Culture

[irishff1014]

Taking anyone's life is terrible. The problem today, is if it is a white guy killing anyone but a straight white guy, it's automatically a racist hate crime. It makes for a much better story in the media's minds. We no longer have the patience to learn all of the facts before reacting.

The media doesn’t care if they are accurate anymore.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Read this article from the great bastion of conservatism, the HuffPost concerning the Mass Murder at the gay nightclub Pulse back in 2016. Obviously different situation, but the jump to conclusions because of how "obvious" the motivation was, is kind of similar. Frankly, I don't think I even knew that the whole homophobic killer storyline was disproven. But of course the whole thing just made too much sense, the story was written. Public perception was carved in stone.

But this was a tricky thing to get a handle on — 49 dead and another 53 wounded, so many of them members of a historically marginalized and persecuted group. How could they not have been targeted? To say that the attack was not “rooted in homophobia,” one commenter wrote in USA Today, was to “erase the LGBT community … causing only more pain by invalidating their experiences.”

Over the past two weeks in Orlando, Mateen’s widow, Noor Salman, was tried for having allegedly helped him plan his attack. The popular understanding of the Pulse shooting as a carefully targeted massacre was on trial as well. And in acquitting Salman, 31, on Friday, a jury also delivered a verdict on the story we’d told ourselves about the killings: We’d gotten it wrong.

In the wake of the shooting, the media and public focused on certain details, many of which were later determined to be unfounded, and discounted others, like Mateen’s own explanation for his actions. If Mateen had indeed been motivated by something other than homophobia, the grief and terror of the gay community were no less real and no less urgent for it. But the narrative that was repeated and turned into fact ― that Mateen had picked Pulse because of who its patrons were and what they represented ― had the effect of obscuring another, smaller injustice: the prosecution of Mateen’s wife.

Just replace a few words with words relevant to the latest shooting and a new article can be published in short order.

 

[Blazers46]

Taking anyone's life is terrible. The problem today, is if it is a white guy killing anyone but a straight white guy, it's automatically a racist hate crime. It makes for a much better story in the media's minds. We no longer have the patience to learn all of the facts before reacting.

Exactly.. I got a text of an active shooter in CO just now. I am sure if I get on social media the media and liberal minded are barking the white domestic terrorost narrative.

 

[ulukinatme]

Right, you can see how someone would think it's a hate crime though - 6 Asian women dead, and killer fetishized Asian women. No idea who makes the determination on what the threshold is for a hate crime, but seems like there evidence to suggest it was.

If the man had a fetish for Asian women, it sounds more like a crime of passion than hate, tbh. Probably no italics.

 

[Blazers46]

If the man had a fetish for Asian women, it sounds more like a crime of passion than hate, tbh. Probably no italics.

Even so the it seems the media and the liberal think tank including Toronto are convincing themselves he had fetish to somehow connect random dots to make it racial since there are zero bread crumbs leading to anything racial. If we can somehow connect race in anyway they will make an argument for a hate crime. But it’s just being reported he visited these places as an outlet because he felt they we’re a safe way to pay for sex.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Even so the it seems the media and the liberal think tank including Toronto are convincing themselves he had fetish to somehow connect random dots to make it racial since there are zero bread crumbs leading to anything racial. If we can somehow connect race in anyway they will make an argument for a hate crime. But it’s just being reported he visited these places as an outlet because he felt they we’re a safe way to pay for sex.

Because it’s always racial.

 

[NorthDakota]

If the man had a fetish for Asian women, it sounds more like a crime of passion than hate, tbh. Probably no italics.

• Ga. Code Ann. § 17-10-17: enhanced penalties "if the trier of fact determines beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally selected any victim or group of victims or any property as the object of the offense because of such victim's or group of victims' actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender, mental disability, or physical disability”

Reading the text looks like it would allow any crime done where the victim's were chosen for any of these specific reasons, whether chosen out of hate or sexual fetish or whatever.

Hate crimes seem a bit odd. I dont see a reason a guy who shoots 5 gay people because he's a homophobe should face more time than a guy who shoots 5 people he hates but each one is a different color/religion/etc.

 

[ND88]

• 
  
  Hate crimes seem a bit odd. I dont see a reason a guy who shoots 5 gay people because he's a homophobe should face more time than a guy who shoots 5 people he hates but each one is a different color/religion/etc.

• 
  
  Possibly as an attempt to deter the specific targeting of people based on the extreme hatred of someone’s sexual orientation (as the example you used).

 

[ND88]

The media doesn’t care if they are accurate anymore.

Which media? If you mean all media, I might agree. If you refer to the media that isn’t your media, well, that’s a different story.

 

[TorontoGold]

Even so the it seems the media and the liberal think tank including Toronto are convincing themselves he had fetish to somehow connect random dots to make it racial since there are zero bread crumbs leading to anything racial. If we can somehow connect race in anyway they will make an argument for a hate crime. But it’s just being reported he visited these places as an outlet because he felt they we’re a safe way to pay for sex.

I literally just said it's leaning for me towards it being a hate crime, I'm not going to pick up a (tiki) torch on this. 6 asian women dead is not "nothing" but I'm sure once an investigation in his computer and stuff comes back we'll know his motives more clearly. One of us is rushing to judgement here, and it isn't me.

 

[Blazers46]

I literally just said it's leaning for me towards it being a hate crime, I'm not going to pick up a (tiki) torch on this. 6 asian women dead is not "nothing" but I'm sure once an investigation in his computer and stuff comes back we'll know his motives more clearly. One of us is rushing to judgement here, and it isn't me.

Leaning that way Because of your made up fact that he had a fetish for Asian women?

What judgements have I made except there is no actual facts his motive was race related but the media and liberals have already “rushed to judgement”... my only judgement is on the rush to judgement.

 

[Irish#1]

I literally just said it's leaning for me towards it being a hate crime, I'm not going to pick up a (tiki) torch on this. 6 asian women dead is not "nothing" but I'm sure once an investigation in his computer and stuff comes back we'll know his motives more clearly. One of us is rushing to judgement here, and it isn't me.

Except, if it does come out this wasn't race related, the SJW's will protest loudly that the police are wrong.

I tend to wonder why we have hate crime laws. Someone hell bent on killing someone else is going to do it regardless. "Do I shoot the Pakistani at the convenience mart because he made me wear a mask in his store or that white mechanic who overcharged me for a brake job?" I highly doubt they would change their mind because there is a law against hate crimes.

 

[arahop]

Exactly.. I got a text of an active shooter in CO just now. I am sure if I get on social media the media and liberal minded are barking the white domestic terrorost narrative.

Bet they voted for Trump. Do you think they were for general welfare?

 

[Irish#1]

Exactly.. I got a text of an active shooter in CO just now. I am sure if I get on social media the media and liberal minded are barking the white domestic terrorost narrative.

No details on the shooter or motivation has been released yet. 10 died including a police officer who was the father of 7.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Except, if it does come out this wasn't race related, the SJW's will protest loudly that the police are wrong.

I tend to wonder why we have hate crime laws. Someone hell bent on killing someone else is going to do it regardless. "Do I shoot the Pakistani at the convenience mart because he made me wear a mask in his store or that white mechanic who overcharged me for a brake job?" I highly doubt they would change their mind because there is a law against hate crimes.

From my understanding, we have hate crime laws becasue of the need to deter what was once a very big problem. White people performing extrajudicial executions or committing violence against black people denying them their civil and constitutional rights. These are also called bias crimes becasue they are specifically carried out due to bias of race, nationality, and religion. While I admit this would be more difficult to prove today, it was very much easy to see back then ( from my grandparents and family who told me such stories when they were growing up in the south circa 1930s-1970s). They told me stories that downright hurt my soul and they told them as if it was matter of fact that that was the way it was.

Black people being pulled out of their house or cars and lynched for virtually no reason that could stand up in court. Stabbing/attacking them and their families them when they left the voting centers to deter them or their family from voting. Genuinely hate filled violence against their homes and churches or at their places of employment... these arent secrets and they occurred so much that Lyndon Johnson included in Title 1 of Civil Rights Act. These types of crimes are typically pre-meditated with malicious thought and are carried out to cause terror or deny due process. They are not simply a robbery gone wrong or an accidental crime of passion. From my understanding they were developed to deter these types of crimes by inflicting sever punishment's (this is a common way to deter unwarranted behavior is to make the punishment's so bad you choose not to do it, especially with premeditated crimes). I grew up around many family members that were racist as fuck and their thoughts on black people specifically are very hateful.

These laws were able to bust up the KKK to where they were almost non existent becasue being associated with them was very detrimental. In SC the KKK had a very large bank roll and property list which after multiple prosecutions, the government was able to seize and destroy their fundraising and properties becasue they were centers of planning and operations of hate crimes. I received a few KKK flyers in my mail a few years back as they seem to be recruiting again.

 

[arahop]

Except, if it does come out this wasn't race related, the SJW's will protest loudly that the police are wrong.

I tend to wonder why we have hate crime laws. Someone hell bent on killing someone else is going to do it regardless. "Do I shoot the Pakistani at the convenience mart because he made me wear a mask in his store or that white mechanic who overcharged me for a brake job?" I highly doubt they would change their mind because there is a law against hate crimes.

Really??
Monkey see monkey do. The reason for these laws is simple. To try and deter hate crimes and making sure that the general public knows that they won't be tolerated. Is it perfect solution no.
I love the constant normalization and defending on here.
. It always comes from those that lean with at least a bit of hate in their hearts.
It almost always is a white male. If you aren't against hate crimes then you are for them. There isn't a gray area.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Really??
Monkey see monkey do. The reason for these laws is simple. To try and deter hate crimes and making sure that the general public knows that they won't be tolerated. Is it perfect solution no.
I love the constant normalization and defending on here.
. It always comes from those that lean with at least a bit of hate in their hearts.
It almost always is a white male. If you aren't against hate crimes then you are for them. There isn't a gray area.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. The guys who physically abuse their wives stopped altogether when Congress passed the "Violence Against Women Act." Prior to that, they thought it was OK and it was open season on roughing up the wives.

We have equal protection under the law as US citizens because if person A commits a crime against person B, it is illegal regardless of race.

 

[MNIrishman]

Really??
Monkey see monkey do. The reason for these laws is simple. To try and deter hate crimes and making sure that the general public knows that they won't be tolerated. Is it perfect solution no.
I love the constant normalization and defending on here.
. It always comes from those that lean with at least a bit of hate in their hearts.
It almost always is a white male. If you aren't against hate crimes then you are for them. There isn't a gray area.

This is completely nonsensical. These laws are unevenly and arbitrarily applied. "You're either with me, or you're my enemy...." It's like Anakin Skywalker is defending this garbage and acting like he has the high ground. People are either equal under the law...or not.

 

[TorontoGold]

Leaning that way Because of your made up fact that he had a fetish for Asian women?

What judgements have I made except there is no actual facts his motive was race related but the media and liberals have already “rushed to judgement”... my only judgement is on the rush to judgement.

It's not hard to connect the dots Asian women have been pretty sexualized (ex. think Full Metal Jacket) and the guy claims he had a sex addiction. Oh, and six people of the same race are dead. Anyways, I'll wait until there is actually a ruling on this before screaming and @'ing people.

You were the first person to post on the board, and highlighted my comment about feeling defensive. Talk about telling on yourself.

 

[GowerND11]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. The guys who physically abuse their wives stopped altogether when Congress passed the "Violence Against Women Act." Prior to that, they thought it was OK and it was open season on roughing up the wives.

We have equal protection under the law as US citizens because if person A commits a crime against person B, it is illegal regardless of race.

Except, you had people literally walk home with no charges after lynchings. You had people openly defending teenage boys for the murder of classmates that were gay in "fag drags" and such...

 

[NorthDakota]

Really??
Monkey see monkey do. The reason for these laws is simple. To try and deter hate crimes and making sure that the general public knows that they won't be tolerated. Is it perfect solution no.
I love the constant normalization and defending on here.
. It always comes from those that lean with at least a bit of hate in their hearts.
It almost always is a white male. If you aren't against hate crimes then you are for them. There isn't a gray area.

Lol Jesus.

For certain things, I'm perfectly fine throwing the book at someone harder. An example being a burning cross in a yard or spray painting a Swastika on a synagogue. Those go beyond regular vandalism or whatever.

But who should get in more trouble, the guy who murders 10 people indiscriminately or 10 people discriminately? I dont see much utility or logic behind the hitting the latter harder than the former.

And "if you aren't against hate crimes you support them"....what the hell does that even mean?

 

[NorthDakota]

Except, you had people literally walk home with no charges after lynchings. You had people openly defending teenage boys for the murder of classmates that were gay in "fag drags" and such...

Under a hate crime situation, if you walked home with no charges sans hate crime statutes, you'd still walk home with no charges with hate crime statutes as well it looks like.

 

[GowerND11]

Under a hate crime situation, if you walked home with no charges sans hate crime statutes, you'd still walk home with no charges with hate crime statutes as well it looks like.

It's about getting charges to stick. I agree that things can get fuzzy quick, but the intent is to make it harder to walk because of others within the community also being racist, homophobic, anti semitic, etc.

 

[Blazers46]

Really??
Monkey see monkey do. The reason for these laws is simple. To try and deter hate crimes and making sure that the general public knows that they won't be tolerated. Is it perfect solution no.
I love the constant normalization and defending on here.
. It always comes from those that lean with at least a bit of hate in their hearts.
It almost always is a white male. If you aren't against hate crimes then you are for them. There isn't a gray area.

I think people forget white people are the overwhelming majority. White people commit most crimes, its a statistically anomaly if they didn't in certain categories (like homocide rates). Males in general commit more crimes than women so statistically most crimes should be committed by white males... statistically speaking. That and good luck trying to get a judge or prosecuters to charge a minority with, for example, a racist hate crime.

 

[Blazers46]

It's not hard to connect the dots Asian women have been pretty sexualized (ex. think Full Metal Jacket) and the guy claims he had a sex addiction. Oh, and six people of the same race are dead. Anyways, I'll wait until there is actually a ruling on this before screaming and @'ing people.

You were the first person to post on the board, and highlighted my comment about feeling defensive. Talk about telling on yourself.

So posting first means what? Is this like "whoever smelt it, dealt it"? I brought it up to highlight your comment as it relates to people getting defensive. As you may have saw all the people running to be on the offensive and run with their anti white narratives. Laws and culture are changing as a whole based on false narratives. Black people commit more hate crimes on Asians than white people but now we have this faux united front against mean whitey and white supremacy. We literally have black men killing Asians simply because they are Asian and NO OTHER REASON. Barely any coverage. We get a white man who claims he shot 8 people because of a sex addiction. His story is backed up by friends, acquaintances, and other people and its another white national emergency since whiteness is a pandemic apparently in this country. How do you not get defensive with critical race theory and headlines and articles saying your whiteness is a pandemic? Be less white... yup nothing to see here.

 

[NorthDakota]

It's about getting charges to stick. I agree that things can get fuzzy quick, but the intent is to make it harder to walk because of others within the community also being racist, homophobic, anti semitic, etc.

I think it is actually the opposite, or I'm misunderstanding your post. Because with no conviction, there is no hate crime, at least thats how the Georgia one read to me.

1. Charge
2. Convict?
3. If yes, was it a hate crime?
4. If yes, harsher sentencing.

just glancing at other states, it looks like it varies quite a bit from state to state,, and more than one have been found unconstitutional in the past.

 

[TorontoGold]

So posting first means what? Is this like "whoever smelt it, dealt it"? I brought it up to highlight your comment as it relates to people getting defensive. As you may have saw all the people running to be on the offensive and run with their anti white narratives. Laws and culture are changing as a whole based on false narratives. Black people commit more hate crimes on Asians than white people but now we have this faux united front against mean whitey and white supremacy. We literally have black men killing Asians simply because they are Asian and NO OTHER REASON. Barely any coverage. We get a white man who claims he shot 8 people because of a sex addiction. His story is backed up by friends, acquaintances, and other people and its another white national emergency since whiteness is a pandemic apparently in this country. How do you not get defensive with critical race theory and headlines and articles saying your whiteness is a pandemic? Be less white... yup nothing to see here.

In your opinion which laws/culture are changing for the worse in your opinion?

Personally, I don't get upset because I know there's white trash out there that makes me look bad and anything that highlights them as garbage is good. I mean, we have people in rural Ontario flying confederate flags that piss their pants when people call them out for it. I can guarantee you some Letterkenny ass is not just a "southern pride" loving good ol'boy.

Nobody is saying be less white, it's likely they're asking you to re-examine your views to see if there is some possible subconscious bias towards a certain race based on old tropes.

 

[Wild Bill]

In your opinion which laws/culture are changing for the worse in your opinion?

Personally, I don't get upset because I know there's white trash out there that makes me look bad and anything that highlights them as garbage is good. I mean, we have people in rural Ontario flying confederate flags that piss their pants when people call them out for it. I can guarantee you some Letterkenny ass is not just a "southern pride" loving good ol'boy.

Nobody is saying be less white, it's likely they're asking you to re-examine your views to see if there is some possible subconscious bias towards a certain race based on old tropes.

You may benefit from examining your views to see if there is some subconscious bias towards white people who are less fortunate than you.

 

[TorontoGold]

You may benefit from examining your views to see if there is some subconscious bias towards white people who are less fortunate than you.

That is a fair point. Most of my policy positions have been based in the aim of helping poor people, which would include less fortunate white people.

 

[Blazers46]

In your opinion which laws/culture are changing for the worse in your opinion?

Personally, I don't get upset because I know there's white trash out there that makes me look bad and anything that highlights them as garbage is good. I mean, we have people in rural Ontario flying confederate flags that piss their pants when people call them out for it. I can guarantee you some Letterkenny ass is not just a "southern pride" loving good ol'boy.

Nobody is saying be less white, it's likely they're asking you to re-examine your views to see if there is some possible subconscious bias towards a certain race based on old tropes.

At least you agree it makes YOU look bad. So when false narratives and faux racism stories get circulated you would probably agree that also makes YOU look bad. The problem in this statement is people don't necessarily care about making THEM look bad. They have an agenda to make everyone like him look bad... which would include you.

Laws/culture - Here is just a recent example. When we signed up for grants and state funding they all do things differently. In our city have had a few rounds of grant money for small business. The first time we got rejected. The second time we only recieved like $1500, the third time we recieved $10,000. At the guidance of a neighbor/friend that works with city/state government he suggested I check yes on the box that says I am a part of a historically oppressed demographic. I only checked this box on the third instance. I asked why checking that box made such a huge difference and he just said "haha, I think its obvious but my official answer is no comment". When I ask around some business owners received zero and some received up to $20,000 or more. There is a lady that makes burritos out of her house and drives from business to business offering burritos and a 12oz coke for $5 that recieved $20,000. I highly doubt she has a better accountant than I do, but I bet she checked the right box.

Coca-Cola is saying be less white. Yahoo published an article stating whiteness is pandemic. Its all over man.

Being white apparently means you are arrogant, too certain, too defensive, not humble, apathetic, and too united.

Whiteness is a pandemic
https://sports.yahoo.com/whiteness-pandemic-170000715.html

COCA-COLA DIVERSITY TRAINING PROGRAM TELLS EMPLOYEES TO ‘BE LESS WHITE’
https://www.blackenterprise.com/coca-cola-diversity-training-program-tells-employees-to-be-less-white/

PowerPoint slides from the Coca-Cola training seminar featured tips on how to tone down whiteness. The tips included “be less arrogant, be less certain, be less defensive, be more humble, listen, believe, break with apathy,” and “break with white solidarity.”https://www.blackenterprise.com/coc...ing-program-tells-employees-to-be-less-white/

https://www.blackenterprise.com/coc...ing-program-tells-employees-to-be-less-white/

Being white apparently means you are arrogant, too certain, too defensive, not humble, apathetic, and too united. It doesn't say some white people, it doesnt specifically say white trash... be less white.

What color are you Toronto? If you are white, can you kindly be less of it?