BVG Fired

[kmoose]

We have one hope, as does BVG: This defense clicks, everyone finally understands the scheme and we put together a top 25 defense statistically.

The defense also needs to win us a game or two with a crucial turnover/stop.

If those things happen, BVG will take a deep breath and our defensive recruiting will have no issues and we'll be grateful for some (assumed) consistency in our coaching personnel.

Not to mention we should be fighting for a playoff spot if both units are in the top 25.

**Meatloaf beat me to it

Per Rivals, in the 2016 recruiting class, we have:

One 5* LB (Hayes)
Five 4* DBs (Love, Elliot, Morgan, Vaughn, Pride)
Two 4* DEs (Okwara and Kareem)

In the 2017 class, so far we have:

Two 4* LBs (Adams and Werner)

Why would you think we need to field a Top 25 defense or we will have recruiting worries?

 

[ThePiombino]

We have one hope, as does BVG: This defense clicks, everyone finally understands the scheme and we put together a top 25 defense statistically.

The defense also needs to win us a game or two with a crucial turnover/stop.

If those things happen, BVG will take a deep breath and our defensive recruiting will have no issues and we'll be grateful for some (assumed) consistency in our coaching personnel.

Not to mention we should be fighting for a playoff spot if both units are in the top 25.

**Meatloaf beat me to it

And then he rides that wave of momentum to a new job lol

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Per Rivals, in the 2016 recruiting class, we have:

One 5* LB (Hayes)
Five 4* DBs (Love, Elliot, Morgan, Vaughn, Pride)
Two 4* DEs (Okwara and Kareem)

In the 2017 class, so far we have:

Two 4* LBs (Adams and Werner)

Why would you think we need to field a Top 25 defense or we will have recruiting worries?

ISD reported ND is having defensive credibility issues on the trail. You listed some quality players, but I think what people are saying is that it should be much better.

 

[kmoose]

ISD reported ND is having defensive credibility issues on the trail. You listed some quality players, but I think what people are saying is that it should be much better.

How bad can your credibility be, if you have that many quality players every 2 years? I think some reporters are trying to create a story where there isn't one.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

How bad can your credibility be, if you have that many quality players every 2 years? I think some reporters are trying to create a story where there isn't one.

That's kind of the point: Having a bunch of talent and still fielding a shitty defense. Makes it pretty easy for kids to question what's wrong and for other coaches to neg. recruit.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

All that doesn't matter.

You play defense or you don't.

Take Greg Mattison. His defenses played. They weren't the most talented (at UofM) but they did well. And they did well without top talent.

The only top talent they got? Who besides Jabrill Peppers?



The sound you are about to hear next month is the third year click.

 

[kmoose]

That's kind of the point: Having a bunch of talent and still fielding a shitty defense. Makes it pretty easy for kids to question what's wrong and for other coaches to neg. recruit.

And yet, he is still bringing in very good talent. So where is the problem?

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

And yet, he is still bringing in very good talent. So where is the problem?

I agree. The negativity is largely based on the complexities regarding our DB's assignments yet look at our DB recruiting haul last year??? and so far this year.... I think we just had poor play from our DB's in general with missing assignments. Max missed his assignments several times, as well as Schumate. Also Russel came back Suuuper rusty and we didn't help them out much with our below average pass rush. I'm not a massive BVG supporter but i think people need to take it easy on him a little. I'm certain it's a much more different scene than we think it is from the outside.

 

[woolybug25]

Bob Elliott for DC!!!

 

[BoredIrish]

Bob Elliott for DC!!!

On a related note, between the coaches clinic and invasion, Bo Pelini has been on campus twice recently. There were pictures on twitter of him and BK and they seemed to be getting along really well.

... just throwing that out there.

 

[T Town Tommy]

On a related note, between the coaches clinic and invasion, Bo Pelini has been on campus twice recently. There were pictures on twitter of him and BK and they seemed to be getting along really well.

... just throwing that out there.

The sideline isn't big enough for Bo and BK.

 

[Irish YJ]

The sideline isn't big enough for Bo and BK.

Hey, haven't you heard of the stadium expansion project?

In terms of Bo... PLEASE LORD PLEASE

 

[woolybug25]

The sideline isn't big enough for Bo and BK.

I don't think that's true at all. He's not as big of a blowhard as BVG.

 

[Meatloaf]

On a related note, between the coaches clinic and invasion, Bo Pelini has been on campus twice recently. There were pictures on twitter of him and BK and they seemed to be getting along really well.

... just throwing that out there.

His son was at II competing for a PWO spot. Don't know if I'd read too much into things.

Personally, I'd try to lure Phil Snow away from Temple.

 

[Irish YJ]

His son was at II competing for a PWO spot. Don't know if I'd read too much into things.

If Bo's son wants to come to ND as a PWO, Don't you think Bo might consider wanting to coach him. Better to be the DC at ND than HC at YS IMO. Not saying there's any talk, but why not?

 

[Meatloaf]

If Bo's son wants to come to ND as a PWO, Don't you think Bo might consider wanting to coach him. Better to be the DC at ND than HC at YS IMO. Not saying there's any talk, but why not?

Good point. I'm definitely open to Bo...as long as he brings the cat:

 

[Graybeard52]

I don't believe I have chimed in on this topic here but I think this is a make or break year for BVG. There is more experience/talent/depth on defense for the first time in awhile and it's the third year in his "scheme."

The first couple of years ND was still trotting out players recruited for Diaco's 3-4 but I won't even accept injuries as an excuse this year and it doesn't have to perform at 2012 levels to get the job done.

The offense should be fine but the defense needs to deliver better than it has recently. Brilliant against mediocre teams and mediocre against quality teams will not cut it. I would almost even settle for consistently competent.

 

[Irish YJ]

Good point. I'm definitely open to Bo...as long as he brings the cat:

Bo knows puxxy

 

[IrishSteelhead]

OMG:

+

=

 

[rocket66]

BVG will be the 2016 version of Joe Schmidt on IE. He's gonna get killed every week, and probably rightfully so.


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[IrishLion]

And yet, he is still bringing in very good talent. So where is the problem?

You missed the point of the OP. The OP implied that we are still getting the talent for now, as you are pointing out, but it goes further in that another year of defensive credibility issues could lead to a lull in defensive recruiting (which we currently aren't experiencing).

 

[Irish YJ]

BVG will be the 2016 version of Joe Schmidt on IE. He's gonna get killed every week, and probably rightfully so.


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I'd like to think our D will progress, but I can't say I'm confident. If it does not, BVG deserves the JS treatment.

 

[kmoose]

You missed the point of the OP. The OP implied that we are still getting the talent for now, as you are pointing out, but it goes further in that another year of defensive credibility issues could lead to a lull in defensive recruiting (which we currently aren't experiencing).

I simply asked a question of why the poster thought that not having a Top 30 defense would cause us to have recruiting problems. Other people then chimed in that it has been reported that we already have defensive recruiting problems. I simply responded to their contention that we already have problems. It's point-counterpoint. I didn't attack the OP for their views. I simply supplied evidence that refutes the notion that we currently have issues with defensive recruiting.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

And yet, he is still bringing in very good talent. So where is the problem?

You missed the point of the OP. The OP implied that we are still getting the talent for now, as you are pointing out, but it goes further in that another year of defensive credibility issues could lead to a lull in defensive recruiting (which we currently aren't experiencing).

Right. ISD is suggesting that continued sub-par defenses are going to lead to continued rumblings on the recruiting trail causing ND some issues with elite defensive recruits down the road. They said it's already happening with some kids (no names mentioned that I heard). Basically, the early stages of this stigma "Why go to ND where it'll take you two or three years to learn a complicated defense in order to see the field, and even then, play for a defense that just isn't very good?" I think that's what they're dealing with and the longer it goes on, the more ND may see a drop in defensive talent coming to SB.*

*Keep in mind, Mike Frank is notorious for being a pessimist. But he and Christian are dialed into recruiting. So take it however you want. It could be a legitimate issue, or it could be Mike just having a weekly panic attack about ND football. The bottom line, Mike feels that ND could be doing better with elite guys if ND fielded better defenses (valid position to hold).

 

[IrishLion]

I simply asked a question of why the poster thought that not having a Top 30 defense would cause us to have recruiting problems. Other people then chimed in that it has been reported that we already have defensive recruiting problems. I simply responded to their contention that we already have problems. It's point-counterpoint. I didn't attack the OP for their views. I simply supplied evidence that refutes the notion that we currently have issues with defensive recruiting.

I see how we got there now.

I guess my post is an answer to your first question, then.

We aren't having problems now (at least not with specific names attributed), but another year of underwhelming defense could actually start to affect defensive recruiting, and start to curb the amount of talent that's being brought in.

I don't anticipate that, as I am an optimist, and I believe a third year of continuity will offset the personnel losses, and will lead to an overall better defense that creates a few more turnovers and produces better pressure on the QB.

But, if that's not the case, I will be super bummed.

 

[Luckylucci]

BVG will be the 2016 version of Joe Schmidt on IE. He's gonna get killed every week, and probably rightfully so.


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I actually think it will go down a little differently. I see us having some dominant performances as there are some studs on this defense that will make plays and we will be playing against some teams that just don't match up with our guys. So, those Sundays will be chalked full of the tide is turning folks. Then we'll give up 25-30+ to someone and the BVG needs to take a hike folks will come back. I see much more of a rollercoaster with BVG as I think they'll be many more high points throughout the season, than Schmidt had in 2015.

 

[koonja]

I actually think it will go down a little differently. I see us having some dominant performances as there are some studs on this defense that will make plays and we will be playing against some teams that just don't match up with our guys. So, those Sundays will be chalked full of the tide is turning folks. Then we'll give up 25-30+ to someone and the BVG needs to take a hike folks will come back. I see much more of a rollercoaster with BVG as I think they'll be many more high points throughout the season, than Schmidt had in 2015.

Probably the most realistic post of all time.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I see us having some dominant performances as there are some studs on this defense that will make plays and we will be playing against some teams that just don't match up with our guys. So, those Sundays will be chalked full of the tide is turning folks. Then we'll give up 25-30+ to someone and the BVG needs to take a hike folks will come back.

I think this pretty much encompasses what this thread has become.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

To me this thread is all about posting nothing.

This year BVG produces, or he doesn't.

But, if you research it, almost every new DC under Kelly, anywhere, has taken criticism, (big time) before they produced. Cinci, hated Diaco. Big signs read, "Silver lining to Kelly selling us out - he is taking Diaco with him!"

And the quotes above about VanGorder are accurate. He does run an overly complex defense. His defense got torched on missed db assignments this past season. And it does click the third year.

Further, some in the past have talking about playing so many intersectional games, and how teams from different conferences are built differently. We see that consistently when ND doesn't beat an obviously weaker team by a greater point margin. I believe that is why ND brought BVG and his defense in. It is an attempt to get all challengers to modify their offenses, to handle a problematic defensive scheme, instead of trying to meet incredible standards in changing assignments every week to stop offenses grown in different conferences for different purposes.

Again, all that needs saying is, we will see this fall.

 

[Luckylucci]

So Lou S. at BGI did a Q/A with BK recently. Very similar to Hansen's. Same message, whether it's right or not. Personnel is the issue. He's very confident they've recruited the right talent and we'll collectively see better results. He once again made mention that the current results, run game specifically, isn't cutting it.