Conference Championships matter

[Cali_domer]

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 1m 1 minute ago
Big 12’s Bob Bowlsby: “What we heard is if we don’t go to a championship game we’re at a disadvantage"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 5m 5 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby “I surmise a move in that direction (toward having future Big 12 title game)”



Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 6m 6 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby said Jeff Long indicated “13 (games) better than 12.” If Big 12 at disadvantage Big 12 would look to add future title game

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
· 2h 2 hours ago
Bill Hancock on @CFBPlayoff: "We need to emphasis more the importance of the conference championships"

What does this mean for ND?

 

[MNIrishman]

Well, we win our conference every year, soooooo.....

 

[Cali_domer]

Well, we win our conference every year, soooooo.....

Take that Navy,Army,and BYU

 

[wizards8507]

The Big 12 - ND Classic. Every year the Big 12 "one true champion" plays ND in Dallas or some place.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm all for just joining the ACC...

 

[Cali_domer]

I'm all for just joining the ACC...

This^^^^

 

[zelezo vlk]

The Big 12 - ND Classic. Every year the Big 12 "one true champion" plays ND in Dallas or some place.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

I'm not sure this is allowed, but I'd be for it if Jack could ease up on the schedule to accommodate.

I'm against joining any conference until absolutely necessary.

 

[dales5050]

What does this mean for ND?

Honestly I don't think it matters. Here is why.

Even if the Big12 did a CCG and ND joined the ACC, you're still looking at 5 teams for 4 slots.

Say the Big12 were to have played a CCG last year. Regardless of who won that game, both teams would have gone into the series over Ohio State...the eventual NC.

I think it's more likely to see the playoffs being expanded to 8 teams before ND joins the ACC and the Big12 adds at CCG. And at that point, you still have 3 slots open for non Conference Champions.

 

[NDdomer2]

Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick in no rush to contemplate adding 13th game for Fighting Irish.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Honestly I don't think it matters. Here is why.

Even if the Big12 did a CCG and ND joined the ACC, you're still looking at 5 teams for 4 slots.

Say the Big12 were to have played a CCG last year. Regardless of who won that game, both teams would have gone into the series over Ohio State...the eventual NC.

I think it's more likely to see the playoffs being expanded to 8 teams before ND joins the ACC and the Big12 adds at CCG. And at that point, you still have 3 slots open for non Conference Champions.

You're not really though, unless there are 5 one or 0 loss conference winners. The real issues arise when there are multiple 1 or 2 loss teams trying to get that last playoff spot. At that point, tie is going to go to the conference champion.

That being said, there will also be years when a 1 loss team loses in a CCG and is knocked out of the playoff hunt because of it. I'm not convinced that it's a net benefit.

 

[Johannes]

Move the annual match-up with Navy to conference championship week. Navy still has a week to prepare for the Army game. Use the extra regular season slot to play one of the B1G teams that have been cut out of the schedule.

 

[IrishLax]

This is completely irrelevant to ND. Still 5 for 4 issue, it's not championship that matters it's the 13th game against a quality opponent that implicitly happens because of conference championship.

Last year it was apparent the only way ND gets in is going undefeated OR having a head-to-head over the team that's last OR there being multiple two-loss teams that are champions. That status quo is the same as long it's four slots... ND is NEVER getting in over a major conference champion with the same record and comparable SOS.

If it goes to 8 teams with 5 AQs + 3 at-large it'll be the most fair system college football has had by a long shot.

 

[pumpdog20]

What it means is that ND needs to join the Big Ten, and be in the same division as Iowa so they have to come to Iowa City every other year.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I'm all for just joining the ACC...

Honestly so am I.


Sent via tapatalk

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm all for just joining the ACC...

This^^^^

If the possibility of being left out of a playoff is your only reason for arguing this it's a poor argument. First, we aren't Baylor or TCU, we have money, political clout, history, and viewership, so I don't think its likely for a truly worthy ND team to not get the nod. Second, it's crazy to throw away that kind of tradition and identity on a problem that is purely imaginary in your worst case scenarios. Third, the playoffs will be likely expand further in the next ten years, the chances of a worthy ND team being denied a spot in the playoffs will become nearly impossible in the near future.

I'm not saying under no circumstance should we ever join a conference, but if you guys are saying we need to do it or we won't get into the playoffs I think you guys are completely overreacting to a soon-to-be-fixed, currently-imaginary problem.

 

[dublinirish]

Move the annual match-up with Navy to conference championship week. Navy still has a week to prepare for the Army game. Use the extra regular season slot to play one of the B1G teams that have been cut out of the schedule.

you forget Navy is no longer indepedent.

 

[dales5050]

The real issues arise when there are multiple 1 or 2 loss teams trying to get that last playoff spot. At that point, tie is going to go to the conference champion.

Under the current 4 team I think the ND pretty much has to be 12-0 to may the 4 teams. If ND is undefeated, conference or not, they are in the 4.

My point was when it goes to 8 teams, and I think that will happen first, ND will be in the 8 with just 1 loss and 11 wins. I am simply saying take a wait and see approach.

Off subject but...

Regarding the 13th game, JS makes a good point that it's not just the game but who you play. But I disagree with him on his comment that you're always going to play a good team in a CCG.

In 2013 a 2 loss Duke team played in the ACC CCG.
In 2012 a 6-6 Georgia Tech played
In 2011 a 9-3 Clemson played
In 2010 a 9-3 FSU played
In 2009 8-4 Clemson played

Similar teams, outside of the SEC, have done it in the B10 and P12 like

A 6-6 UCLA team in 2011
A 9-3 UCLA team in 2012
A 7-5 Wisky team in 2012


Personally I think ND is going to not join a conference and eventually play a 13th game. I think that game will be against BYU.

Unless BYU joins the B12, I think they are going to move ahead indy status and do well. The SEC just deciding this spring that a game against BYU now count toward the SEC's requirement of playing one nonconference Power 5 team is HUGE.

If they are able to keep some of the Pac12 games in the middle of the season, add an SEC team or two in the first month and then close with ND every year...they would have one of the better schedules in the land IMHO.

 

[NDohio]

I'm all for just joining the ACC...

If the possibility of being left out of a playoff is your only reason for arguing this it's a poor argument. First, we aren't Baylor or TCU, we have money, political clout, history, and viewership, so I don't think its likely for a truly worthy ND team to not get the nod. Second, it's crazy to throw away that kind of tradition and identity on a problem that is purely imaginary in your worst case scenarios. Third, the playoffs will be likely expand further in the next ten years, the chances of a worthy ND team being denied a spot in the playoffs will become nearly impossible in the near future.

I'm not saying under no circumstance should we ever join a conference, but if you guys are saying we need to do it or we won't get into the playoffs I think you guys are completely overreacting to a soon-to-be-fixed, currently-imaginary problem.

I'm in ACAMP's camp.

For me it is about relieving the schedule. As long as ND stays independent the schedule is going to continue to be too difficult. It's just too hard to get the record needed to get into the playoffs. If ND begins to lighten the schedule while an independent, I think that will hurt(especially without a 13th games). Joining the ACC takes care of all that.

Plus, it gives me more opportunities to see games...

 

[wizards8507]

For me it is about relieving the schedule. As long as ND stays independent the schedule is going to continue to be too difficult. It's just too hard to get the record needed to get into the playoffs. If ND begins to lighten the schedule while an independent, I think that will hurt(especially without a 13th games). Joining the ACC takes care of all that.

How?

 

[ThePiombino]

Reality is the easiest path to the CFP is through a CCG. With B12 adding a CCG, ND would need to jump 2 conference champions in order to make the current 4-team playoff. They would most likely have to be undefeated in order to do that. Given the gauntlet of a schedule they typically face, I just don't see it happening. Even the Bamas of the world are bound to trip up once in a while with a schedule like ours. I hate to see ND have to join a conference, but I would hate even more to see them effectively blackballed from the CFP even more so. The times, they are a changing, boys. Adapt, migrate, or perish.

 

[wizards8507]

Reality is the easiest path to the CFP is through a CCG. With B12 adding a CCG, ND would need to jump 2 conference champions in order to make the current 4-team playoff. They would most likely have to be undefeated in order to do that. Given the gauntlet of a schedule they typically face, I just don't see it happening. Even the Bamas of the world are bound to trip up once in a while with a schedule like ours. I hate to see ND have to join a conference, but I would hate when more to see them effectively blackballed from the CFP even more so. The times, they are a changing, boys. Adapt, migrate, or perish.

Every word you just said can also be applied to eliminating admissions standards, creating a "general studies" major just for athletes, using donors to bribe recruits, eliminating any focus on graduation rates, spending Oregon levels of money on facilities, and replacing the stadium grass with artificial turf.

Hard pass.

 

[NDdomer2]

Under the current 4 team I think the ND pretty much has to be 12-0 to may the 4 teams. If ND is undefeated, conference or not, they are in the 4.

My point was when it goes to 8 teams, and I think that will happen first, ND will be in the 8 with just 1 loss and 11 wins. I am simply saying take a wait and see approach.

Off subject but...

Regarding the 13th game, JS makes a good point that it's not just the game but who you play. But I disagree with him on his comment that you're always going to play a good team in a CCG.

In 2013 a 2 loss Duke team played in the ACC CCG.
In 2012 a 6-6 Georgia Tech played
In 2011 a 9-3 Clemson played
In 2010 a 9-3 FSU played
In 2009 8-4 Clemson played

Similar teams, outside of the SEC, have done it in the B10 and P12 like

A 6-6 UCLA team in 2011
A 9-3 UCLA team in 2012
A 7-5 Wisky team in 2012


Personally I think ND is going to not join a conference and eventually play a 13th game. I think that game will be against BYU.

Unless BYU joins the B12, I think they are going to move ahead indy status and do well. The SEC just deciding this spring that a game against BYU now count toward the SEC's requirement of playing one nonconference Power 5 team is HUGE.

If they are able to keep some of the Pac12 games in the middle of the season, add an SEC team or two in the first month and then close with ND every year...they would have one of the better schedules in the land IMHO.

Lightening the schedule throughout (not front loading as we have in past), balancing the acc games across the whole schedule and adding a good BYU (who has a good SOS) for 13th game during Conf Champ week could work.

As you mention the fact the SEC determination goes a long way, only if BYU has respectable years and plays solid SOS outside their one SEC game a year.

Again this would be somethign that would take a year or two to watch unfold.

ND is in a holding position for hte immediate future IMO.

However, if we do HAVE to join a conference, the ACC is the best landing spot for us. I see no reason ND wouldnt be a top 3 team in the conference every year which gives you a regular chance to make the champ game.

 

[wizards8507]

Lightening the schedule throughout and balancing the acc games across the whole schedule and adding a good BYU (who has a good SOS) for 13th game during Conf Champ week could work.

Where do you lighten the schedule? Our non-ACC games next year are:

UMass
Texas
USC
Navy
Stanford
Temple

Navy, UMass, and Temple are pretty darn "light" already. I don't think anyone has much appetite to drop USC or Stanford. That leaves one game (Texas) where you have an opportunity to lighten.

ETA: Has anyone been able to confirm that we even COULD add a 13th game if we wanted to do so?

 

[ThePiombino]

Every word you just said can also be applied to eliminating admissions standards, creating a "general studies" major just for athletes, using donors to bribe recruits, eliminating any focus on graduation rates, spending Oregon levels of money on facilities, and replacing the stadium grass with artificial turf.

Hard pass.

Sensationalize much? How can you compare joining a conference so as to keep up the Joneses to morally corrupt behavior? No one is saying ND needs to compromise its academic standards to keep pace here. We're talking about schedules and conference affiliations. What was the point of this statement?

 

[wizards8507]

Sensationalize much? How can you compare joining a conference so as to keep up the Joneses to morally corrupt behavior? No one is saying ND needs to compromise its academic standards to keep pace here. We're talking about schedules and conference affiliations. What was the point of this statement?

The point of the statement is that I don't consider "keeping up with the Joneses" to be a valid decision-making criterion. It's a slippery slope.

 

[BGIF]

There is no 13th game

There is no 13th game

... Unless you play Hawaii IN HI. THERE ARE NO FBS SCHOOLS IN OTHER TRAVEL EXEMPTION LOCATIONS. Max games without HI exception is 12 in a season.

2014 NCAA Division Manual

NCAA Rule 17.9.5 Number Of Contests


17.9.5.1 Maximum Limitations—Institutional. [FBS/FCS]  In bowl subdivision football, a member in- stitution shall limit its total regular-season playing schedule with outside competition during the permissible football playing season in any one year to 12 contests (games or scrimmages), except as provided for member institutions located in Alaska and Hawaii, under Bylaw 17.27.2, and except as provided for all members under

 

[ACamp1900]

Every word you just said can also be applied to eliminating admissions standards, creating a "general studies" major just for athletes, using donors to bribe recruits, eliminating any focus on graduation rates, spending Oregon levels of money on facilities, and replacing the stadium grass with artificial turf.

Hard pass.

Sounds great to me....

 

[ThePiombino]

The point of the statement is that I don't consider "keeping up with the Joneses" to be a valid decision-making criterion. It's a slippery slope.

How is joining a conference a slippery slope, though??! That and loosening standards are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE concepts, completely! If you want to make that correlation, that's a YOU problem, not an ND problem. ND has often been its own worst enemy in terms of keeping pace with the landscape of college football at the highest level. One's inability to CONSIDER this change merely perpetuates those challenges.

 

[NDdomer2]

Where do you lighten the schedule? Our non-ACC games next year are:

UMass
Texas
USC
Navy
Stanford
Temple

Navy, UMass, and Temple are pretty darn "light" already. I don't think anyone has much appetite to drop USC or Stanford. That leaves one game (Texas) where you have an opportunity to lighten.

ETA: Has anyone been able to confirm that we even COULD add a 13th game if we wanted to do so?

you got me before my edit. I added my thought on lighten as in dont front load as we have in the past.

I agree the upcoming schedule was much more favorable to the team.

It hasn't always been that way tho.

 

[NDohio]

I'm in ACAMP's camp.

For me it is about relieving the schedule. As long as ND stays independent the schedule is going to continue to be too difficult. It's just too hard to get the record needed to get into the playoffs. If ND begins to lighten the schedule while an independent, I think that will hurt(especially without a 13th games). Joining the ACC takes care of all that.

Plus, it gives me more opportunities to see games...

Every word you just said can also be applied to eliminating admissions standards, creating a "general studies" major just for athletes, using donors to bribe recruits, eliminating any focus on graduation rates, spending Oregon levels of money on facilities, and replacing the stadium grass with artificial turf.

Hard pass.

How you can go from me wanting to have a more balanced schedule and playing the same schools on a consistent basis by joining a conference and this paragraph above makes it impossible to have a discussion about it.