer is suggesting to keep them outside. Even if you leave the keys at the front door they’re still going to break in. When people break into an occupied house they don’t start looking in drawers or Faraday bags. They will go right to the person and make them give up the keys.

When has a police officer ever suggested something like that before?

The point the officer made was they're trying to avoid confrontation by making the key easily accessible. He says leave it at the front door in a bag. He doesn't specify one way or the other, but if they're trying to avoid confrontation why are they leaving it inside? That still invites the thief to break into your home and possibly lead to an escalation. The whole strategy seems bad honestly, no matter how you slice it. You never want to see someone get hurt, but making it easier for a thief to take your vehicle is silly.

Really? Confrontation can be stopped if the person breaking in sees the keys by the front door.

So to be clear - if I say I leave my shoes by the front door you would be confused as to whether I leave them outside or inside?

 

[Blazers46]

When has a police officer ever suggested something like that before?

That’s not relevant. I’m just saying, the police department has not clarified what they met despite the backlash. I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong I think, putting the keys inside or outside is as stupid as the other.

I know you don’t like antidotal stories, but I have plenty where the officer has said this to me. I owned a business on the border, near Juarez Mexico. We would get calls from people claiming they were from the cartel, asking us to put money in a certain location or we would die. This happened three or four times. The police told us next time we go get a just to comply and let them know what happened.

There was another time a disgruntled customer was calling, threatening to come to the store and kill everyone in the store. I asked the officer if the guy came if I am within my rights to defend myself, the officer told me to grab my phone and run out of the back door. A store with about $400,000 worth of inventory on the floor.

Another customer came into the store and claimed a $5000 bike was his. Without any indication or evidence that the bike was his, the police officer just took it and told me that since I am a business, I can absorb the loss better than normal person.

So if you’re asking if a police officer has ever said anything stupid, my answer would be yes.

 

[TorontoGold]

That’s not relevant. I’m just saying, the police department has not clarified what they met despite the backlash. I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong I think, putting the keys inside or outside is as stupid as the other.

I know you don’t like antidotal stories, but I have plenty where the officer has said this to me. I owned a business on the border, near Juarez Mexico. We would get calls from people claiming they were from the cartel, asking us to put money in a certain location or we would die. This happened three or four times. The police told us next time we go get a just to comply and let them know what happened.

There was another time a disgruntled customer was calling, threatening to come to the store and kill everyone in the store. I asked the officer if the guy came if I am within my rights to defend myself, the officer told me to grab my phone and run out of the back door. A store with about $400,000 worth of inventory on the floor.

Another customer came into the store and claimed a $5000 bike was his. Without any indication or evidence that the bike was his, the police officer just took it and told me that since I am a business, I can absorb the loss better than normal person.

So if you’re asking if a police officer has ever said anything stupid, my answer would be yes.

My entire point is that so many are falling into propaganda pushed by someone as terrible as IMC.

Why would the TPS need to tell people "Hey don't leave your keys outside". This is a clear attempt by IMC and the alt right to try and say "ohhhh liberal Canada going into the shitter." When Toronto and Ontario has been run by Conservatives for the majority of the 2000's lol.

If an adult person truly believes that the Toronto Police are advocating for people to leave keys outside they should have their drivers licenses revoked. I don't believe that anyone here actually believes that and it's just "Oh libby Toronto, gotta pick the other side", Ian Miles Cheong and leaving your car keys outside are not defensible positions.

 

[ab2cmiller]

My entire point is that so many are falling into propaganda pushed by someone as terrible as IMC.

Why would the TPS need to tell people "Hey don't leave your keys outside". This is a clear attempt by IMC and the alt right to try and say "ohhhh liberal Canada going into the shitter." When Toronto and Ontario has been run by Conservatives for the majority of the 2000's lol.

If an adult person truly believes that the Toronto Police are advocating for people to leave keys outside they should have their drivers licenses revoked. I don't believe that anyone here actually believes that and it's just "Oh libby Toronto, gotta pick the other side", Ian Miles Cheong and leaving your car keys outside are not defensible positions.

I stand with Toronto.

I feel dirty just saying that.

 

[TorontoGold]

I stand with Toronto.

I feel dirty just saying that.

It's a terrible place.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[Sea Turtle]

The point I was making, which I don't know what it's been this difficult, is that the tweet that sparked the outrage is demonstrably false. I don't know why Uluk can't just say "yeah that tweet is clearly incorrect". No reasonable person thinks a LEO is telling people to leave keys outside.

Car theft is a HUGE problem up here, I did the math yesterday and the rate for Toronto is like 407 per 100K citizens which is almost twice as much as the vehicle theft rate in the US.

The point of leaving the keys at the front door is damage mitigation for personal harm. You can replace a car, 99% of people in the middle of the night can't trick their way out of a robbery or fight back against them so not letting yourself get rinsed over a car makes sense.

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