Crist vs Rees

[GoldenDomer2357]

Look, I said it from the beginning of camp, how can you go against a guy who takes a 4-5 team, and rattles off four straight wins to end the season? INCLUDING a win over #15 Utah, Miami in the Sun Bowl, and IMO the biggest win in my lifetime (19 years), U$C for the first time in nine years! (I was 12 when the infamous 'Bush Push' happened and I cried and cried and cried because the time had run out and Petey boy's son ran down to call a timeout when they had none left)

Anyway, this is a great thing! Tommy is going to lead this offense for the rest of the season, and there is no reason this team can't take 9 of the last 11, I wouldn't even be surprised if they win out, a longshot, but hey in the words of the great John Lennon,"You may say that I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one."

Yeah you aren't the only one for sure. I feel like every week of Irish football whether it be a loss or a win, I convince myself they are going to win out and shock the NCAA football world.

 

[IrishLax]

Rees has a better comp % in 2010, better passer rating... 1 more pick, but ZERO losses.

Technically, as a starter he has no losses. However, he played the vast majority of the Tulsa game against one of the worst pass defenses in the country and lost us that game. So let's all please not act like Tommy walks on water. He played really, really poorly against both Tulsa and USC... but I don't fault him for Tulsa because he probably didn't get a lot of 1st team reps. On the other hand, if Dayne turned the ball over 4 times against USC people would've lynch mobbed him... but for Tommy it's OK and glossed over for some reason.

As for completion percentage, passer rating, etc.... yeah, they're about comparable. He had a 2% better completion percentage, less yards per attempt, 1.5:1 TD to INT ratio versus Crist's 2.1:1 ratio, and his rating was 3 points higher. He also can't run the ball (both designed zone read, scrambling and things like QB sneaks with his slight frame) whereas Crist contributed 4 TDs on the ground and hundreds of yards rushing (although sacks negate a lot of those yards he did earn).

Again, if you're looking at it in a 1 game bubble and had to choose one guy to play from start to finish I'd choose Tommy. He showed the ability to deliver the ball quickly and accurately and push it down the field better than he could last year. But games aren't played inside a bubble, and what worries me is the scenario where Tommy comes out and plays poorly. You have lots of contingency plans if you enter that scenario with Dayne, and you KNOW Tommy can come off the bench and play well. But it is completely uncharted territory going with Tommy as "the guy" to start the game.
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Clearly, most people think Tommy should start. It's almost impossible to argue with considering how much better Tommy played the other day in pure passing situations with no threat of the run. Logically, it's hard to argue with the guy who throws for 300 yards in a half. I'm just saying what I would personally do in Kelly's shoes... and that's start Dayne again with a short leash because one half of football sure seems like a small sample size for an audition and you know Tommy can come in and play well whenever you call on him. Then again, this is why we need to schedule some freaking tune-up games to let people make mistakes and ease their way into the season. Look at how poorly Alabama's QBs played the other day... but luckily it was against Kent State and the game was over before they got off the bus. If that opener was against Penn State they might have lost just because of their QB play.

Good going, Swarbick.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Crist v. Rees: Breaking Down Tommy's Throws

Great analysis by Keith Arnold. Highly recommended.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Could there be a little Bledsoe/Brady thing with Crist and Rees (obviously on a proportional scale; Rees is not Brady, but Crist isn't Bledsoe, either)? The prototype vs. the underdog? The #1 Pic/5 vs. the 6th rounder/3? Maybe Rees really is better than I think he is, like Brady turned out to be. Or maybe I'm trying too hard to talk myself into the Rees era.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Could there be a little Bledsoe/Brady thing with Crist and Rees (obviously on a proportional scale; Rees is not Brady, but Crist isn't Bledsoe, either)? The prototype vs. the underdog? The #1 Pic/5 vs. the 6th rounder/3? Maybe Rees really is better than I think he is, like Brady turned out to be. Or maybe I'm trying too hard to talk myself into the Rees era.

Here's hoping it's both...

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Crist v. Rees: Breaking Down Tommy's Throws

Great analysis by Keith Arnold. Highly recommended.

After watching that video.. It makes me even more confident in Rees starting Saturday.

He really looks comfortable in the pocket, granted USF was only rushing three at the time. But still, he was hitting targets and moving the ball .

If Riddick can have a better game against UM and the rushing attack is there.. We win by at least 10.

 

[IrishMoore1]

Technically, as a starter he has no losses. However, he played the vast majority of the Tulsa game against one of the worst pass defenses in the country and lost us that game. So let's all please not act like Tommy walks on water. He played really, really poorly against both Tulsa and USC... but I don't fault him for Tulsa because he probably didn't get a lot of 1st team reps. On the other hand, if Dayne turned the ball over 4 times against USC people would've lynch mobbed him... but for Tommy it's OK and glossed over for some reason.

Tommy also played against a #2 pass defense of the Miami Hurricanes...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Mike Frank during Power Hour on September 5, 2011:

When you bring up the Dayne thing...and i'm not trying to make excuses...and i say this over and over and over because i really believe that this is the issue and this is the truth of the matter: I would like to see an actual breakdown of how many live plays from high school to college that Tommy Rees has actually experienced and how many Dayne has. I'm going to guess it's probably four to one...Tommy has four times as many live plays then Dayne has when it comes to actual plays at a live game speed. And you can't discount how important that is.

 

[Carlyle Javar Holiday]

Looking at how well the defense played last year for Rees, it is fairly obvious that it was not his doing so long as he took care of the ball. I mean the USC game alone should not have as close as it was due to the interceptions Rees threw.

I am confident in saying that with the defense playing how they played down the stretch for Rees, Crist would have won those games as well. I mean Utah scored 3 points, Army scored 3 points, USC scored 16 points and Miami game was a blowout from the beginning.

Not saying Rees isn't our guy but Crist the stats are pretty skewed. Defense won thoses games with a conservative passing game.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I am confident in saying that with the defense playing how they played down the stretch for Rees, Crist would have won those games as well. I mean Utah scored 3 points, Army scored 3 points, USC scored 16 points and Miami game was a blowout from the beginning.

I've made this same argument before, but after the USF game, I'm not confident Crist would have led us to victory against USC last season.

 

[ErieIrish13]

I've made this same argument before, but after the USF game, I'm not confident Crist would have led us to victory against USC last season.

I wouldn't exactly say Tommy led us to victory against USC. He played terrible that game. But a win is a win, and stats don't matter.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I wouldn't exactly say Tommy led us to victory against USC. He played terrible that game. But a win is a win, and stats don't matter.

I wasn't implying that Tommy won the game for us; that was his worst game by a large margin.

I'm just not sure I buy the "Of course Dayne would have beat USC with that defense and running game" argument anymore. He had the defense and running game against USF, but he still fell apart in the 2nd quarter.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I've made this same argument before, but after the USF game, I'm not confident Crist would have led us to victory against USC last season.

I wouldn't exactly say Tommy led us to victory against USC. He played terrible that game. But a win is a win, and stats don't matter.

Well, the real question is: Do you believe Dayne would have driven the offense down the field for the go-ahead and eventual winning score?

 

[RUDYRUDY]

Stats don't mean jack, Who wins, thats all that matters. I like Tommy,

 

[IrishMoore1]

ESPN article on Rees:

Tommy Rees growing up fast to lead Irish - Notre Dame Football Blog - ESPN

quote that caught my eye:

Offensive coordinator Charley Molnar said Rees broke down every play from the first half of the Fighting Irish's loss to South Florida flawlessly -- all the more striking since Rees didn't take a snap until the third quarter.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

ESPN article on Rees:

Tommy Rees growing up fast to lead Irish - Notre Dame Football Blog - ESPN

quote that caught my eye:

I read stuff like that and start wondering what BK saw in Crist to not give Tommy the season opening nod. Maybe BK just went with the notion that Crist had a better chance of extending plays or something.

I think he knows now that there is a "practice" Crist and a "pressure cooker" Crist. Let's hope Tommy gets psyched up and takes advantage of this spotlight opportunity. I am confident that he will have a hell of a game.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I read stuff like that and start wondering what BK saw in Crist to not give Tommy the season opening nod. Maybe BK just went with the notion that Crist had a better chance of extending plays or something.

If Rees and Crist were each in the other's shoes last Saturday, Kelly would be getting criticized for losing the game by not going with Crist sooner. Since it went the way it was "supposed" to, no one faults Kelly.

 

[IrishMoore1]

If Rees was in Crist's shoes, we might not be 0-1.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If Rees was in Crist's shoes, we might not be 0-1.

I agree, but have you read any criticism directed toward Kelly for not picking Rees as the starter?

 

[IrishMoore1]

Oh it's definitely Kelly's fault as well when it comes to picking the right quarterback. It's just that no one expects Tommy (3 star, sophomore) to beat out Crist (5 star, senior) for the starting job.

 

[koonja]

I think we're putting way too much emphasis on one bad half in the first game of the year. I think Tommy should start at Michigan, but there's a reason BK chose Crist to start for this football team. It's not like hindsight is already 20-20 on this one. One half of the first game doesn't prove that you 'can't handle the moment'. At least not in my opinion.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Oh it's definitely Kelly's fault as well when it comes to picking the right quarterback. It's just that no one expects Tommy (3 star, sophomore) to beat out Crist (5 star, senior) for the starting job.

I didn't ask if you thought it was his fault. I asked if you'd read any criticism to that effect. I haven't, and I've read everything that's come across my twitter feed on the subject.

You touched on the reason in your second sentence; our expectations, no matter how off-base, effect who we blame when things go wrong. Kelly conformed to everyone's expectations when 5 Crist was named the start. Crist struggled, 3 Rees comes in at the half, and nearly produces an amazing come-from-behind victory. No one blames Kelly for starting Crist.

Now reverse that. Kelly defies expectations by starting Rees. He's now out on a limb. Rees starts and struggles. Crist comes in after the half and nearly produces an amazing come-from-behind victory. In that situation, everyone attributes the loss to Kelly's picking the wrong QB.

I think his choice was influenced by public expectation, and I can't really blame him. We probably win the game if Rees starts, but that would have been a much riskier choice for Kelly.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I read stuff like that and start wondering what BK saw in Crist to not give Tommy the season opening nod. Maybe BK just went with the notion that Crist had a better chance of extending plays or something.

I think he knows now that there is a "practice" Crist and a "pressure cooker" Crist. Let's hope Tommy gets psyched up and takes advantage of this spotlight opportunity. I am confident that he will have a hell of a game.

If Rees and Crist were each in the other's shoes last Saturday, Kelly would be getting criticized for losing the game by not going with Crist sooner. Since it went the way it was "supposed" to, no one faults Kelly.

I agree. The safer pick was Crist and you're right.. He's not getting any criticism for not starting Rees.

That is the problem with QB controversies. I will say though, if Tommy comes out and wins this game I will force myself not come back to USF and harp on what should have been..

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I feel like people judge Tommy as if he was a Junior QB, he was a true freshman QB last season and did extremely well, and gets better every game. Sure he made some bad throws, but what freshman wouldn't have? Now, he has grown up physically, and still is getting better. Tommy is nowhere near his ceiling, and his persistence in being a student of the game is second to none. Tommy is hands down better then Dayne. It's not like Dayne ever lit the world on fire, the only thing he's got is that he was a 5 star recruit.

 

[Carlyle Javar Holiday]

I've made this same argument before, but after the USF game, I'm not confident Crist would have led us to victory against USC last season.

Rees turnovers led to many of USC's points. I say the game is not close if we give Crist a conservative game plan, like short passes and safe passes on the outside.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Rees turnovers led to many of USC's points. I say the game is not close if we give Crist a conservative game plan, like short passes and safe passes on the outside.

Because Crist really excelled at those throws last season.

He still has issues with being decisive, getting the ball out fast, and putting some touch on it. I'm not saying Crist couldn't have won that game for us; it just doesn't seem obvious that he would have done better with that conservative game plan after the USF debacle.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Rees turnovers led to many of USC's points. I say the game is not close if we give Crist a conservative game plan, like short passes and safe passes on the outside.

Based on what? What has he ever done on the field to make you feel confident he can win, and carry a team on his back?

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

So can we say the qb competition is open again for next week's game? Tonight's loss wasn't Tommy's fault, in fact he is probably the hero if the defense holds on for the win...

But this team needs a game changer at qb. Tommy is good, but I just don't feel he is THE guy. I'm not sure Dayne is the answer, but I think he deserves a second chance. I am curious to see what Hendrix, or even Golson, would look like in this offense too.

Now that the season is in shambles I would like to see Kelly experiment a little and find an identity on offense.

 

[bdes]

So can we say the qb competition is open again for next week's game? Tonight's loss wasn't Tommy's fault, in fact he is probably the hero if the defense holds on for the win...

But this team needs a game changer at qb. Tommy is good, but I just don't feel he is THE guy. I'm not sure Dayne is the answer, but I think he deserves a second chance. I am curious to see what Hendrix, or even Golson, would look like in this offense too.

Now that the season is in shambles I would like to see Kelly experiment a little and find an identity on offense.

This..

Tommy Rees is clutch but I just feel like he should be a back-up. I wanna see what the guys who haven't had their shot yet got. All I hear is good about Andrew Hendrix, and Golson would be awesome to see on the field with his speed. Maybe that's the spark that could make the BCS push not to mention one of them can make good decisions with the ball.

 

[Riddickulous]

So can we say the qb competition is open again for next week's game? Tonight's loss wasn't Tommy's fault, in fact he is probably the hero if the defense holds on for the win...

But this team needs a game changer at qb. Tommy is good, but I just don't feel he is THE guy. I'm not sure Dayne is the answer, but I think he deserves a second chance. I am curious to see what Hendrix, or even Golson, would look like in this offense too.

Now that the season is in shambles I would like to see Kelly experiment a little and find an identity on offense.

I think you have to go with Tommy for the rest of the year and then open it up in spring ball.