College Football Playoff Rankings 2015 (ND #8...)

Irish Insanity

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This. We do control our own destiny. The committee has made two statements that they really like what ND has done. If we win out we're in regardless of what anyone else does.
You think if OK St wins out and is undefeated we get in over them?
I just don't see it. We would have to beat a bad BC team and a mildly ranked Stanford, and have 1 loss. They'd be undefeated and finish with wins over a mildly ranked Baylor and a high ranked OU team.
 
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Irish#1

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You think if OK St wins out and is undefeated we get in over them?

Yes I do. Everyone is focused on SOS and rankings, but I seem to remember a comment from the committee about complete teams. The Big 12 doesn't not play a lick of defense and I think that hurts them. Stanford's ranking isn't "mildly" at the moment.
 

Wingman Ray

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I think if Michigan goes 11-2, they have a great shot at jumping into the top-4. I'd really only see 13-0 Clemson, 12-1 Bama, 11-1 ND and maybe a Big-12 team (only if it's 12-0 OSU or 11-1 OU) finishing ahead of Michigan in that scenario.

OSU is going to beat Mich like a drum. Wont be a concern.

ND just needs to take care of business vs Stanford. Do that and they are in.

ND vs Clemson rematch. Nuff said.
 

IrishinSyria

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Yes I do. Everyone is focused on SOS and rankings, but I seem to remember a comment from the committee about complete teams. The Big 12 doesn't not play a lick of defense and I think that hurts them. Stanford's ranking isn't "mildly" at the moment.

Even if you were right on the football merits, the Big XII would back out of the playoff system if this happens, and there's no way the committee locks out an undefeated Big XII team after what happened last year.

There is <1 percent chance ND doesn't get jumped by a 12-0 Oklahoma State.
 

rocket66

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A lot of us bitch about playing Navy, myself included. How absolutely crazy is it that they could be helping us get into the playoffs? No one could have predicted that. We'll owe them a game for the rest of history if they win out.


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ickythump1225

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You think if OK St wins out and is undefeated we get in over them?
I just don't see it. We would have to beat a bad BC team and a mildly ranked Stanford, and have 1 loss. They'd be undefeated and finish with wins over a mildly ranked Baylor and a high ranked OU team.
I think the committee will have watched more football than the last two weeks of the season. Just because the Big 12 is finishing strong(-ish) doesn't erase the first 9-10 weeks of the season where they played some of the easiest schedules in the country. We have played 5 teams as of now with at least 7 wins this season. It will be 6 by the end of the year. Navy, Temple, USC (if they win the Pac), and Stanford (if they win the Pac) all have a shot to get to double digit wins and Clemson already has 10 wins. Navy, Pitt, USC, Stanford, Temple, and Clemson could all end the year ranked.

None of this is to guarantee that we get in over undefeated OK State but there is an argument to be made. If OK State gets in it won't just be because they decided to finally play good teams the final 3 weeks of the season.

Our biggest obstacle to the playoffs is Stanford. We all have kind of glossed over Stanford in the excitement but they could easily end our playoff run. We need to clear that hurdle before I get too worked over us potentially getting shut out of the playoffs.
 

ickythump1225

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Even if you were right on the football merits, the Big XII would back out of the playoff system if this happens, and there's no way the committee locks out an undefeated Big XII team after what happened last year.

There is <1 percent chance ND doesn't get jumped by a 12-0 Oklahoma State.
Back out of the playoff system into what? Just crown their champion the national champion every year and have them play an exhibition game? If 12-0 OK State does get left out the message is clear: STOP PLAYING GARBAGE OOC GAMES! I wouldn't feel sorry not one iota if they got left out, you can't cruise around with a SoS in the lower 90s/lower 100s all year long and then bitch and cry that you got left out at the end.

I also think Jeff Long was sending another message to the Big 12 when he said that Iowa is better than OK State or OU and that is: balance counts, play some damn defense. He kept mentioning how Iowa could play on both sides of the ball. In my mind a clear shot at the pathetic state of defense in the Big 12. I think that probably came into play last year as well. OSU was the more well balanced team than either Baylor or TCU. The committee views us as well balanced and have said so on occasion.
 
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Cackalacky

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Yes I do. Everyone is focused on SOS and rankings, but I seem to remember a comment from the committee about complete teams. The Big 12 doesn't not play a lick of defense and I think that hurts them. Stanford's ranking isn't "mildly" at the moment.

Yes... the committee has been walking the walk and talking the talk regarding their process this year. Its a bit more clear than last year IMO.

  1. Win
  2. SOS - play tough teams win or lose
  3. Be a complete team
  4. play well
If you go down their rankings and start applying these to each team, the top 4 teams are not debatable at this time. Once you get to #5.... teams stop checking off all of these criteria. Particularly the Big 12 and Iowa. When i hear Irish are solidly #4, tha tto me indicates there is a gulf between ND and the any of the other teams that are remotely close to them in the rankings.

Further... ND will be playing most likely three or more teams that will play for their conference championship. Their resume includes teams from most of the Power 5 conferences so the committee knows where they stack up against he rest of the country... No team in the Big 12 comes close to this resume, regardless of their record. I think ND is in a great spot right now.
 
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IrishLion

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Gonna be awesome when OSU loses to Sparty this weekend, opening up an extra spot while we're all worrying about the Big XII lol.
 

IrishLion

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Yes... the committee has been walking the walk and talking the talk regarding their process this year. Its a bit more clear than last year IMO.

  1. Win
  2. SOS - play tough teams win or lose
  3. Be a complete team
  4. play well
If you go down their rankings and start applying these to each team, the top 4 teams are not debatable at this time. Once you get to #5.... teams stop checking off all of these criteria. Particularly the Big 12 and Iowa. When i hear Irish are solidly #4, tha tto me indicates there is a gulf between ND and the any of the other teams that are remotely close to them in the rankings.

The only issues here is Ohio State. I understand it, but the committee isn't really following their own narrative in terms of the Buckeyes. They are the defending national champs and one of the most talented teams in football, and I think they are absolutely a top 4 team... but their resume so far doesn't back up their ranking.

It would have been nice to see the committee keep them around 5 or 6 while waiting on their Sparty and scUM matchups, which is how the Big XII was treated.
 

dublinirish

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The only issues here is Ohio State. I understand it, but the committee isn't really following their own narrative in terms of the Buckeyes. They are the defending national champs and one of the most talented teams in football, and I think they are absolutely a top 4 team... but their resume so far doesn't back up their ranking.

It would have been nice to see the committee keep them around 5 or 6 while waiting on their Sparty and scUM matchups, which is how the Big XII was treated.

problem is would you stick Oklahoma st in there if you took OSU out? I think its better to just leave them as is.
 

D-BOE34

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Even if you were right on the football merits, the Big XII would back out of the playoff system if this happens, and there's no way the committee locks out an undefeated Big XII team after what happened last year.

There is <1 percent chance ND doesn't get jumped by a 12-0 Oklahoma State.

Again, they left them out for the eventual champion! They don't need a "Make Up" call here...
 

rocket66

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My biggest beef in all of the media talk is the discussion of "conference championships are the #1 criteria". Has that ever really been stated? I think the media hangs their hat on that to justify osu getting in over the Big12 last year, but honestly I think the committee puts who they think are the best 4 teams regardless of the championship game. The only thing a championship game offers is extra data and help if a certain team has a bad schedule - similar to Iowa this year. They would need that last game to boost them into the top 4.


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C

Cackalacky

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The only issues here is Ohio State. I understand it, but the committee isn't really following their own narrative in terms of the Buckeyes. They are the defending national champs and one of the most talented teams in football, and I think they are absolutely a top 4 team... but their resume so far doesn't back up their ranking.

It would have been nice to see the committee keep them around 5 or 6 while waiting on their Sparty and scUM matchups, which is how the Big XII was treated.

Not sure I follow. They are undefeated in what... 20+ games? Defending National champs, elite on both sides of the ball, elite head coach with proven National Championship credentials, they are #6 in the FEI and #2 in the S&P, they will have to play in their championship game of course but if they win out there is no question.

I imagine it as a set of weighted criteria for each team. Again, the fact the Clemson has a SOS of 82 is offset by their record, team balance, exceptional play and status in the conference as division winner.

As to the Big 12 they meet almost a couple but not all and the ones they do meet are worse that most other teams in the top 10. Oklahoma has the best of them all but they lost to Texas... No team in the Big 12 plays defense, TCU is overrated so wins against them are less impressive, Baylor got exposed for a lack of depth and lack of defense, OKST barely survived against ISU, one of the lowest ranked FBS teams in the country. And.... none of their OOC games were any good except for Oklahoma.
 

gkIrish

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I'm looking so much forward to you eating crow homey.

Minus Tabasco.

You have been wrong for 3 weeks.

Minimum two.

As others have said not sure what I'm eating crow about. All I've ever said is that if Oklahoma goes 11-1 they have a legitimate chance to jump us. I never said they would jump us prior to their game against Oklahoma St. I didn't even say they would jump us if they do go 11-1...only that it's very possible.
 
K

koonja

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We want MSU to beat OSU, right?

Or doesn't it matter because presumably OSU would be out, and MSU would be in the conference champ game with a chance to win there and secure a top 4. No chance both OSU and MSU make it in if MSU wins this weekend right?
 

IrishLion

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problem is would you stick Oklahoma st in there if you took OSU out? I think its better to just leave them as is.

Not sure I follow. They are undefeated in what... 20+ games? Defending National champs, elite on both sides of the ball, elite head coach with proven National Championship credentials, they are #6 in the FEI and #2 in the S&P, they will have to play in their championship game of course but if they win out there is no question.

I imagine it as a set of weighted criteria for each team. Again, the fact the Clemson has a SOS of 82 is offset by their record, team balance, exceptional play and status in the conference as division winner.

As to the Big 12 they meet almost a couple but not all and the ones they do meet are worse that most other teams in the top 10. Oklahoma has the best of them all but they lost to Texas... No team in the Big 12 plays defense, TCU is overrated so wins against them are less impressive, Baylor got exposed for a lack of depth and lack of defense, OKST barely survived against ISU, one of the lowest ranked FBS teams in the country. And.... none of their OOC games were any good except for Oklahoma.

I'm just saying that we actually have no idea (technically) about how good OSU is. Sure, they won the natty last year with a young team, but they've looked nothing like that team yet this year. They have played nobody. Their best non-conference game was a VT team that might still miss a bowl game, and their best conference game was against Jordan Howard-less Indiana.

There is no evidence supporting that OSU is number three this year.

The committee is essentially holding the Big XII back while they wait on these last three weeks of big matchups. Ohio State's schedule sets up the exact same, with Sparty, scUM, and B1G CG all coming in the next three weeks.

OSU should get treated the same as the Big XII IMO, but I understand why they are not. The above is just my own personal argument. I think that if any team from the B1G should be ranked #3 right now, it's Iowa. Better resume than OSU to this point, and so we actually *know* that Iowa is a pretty good team.
 

tussin

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As others have said not sure what I'm eating crow about. All I've ever said is that if Oklahoma goes 11-1 they have a legitimate chance to jump us. I never said they would jump us prior to their game against Oklahoma St. I didn't even say they would jump us if they do go 11-1...only that it's very possible.

I'm with gk on this one. Don't understand how anyone is confident here.

The assumption that ND will remain at 4 regardless of Big 12 outcomes is only valid if you think that there is currently a WIDE gap in the current rankings between ND and 5/6/7. If we assume that the committee thinks the Sooners are at least comparable to ND, then it isn't unreasonable to think that they would jump us after picking up a top 20 win, a top 10 win, and a conference title.

Basically I think we are good if the committee is tiering the teams as 1-4, wide gap, then 5-7. We are in trouble if they are tiering the teams as 1-3, wide gap, then 4-7. My gut says it's the latter and not the former.
 

Domina Nostra

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I'm just saying that we actually have no idea (technically) about how good OSU is. Sure, they won the natty last year with a young team, but they've looked nothing like that team yet this year. They have played nobody. Their best non-conference game was a VT team that might still miss a bowl game, and their best conference game was against Jordan Howard-less Indiana.

There is no evidence supporting that OSU is number three this year.

The committee is essentially holding the Big XII back while they wait on these last three weeks of big matchups. Ohio State's schedule sets up the exact same, with Sparty, scUM, and B1G CG all coming in the next three weeks.

OSU should get treated the same as the Big XII IMO, but I understand why they are not. The above is just my own personal argument.

I'll go out on a limb and say that the Committee should expressly state that unless there is a glaring reason to go in a different direction (i.e., cheating)...

They will ALWAYS put last year's National Champion in the Playoff as long as it stays undefeated.

I think it would be a good rule. I think keeping them out is a terrible idea. They are the Champ until they lose again.
 

IrishLion

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I think there is a significant margin between 4 and 5, if you believe what Jeff Long has to say. He said that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are starting to present some evidence, but he also said that the "OU vs Texas" results aren't going to go away. To me, it sounded like a preview of what we'll hear if ND and OU both finish 11-1.
 

gkIrish

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I think there is a significant margin between 4 and 5, if you believe what Jeff Long has to say. He said that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are starting to present some evidence, but he also said that the "OU vs Texas" results aren't going to go away. To me, it sounded like a preview of what we'll hear if ND and OU both finish 11-1.

What else is he supposed to say? Clearly it's a factor and always will be.

He isn't going to come out and say Oklahoma winning out will be enough to overcome the Texas loss.
 

gkIrish

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Notre Dame or Big 12 champ? We may be headed for another heated playoff debate

CHICAGO – We are trending toward a most interesting College Football Playoff debate: Notre Dame or the Big 12 champion?

Now, that debate presumes three things: Clemson wins out, Alabama wins out and the Big Ten produces an undefeated champion – either Ohio State or Iowa. If those things all happen, the fourth position in the bracket could well be the Fighting Irish vs. the conference the playoff rejected last year.

It also could be the first spot decided. The Big 12’s prime contenders (Oklahoma State and Oklahoma) and Notre Dame will all be finished playing Nov. 28, while the other top teams will have a championship game to contest the next weekend.

For now, Notre Dame holds the coveted fourth position in the CFP selection committee rankings released Tuesday night. Right behind them is Iowa, which very likely will fight it out with the Big Ten East Division winner (Ohio State?) for a spot in the bracket – if both are undefeated before that league championship game. And then comes the state of Oklahoma.

Unbeaten Oklahoma State is No. 6, having moved up two spots because two teams ahead of it and two behind it all lost last week. And after the Cowboys comes Oklahoma, which vaulted five spots after beating Baylor in Waco.
These are the two most likely to vie with Notre Dame for a potential fourth spot. If the Cowboys win out and finish 12-0 – taking down TCU, Baylor and Oklahoma in the process – they could be tough to deny. If the Sooners win out, it’s a battle royale of perception, prestige and P.R. between a pair of blueblood programs.

“If everyone holds serve in the top three, it’s going to be a huge debate [between Notre Dame and the Big 12],” ESPN lead analyst Kirk Herbstreit told me at the United Center on Tuesday night. “If Oklahoma State wins out, they may go by [the Fighting Irish]. If it’s Oklahoma, who to me looked as good as anybody last week, that’ll become the debate.”

Notre Dame would have a couple of strong arguments to make if it comes down to that. First is comparative scores against like opponents: The Irish destroyed Texas 38-3 to start the season, and the Longhorns shocked the Sooners in Dallas in early October. That also gives Notre Dame the edge when it comes to comparing losses: The Irish’s two-point road loss to No. 1 Clemson is a lot better than a neutral-site defeat at the hands of a six-loss team.

But here’s what else could come into play: Who is playing best down the stretch?

If you want to know why that will be more important in football than in the basketball NCAA tournament – which threw out a team’s record over the last 10 games as a criterion years ago – look no further than the first playoff. Way back in 2014. Ohio State was playing great in November and December, beating Michigan State in East Lansing and destroying Wisconsin in the Big Ten title game. The committee rewarded the Buckeyes for that, and they justified their selection by winning the whole thing.

If it worked last year, don’t be surprised if it’s a major factor this year.

“It’s not March Madness,” Herbstreit said. “It’s not just résumé and metrics. It’s who is playing the best ball at the right time. Those things matter to me.

“I look at how they’re playing, who’s trending, who’s the hot team. Who is like Ohio State last year? I look at who do you not want to play: that Oklahoma team I saw the other night, that was a really good team.”

The Sooners were indeed very good in beating Baylor on the road – but they also faced the Bears’ backup quarterback, freshman Jarrett Stidham, making his second career start. They could get a second stroke of good fortune this week if TCU star quarterback Trevone Boykin cannot play because of injury. Oklahoma could face another freshman, Forest Sawyer, who completed just one pass last Saturday against Kansas – but it was 42 yards for a touchdown.

If it plays out that way for Oklahoma, Notre Dame would theoretically have another argument on its side. But the Sooners (or Cowboys) would likely be the hotter team if they survive the November round-robin of Big 12 showdown games.

However, not all hot teams are loved equally. Take North Carolina, for instance.

The Tar Heels just smashed Duke and Miami by a combined 125-52 and have won nine straight since losing their opener. Yet they’ve advanced only to 17th in the CFP rankings. Perhaps that’s because the one loss was a really bad one, to seven-loss South Carolina, and perhaps because Carolina played two FCS teams, something no Power 5 school should do. Either way, the 9-1, hot-as-blazes Heels have a lot of clutter to get through if they want to have any shot at the playoff.

The more likely scenario is a Notre Dame-Big 12 duel. And if it comes down to Notre Dame vs. Oklahoma, with 1,748 victories and 16 national titles between them, that would be pretty fascinating.
 
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IrishLion

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What else is he supposed to say? Clearly it's a factor and always will be.

He isn't going to come out and say Oklahoma winning out will be enough to overcome the Texas loss.

He's not supposed to say anything else? I was answering the post about the gap between 4 and 5, and providing evidence why that might hold even if OU moves up.
 

ulukinatme

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I'm with gk on this one. Don't understand how anyone is confident here.

The assumption that ND will remain at 4 regardless of Big 12 outcomes is only valid if you think that there is currently a WIDE gap in the current rankings between ND and 5/6/7. If we assume that the committee thinks the Sooners are at least comparable to ND, then it isn't unreasonable to think that they would jump us after picking up a top 20 win, a top 10 win, and a conference title.

Basically I think we are good if the committee is tiering the teams as 1-4, wide gap, then 5-7. We are in trouble if they are tiering the teams as 1-3, wide gap, then 4-7. My gut says it's the latter and not the former.

I think it's safe to assume that 4-7 are very close. Oklahoma might as well be #5 right now because Iowa will likely lose and fall in the championship, and OK St will likely lose to the Sooners as well. After that Bedlam game, depending on what happens with Stanford, things will be dicey. The fact we're ahead of two unbeatens right now is just luck with the schedule. If Navy or Temple were bad this year, we may be sitting at #6 or #7. I would still rather take my chance with Oklahoma with each of us being 11-1 rather than hoping to stay ahead of an OK St at 12-0, because there's no way the committee won't jump them over us at 12-0.
 

tussin

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The other key thing that no one is really mentioning is how important the eye test will be during the final few weeks.

Unlike early season games, the entire committee is going to be watching every game that the top teams play. Oklahoma has higher profile games and (assuming they win) will light up the scoreboard against TCU and OKSt. Given that the Stanford game will likely be ugly and physical, I think it's imperative that we go out and whitewash BC this weekend.
 

wizards8507

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Basically I think we are good if the committee is tiering the teams as 1-4, wide gap, then 5-7. We are in trouble if they are tiering the teams as 1-3, wide gap, then 4-7. My gut says it's the latter and not the former.
People are also ignoring the fact that there's a wide gap TODAY, not necessarily a wide gap on December 6. They're not saying "there's a wide gap and there will continue to be a wide gap assuming everyone wins out." A gap can close mighty fast if Notre Dame beats BC by 4 and Oklahoma runs TCU out of the stadium.
 

IrishLion

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People are also ignoring the fact that there's a wide gap TODAY, not necessarily a wide gap on December 6. They're not saying "there's a wide gap and there will continue to be a wide gap assuming everyone wins out." A gap can close mighty fast if Notre Dame beats BC by 4 and Oklahoma runs TCU out of the stadium.

I think there will remain a slight gap, especially if Stanford is 9-2 heading into the game against ND and ND pulls out the win.

I don't think the committee respects the Big XII at all. Oklahoma is the exception, but even then, the overall resumes would seem to favor ND, and the tipping factor would be the common opponent.

All of this is moot if OKST wins out, of course.
 

D-BOE34

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People are also ignoring the fact that there's a wide gap TODAY, not necessarily a wide gap on December 6. They're not saying "there's a wide gap and there will continue to be a wide gap assuming everyone wins out." A gap can close mighty fast if Notre Dame beats BC by 4 and Oklahoma runs TCU out of the stadium.

I feel if we beat BC by 24, that gap will stay wide from #4 to #5. So that is where I am at right now.

In the end, I think we only need 2 things to happen.

1.) We win our last games by double digits

2.) OK State loses
 

gkIrish

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The single best thing that can happen this weekend is for Baylor to beat Oklahoma St.

I think that would significantly decrease the odds that a Big 12 team gets in.
 
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