BVG Fired

[Sherm Sticky]

http://thespun.com/independents/notre-dame/brian-vangorder-kelly-notre-dame


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phgreek]

On offense I could see that. I took it to mean the D went into that game having to know that many individual alignments with associated stunts and or responsibilities because all of the people on the show thought it was crazy.

its hard to say...I think you might have basic sets, and then rules for coverage depending on stunts, blitzes, situations. So you can run up a number of variations pretty quickly, for sure. Seems like every time I ever coached kids that were confused...it wasn't the volume of information...it was teaching in a way that allows them to relate and build. If each responsibility is an Island, you are destined for problems.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

It can't hurt if you sign:

https://www.change.org/p/university-of-notre-dame-fire-brian-vangorder


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phgreek]

It can't hurt if you sign:

https://www.change.org/p/university-of-notre-dame-fire-brian-vangorder


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think I could bring myself to sign this. I think he needs to go, but I also think this kind of stuff turns into a distraction. The Trustees and Alum with $$$$ will likely apply the pressure behind the scenes and allow things to not look like a dumpster fire organizationally. Yes the defense is a dumpster fire...but the entire program doesn't have to go up.

 

[Cali_domer]

It can't hurt if you sign:

https://www.change.org/p/university-of-notre-dame-fire-brian-vangorder


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Signed

 

[NDgradstudent]

Yes the defense is a dumpster fire...but the entire program doesn't have to go up.

The fish rots from the head.

 

[Bluto]

its hard to say...I think you might have basic sets, and then rules for coverage depending on stunts, blitzes, situations. So you can run up a number of variations pretty quickly, for sure. Seems like every time I ever coached kids that were confused...it wasn't the volume of information...it was teaching in a way that allows them to relate and build. If each responsibility is an Island, you are destined for problems.

Yeah, considering they couldn't even play basic Cover 3 effectively against Texas I took it to mean more like the last sentence reads. I get what you're saying about volume. It needs to be progressive and each piece builds on the previous with a logical progression. This d just seems to be a mish mash of all kinds of concepts and stunts that lack a core identity other than "being aggressive". ISD also talked about how the defense was doing install all spring and pretty much until the end of fall camp and speculated that might have left little time to focus on and or review some of the basic fundamentals. To use a music analogy it seems like Vangorder skipped over trying to teach his team how to play the Ramones or AC DC and tried to get them to play Slayer right out of the gate.

 

[phgreek]

Yeah, considering they couldn't even play basic Cover 3 effectively against Texas I took it to mean more like the last sentence reads. I get what you're saying about volume. It needs to be progressive and each piece builds on the previous with a logical progression. This d just seems to be a mish mash of all kinds of concepts and stunts that lack a core identity other than "being aggressive". ISD also talked about how the defense was doing install all spring and pretty much until the end of fall camp and speculated that might have left little time to focus on and or review some of the basic fundamentals. To use a music analogy it seems like Vangorder skipped over trying to teach his team how to play the Ramones or AC DC and tried to get them to play Slayer right out of the gate.

didn't Vangorder see the 85 bears...where Ryan cut the playbook in half, and then they killed everyone...I think BVG's Singletary is in the NFL now(Smith)...so prolly too late for that.

I think you are right on with the importance of identity, and building out from there. Like the Music analogy BTW.

 

[philipm31]

What are you talking about. You wither didn't read the post I quoted and responded to, or quoted the wrong post.

My response was in regards to Kelly being able to win at lower levels. The competition is different. Whether it be the opposing coaches or the players. He had no issues winning against trams and coaches that were not any good. Now he's in big boy football and can't do it.

I was not responding to you, dude. I clearly was responding to Sherm, who said that ND changes coaches, for better or worse.

 

[philipm31]

What are you talking about. You wither didn't read the post I quoted and responded to, or quoted the wrong post.

My response was in regards to Kelly being able to win at lower levels. The competition is different. Whether it be the opposing coaches or the players. He had no issues winning against trams and coaches that were not any good. Now he's in big boy football and can't do it.

I agree with what you are saying, but as it was your response to Sherm's post, it is clear the main point of my post was that his post made no sense to me, while yours did, because it addressed the issue that he has trouble with better competition--and that it would not just be ND changing coaches, "for better or worse lol," but actually dealing with the reality that BK A) Can NOT win at this level and B) replacements need to be investigated since it is unlikely that BK fulfills his extension and C) ND can do better.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I agree with what you are saying, but as it was your response to Sherm's post, it is clear the main point of my post was that his post made no sense to me, while yours did, because it addressed the issue that he has trouble with better competition--and that it would not just be ND changing coaches, "for better or worse lol," but actually dealing with the reality that BK A) Can NOT win at this level and B) replacements need to be investigated since it is unlikely that BK fulfills his extension and C) ND can do better.

Honestly I read what I wrote and it makes no sense to me either. Not sure what I was trying to say. Apologies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ThePiombino]

lol @ anyone and everyone who genuinely believe he would be fired by today

 

[Irish Insanity]

Who was the last "really bad team" we lost to? And don't say Texas. It's too early to know what they are. Northwestern in 2014, I suppose. And before that?
We've struggled to beat good teams the last couple of years, I agree. But I remember when we lost to bad teams on the regular, and this isn't that.

Maybe 'really bad teams' is a strong statement. How about just teams we shouldn't. As far as the past, why does everyone use the 'remember how bad it was' angle. Its better than it was. I wouldn't be ok being in anew abusive relationship just because it's not as bad as the ones in the past. Just because it used to be bad doesn't mean we can't strive for, and get, a great coach who can get us over the top.

 

[Wingman Ray]

If BK is forced to fire his first assistant during his time at ND I wonder how much longer he sticks around. This is the first time he's experienced such negative backlash on the job and I could see it pissing him off and him bailing.

Then by all means, please get out. If his ego is such that he cant handle when he completely 100% drops the ball, then by all means scram guy. Real men accept blame and fix the problem not make excuses and get pissed when people rightly point the finger at them.

ND will always recruit because it is ND. BK hasnt done anything special to make people want to play for him. Harry H develops the OL not BK.

 

[Booslum31]

They are keeping this marriage together...for the kids.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Of course when Marotti was at ND, people complained about him. His results were great at UF and OSU but he's had some amazing talent to work with.

Wasn't he in charge of like every single sport or something crazy at that time? I'm not necessarily old enough (33) to remember, what were the complaints?

 

[Dizzyphil]

My thoughts on Van Gorder

1-4 in the last 5 games Irish have played
178 points against Defense in those 5 games

Not a good defense with good players....

 

[GrangerIrish24]

My USC game prediction is Swarbrick and Swann rent a car for BVG and Helton and let them drive to the unemployment office together.

 

[Irishman77]

Watch when Kelly tries to communicate with him. BVG never looks at him or acknowledges him. I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Kelly has some major issues and it is infected the entire hierarchy.

 

[TDHeysus]

My USC game prediction is Swarbrick and Swann rent a car for BVG and Helton and let them drive to the unemployment office together.

thats a good cost saving measure....I like that

 

[Black Irish]

Watch when Kelly tries to communicate with him. BVG never looks at him or acknowledges him. I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Kelly has some major issues and it is infected the entire hierarchy.

Maybe BVG just doesn't listen to anyone. Probably part of the problem. "My way or the Highway" is fine as a credo as long as it produces results. Kelly needs to tighten that lease hard.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Maybe BVG just doesn't listen to anyone. Probably part of the problem. "My way or the Highway" is fine as a credo as long as it produces results. Kelly needs to tighten that lease hard.

I can definitely see that in BVG. Here you have a DC that doesnt recruit. How do you recruit defensive players and your DC who is calling the defense doesnt recruit? Seems like BVG has a list of my way of doing things that one may be able to accept if he produced winning defenses, not this rag of a middle school defense that ND has now.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think I could bring myself to sign this. I think he needs to go, but I also think this kind of stuff turns into a distraction. The Trustees and Alum with $$$$ will likely apply the pressure behind the scenes and allow things to not look like a dumpster fire organizationally. Yes the defense is a dumpster fire...but the entire program doesn't have to go up.

Precisely, this isn't good for our football program. It hurts the guys in the locker room and it hurts recruiting. I realize the frustration as I have it myself. However, the more stuff like this that gets put out there, the more it sets us back.

 

[Luckylucci]

Yeah, considering they couldn't even play basic Cover 3 effectively against Texas I took it to mean more like the last sentence reads. I get what you're saying about volume. It needs to be progressive and each piece builds on the previous with a logical progression. This d just seems to be a mish mash of all kinds of concepts and stunts that lack a core identity other than "being aggressive". ISD also talked about how the defense was doing install all spring and pretty much until the end of fall camp and speculated that might have left little time to focus on and or review some of the basic fundamentals. To use a music analogy it seems like Vangorder skipped over trying to teach his team how to play the Ramones or AC DC and tried to get them to play Slayer right out of the gate.

I think a majority of the issues are this. Been saying it for awhile now. The more you have to coach "scheme" and install your playbook. The less time these players are going to have to work on the fundamentals of football. These are 18-23 year old young men, they still need a lot of individual development in regards to football skills and fundamentals. Just like with anything in life, the less you do something, the worse you are going to be at it.

 

[Irish#1]

One of the guys on Power Hour put it out there that a source told him that ND went into the game against Texas with 50-60 defensive play calls...

No wonder the defense can't play. He must come up with one play for every possible offensive play. That may work in the NFL where you have guys for a longer period of time, but when your kids are there 3-4 years, it's going to take that long to learn and remember those defenses.

I can definitely see that in BVG. Here you have a DC that doesnt recruit. How do you recruit defensive players and your DC who is calling the defense doesnt recruit? Seems like BVG has a list of my way of doing things that one may be able to accept if he produced winning defenses, not this rag of a middle school defense that ND has now.

I have to believe BK knew and agreed to his involvement in the actual recruiting before hiring. Can't imagine BK hired him, then BVG tells him he isn't going to recruit except once in a while. HC's are all about the details.

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How has Brian Kelly handled defensive issues in the past? <br><br>“Scored more points.”</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/778267199437959170">September 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

THEN Y U NO LET KIZER WIN GAME>????:"?A>SH>>??

 

[NDRock]

Wasn't he in charge of like every single sport or something crazy at that time? I'm not necessarily old enough (33) to remember, what were the complaints?

I believe he was in charge of the overall S&C program for all sports. I'm not sure how it was broken down by sport and who actually did what.

 

[Irish#1]

I'd accepting apologies for saying Longo should Go 3 years ago and being called a troll for it for.... 3 years. I remember the day, Purdue looked like they were running on acid and our guys in mud.

I forgive you all.

We'll also forgive you for ignoring all of the "Home Improvement" advice you asked for then ignored! lol

 

[irishtrain]

I can definitely see that in BVG. Here you have a DC that doesnt recruit. How do you recruit defensive players and your DC who is calling the defense doesnt recruit? Seems like BVG has a list of my way of doing things that one may be able to accept if he produced winning defenses, not this rag of a middle school defense that ND has now.

He doesn't have the front 7 players but it is news to me that he doesn't recruit-now that is a problem. If he doesn't get envolved in recruiting and we don't have the front 7 guys then something should be changed.

 

[irishknight35]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brian Kelly on Brian VanGorder: “He’s coaching his butt off."</p>— BlueandGold.com (@BGInews) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGInews/status/778271409776816132">September 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>