BVG Fired

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Bogtrotter07

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Why is this being discussed right now? Weird bump.

Agreed!

Possible replacements

Luke Fickell
Ron English
Randy Shannon
John Chavis

Rule of thumb : ND's staff gets better every time Ohio State poaches an assistant.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In 4 yrs under DC Bob Diaco, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> allowed 28 plays of 40 yds or more. In 2 years under DC Brian VanGorder, Irish have allowed 31.</p>— Tim Prister (@timprister) <a href="https://twitter.com/timprister/status/766317186428305411">August 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Love you Pan; quote shows my reservations about Prister. It is like Tim (and a few people in this thread) just don't understand. Kelly had more to do with the defensive success or lack there of for the last two seasons, than anybody, but Bob Diaco.

Kelly changed defensive philosophies 180 degrees without any account of what was in the pipeline. Not only were the wrong players in the pipeline, but the flow had slowed to a trickle.

Diaco really fell off his recruiting responsibilities while he was here, and was a bigger ass-clown on the trail than BVG will ever be. Remember Diaco was a "Crootin' Coordinator," too!

Also, anyone want to speculate whose fault all of the injuries were the last two seasons? Because we haven't had anything like them this year. Do you really think it is coincidence?
 

greyhammer90

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Love you Pan; quote shows my reservations about Prister. It is like Tim (and a few people in this thread) just don't understand. Kelly had more to do with the defensive success or lack there of for the last two seasons, than anybody, but Bob Diaco.

Kelly changed defensive philosophies 180 degrees without any account of what was in the pipeline. Not only were the wrong players in the pipeline, but the flow had slowed to a trickle.

Diaco really fell off his recruiting responsibilities while he was here, and was a bigger ass-clown on the trail than BVG will ever be. Remember Diaco was a "Crootin' Coordinator," too!

Also, anyone want to speculate whose fault all of the injuries were the last two seasons? Because we haven't had anything like them this year. Do you really think it is coincidence?

I think you have a very weird axe to grind against Diaco and have ever since you were told that he was a bad hire by your Cincinnati friends. A lot has been said about his being too selective about his recruiting measurements, but the guy put together the best four year stretch of defense at ND that I've seen in my lifetime. He also won a Broyles award and took UConn to a bowl game last year. Implying that Diaco, a defensive coordinator, was responsible for injuries the past two years is ludicrous.

Right now "ass-clown" or not, BVG isn't fit to carry Diaco's jock.
 

Blaise

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I don't think we should try to get a recycled DC if he let BVG go at end of the year... I would like them to do what they did with Mike Sanford... Find a hot shot young up and comer and let him bring an energy and enthusiasm and go big
 

Irish#1

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This is BVG's year to take his neck out of the noose or hang himself. He has "his" players now and they've been in the system long enough to have learned it.
 

woolybug25

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I don't think we should try to get a recycled DC if he let BVG go at end of the year... I would like them to do what they did with Mike Sanford... Find a hot shot young up and comer and let him bring an energy and enthusiasm and go big

Anybody got any thoughts on who would be a guy like this? I honestly don't know.
 

ulukinatme

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Comparing BVG to Diaco is like apples to oranges. For one, they're two completely opposite philosophies. Diaco was the "Bend, don't break" coach, while BVG has been the more aggressive of the two. Second, while Diaco had to deal with a bit of injuries in 2013, nothing like BVG has had in 2014 and 2015, it's been downright ugly. Lastly, BVG has had to mostly make due with players that were recruited for Diaco's system, not his own. 15 CAT linebackers didn't translate into great 4-3 DEs. Even some secondary players like KVR seemed to be more effective in Diaco's system than BVG's.

Ultimately this year will probably decide BVG's fate. I'm not sold on him or anything, but he's taken a lot of criticism for things he can't control like injuries. Our defense needs a mostly healthy season to give him a fair assessment.
 

Rocket89

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Some off the radar names to consider...

Marion Hobby, Clemson Co-DC
Josh Conklin, Pitt DC
Chad Glasgow, TCU DC
Tony Gibson, West Virginia DC
Morgan Scalley, Utah DC

I'd personally put Washington's Pete Kwiatkowski near the top of any future DC search but he'll be tough to pry away from Chris Petersen.
 

Rocket89

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Find a hot shot young up and comer and let him bring an energy and enthusiasm and go big

These are about as rare as anything in college football. It's such a volatile position--much harder to remain consistently dominant on defense rather than offense--and the DNA needed for that job usually doesn't lend itself to people who love to recruit.

Think about it, Diaco was like 85% of the way to this type of young hotshot DC and he was loathed by many around ND by mid-2013.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I think you have a very weird axe to grind against Diaco and have ever since you were told that he was a bad hire by your Cincinnati friends. A lot has been said about his being too selective about his recruiting measurements, but the guy put together the best four year stretch of defense at ND that I've seen in my lifetime. He also won a Broyles award and took UConn to a bowl game last year. Implying that Diaco, a defensive coordinator, was responsible for injuries the past two years is ludicrous.

Right now "ass-clown" or not, BVG isn't fit to carry Diaco's jock.

No axe. My thing with Diaco was his elitist attitude, which affected the atmosphere around him. I guess you either love that, or you hate it. And I have heard story after story about people Bob pissed off at ND. I don't want to get into details, but someone out their could verify that it includes recruits that we didn't get, players, parents, and other coaches. You just cannot have that in a program like ND.

As far as his defense, and I thought I was clear on this, Bob's bend but don't break, works better with the resources at a UND than it does at a UC, (from a recruiting and personnel standpoint.) So that was most of their problem with him.

And, I don't know why anyone has a problem with BVG, other than he doesn't have the same smooth presentation that a Bobby D, does.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sn_xWCuVgX4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I mean if you watch this, how can you not just love this guy?

I don't get it. I remember on media day when Bobby used to talk about baking recipes or something!

Comparing BVG to Diaco is like apples to oranges. For one, they're two completely opposite philosophies. Diaco was the "Bend, don't break" coach, while BVG has been the more aggressive of the two. Second, while Diaco had to deal with a bit of injuries in 2013,* nothing like BVG has had in 2014 and 2015, it's been downright ugly. Lastly, BVG has had to mostly make due with players that were recruited for Diaco's system, not his own. 15 CAT linebackers didn't translate into great 4-3 DEs. Even some secondary players like KVR seemed to be more effective in Diaco's system than BVG's.

Ultimately this year will probably decide BVG's fate. I'm not sold on him or anything, but he's taken a lot of criticism for things he can't control like injuries. Our defense needs a mostly healthy season to give him a fair assessment.

* The height of the 2013 injury rash was against Navy, when the entire defense was aligned in a two point stance and Navy switched from option blocking to straight-ahead man blocking, and used the entire ND defense as blocking/tackling dummies.
 
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Luckylucci

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Comparing BVG to Diaco is like apples to oranges. For one, they're two completely opposite philosophies. Diaco was the "Bend, don't break" coach, while BVG has been the more aggressive of the two. Second, while Diaco had to deal with a bit of injuries in 2013, nothing like BVG has had in 2014 and 2015, it's been downright ugly. Lastly, BVG has had to mostly make due with players that were recruited for Diaco's system, not his own. 15 CAT linebackers didn't translate into great 4-3 DEs. Even some secondary players like KVR seemed to be more effective in Diaco's system than BVG's.

Ultimately this year will probably decide BVG's fate. I'm not sold on him or anything, but he's taken a lot of criticism for things he can't control like injuries. Our defense needs a mostly healthy season to give him a fair assessment.

They were/are both DC's, for the same school. When comparing results, that's exactly what makes it an apples to apples comparison. The point of the comparison is to see how two contrasting styles/schemes and personalities matchup from a results perspective. Its literally the point of the whole discussion.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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They were/are both DC's, for the same school. When comparing results, that's exactly what makes it an apples to apples comparison. The point of the comparison is to see how two contrasting styles/schemes and personalities matchup from a results perspective. Its literally the point of the whole discussion.

See, I don't think it is apples to apples. I think it is more like apples to marbles.

The time/recruiting factor so favors Diaco in this that an honest comparison cannot be made. ND switched to a three-four because we had no stellar d-linemen!
 

ulukinatme

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They were/are both DC's, for the same school. When comparing results, that's exactly what makes it an apples to apples comparison. The point of the comparison is to see how two contrasting styles/schemes and personalities matchup from a results perspective. Its literally the point of the whole discussion.

I agree that both DC's need to produce results, but there's obviously extenuating circumstances that have affected BVG's numbers that are out of his control. He's had to adjust with players recruited for the 3-4 to work in his system. The injuries are not his problem, yet they've affected his numbers. Finally, he's bound to give up more big plays than Diaco. When you coach to be more aggressive you're going to give up some big plays over a "Bend, don't break" mentality, but you can also get off the field sooner and your defense can be better rested. I think early in 2014 someone posted some numbers showing BVG's defense was on the field far less than Diaco's had been, but those numbers obviously dropped as injuries mounted. When you're on the field for long drives and expected to stiffen at the goal line, your defense can begin to tire late with all those snaps...especially if you're offense is having a bad day. We saw some of that against Pitt in 2012, coupled with the flu that many players were fighting.
 
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Luckylucci

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See, I don't think it is apples to apples. I think it is more like apples to marbles.
The time/recruiting factor so favors Diaco in this that an honest comparison cannot be made. ND switched to a three-four because we had no stellar d-linemen!

I'm a results guy, I don't care about Diaco's personality as an elitist. I look at results. The fact is, the results under BVG so far, have not been as good, or even close in some areas.

You can call it whatever you want that makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the reality. There has been enough talent to play better defense. BVG has shown that he's unwilling to be flexible and that's fine, that's his style. We'll see what he has now, I hope its good. Heck, I've been saying that I think it will get better. I'm on the ND win bandwagon and I sure hope its this year. However, again, from a results perspective its Diaco in a unanimous vote. Literally better in all phases of the game. Didn't fact check that but I'm sure its close enough to be true, lol
 

kmoose

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I'd take Polini in a heartbeat if he was an aggressive recruiter. IDK if he is or isn't, but after having a guy who sits on his hands like Van Gorder, I want our next guy to be someone who can go out and get defensive players.

You mean like:

Nyles Morgan
Jay Hayes
Nick Watkins
Jerry Tillery
Josh Barajas
Shaun Crawford
Tevon Coney
Asmar Bilal
Mykelti Williams
Daelin Hayes
Julian Love
Julian Okwara
Jalen Elliot
DJ Morgan
Donte Vaughn
Khalid Kareem
Tony Pride
?

All of those guys are 4* or better defenders who have signed with ND since VanGorder was hired. He also has verbals (not guaranteed, I know) from:

David Adams
Pete Werner
Darnell Ewell
 

kmoose

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I'm a results guy, I don't care about Diaco's personality as an elitist. I look at results. The fact is, the results under BVG so far, have not been as good, or even close in some areas.

Losses to Navy:

Diaco: 1

BVG: 0
 

Luckylucci

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Losses to Navy:

Diaco: 1

BVG: 0

Haha, if that's how you judge a good DC or not then more power to you. I look at a lot more than that but to each there own.

Also (small correction) Morgan, Hayes, and Watkins gave their verbals to Diaco. They signed after he left (February) but verbaled before that.
 

Luckylucci

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I agree that both DC's need to produce results, but there's obviously extenuating circumstances that have affected BVG's numbers that are out of his control. He's had to adjust with players recruited for the 3-4 to work in his system. The injuries are not his problem, yet they've affected his numbers. Finally, he's bound to give up more big plays than Diaco. When you coach to be more aggressive you're going to give up some big plays over a "Bend, don't break" mentality, but you can also get off the field sooner and your defense can be better rested. I think early in 2014 someone posted some numbers showing BVG's defense was on the field far less than Diaco's had been, but those numbers obviously dropped as injuries mounted. When you're on the field for long drives and expected to stiffen at the goal line, your defense can begin to tire late with all those snaps...especially if you're offense is having a bad day. We saw some of that against Pitt in 2012, coupled with the flu that many players were fighting.

Over the previous two seasons, the front 7 players were recruited to play both. Heck we still do, though to a lesser degree. Diaco ran a 4-3 roughly 50% of the time, roughly. I do think it's affected the DB's, that's why I've been adamant we should give him another year.

For the record, I don't think BVG should be fired and to bring it up today was pointless. We have no new information to discuss. Therefore just rehashing stuff that's been discussed at length.

With that said, I also think comparisons to Diaco should stop at both being a DC at ND. One was quite successful and one has a lot to prove. I hope he does
 

kmoose

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Haha, if that's how you judge a good DC or not then more power to you. I look at a lot more than that but to each there own.

Also (small correction) Morgan, Hayes, and Watkins gave their verbals to Diaco. They signed after he left (February) but verbaled before that.

I never said not losing to Navy makes him a good Defensive Coordinator. I was just pointing out the one (and possibly the ONLY one) area where he has an edge over Diaco.
 

jerboski

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I never said not losing to Navy makes him a good Defensive Coordinator. I was just pointing out the one (and possibly the ONLY one) area where he has an edge over Diaco.

In all fairness, disco didn't have an analyst specifically scouting and designing a scheme to defeat the option like BVG does and Kelly has 5 years now playing against the option whereas diaco and Kelly were new to navy's option when they lost.... I understand your point but there are some factors to consider why diaco lost to navy
 

ulukinatme

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In related news:
https://www.facebook.com/NDFootball/videos/1331698380193038/
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FNDFootball%2Fvideos%2F1331698380193038%2F&show_text=0&width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

Also, were there some playful jabs towards Schmidt in there? :laugh:
 
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Calabrese's People

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Me Right Now-

Brain: 'Oh BVG's thread is on the front page. Must be some new development with the D. Lets have a peek'

Heart: 'Write a 3 page document detailing how you disagree with BVG's defensive philosophy. Compare to Diaco's reign. Outline your proposal for doing a better job. POST THIS! THE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW!"

Brain:
vnjfpu3na2gx.gif


Brain: 'Oh Kizer v Zaire is on the front page. Must be some new development with the O. Lets have a peek

Heart: 'How do they compare with Montana v Young 1990-1993. POST THIS!! THE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW!"

Repeat to infinity.

Lets play some damn football.
 

Calabrese's People

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If something happens, I'd love to see BK pry Brady Hoke away from Oregon. Though I doubt that could happen.

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Wouldnt work. An usher would make him sit down and stop clapping, thereby nullifying our schematic advantage...
 

dwshade

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This is BVG's year to take his neck out of the noose or hang himself. He has "his" players now and they've been in the system long enough to have learned it.

Yes and No. The Soph. and Fr. class are players recruited to his system. He now has a number of guys who can play in multiple positions and he has players who specialize in specific roles in his defense. Plus he has much better depth now to work with. I especially love the freshmen we have on defense. Young but very talented with great upside. I'm expecting an improved defense this year IF we can generate a decent pass rush and stay relatively healthy.
 

Crazy Balki

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Haha, if that's how you judge a good DC or not then more power to you. I look at a lot more than that but to each there own.

Also (small correction) Morgan, Hayes, and Watkins gave their verbals to Diaco. They signed after he left (February) but verbaled before that.

That's actually not true. It was announced that Diaco was leaving for UConn in mid December of '13. Watkins and Hayes committed to Diaco, but Morgan committed to VanGorder.
 

ThePiombino

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Hoke would be a perfect hire. He could hopefully extend his one-game scoreless streak at ND Stadium.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I'm a results guy, I don't care about Diaco's personality as an elitist. I look at results. The fact is, the results under BVG so far, have not been as good, or even close in some areas.

You can call it whatever you want that makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the reality. There has been enough talent to play better defense. BVG has shown that he's unwilling to be flexible and that's fine, that's his style. We'll see what he has now, I hope its good. Heck, I've been saying that I think it will get better. I'm on the ND win bandwagon and I sure hope its this year. However, again, from a results perspective its Diaco in a unanimous vote. Literally better in all phases of the game. Didn't fact check that but I'm sure its close enough to be true, lol

I think enough information has been made available that we can take it as a fact that BVG was hired at ND because of his NFL level defensive system; and further because of its ability to adapt to the diverse offensive schemes ND sees because they play so many teams from different regions/conferences around the nation. Most would agree that that was a solid strategy.

What would someone want a defensive coordinator to do when battling the learning curve, and the spate of injuries ND has had over the last two years?

Meet both the proverbial rock and hard place.

The only decision I would criticize is continuing with Joe Schmidt after it was clear he wouldn't bounce back to his pre-'14 Navy level of play. And that decision may have been made above BVG, (or even Kelly's pay grade.)
 

Irish#1

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In related news:
https://www.facebook.com/NDFootball/videos/1331698380193038/
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FNDFootball%2Fvideos%2F1331698380193038%2F&show_text=0&width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

Also, were there some playful jabs towards Schmidt in there? :laugh:

Funny, love seeing these guys in different settings.
 

arrowryan

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Any DCs out there that can find a house on the market in South Bend by Thursday?
 

Sherm Sticky

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I've backed him up, while everyone has tore him apart. I can't back him up anymore. He needs to go!

#FireBVG


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