BVG Fired

[IrishLax]

Yes, I put it on BVG... and Kelly, and the rest of the staff responsible for defense. We all sit on here and look skeptically as we have holes in our recruiting classes year after year. It's not a surprise when that unit doesn't get the job done. The difference between how we recruit QB and OL and how we've recruited DBs and DEs is mind blowing.

Who on our DE could start for Alabama? What about Ohio State and Michigan? And like I said, there's no coach who can fix it. It's going to take at least a full year to overhaul talent back there... and I don't see the answers in this current class of recruits.

 

[IrishLax]

Agreed but... I feel like there was a lot of NFL talent on this team last year. At least as much if not more than 2012. A team with Jaylon, Sheldon, KeiVarae, etc... should have been a lot better on defense than they were last year. To me that's scheme, unless the Schmidts of the defense really brought it down.

Also, there are plenty of programs that compete nationally with very good defenses without a ton of high recruiting talent. Wisconsin comes to mind, as Dave Aranda built an outstanding defense there. Stanford too. These teams definitely could have better talent in the secondary but the overall talent isn't better.

Yeah, last year was a scheme disaster no excuse for playing Schmidt all year. No excuse for not getting more out of safeties or figuring out how to use Farley.

This year the team obviously lacks players and depth, and there is no indication it's getting better any time soon. It's just comically bad.

 

[IrishinSyria]

We don't need our defense to be great just not God awful

 

[WestCoast]

Time is running out on BK,... No matter if you like it or not,... It's pretty much fact,... Look at any other HCs term... If he's going to do it he has to very fvkin soon and I think we can all agree he can't do it with thus fvkin clown.

People will think your post is reactionary, but it's not. It is a simple fact that BK's decision making (whether it be to hire BVG and now keep BVG, play QB games, get too cute with play calling) is going to do him in. "Better get used to it..." was the phrase he used after a ridiculous loss (Tulsa?). In year 7, coordinator issues and recruiting shortfalls are squarely at his feet.

Someone else pointed out that his mindset at Cincinnati was scoring just a few more than his defense allowed. I don't know about that, but it does seem consistent with what he's done at ND.

He seems to be very set in his ways, and his ways continue to yield similar results.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Also, with limited practice time for CFB a more complicated scheme means less time working on fundamentals.

 

[WestCoast]

nvm

 

[ulukinatme]

Come now, not even Chuck Noll? Maybe we can dig up his contact info.

 

[Bluto]

Come now, not even Chuck Noll? Maybe we can dig up his contact info.

Or George Halas. They could be co-coordinators.

Actually, Kelly should go with a "2 coordinator system". Bring in someone else name them co-coordinator and then relegate BVG to just fist pumping when the d makes a play or something.

 

[ulukinatme]

Or George Halas. They could be co-coordinators.

Actually, Kelly should go with a "2 coordinator system". Bring in someone else name them co-coordinator and then relegate BVG to just fist pumping when the d makes a play or something.

They might be better than what we have now at DC...even given their current states

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Really, watching the last 3 games our defense is absolutely horrible. They weren't ready at the end of last year. Now they are not ready at the beginning of this year. This is 100% on BK because he has allowed this to happen. BVG is horrible. The results prove that. So, we are who we are. We have to outscore everyone. Heck, we had issues with BC last year, enough is enough.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

We have the money, go over pay a stud DC. Just go get someone not name BVG.

 

[Bluto]

So thinking back didn't Kelly say that Vangorders aggressive style of defense would allow the offense more opportunities to score? That kind of turned out to be true but in the worst way possible.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Serious question.

Had bvg ever adapt since being at ND? It seems like he showed up with a square peg and is still trying to stuff it a round hole.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

When Will VanGorder Be Fired?

When Will VanGorder Be Fired?

Fire this fucking clown, and do it right fucking now.

 

[NDRock]

Part of the reason we don't have the pieces is because BVG is a shit recruiter.

Look at his stats going against "tempo" teams. It's abysmal. Seems to me it's more than just talent being the problem.

Not sure how you can say "no coach would do better" when he's been terrible when he's had NFL caliber talent.

 

[ulukinatme]

So thinking back didn't Kelly say that Vangorders aggressive style of defense would allow the offense more opportunities to score? That kind of turned out to be true but in the worst way possible.

I think the idea was that we were going to give up SOME big plays, but we'd also get off the field more often (Not lots of long drives that end with goal line stands). Also we'd get more turnovers, in theory.

None of that is really happening though. We're giving up far too many big plays. Teams are getting the ball out fast to avoid any possible pass rush we can muster. We aren't getting turnovers, not in the numbers we need. There are some games where everything clicks and it works, but it's usually against poor offensive coordinators. Michigan 2014 comes to mind.

 

[ulukinatme]

Talent isn't the problem, or shouldn't be. We don't have Alabama talent, but we have enough that we shouldn't be giving up 40+ points a game. We've given up something like 130+ points in the last 3 games.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

It's not scheme, it's talent. Safety position is utterly dreadful, not even MAC level. Corners are OK but asked to do too much without enough help. Front 7 is just OK with some decent talent that flashes at times but is too inconsistent.

Texas is a lot better than people think but that's not really the point. The point is that the team lacks talent. In 2012 we had 5 NFL players in our front 7, and solid players in the back end with a scheme to protect them. Hasn't been the case since.

It's scheme and fundamentals. Would you argue that our current talent level is any worse than what Boise had when they started their climb up the rankings?
We tackle like shit and refuse to wrap up. Our slot coverage seems to think it's ok to stay in his stance and wait to turn and run until after the receiver is already 2 yards past him.
At least 3 times last night the defense was caught standing around instead of being down and ready.

Exotic blitz packages has become the new schematic advantage.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

When Will VanGorder Be Fired?

When Will VanGorder Be Fired?

On no sleep and plenty of adult beverages, its time to draw a line in the sand, and come to a "logical" conclusion:


I'm not posting here again (I know, big whoop) until BVG is fired.

Something broke inside of me last night, and it wasn't the liver. It was a spot I didn't even know existed, and previous ND calamities didn't get to yet.

BVG's defense is about as intimidating as a cloudy day. Eff him. Eff him right in his pussy.

I will forever support the program hell or high water, but refuse to continue to support this mental midget.

It's fucking year 7 for the CEO, if you don't have the personnel needed to conduct your "exotic blitz packages," guess what dickhead, you're never going to.

I digress, and God bless all of you, and our football team. I'm on tilt, and will be for a few days. Somebody PM when the firing happens.

Until then, DEUCES

 

[FLDomer]

On no sleep and plenty of adult beverages, its time to draw a line in the sand, and come to a "logical" conclusion:


I'm not posting here again (I know, big whoop) until BVG is fired.

Something broke inside of me last night, and it wasn't the liver. It was a spot I didn't even know existed, and previous ND calamities didn't get to yet.

BVG's defense is about as intimidating as a cloudy day. Eff him. Eff him right in his pussy.

I will forever support the program hell or high water, but refuse to continue to support this mental midget.

It's fucking year 7 for the CEO, if you don't have the personnel needed to conduct your "exotic blitz packages," guess what dickhead, you're never going to.

I digress, and God bless all of you, and our football team. I'm on tilt, and will be for a few days. Somebody PM when the firing happens.

Until then, DEUCES

You're like the Kapernick of Irish Envy.

 

[ScooterIrish]

It's not scheme, it's talent. Safety position is utterly dreadful, not even MAC level. Corners are OK but asked to do too much without enough help. Front 7 is just OK with some decent talent that flashes at times but is too inconsistent.

Texas is a lot better than people think but that's not really the point. The point is that the team lacks talent. In 2012 we had 5 NFL players in our front 7, and solid players in the back end with a scheme to protect them. Hasn't been the case since.

I didn't read your entire post and you may bring up good points but the scheme is the worst in football and BVG is a major reason for the defense. Don't kid yourself. We had great talent last year and it was a very bad defense. People want to blame talent all the time but BVG and his scheme are awful. You should be banned from discussing ND sports until you realize BVG is a bigger issue than talent.

 

[ScooterIrish]

Yes, I put it on BVG... and Kelly, and the rest of the staff responsible for defense. We all sit on here and look skeptically as we have holes in our recruiting classes year after year. It's not a surprise when that unit doesn't get the job done. The difference between how we recruit QB and OL and how we've recruited DBs and DEs is mind blowing.

Who on our DE could start for Alabama? What about Ohio State and Michigan? And like I said, there's no coach who can fix it. It's going to take at least a full year to overhaul talent back there... and I don't see the answers in this current class of recruits.

Michigan? Jesus Lax. You think they have a ton of talent on defense? Coaching. Period.

 

[dang227]

I can't totally agree. Our defensive recruiting has been below par but teams like Temple do a ton more with a lot less. BVG reuses to put these kids in position to succeed. Fundamentals like tackling are atrocious. Play a bend but don't break like Diaco if you have to. BVG started the game in a nickel defense vs. team that wanted to pound their big tailbacks for godsakes.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I didn't read your entire post and you may bring up good points but the scheme is the worst in football and BVG is a major reason for the defense. Don't kid yourself. We had great talent last year and it was a very bad defense. People want to blame talent all the time but BVG and his scheme are awful. You should be banned from discussing ND sports until you realize BVG is a bigger issue than talent.

The bold is a little much.

I think it's a combination of both talent and coaching. In BVG's scheme, the DL has to be solid, tough, able to stop the run, and occasionally pressure the QB. The LBing corp has to be way above average, be able to fill the gaps, and cover RBs out of the backfield. The secondary has to be able to both zone blitz, play man on the other side, and tackle in space. Just don't see enough of the right talent on the field for ND to do this effectively. Where I fault BVG on this is his inability to either recruit the players for his scheme or his stubbornness to not change or tweek his scheme to compensate.

 

[irishff1014]

I'm not sure what you want the guy to do? The players have to play. We have these 4 * guys at CB, and we can't expect them to play man coverage? So while the safety is helping the CB on the outside receiver, who is covering the slot guy who is running the post? Nyles Morgan? If BVG had a LB covering a post route, people would be having a cow!

It obvious the safeties weren't helping if that's the case the cb's would have had help over the top.

 

[arrowryan]

We're in the same situation with our defense and DC as Texas was last year with their offense and OC. Hopefully we react the same way.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So thinking back didn't Kelly say that Vangorders aggressive style of defense would allow the offense more opportunities to score? That kind of turned out to be true but in the worst way possible.

Unfortunately is allowed the wrong offense plenty of opportunities to score.

 

[kmoose]

It obvious the safeties weren't helping if that's the case the cb's would have had help over the top.

Kelly said in the post game presser that it was a cover 3 defense............ so they were supposed to have help over the top. The coaches can't be on the field pointing out where the guys need to be. They have to execute.

 

[DCirishfan]

Unfortunately is allowed the wrong offense plenty of opportunities to score.

He's terrible

 

[DCirishfan]

It's not scheme, it's talent. Safety position is utterly dreadful, not even MAC level. Corners are OK but asked to do too much without enough help. Front 7 is just OK with some decent talent that flashes at times but is too inconsistent.

Texas is a lot better than people think but that's not really the point. The point is that the team lacks talent. In 2012 we had 5 NFL players in our front 7, and solid players in the back end with a scheme to protect them. Hasn't been the case since.

Yep reminds me of cw