Chuck Martin has no idea what he is doing

[Irishman77]

My frustration has come with the lack of creativity and ingenuity. Rees is Rees. He completely limits our offense by not being a running threat and not having the arm strength to beat you consistently down the field. I would have thought that four weeks into the season we would have seen different formations or plays that help keep the D honest. We have not, and Kelly seems to be OK with the idea of winning and losing with Tommy.

At the end of the day, our Red Zone efficiency is going to nip us in the butt. We have to be more consistent and creative.

Also, the "Fire Martin" sentiment was very, very strong this weekend in Section 135.

I agree. I would love to see a red zone pkg with Hendrix running some option.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

LOL we gained 220 yards (before penalties). I'd hardly say that Tommy won for most of the game.

We got +70 penalty yards from PI and defensive holding calls on State's DBs. You don't think Rees had anything to do with that?

My frustration has come with the lack of creativity and ingenuity. Rees is Rees. He completely limits our offense by not being a running threat and not having the arm strength to beat you consistently down the field.

Then how was he managing to consistently overthrow his WRs last Saturday?

At the end of the day, our Red Zone efficiency is going to nip us in the butt. We have to be more consistent and creative.

Our redzone efficiency was 66% against State.

 

[ryno 24]

Whiskey you are partially right. Rees did not play well, but we know what we are getting with Rees and they are doing what they can with his skill set to win. It is ugly to watch, but he does help us win most games.

 

[CarrollVermin]

We got +70 penalty yards from PI and defensive holding calls on State's DBs. You don't think Rees had anything to do with that?



Then how was he managing to consistently overthrow his WRs last Saturday?



Our redzone efficiency was 66% against State.

Arm strength is relative. Don't see him completing the bombs that EG threw last season against Wake, OU, and MSU. Plus, you can throw it all you want, if its not on target, which it seems you point out, it does not make a difference if he can chuck it 30 yards down field.

On an aside...why are we in an empty backfield on 3rd and 1?

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I still question the zone blocking scheme in college at times. You don't really have the luxury of the same OL playing together year after year like in the NFL.

There's also a lot of onus on the RB in zone. That's why Cam looks to be the most effective back right now. His quick feet and ability to read the D on the fly and hit the right hole is under-estimated.

GAIII simply lacks the fluidity needed to rise to the next level. He runs with passion but goes down easily and rarely gets the chance to switch gears.

Amir is not as fast/explosive as we all built him up to be. He is certainly a threat in the running and passing game but I think our expectations for him got gassed a bit.

No one can say the answer lies between Folston and Bryant. We just don't know how they practice/learn.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Then how was he managing to consistently overthrow his WRs last Saturday?

There was a lot of wind.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I still question the zone blocking scheme in college at times. You don't really have the luxury of the same OL playing together year after year like in the NFL.

There's also a lot of onus on the RB in zone. That's why Cam looks to be the most effective back right now. His quick feet and ability to read the D on the fly and hit the right hole is under-estimated.

GAIII simply lacks the fluidity needed to rise to the next level. He runs with passion but goes down easily and rarely gets the chance to switch gears.

Amir is not as fast/explosive as we all built him up to be. He is certainly a threat in the running and passing game but I think our expectations for him got gassed a bit.

No one can say the answer lies between Folston and Bryant. We just don't know how they practice/learn.

To me, it is a mentality. I prefer my OL to line up and come straight at you with the attitude that I am a bigger man than you and I will pancake your ***.

With that said, I think both man and zone can work if the OL execute. We are not executing at a high level right now. Additionally, as you pointed out, our current RB fleet appears to have strengths that are outside the zone scheme.

I do like what I saw from Folston against MSU. He ran really hard and did not want to come out of the game. I think he looked like the best back running the ball against MSU.

 

[irishff1014]

Whiskey you are partially right. Rees did not play well, but we know what we are getting with Rees and they are doing what they can with his skill set to win. It is ugly to watch, but he does help us win most games.

What are you people drinking?

They could line up 3 wide on the right 1 on the left with a back in the backfield.

Have 1 of the 3 run a slant, 1 run an out, with the third one running deep.

There is so much they could do in the passing game that doesn't take rocket science. I am sure all of you see the same thing.

 

[woolybug25]

LOL we gained 220 yards (before penalties). I'd hardly say that Tommy won for most of the game.

As Whiskey said, throwing to obvious 1on1's where there is high probability of a catch or PI is a good strategy. It worked.

I wasn't even talking about that when I said, "won" though. I was talking about getting in proper formations and winning the battles he was having with Burroughs in regards to formation adjustments. Tommy, despite excellent formation adjustments by Burroughs, got our guys in obvious 1on1's. Which was his job. He won the adjustment battle more times than not.

When someone posts, LOL vs lol... does that mean you are laughing out loud louder? jk

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I am all for Tommy checking if he sees a blitz but didn't he check on something like 75% of the plays against UM? Have you seen anyone else in CFB do that? Honest question. It's pretty well known that teams are going to make Tommy throw to beat them so shouldn't we like have a strategy for that so he isn't switching the play 3/4 times?

 

[IrishLax]

I thought NDaccountant had a really good post above that everyone should check out. This team is very similar to the 2011 team on many different levels, but the personnel is probably worse (or simply just younger/more inexperienced) across the board.

I think Michigan 2013 was our USF. USF brought their A+ game against ND, and then ND exacerbated the problem by crucial turnovers/penalties. The same thing happened this year aganst Michigan... perfect storm of incredible plays by Gardner, costly turnovers leading directly to points, and some crucial penalties. ND in 2011 was 8-5 but it wasn't for lack of fielding a pretty darn solid squad. The losses were to 11-2 Michigan, 10-2 USC, 11-2 Stanford, and 9-4 Florida State who was very talented and we were beating until Floyd got hurt. It's also important to remember that the 2011 D > 2013 D on a number of fronts. 2013 sure as hell doesn't have a Harrison Smith level safety or Manti Te'o on the field... even an NFL caliber CB like Darrin Walls would be a big plus.

Much like 2011, our problem will be our schedule. ASU and Oklahoma are both bad matchups. Stanford should eat our OL alive. USC and BYU both have very good Ds. It's going to be very difficult to do better than 8-4.

If we were going to do better than 8-4, it would've been on the back of an explosive offense. I think the coaches expected us to be able to run the ball better and that's just not happening. I do hope they realize that it is equal parts predictability and execution, and that with more deception/creativity they'd have more ways to get explosive plays. But short of the O taking a miraculous big step forward somehow... whether different play calling, some Hendrix/Zaire, or who knows what... it's just going to be very hard to win 9+ games because the D isn't designed to shut teams out like last year.

 

[CarrollVermin]

Issue this year will be our running game, or lack thereof. Now, if the line is able to come together and we get consistent production from the QB that should help to open it up. We had these issues at the beginning of last season (save Navy) where we were unable to run the ball until EG was able to be consistent in the passing game and became a runner himself. We don't have the latter luxury this year.

However, I am not buying the "stack the box" argument. Many of the fronts that MSU gave us were 7 in the box. We have to be able to run the ball against 7, otherwise it will be a very long season.

 

[IrishLax]

Issue this year will be our running game, or lack thereof. Now, if the line is able to come together and we get consistent production from the QB that should help to open it up. We had these issues at the beginning of last season (save Navy) where we were unable to run the ball until EG was able to be consistent in the passing game and became a runner himself. We don't have the latter luxury this year.

However, I am not buying the "stack the box" argument. Many of the fronts that MSU gave us were 7 in the box. We have to be able to run the ball against 7, otherwise it will be a very long season.

Yeah, we've seen a lot of 6/7 in the box setups. Very few 8 in the box. The running is bad because it's both predictable and our OL has not played consistently well.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yeah, we've seen a lot of 6/7 in the box setups. Very few 8 in the box. The running is bad because it's both predictable and our OL has not played consistently well.

Bingo.

You don't need 7 in the box if all 7 know it is a run and can key off the first two steps of the OL/QB/RB.

Besides, the DB's are crashing the run whether they line up in the box or not. While the front may be 7, it really is an 8 or 9 due to telegraphing plays.

 

[wizards8507]

I agree. I would love to see a red zone pkg with Hendrix running some option.

Option in the redzone with a cold QB? Which back are you going to use? The slow one, the skinny one, the bricks-for-hands, or the freshman? That strategy is the perfect way to recreate USF 2011.

 

[wizards8507]

You don't need 7 in the box if all 7 know it is a run and can key off the first two steps of the OL/QB/RB.

Seriously. Then we try to run that hideous counter/trap play that takes ten seconds to develop and loses two yards every time. GAIII hit a homerun on that play ONCE last season and we've fallen in love with it ever since.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

@BGI_AndrewOwens: #NotreDame's 114 rushing YPG ranks 100th. The 31 attempts per game are tied for 109th. ND hasn't eclipsed 100-yard mark the past 3 games.

 

[Patulski]

Here's what I find interesting:

Kelly has had three years with Rees' limitations and he still is not going to change how he wants to call his offense, particularly in the first half, that he uses with immobile QB's. The offense he is running is very similar to what he ran with Tony Pike at Cincinnatii.

Knowing Rees' history, many coaches, and fans, would have designed a run heavy offense with a short passing game and play action to minimize Rees' role in the offense. Not Kelly. He is running a wide open, pass to open up the run offense. You load up the box, he's going to grip it and rip it.

It doesn't matter if the fans think Rees is limited and cannot carry the load, Kelly is challenging Rees to be better and not backing down one bit. Some people would characterize it as stubbornness, others as a coach that is successful precisely because he challenges his players to overcome their limitations.

I suspect it simply is not in Kelly's DNA to build an offense around anybody's limitations. His entire mantra is to get better, and he is still expecting Rees to get better. Whether the season is great or average will ride on Rees. But Kelly is not flinching and if Rees does rise to the challenge, we could win out. If he doesn't, we could lose 3-4 games. It is going to be an interesting ride.

 

[Patulski]

I am all for Tommy checking if he sees a blitz but didn't he check on something like 75% of the plays against UM? Have you seen anyone else in CFB do that? Honest question. It's pretty well known that teams are going to make Tommy throw to beat them so shouldn't we like have a strategy for that so he isn't switching the play 3/4 times?

I think he is calling pass protections. I don't think he audibles much, though I do think he throws hot routes on blitzes.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I think he is calling pass protections. I don't think he audibles much, though I do think he throws hot routes on blitzes.

That's fair

 

[CarrollVermin]

Here's what I find interesting:

Kelly has had three years with Rees' limitations and he still is not going to change how he wants to call his offense, particularly in the first half, that he uses with immobile QB's. The offense he is running is very similar to what he ran with Tony Pike at Cincinnatii.

Knowing Rees' history, many coaches, and fans, would have designed a run heavy offense with a short passing game and play action to minimize Rees' role in the offense. Not Kelly. He is running a wide open, pass to open up the run offense. You load up the box, he's going to grip it and rip it.

It doesn't matter if the fans think Rees is limited and cannot carry the load, Kelly is challenging Rees to be better and not backing down one bit. Some people would characterize it as stubbornness, others as a coach that is successful precisely because he challenges his players to overcome their limitations.

I suspect it simply is not in Kelly's DNA to build an offense around anybody's limitations. His entire mantra is to get better, and he is still expecting Rees to get better. Whether the season is great or average will ride on Rees. But Kelly is not flinching and if Rees does rise to the challenge, we could win out. If he doesn't, we could lose 3-4 games. It is going to be an interesting ride.

I would suspect that you are correct in forming a run heavy offense around Rees. The issue is an inexperienced offensive line and tight ends that perhaps are not up to our typical run block standard.

 

[Woneone]

Here's what I find interesting:

Kelly has had three years with Rees' limitations and he still is not going to change how he wants to call his offense, particularly in the first half, that he uses with immobile QB's. The offense he is running is very similar to what he ran with Tony Pike at Cincinnatii.

Knowing Rees' history, many coaches, and fans, would have designed a run heavy offense with a short passing game and play action to minimize Rees' role in the offense. Not Kelly. He is running a wide open, pass to open up the run offense. You load up the box, he's going to grip it and rip it.

It doesn't matter if the fans think Rees is limited and cannot carry the load, Kelly is challenging Rees to be better and not backing down one bit. Some people would characterize it as stubbornness, others as a coach that is successful precisely because he challenges his players to overcome their limitations.

I suspect it simply is not in Kelly's DNA to build an offense around anybody's limitations. His entire mantra is to get better, and he is still expecting Rees to get better. Whether the season is great or average will ride on Rees. But Kelly is not flinching and if Rees does rise to the challenge, we could win out. If he doesn't, we could lose 3-4 games. It is going to be an interesting ride.

Kelly may have had 3 years to diagnose Rees's limitations, but he really only had 3 weeks to adjust after Golson got kicked out (if memory serves on the timeline). I really believe that what we've seen to this point was all designed with the idea that Golson would be the QB.

I think some of the things you see, like the Pistol, are really hold-overs from what they wanted to do with Golson at the helm. Instead of "reinvent the wheel", I think he's trying to do the best square peg, round hole job he can with Rees at the helm.

I really am holding out hope that it gets better as the year goes on, as they adjust more and more. We'll see.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I thought NDaccountant had a really good post above that everyone should check out. This team is very similar to the 2011 team on many different levels, but the personnel is probably worse (or simply just younger/more inexperienced) across the board.

I think Michigan 2013 was our USF. USF brought their A+ game against ND, and then ND exacerbated the problem by crucial turnovers/penalties. The same thing happened this year aganst Michigan... perfect storm of incredible plays by Gardner, costly turnovers leading directly to points, and some crucial penalties. ND in 2011 was 8-5 but it wasn't for lack of fielding a pretty darn solid squad. The losses were to 11-2 Michigan, 10-2 USC, 11-2 Stanford, and 9-4 Florida State who was very talented and we were beating until Floyd got hurt. It's also important to remember that the 2011 D > 2013 D on a number of fronts. 2013 sure as hell doesn't have a Harrison Smith level safety or Manti Te'o on the field... even an NFL caliber CB like Darrin Walls would be a big plus.

Much like 2011, our problem will be our schedule. ASU and Oklahoma are both bad matchups. Stanford should eat our OL alive. USC and BYU both have very good Ds. It's going to be very difficult to do better than 8-4.

If we were going to do better than 8-4, it would've been on the back of an explosive offense. I think the coaches expected us to be able to run the ball better and that's just not happening. I do hope they realize that it is equal parts predictability and execution, and that with more deception/creativity they'd have more ways to get explosive plays. But short of the O taking a miraculous big step forward somehow... whether different play calling, some Hendrix/Zaire, or who knows what... it's just going to be very hard to win 9+ games because the D isn't designed to shut teams out like last year.

Walls wasn't on the team in 2011, he graduated. The CB's were Gray and Blanton. And quite frankly, I cannot accept this. Saying that ND had more talent defensively in 2011 is a straight up lie. They have way too much talent this year with players half-assing on plays. Calabrese says he's improved his speed by trimming down. I haven't seen it. He looks slower than ever. Tuitt has been a complete non-factor. Nix has been solid, but that's been it. Shumate, Jackson, Farley, Russell. All of them are getting beat by receiver after receiver and there is NO excuse for that. They are much faster and much more experienced this year. If they get beat by a Marqise Lee or Jeremy Gallon, that is one thing, but I saw MSU receivers getting open constantly. Seriously, HOW DO YOU GET SLOWER THAN MOTTA!? It's really perplexing how this defense dropped off. This defense better straighten up and get their head out of their ***, because their play so far is NOT ACCEPTABLE. They escaped last week because the Spartan receiver's couldn't catch a cold in a snowstorm...at the North Pole...on Pluto. Just a disgraceful group all together so far. Please prove me wrong. I dare you! Prove me wrong Tuitt, Calabrese, Shumate, Jackson, Russell. Prove me wrong.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I didn't read the last two pages so yell at me if needed. But, it seem that it take 3-4 years for a player to learn the mystical 'full' playbook. Than at that time they either don't pan out or think to much when they are on the field. We have athletes and speed that we haven't had in some time on offense, let them loose. Let them play.

 

[PANDFAN]

Here's what I find interesting:

Kelly has had three years with Rees' limitations and he still is not going to change how he wants to call his offense, particularly in the first half, that he uses with immobile QB's. The offense he is running is very similar to what he ran with Tony Pike at Cincinnatii.

Knowing Rees' history, many coaches, and fans, would have designed a run heavy offense with a short passing game and play action to minimize Rees' role in the offense. Not Kelly. He is running a wide open, pass to open up the run offense. You load up the box, he's going to grip it and rip it.

It doesn't matter if the fans think Rees is limited and cannot carry the load, Kelly is challenging Rees to be better and not backing down one bit. Some people would characterize it as stubbornness, others as a coach that is successful precisely because he challenges his players to overcome their limitations.

I suspect it simply is not in Kelly's DNA to build an offense around anybody's limitations. His entire mantra is to get better, and he is still expecting Rees to get better. Whether the season is great or average will ride on Rees. But Kelly is not flinching and if Rees does rise to the challenge, we could win out. If he doesn't, we could lose 3-4 games. It is going to be an interesting ride.

dude i have always lumped you into the NDnation on IE but man that was just spot on w/ how i feel about Kelly and challenging his players..he has done it w. all the big stars since his tenure here at ND

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I know i sound like a broken record but seriously, the pistol is terrible and makes zero sense to me. 3 and 1 running back 7 yards deep and we blast it up the gut? At what point does kelly take over? There is no way he is ok with whats going on. If he is then we have HUGE issues well beyond chuck martin and his horrendous play calling. But one more opening series dive for zero then a WR screen for minus two then a incomplete bomb to daniels im going to have a stroke.

 

[tko]

I know i sound like a broken record but seriously, the pistol is terrible and makes zero sense to me. 3 and 1 running back 7 yards deep and we blast it up the gut? At what point does kelly take over? There is no way he is ok with whats going on. If he is then we have HUGE issues well beyond chuck martin and his horrendous play calling. But one more opening series dive for zero then a WR screen for minus two then a incomplete bomb to daniels im going to have a stroke.

Wish your loved ones the best because that stroke is coming.

 

[Bluto]

Wish your loved ones the best because that stroke is coming.

That's funny. Run them in reverse order?

 

[IrishLax]

Walls wasn't on the team in 2011, he graduated. The CB's were Gray and Blanton. And quite frankly, I cannot accept this. Saying that ND had more talent defensively in 2011 is a straight up lie.

You're right, it was Blanton not Walls. Still "straight up lie" seems a little harsh... ND has a pro bowl caliber safety in Harrison Smith, an NFL caliber player in Blanton, two very good players at safety in Slaughter pre-injury and Motta, Darius Fleming who was quite good, the most decorated player in the history of college football in Manti Te'o... the 2013 defense is missing all of that, and retains only Shembo and Calabrese/Fox. Jaylon Smith will be a great player down the road, but there's really no question that the back end with the LBs and DBs was much better in 2011. What about the DL? We ran with Ethan Johnson, KLM, Nix, Cwynar, Tuitt, and Lynch. That's probably worse than this year's incarnation of Nix, Tuitt, and Day... but not much. If you extrapolate talent to everyone's peak, there is really no doubt that 2011 was at least comparable if not better because of the extra talent at LB and safety.

They have way too much talent this year with players half-assing on plays. Calabrese says he's improved his speed by trimming down. I haven't seen it. He looks slower than ever. Tuitt has been a complete non-factor. Nix has been solid, but that's been it. Shumate, Jackson, Farley, Russell. All of them are getting beat by receiver after receiver and there is NO excuse for that. They are much faster and much more experienced this year. If they get beat by a Marqise Lee or Jeremy Gallon, that is one thing, but I saw MSU receivers getting open constantly. Seriously, HOW DO YOU GET SLOWER THAN MOTTA!? It's really perplexing how this defense dropped off. This defense better straighten up and get their head out of their ***, because their play so far is NOT ACCEPTABLE. They escaped last week because the Spartan receiver's couldn't catch a cold in a snowstorm...at the North Pole...on Pluto. Just a disgraceful group all together so far. Please prove me wrong. I dare you! Prove me wrong Tuitt, Calabrese, Shumate, Jackson, Russell. Prove me wrong.

I mean... in this rant, aren't you kind of making the point that they aren't as good as the players in 2011?

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

That's funny. Run them in reverse order?

That might actually make me feel better ha!