Crazy Recruiting Sagas

[ClausentoTate]

You forgot Ishaq's saga. It was epic... in a very good way.

 

[IrishLax]

You forgot Ishaq's saga. It was epic... in a very good way.

Actually mention that in the opening paragraph. Didn't know whether to include it or not because, when you break it down to brass tax, you simply had a kid commit to a school and stick with it.

 

[LoveThee]

jamel james comes to mind

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

james james comes to mind

Yeah him and John John and Bob Bob

 

[Ironman8]

Yeah him and John John and Bob Bob

You are on fire today.

En fuego.

 

[ACamp1900]

Did we ever recruit Marky Mark???

 

[scUM Hater]

Not to mention:

 

[Grahambo]

Would anybody count Taylor Decker?

 

[LoveThee]

Yeah him and John John and Bob Bob

Ha good catch. I edited it

 

[aaronb]

Kapron is probably the one exception recently to this. Surprise last commit on NSD from A&M, stayed 5 years and became a Captain and stalwart.

Jonas Gray was another A&M last minute de-commit that ended up having a great Irish career.

 

[phork]

My problem with this is ND seems to just get out of one hole then we fall into the next one. And while this might happen everywhere and all of us who are college football fanatics can see that, everywhere else is not ND. As such they don't get front page press like ND does.

This stuff sounds bad in the press because while we here are mostly sure why they left, the rumour mongers are in full force with any information they can sink their teeth into and spreading it with reckless abandon.

 

[ulukinatme]

Weis had his share of decommits too. I'm not sure they were on par or worse than Kelly's though. You can look at the 2007 season as an example. We started with Demetrius Jones at the beginning of the season at QB, he got benched after the first game and ended up transferring. Zach Frazier was another QB that same year, 3rd or 4th on the depth chart I think and he left for more playing time. That was like...half our QBs in the same season.

You run into this issue when big time recruits find they either can't move up in the depth chart soon enough. Some players turn out to be not as good as advertised or don't put the effort in at the next level. That leaves them with two options: stay and ride it out on the bench for another year or two until the talent ahead of you graduates, or sit out a year somewhere else where you have a better chance at a fresh start. I haven't watched that many practice videos so I can't say how far Neal was behind the starters, but you have to figure that he would have had a good shot to work his way in after next year once TJ was out of the mix. Maybe this is really all about moving back to be closer to the GF and the baby? Who knows, but either way it looks like he would have to wait a year before he'd get to start on offense.

 

[Kak7304]

I dont recall this type of stuff under Weis or Willingham. Certainly not during Davie or Holtz, but media was different back then.

Willingham avoided recruiting drama by simply not recruiting.

 

[IrishLax]

Weis had tons of high profile transfers. Reuland, Carufel, Jones, Frazier, etc. etc.
This is a thing for every program out there. Alabama loses about 6 guys a year and most are 4 stars.

The only one that's a true bummer is Neal. I feel about him the same way I felt about Shaq Evans when he left... that he had potential. Frankly, I expected Kiel and honestly it's more of a commentary on how GOOD our QB situation is that he is leaving. Ferguson is just another guy who was likely to struggle cracking the depth chart for significant minutes barring a rash of injuries.

 

[Bishop2b5]

It flat out is a disadvantage to ND right now. We can't fill a hole here or there with a JUCO and we can't overload recruiting classes to help mitigate transfers. Every kid signed is a hope and pray he sticks around all 4 or 5 yrs. situation. You don't lose the talent ND has lost and not feel it in some aspect during the rigors of a season.

Why does ND not recruit JUCO's? I'm assuming it's because most don't meet academic standards, but surely some do, or are there other reasons?

 

[Rack Em]

Why does ND not recruit JUCO's? I'm assuming it's because most don't meet academic standards, but surely some do, or are there other reasons?

Yeah that's basically it. And we rarely get transfers because they would have to have certain requirements met by the time they would transfer (I don't know about other schools but ND has a policy where you can't transfer in after completing 4 semesters in college - I'm pretty sure this is the same policy for athletes too).

 

[IrishLax]

Why does ND not recruit JUCO's? I'm assuming it's because most don't meet academic standards, but surely some do, or are there other reasons?

ND only takes kids they are very confident can handle the academic workload and graduate in 4 years. All 5th year players have to apply to graduate school and be accepted and be taking a full graduate school course load.

So a very large percentage of JUCOs end up there out of HS because they couldn't make NCAA minimums, much less the ND minimums. Then those that end up there for other reasons basically end up so far behind in the coursework needed to graduate from ND (i.e. the credits don't transfer... heck, credits from a large amount of legitimate 4 year schools don't transfer) that they wouldn't be able to complete their degree in 4 years. So effectively 100% of JUCO players can't get past admissions because they wouldn't be able to graduate in the 4 year window.

The single biggest thing holding back Notre Dame is an inability to recruit JUCOs to plug holes as they arise. The next biggest is core course/GPA requirements that cost us about 3 kids a class (the biggest one is usually foreign languages... if a kid doesn't have enough foreign language credits he's an automatic no go. The next biggest is math.). Finally, on principle not oversigning cause us to be short 3-5 spots every single year when kids transfer in spring ball.

I'm sure Alabama will still have 85 contributing players on scholarship come fall despite the following occurring after NSD:
-4 players getting kicked out for the robbery thing
-X amount of natural transfers.

At ND, we'd be at 81 base minus the transfers because we stupidly never recruit over the 85 limit. We effectively put ourselves on USC level sanctions every single year for "ethics" and "academics". It's wonderful.

 

[Cackalacky]

Weis had tons of high profile transfers. Reuland, Carufel, Jones, Frazier, etc. etc.
This is a thing for every program out there. Alabama loses about 6 guys a year and most are 4 stars.

The only one that's a true bummer is Neal. I feel about him the same way I felt about Shaq Evans when he left... that he had potential. Frankly, I expected Kiel and honestly it's more of a commentary on how GOOD our QB situation is that he is leaving. Ferguson is just another guy who was likely to struggle cracking the depth chart for significant minutes barring a rash of injuries.

I was intending to infer the dramatic commits and de-commits. Of course Weis had lots of transfers out/ in, but nothing like what has happened under Kelly. As soon as Weis put out the all front blitz on getting Jimmy, then gave DJ...what 1 half before pulling him..... I figured DJ ws gone, kind of surprised by Frazier in the end. We also had Fauria, Yeatman.. .blah...blah...

I do think Kelly and co. are taking some chances and swinging for the fences. I like it, but it obviously has its downside.

I think its time to reopen the discussion on over-signing while maintaining NDs integrity.

 

[EddytoNow]

I think the thing is we are getting ELITE talent who have been told how good they are since forever and reality sets in that they have to put the work in and move up the depth chart to play. Alot of these kids were the best talent on the football field in high school and now are surrounded with equal talent, they think transferring will make things easier at another school ( which it may). Not saying this is every kid that commits to ND's situation but who knows

I agree totally with this. It probably accounts for the vast majority of transfers across the country.

 

[IndyIrishFan1]

I came across this blog post from Coby Fleener about his recruitment, and I thought the IE community would find it interesting.

Getting a Scholarship, Playing the Games Before the Games | Coby Fleener's Blog

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I came across this blog post from Coby Fleener about his recruitment, and I thought the IE community would find it interesting.

Getting a Scholarship, Playing the Games Before the Games | Coby Fleener's Blog

His cousin is Zac Kustok?

 

[Irish#1]

I don't spend time on other schools boards, but I would guess this is fairly common at the top schools.

 

[stlnd01]

Transfers and such have always happened.
There was a class during the Davie years - maybe the last Holtz recruiting class or the transition year - when something like two-thirds of kids who signed LOIs had transferred/dropped out/suffered career-ending injuries by the time they were seniors. I remember a big spread in The Observer noting them all (I was a student at the time)

The difference isn't Kelly, or "kids today." It may have something to do with the instability of modern-day college coaching staffs (the continuity of assistants under Kelly thus far is actually quite impressive). Or something to do with national recruiting in an age of helicopter parents and teenage dads (seems like most of our transfers are Florida or West Coast kids, with distance and culture often at issue).
The difference is we all know and hear about it now, thanks to the message boards and Twitter feeds and 18 blogs covering Notre Dame football and the recruiting news industry, etc. The echo chamber.

 

[dublinirish]

no love for Derreck Roback? Spencer Boyd?

 

[ND101]

When Omar Hunter decomitted this whole board about shut down.