Crazy Recruiting Sagas

[IrishLax]

By my count, every single one of them since BK's first full class in '11 has either left ND at the 11th hour or transferred after signing with ND... the only exception being (don't worry, I knocked on wood) Stephon Tuitt. You could maybe throw Ishaq in there too (knocking on wood for him now too) but his story was more "unique" than crazy and he didn't flop around to multiple schools or pull any stunts so I don't think you can put him in there.

2011
Aaron Lynch -> ND to FSU to ND to South Florida
Stephon Tuitt -> ND to GT for less than 24 hours to ND... still here
Jordan Prestwood -> ND to FSU EE to ND transfer to transfer out of ND because of academics

2012
Deontay Greenberry -> ND to almost USC to Houston on NSD
Tee Shephard -> ND to almost USC to ND EE to transfer because of some sort of academic issue
Gunner Kiel -> IU to LSU to last minute flip to ND EE to transfer out
Davonte Neal -> doesn't sign on NSD to misses his own press conference to ND to transfer out to be with his kid

2013
Alex Anzalone -> Ohio State to ND to almost decommit to issues statement reaffirming commitment to ND to decommits the day before he is supposed to EE and ends up at Florida

Am I forgetting anyone? There is definitely a correlation between kids who can't make up their mind/lack conviction in their decisions and eventual transfers. Almost 90% of the kids in this admittedly small sample didn't end up finishing their careers at ND. The good news is that the only person in the 2013 class I can think of that this applies to would maybe be Folston who was sort of all over the map at the end... but that's a stretch. The vast majority of guys in that class who signed didn't waiver one iota at any point.

 

[NDPhilly]

Greg Bryant was pretty crazy. Had us in his top 3 before he committed. Decommitted. Heard nothing from him until December. Within a week he was committed. Just doesnt happen with 5 star players.

 

[Ironman8]

Kapron is probably the one exception recently to this. Surprise last commit on NSD from A&M, stayed 5 years and became a Captain and stalwart.

 

[IrishLax]

Greg Bryant was pretty crazy. Had us in his top 3 before he committed. Decommitted. Heard nothing from him until December. Within a week he was committed. Just doesnt happen with 5 star players.

But that's just a 1 to 1 change of commitment. That kind of thing happens all the time. Committed to Oklahoma, opened it back up, had a good visit to ND.... pretty standard. Not really any different than Redfield or Vanderdoes (who we also came out of nowhere for after not even making his initial top 15).

 

[Rack Em]

There's also a correlation between those years and our record. Winning keeps recruits happy.

 

[Ironman8]

There's also a correlation between those years and our record. Winning keeps recruits happy.

We are coming off an undefeated regular season and have 3 in the spring. Not really getting your point here haha.

 

[gkautz10]

We are coming off an undefeated regular season and have 3 in the spring. Not really getting your point here haha.

outlier

 

[Cackalacky]

I dont recall this type of stuff under Weis or Willingham. Certainly not during Davie or Holtz, but media was different back then.

 

[gkautz10]

I dont recall this type of stuff under Weis or Willingham. Certainly not during Davie or Holtz, but media was different back then.

Under Willingham, he was too busy out golfing to announce/worry about this sort of thing (he would make a damn good president) and Weis only got good offensive players and sold them hard on the school and the metal and jewels on his fingers. High risk high reward and potential for huge failure

 

[Rack Em]

We are coming off an undefeated regular season and have 3 in the spring. Not really getting your point here haha.

Yeah I'm an idiot. It made sense in my mind, but doesn't make sense in reality.

 

[rikkitikki08]

I think the thing is we are getting ELITE talent who have been told how good they are since forever and reality sets in that they have to put the work in and move up the depth chart to play. Alot of these kids were the best talent on the football field in high school and now are surrounded with equal talent, they think transferring will make things easier at another school ( which it may). Not saying this is every kid that commits to ND's situation but who knows

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

Is this a by product of our (entitlement) society? What I mean is that alot of recruits talk the "academic" importance yet when they get to ND it is a reality check? Just a thought.....

 

[Emcee77]

Kapron is probably the one exception recently to this. Surprise last commit on NSD from A&M, stayed 5 years and became a Captain and stalwart.

True, good call. He was actually a silent commit to us for a while, wasn't he? I remember Jason saying that he had a really hard time keeping a lid on the news that KLM had dropped A&M and committed to us, but had to do it because he received the info in confidence.

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't really see how Tee's recruitment was dramatic. I mean we were always getting worked up about rumors, but he committed and stayed committed.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think the thing is we are getting ELITE talent who have been told how good they are since forever and reality sets in that they have to put the work in and move up the depth chart to play. Alot of these kids were the best talent on the football field in high school and now are surrounded with equal talent, they think transferring will make things easier at another school ( which it may). Not saying this is every kid that commits to ND's situation but who knows

I think this explains a lot of the transfers. OMM talked about it in Feguson's thread too. I agree. And it's the entire reason I think ND should start oversigning by 2 or 3 kids each year. Not so many, that we have to make cuts or some other form of immoral decision. But a good enough number to cover our butts if/when the inevitable transfer or medical happens. It just seems smart. Not having a full roster load come the start of the season is not a good thing.

With that said, the stuff with Neal, Lynch, Prestwood, and Shepard had more to do with things unrelated to depth chart competition.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

True, good call. He was actually a silent commit to us for a while, wasn't he? I remember Jason saying that he had a really hard time keeping a lid on the news that KLM had dropped A&M and committed to us, but had to do it because he received the info in confidence.

I don't recall that. I thought he decided the last week before signing day and called Weis.

 

[Emcee77]

I don't recall that. I thought he decided the last week before signing day and called Weis.

Maybe. I'm not sure of the exact timing but what you've written is not inconsistent with what I'm saying. All I know for sure is that Jason recently said that he knew before it was announced that KLM had flipped to us, but he couldn't report it.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Depends what you mean by "crazy" (though I get the idea from your OP). We've certainly had our fair share of guys who had flipped to us from other schools.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Better recruits know they are better, and better recruits are told by everyone they are better. If they don't play, they either stay and fight for a spot, or leave for another one. We're not 'bama yet. We can't convince all 5* to stay and wait til their junior year to start.

Think about 'bama. They stockpile talent. Their best alternative when a guy leaves is to let the sick talent take over that they have, or dip into their JUCO pool. We don't have that luxury. Although I think we are getting significantly closer.

 

[phork]

I dont recall this type of stuff under Weis or Willingham. Certainly not during Davie or Holtz, but media was different back then.

I don't remember winning much under those guys either. (With the exception of Holtz)

 

[IrishLax]

I don't really see how Tee's recruitment was dramatic. I mean we were always getting worked up about rumors, but he committed and stayed committed.

On my phone so I'll skip most anecdotes for now, but he was ready to flip to USC until Deontay let Denbrock know where he was having dinner with Monte Kiffin and Denbrock litteraly had to barge into the restaurant and interrupt him mid meal to keep him in the fold. That's pretty crazy.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

On my phone so I'll skip most anecdotes for now, but he was ready to flip to USC until Deontay let Denbrock know where he was having dinner with Monte Kiffin and Denbrock litteraly had to barge into the restaurant and interrupt him mid meal to keep him in the fold. That's pretty crazy.

Wait are you serious? Denbrock came in mid dinner and did this, with Monte there?

 

[ACamp1900]

A buddy brought this up today but I have thought about it back and forth for a year or so now...

If the big time recruits bring this kind of drama does ND have to join the oversigning madness to a certain degree??... Look at Enoch Smith right now... numbers.

IDK what the answer really is, but I am moving more and more towards BK and CO. having to do something here.

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't remember winning much under those guys either. (With the exception of Holtz)

You sir have an apt handle.....

 

[PraetorianND]

This is why I think Deeb is the best recruit in this class. Love that kid.

 

[Buster Bluth]

A buddy brought this up today but I have thought about it back and forth for a year or so now...

If the big time recruits bring this kind of drama does ND have to join the oversigning madness to a certain degree??... Look at Enoch Smith right now... numbers.

IDK what the answer really is, but I am moving more and more towards BK and CO. having to do something here.

No. You're likely to always have 1-2 elite guys who are just a bear to handle (Lynch).

I think what this shows is that, more or less, the '12 class was Kelly and Co swinging for the fences for the studs who weren't necessarily ND men. They could get admission to the university, but they didn't value what it can do for them. There's a big difference there. I think the staff reevaluated the type of (dare I say?) RKG they want and '13 looks like a rock solid class.

It's also important to know that guys will always be transferring to some degree. For all we know, Carlisle, Prosise, Jones, etc were giving Neal too much to handle in the slot. So for all we know, we was staring being a backup right in the face and he just thought to himself "welp, no use in being so far away from home when I have a kid if I'm not starting..."

That's the type of attitude they would want to avoid.

 

[irishknight35]

This is a thread that will be interesting to look back on in about 3 yrs to see how each player's career turned out after either recruiting drama or transfer drama. Tuitt is the only one on the OP's list that is successful as both a student and an athlete and the gap is tremendous between him and all the others. I think Louis Nix could also be used as a shining example of a kid toughing it out through some personal stuff to stay at ND and shine.

I really hate seeing such talented players slip through ND's fingers either in recruiting or transfers but the guys who stay are the one's who while reap the rewards.

 

[ACamp1900]

No. You're likely to always have 1-2 elite guys who are just a bear to handle (Lynch).

I think what this shows is that, more or less, the '12 class was Kelly and Co swinging for the fences for the studs who weren't necessarily ND men. They could get admission to the university, but they didn't value what it can do for them. There's a big difference there. I think the staff reevaluated the type of (dare I say?) RKG they want and '13 looks like a rock solid class.

It's also important to know that guys will always be transferring to some degree. For all we know, Carlisle, Prosise, Jones, etc were giving Neal too much to handle in the slot. So for all we know, we was staring being a backup right in the face and he just thought to himself "welp, no use in being so far away from home when I have a kid if I'm not starting..."

That's the type of attitude they would want to avoid.

It'll be interesting to see where the 13 clas is this time next year... I will say this, all schools have transfers... but the schools where they aren't really felt are those that have the 2 and 3 deeps and numbers to do so... which are typically those that oversign.

I think there comes a point where the rule has to change, ND becomes happy with a lightning in a bottle philosophy or they fight fire with fire... just a thought.

 

[irishknight35]

It'll be interesting to see where the 13 clas is this time next year... I will say this, all schools have transfers... but the schools where they aren't really felt are those that have the 2 deep and numbers to do so... which are typically those that oversign.

I think there comes a point where the rule has to change, ND becomes happy with a lightning in a bottle philosophy or they fight fire with fire... just a thought.

It flat out is a disadvantage to ND right now. We can't fill a hole here or there with a JUCO and we can't overload recruiting classes to help mitigate transfers. Every kid signed is a hope and pray he sticks around all 4 or 5 yrs. situation. You don't lose the talent ND has lost and not feel it in some aspect during the rigors of a season.

 

[ACamp1900]

I would agree with that for the most part.