COVID-19

[ab2cmiller]

Israel decided to be the largest study in the world. The results show natural immunity is far superior, with 1% experiencing re-infection compared to 40% of vacc'd.

And they just removed the reporting they established that showed hospitalization and deaths broken out by vaccinated vs un vacc'd. I'm sure it's a coincidence.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/309762

Not surprising that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

However, your statement makes it sound like you are saying those with natural immunity have a 1% chance of reinfection vs 40% of vax'd citizens. That's not what the article is saying. It's saying that of the total new cases, 1% of those cases are from people who had natural immunity. 40% of new cases are from those that got the vaccine. If there were 40 times as many people in Israel that got the vaccine then had confirmed prior cases of COVID, then that would mean there appears to be an equal chance of having a new case. Would be curious of how many in Israel got COVID compared to how many took the vaccine.


EDIT:
It looks like about 5.35 million people vaccinated vs 850k confirmed cases of COVID. That's about 6.3 times higher. So, at first blush, it would seem that natural immunity provides significantly more protection than the vaccine.

 

[Irishize]

We may be seeing the peak of the Delta in a lot of these hot spots.

https://covidestim.org/

 

[Irishize]

In USA, COVID mortality is now the lowest since the start of the pandemic in March 2020.

 

[IrishLax]

Vaccines absolutely decrease your risk of getting infected, even against the Delta variant, in addition to drastically improving your outcomes. That’s why 99%+ of deaths recently are from unvaccinated people. It’s also shown that Pfizer gives you much better protection against Delta immediately after getting your second shot and it wanes considerably after a few months (something like 4x worse after 6 months).

There are some logical concerns about vaccines, like no study of long term effects. But most anti-vaccine objections are either 1) political 2) due to misleading information or someone’s inability to properly process statistical information 3) due to laughably insane conspiracy theories. I’m not here to convince anyone to get vaccinated, but I do want to say that some of the most prominent grifters out there right now who push anti-vaccine rhetoric are doing so for personal profit and nothing else. And the reason why we have seen (some) pundits change their tune over the past week is that there is potential for the next wave… if it happens… to disproportionately kill thousands of their followers/voters + it’s starting to poll really poorly in some circles.

Finally, everyone should consider that even mild cases of COVID have bad long terms effects and bad cases of COVID are being found to fuck up people’s brains even after recovery. I’ll dig up some links later if people want them, but I just hope all of you are taking care of yourselves and your families as best you can and come out on the other side of this alright. It’s everyone’s choice, and I don’t agree with a lot of public health policy being pushed recently, but don’t be shocked if vaccines are required a lot of places by the fall.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Anecdotally, I've got a friend who's an ER doctor and said that he's seen awful long term consequences of COVID. And another friend from church whose kids got COVID last year with mild symptoms, and now one of the kids is chronically sick, most likely due to long term effects of COVID. It ain't good, folks

 

[notredomer23]

We may be seeing the peak of the Delta in a lot of these hot spots.

https://covidestim.org/

Typical epi-curves for COVID waves had been 10-12 weeks but Delta is so much more efficient that looking at the RT charts it seems it's more like 5-8 weeks. Missouri and Arkansas waves are receding after 8 weeks. States with higher vaccination + prior infection like NJ, NY, and MA appear to already be starting to curve a bit on RT after just 4 weeks. Florida and Georgia being in week 6 with lots of prior infection + vaccination are hopefully approaching the top of their wave.

I would caveat that RT might not be the best metric now that Abbott Binax Now is so readily available everywhere you go.

 

[notredomer23]

Not surprising that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

However, your statement makes it sound like you are saying those with natural immunity have a 1% chance of reinfection vs 40% of vax'd citizens. That's not what the article is saying. It's saying that of the total new cases, 1% of those cases are from people who had natural immunity. 40% of new cases are from those that got the vaccine. If there were 40 times as many people in Israel that got the vaccine then had confirmed prior cases of COVID, then that would mean there appears to be an equal chance of having a new case. Would be curious of how many in Israel got COVID compared to how many took the vaccine.


EDIT:
It looks like about 5.35 million people vaccinated vs 850k confirmed cases of COVID. That's about 6.3 times higher. So, at first blush, it would seem that natural immunity provides significantly more protection than the vaccine.

Of all the places the CDC has failed, it's worst is ignoring natural immunity. If they were honest about that conversation I think there would be less vaccine skepticism.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Of all the places the CDC has failed, it's worst is ignoring natural immunity. If they were honest about that conversation I think there would be less vaccine skepticism.

I know Fauci is not the CDC (at least I hope not), but when he has admitted to lying about masks and percentages needed to reach herd immunity because they achieved a temporary goal about messaging, then I honestly don't know how we can trust that what he says is truth as compared to a "noble white lie"

 

[IrishLax]

Btw this is what is happening where I live and it’s beyond fucking stupid — [TWEET]https://twitter.com/garretthaake/status/1420789410669506563?s=21[/TWEET]

Getting most everyone vaccinated totally worked… so let’s bring back masks indoors for no reason whatsoever. Cool?

 

[Irish#1]

Btw this is what is happening where I live and it’s beyond fucking stupid — [TWEET]https://twitter.com/garretthaake/status/1420789410669506563?s=21[/TWEET]

Getting most everyone vaccinated totally worked… so let’s bring back masks indoors for no reason whatsoever. Cool?

Don't be surprised if you see more mandates on wearing masks. While not a requirement, I've noticed a lot more people wearing masks again.

 

[zelezo vlk]

About half the people in the office here are wearing masks while walking around. Most people in grocery stores are masking up from what I've seen. But we're also seeing spikes in COVID cases, not sure how similar y'all are seeing.

 

[NorthDakota]

About half the people in the office here are wearing masks while walking around. Most people in grocery stores are masking up from what I've seen. But we're also seeing spikes in COVID cases, not sure how similar y'all are seeing.

Masks are gone... even in Fargo.

I think our governor got quoted a few months back that we aren't ever trying another mask mandate thing again for something like this.

He's higher on the IQ spectrum than Fauci, Walenski, etc. And much more pragmatic and practical.

At the end of the day, we got a lot of dead old folks....and a CDC and NIH that have absolutely ruined their credibility. Fauci can eat a bag of dicks. What an absolute jackass lol

 

[IrishRazor82]

The vaccines were always single scope. It was an easy button for your immune system for the one strand that was known at the time, but anyone who's honest and experienced with viruses knows for certain they aim to evolve and there will be new strands. None of this is should be a surprised unless you were rushed to get it without informed consent.

Natural immunity for the relatively healthy was always going to win out against vaccines that are playing catch up to a virus. They knew this, and it's part of their business model: life long "new" vaccines drives incredible revenue.

Fortunately, for the very few who've paid attention outside the box, Ivermectin is variant-agnostic. It's shown the same effectiveness against the Brazil strand, delta strand, the P1 strand, every strand we're aware of.

Natural immunity and natural treatment over infinite jabs for the rest of your life IFF you're relatively healthy. You don't need to be an Olympian, but not 72 or fat bastard.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Masks are gone... even in Fargo.

I think our governor got quoted a few months back that we aren't ever trying another mask mandate thing again for something like this.

He's higher on the IQ spectrum than Fauci, Walenski, etc. And much more pragmatic and practical.

At the end of the day, we got a lot of dead old folks....and a CDC and NIH that have absolutely ruined their credibility. Fauci can eat a bag of dicks. What an absolute jackass lol

The differences in red vs blue has never been more stark, at least in my lifetime. Masks and lockdowns don't do anything, but watch the blue's do it all over again.

You'd think the party of "science" would learn from the first round where they did nothing, especially when the alternative is crushing your citizens once again. They hate you and will gladly trounce on your family in order to keep power and appear to be on the right side of "science".

 

[tussin]

I’m in Pittsburgh… I can’t see the vax’d people here putting on masks again.

I think this is a political misstep by Biden and team and will have long term consequences.

 

[Trait Expectations]

It's mandated by the UC (University of California) system as well.

Everyone should listen to this:

https://samharris.org/podcasts/256-contagion-bad-ideas/

This is for Razor especially. I've given over 4 hrs to listening to content you've suggested with Rogan/Weinstein and reading your data. Give that a listen and give me your thoughts if you're really willing to consider all the information.

IrishRazor82 - I'm sure you've listened by now since I've given time to your linked resources. What're your thoughts?

 

[Irishize]

As were seeing reported now, COVID is being referred to as endemic. It’s here to stay. If there was ever a window of opportunity to quash it, that window has closed. If a person is healthy which is basically a coin flip in America, they likely survive COVID with the main concern being long term effects which are still unknown. If a person is not relatively healthy, they can die from COVID. While millions were initially predicted to die at the onset last year, it still killed hundreds of thousands of Americans.

PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART: the seasonal flu is the easiest comparison because it’s also a coronavirus that we have a vaccination for currently. I’ve been lucky my entire life as I never had the flu. I also never had the flu vaccine until my job started requiring it. Anecdotally, I’ve learned that while the vaccine cannot 100% prevent one from getting the flu, it can reduce the time of infection and minimize the side effects vs one who did not get the vaccine. That seems to be where we are at with the COVID vaccine. I’d bet anything that there are more “variants” to come. This will also lead to more conspiracy minded folks to claim that it’s the gov’t way of keeping their thumb on us in regards to power/control via mask mandates, quarantines, lock downs, etc. I bet if both sides of the vaccine debate would come to agreement that COVID isn’t going away, however; with vaccines we can protect the vulnerable (they’ll still get sick but likely not die based on current data), then we could at least move forward in following the long-term effects of contracting COVID vs COVID vaccine.

Another point that rarely is made is that it’s not 100% RED vs BLUE in regards to the vaccine. There are plenty of Dems who havent gotten the vaccine yet either. Based on voting stats most black Americans vote Dem yet they’re typically the lowest vaccinated racial group. I suspect they have myriad reasons but in light of America’s recent past (The 40-year Tuskegee Study was a major violation of ethical standards, and has been cited as "arguably the most infamous biomedical research study in U.S. history."), black folks have more reason to distrust the CDC and the US govt than any other group when it comes to vaccines not yet approved by the FDA.

 

[IrishLax]

If you believe that vaccines are “only” effective against one strain of COVID you are either intentionally deluding yourself or just have no ability to process basic information.

Pfizer/Moderna are 88% effective against infection from Delta. When looking at serious cases/hospitalization it’s damn near 100% for all strains of COVID. There have been ~5000 total breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization in the US for 161M who have been vaccinated. Do the math.

On top of that, by limiting the seriousness of the cases, even if you want “natural immunity” you’d be far better off contracting a low/no symptom case while vaccinated than getting a worse case while not vaccinated… especially with what people are learning about the long term effects from COVID. So the whole thing is self-defeating unless you’re just throwing shit against the wall to see if you can convince people vaccines are bad.

The conversation we need to be having is about why they’re trying to put in mask mandates for vaccinated people, not whether vaccines work. They quite obviously work.

 

[TorontoGold]

If you believe that vaccines are “only” effective against one strain of COVID you are either intentionally deluding yourself or just have no ability to process basic information.

Pfizer/Moderna are 88% effective against infection from Delta. When looking at serious cases/hospitalization it’s damn near 100% for all strains of COVID. There have been ~5000 total breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization in the US for 161M who have been vaccinated. Do the math.

On top of that, by limiting the seriousness of the cases, even if you want “natural immunity” you’d be far better off contracting a low/no symptom case while vaccinated than getting a worse case while not vaccinated… especially with what people are learning about the long term effects from COVID. So the whole thing is self-defeating unless you’re just throwing shit against the wall to see if you can convince people vaccines are bad.

The conversation we need to be having is about why they’re trying to put in mask mandates for vaccinated people, not whether vaccines work. They quite obviously work.

Still large mask mandates up here and the folks are getting unruly. I really struggle with the thought of putting a mask on if I contract covid I will have none or little symptoms, throw the masks on if I'm visiting immuno comprised people but otherwise? Let me run free.

But, as always, public health policy seems to be protecting the FrEe tHiNkERs.

 

[Irish#1]

On long term effects. I have a guy that works for me. Big dude about 6'6" and probably 260-275 range. He contracted COVID-19 last year. He got his shots when he was eligible, but he's missed quite a few days in the last six months. Typically cites chills and headaches. During one period he also had what he thought was heart trouble, but that checked out okay.

 

[IrishRazor82]

If you believe that vaccines are “only” effective against one strain of COVID you are either intentionally deluding yourself or just have no ability to process basic information.

Pfizer/Moderna are 88% effective against infection from Delta. When looking at serious cases/hospitalization it’s damn near 100% for all strains of COVID. There have been ~5000 total breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization in the US for 161M who have been vaccinated. Do the math.

On top of that, by limiting the seriousness of the cases, even if you want “natural immunity” you’d be far better off contracting a low/no symptom case while vaccinated than getting a worse case while not vaccinated… especially with what people are learning about the long term effects from COVID. So the whole thing is self-defeating unless you’re just throwing shit against the wall to see if you can convince people vaccines are bad.

The conversation we need to be having is about why they’re trying to put in mask mandates for vaccinated people, not whether vaccines work. They quite obviously work.

This is not true. Are you aware Israel used Pfizer exclusively? Exclusively... And now their vaccinated members are 7x more likely to get COVID than their unvacc'd?

This is widely known for viruses in general, and we're watching it play out in real time with COVID.

"Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens"
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.1002198

I am curious what your position is on Ivermectin?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

 

[IrishRazor82]

Anyone?

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/29/87-percent-covid-deaths-are-vaccinated-people/

 

[Irish#1]

Anyone?

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/29/87-percent-covid-deaths-are-vaccinated-people/

When I got to this I stopped.

Unfortunately for PHS, they weren’t quite clever enough, as their latest report has allowed us to uncover the shocking statistic that they were attempting to hide.

 

[Greenore]

Still large mask mandates up here and the folks are getting unruly. I really struggle with the thought of putting a mask on if I contract covid I will have none or little symptoms, throw the masks on if I'm visiting immuno comprised people but otherwise? Let me run free.

But, as always, public health policy seems to be protecting the FrEe tHiNkERs.

Public Health policy equals the Provincial and Federal Human Rights Commissions. What a joke!! I've travelled that road more than once and it's not pretty. No logic whatsoever.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[tussin]

This is not true. Are you aware Israel used Pfizer exclusively? Exclusively... And now their vaccinated members are 7x more likely to get COVID than their unvacc'd?

This is widely known for viruses in general, and we're watching it play out in real time with COVID.

"Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens"
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.1002198

I am curious what your position is on Ivermectin?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

What is the data you are referring to? The study from Israel shows that vaccines wane in effectiveness over time but still prevent serious illness in 90% of cases.

Here, the data show that the vaccines are incredibly effective against the variants. The rates of hospitalization and death of vaccinated people is still effectively zero across the US and breakthrough cases are exceedingly rare. And the protection against variants may just be limited to the Pfizer vaccine, Moderna's studies show that boosters are actually unnecessary and that immunity has remained strong 4-6 months out.

 

[phork]

This is not true. Are you aware Israel used Pfizer exclusively? Exclusively... And now their vaccinated members are 7x more likely to get COVID than their unvacc'd?

This is widely known for viruses in general, and we're watching it play out in real time with COVID.

"Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens"
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.1002198

I am curious what your position is on Ivermectin?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Its funny how you still haven't answered any of my ivermectin links.
Heres another one: https://www.theguardian.com/science...vid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns
Also you seem to neglect, in touting that the vaccines are not FDA approved, that Ivermectin is also not FDA approved for Covid treatment.

Also curious as to how you explain 7 of the 10 states with rising cases are republican and in Arkansas the governor is looking to ditch the mask mandate because, you know, shits gettin real. The absolute willful ignorance of data is astounding to me. Hows Florida and Texas now?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Due to the doubling of Covid cases (overwhelmingly delta variant) in my area the airport has implemented new HR policy plus full facility mask mandate when social distancing can’t be achieved to protect employees.

”anyone unvaccinated has to take a COVID test every week and submit the results to HR AND If anyone unvaccinated gets COVID then they have to use their sick time for the 2 weeks they’re out. If already vaccinated employees get it they can use COVID time and not personal sick time.”

one unvaxd maintenance person got the delta variant and was in contact with half of a 50 person crew for the airport. This on person put half of the maintenance crew out either by passing on or exposure.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Ive asked more than ten doctors about ivermectin and all they said was please get vaccinated using one of the available vaccines that have been shown to work.

 

[Irishize]

Decoupling of cases & deaths in the UK

 

[Trait Expectations]

IrishRazor82 - I'm sure you've listened by now since I've given time to your linked resources. What're your thoughts?

bump again