BVG Fired

[Domina Nostra]

2012 Alabama laughs at the thought of a base defense being effective.

Yeah. Alabama is like an NFL team who gets a quarter of all the first and second round picks every year. So they are basically the one team that can play a very traditional-style, grind it out offense and just out-athlete you.

When other teams, like MSU or Wisconsin or LSU or Stanford, use that offense, the better teams can slow them down. They don't have 3 deep of 4-5 stars at every position.

On the other hand, it has to be admitted that modern offenses are generally harder to stop. We look at Alabama as the standard, for VERY good reason, but they also play a lot of teams with straightforward offenses that sputter a lot. They out athlete them.

But when they play a modern offense with similar quality athletes (Tex AM, OSU, Clemoson) who get creative, its different. They still usually WIN--which is the most important part--but they give up lots of points and big plays like everyone else. Look at the NC game.

 

[NDRock]

2012 Alabama laughs at the thought of a base defense being effective.

Yeah, that was a terrible defense.

 

[woolybug25]

Are you forgetting/am I imagining his health problems though? Otherwise I'd be fine with it.

The other choice would be to slot Elston in there, and just tell him to run a base defense. Would be more effective than the ridiculous scheme we are running now.

Elston doesn't have half the resume' of Elliott and frankly I don't think he has done a great job with out LB's. He had TWO generational LB's (Manti/Jaylon) and it hasn't been a great position group outside of those two. Hell, shouldn't he take at least some of the blame for Nyles not being prepared to take over last year?

 

[Booslum31]

Elston doesn't have half the resume' of Elliott and frankly I don't think he has done a great job with out LB's. He had TWO generational LB's (Manti/Jaylon) and it hasn't been a great position group outside of those two. Hell, shouldn't he take at least some of the blame for Nyles not being prepared to take over last year?

Agree...all last year as some of us were pounding BVG I was wondering where Nyles' position coach stood with respect to Nyles preparedness.

 

[Luckylucci]

Elston doesn't have half the resume' of Elliott and frankly I don't think he has done a great job with out LB's. He had TWO generational LB's (Manti/Jaylon) and it hasn't been a great position group outside of those two. Hell, shouldn't he take at least some of the blame for Nyles not being prepared to take over last year?

Big picture, I like Elliot quite a bit and I'm very glad we've kept him around. If BVG doesn't put out a good product on the field and we had to go with someone on the fly, like you describe above (not saying I want that) but Elliot wouldn't be the worst guy to have in their.

Quick update, Eltson has only been with the LB's since BVG took over. If you recall, he was DL coach under Diaco.

JMO, but I have hard time getting too upset with the position coaches under the current structure BVG has in place. Our defensive position coaches are not allowed regular film room time with their players. Its BVG and only BVG, for the most part.

 

[ndfi78]

Yeah, that was a terrible defense.

Wait, what? Statistically the best defense in 30+ years was terrible?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Wait, what? Statistically the best defense in 30+ years was terrible?

I still think the 2011 defense was better but w/e.

 

[NDRock]

Wait, what? Statistically the best defense in 30+ years was terrible?

Sorry, it was sarcasm.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

Elston doesn't have half the resume' of Elliott and frankly I don't think he has done a great job with out LB's. He had TWO generational LB's (Manti/Jaylon) and it hasn't been a great position group outside of those two. Hell, shouldn't he take at least some of the blame for Nyles not being prepared to take over last year?

But he's healthy enough to coach... do you not realize that Elliott is not a current position coach, because of his health?

And you want him to take over as DC?

???

 

[Shamrock Theories]

I still think the 2011 defense was better but w/e.

Lmao what?

2012 defense allowed 13 PPG, 2011 20 PPG

???

 

[Irish#1]

Big picture, I like Elliot quite a bit and I'm very glad we've kept him around. If BVG doesn't put out a good product on the field and we had to go with someone on the fly, like you describe above (not saying I want that) but Elliot wouldn't be the worst guy to have in their.

Quick update, Eltson has only been with the LB's since BVG took over. If you recall, he was DL coach under Diaco.

JMO, but I have hard time getting too upset with the position coaches under the current structure BVG has in place. Our defensive position coaches are not allowed regular film room time with their players. Its BVG and only BVG, for the most part.

The first time I've heard this. Not doubting you at all, just if true, then there are some issues. How can these coaches improve the players if they can't participate in the film room and see & hear what BVG wants? Said it before, now that they are pretty much all of BVG's recruits, if there isn't significant improvement this year, it's time to show him the door.

 

[Wingman Ray]

The first time I've heard this. Not doubting you at all, just if true, then there are some issues. How can these coaches improve the players if they can't participate in the film room and see & hear what BVG wants? Said it before, now that they are pretty much all of BVG's recruits, if there isn't significant improvement this year, it's time to show him the door.

What is killing me is when Meatchicken has articles about how their DC is killing it on recruiting and yet not one recruit has spoken of BVG making an impact on them relationship wise. I mean this is his job folks! If you arent going to recruit and make relationships, go back to pro ball where everyone is mercenary.

Ive said for years this guy isnt the guy for ND. After ND drops a few to average teams by giving up 42 pts maybe BK will finally wake up.

 

[Luckylucci]

The first time I've heard this. Not doubting you at all, just if true, then there are some issues. How can these coaches improve the players if they can't participate in the film room and see & hear what BVG wants? Said it before, now that they are pretty much all of BVG's recruits, if there isn't significant improvement this year, it's time to show him the door.

Let me clarify. My understanding is that the assistant coaches are a part of the room. However, the defense doesn't break out into position rooms to go over tape or further teaching. This is going to limit the impact assistant coaches can really have on development. Though it was stated that the DL still does.

With all that said, this was stated by 247, who learned of this information from "their" sources inside the program. I find it hard to believe that they would make this up and I don't find it hard to believe that BVG would run things that way. However, their sources are not always the best, so TIFWIW.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A few things :

A) Elston was not the linebacker coach for Manti. He was the d-line coach then. And no, he isn't as good of a d-line coach as Gilmore.

B) Bob Elliot is not moving back onto the field. (At 63 with the health issues he has had.)

C) Talking about BVG's player charisma is irrelevant; BVG ain't that guy. But plenty want to play for Gilmore, Lyght, and Elston.

D) The whole player group meeting thing is just a perfect example of how passed on gossip always gets fucked up. Last year because of some coordination issues between the defensive groups, (Personnel not knowing where the fuck they need to be), BVG eliminated individual position group meetings for the sake of bringing all of the defensive units together, to help improve communication. There was no indication that this was a permanent change, or that BVG was taking over in a micro-managerial sense.

E) Mike Frank, has become more and more pedantic with some of his statements lately. In my opinion, if ND has lost cred with defensive recruits, it's more about who they have been talking to and who they have been recruiting. I cannot remember the last time ND has had the broad depth it does on defense, let alone the talent in the defensive backfield.

 

[woolybug25]

Big picture, I like Elliot quite a bit and I'm very glad we've kept him around. If BVG doesn't put out a good product on the field and we had to go with someone on the fly, like you describe above (not saying I want that) but Elliot wouldn't be the worst guy to have in their.

Quick update, Eltson has only been with the LB's since BVG took over. If you recall, he was DL coach under Diaco.

JMO, but I have hard time getting too upset with the position coaches under the current structure BVG has in place. Our defensive position coaches are not allowed regular film room time with their players. Its BVG and only BVG, for the most part.

The film room thing is ridiculous. I wonder why he does it that way?

You're right on Elston being the DL coach. I don't think he did an amazing job there either. Not bad, but not nearly the level of Elliott. Also, what are the supposed health issues of Elliott? I think his health is probably good enough to be a transitional DC while we find the defensive counterpart to Sanford.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The film room thing is ridiculous. I wonder why he does it that way?

You're right on Elston being the DL coach. I don't think he did an amazing job there either. Not bad, but not nearly the level of Elliott. Also, what are the supposed health issues of Elliott? I think his health is probably good enough to be a transitional DC while we find the defensive counterpart to Sanford.

Pete Thamel: The long, resilient journey of Notre Dame's Bob Elliott

 

[Luckylucci]

A few things :

A) Elston was not the linebacker coach for Manti. He was the d-line coach then. And no, he isn't as good of a d-line coach as Gilmore.

B) Bob Elliot is not moving back onto the field. (At 63 with the health issues he has had.)

C) Talking about BVG's player charisma is irrelevant; BVG ain't that guy. But plenty want to play for Gilmore, Lyght, and Elston.

D) The whole player group meeting thing is just a perfect example of how passed on gossip always gets fucked up. Last year because of some coordination issues between the defensive groups, (Personnel not knowing where the fuck they need to be), BVG eliminated individual position group meetings for the sake of bringing all of the defensive units together, to help improve communication. There was no indication that this was a permanent change, or that BVG was taking over in a micro-managerial sense.

E) Mike Frank, has become more and more pedantic with some of his statements lately. In my opinion, if ND has lost cred with defensive recruits, it's more about who they have been talking to and who they have been recruiting. I cannot remember the last time ND has had the broad depth it does on defense, let alone the talent in the defensive backfield.

I disagree that its irrelevant. He's the DC, the sole leader of the defense and his relationships with recruits and players is definitely not irrelevant. Does he have to be rico suave with these kids, no. There has got to be some room in between. And if BVG ain't going to be that guy, then we better start getting some better results on the field.

Once again, I'll disagree. I do not believe that if the product being put out on the field was up to top 25 defensive standards, we'd have the same issue. The problem is, for whatever reason, 2014 was a disaster and 2015 didn't live up to expectations based on talent.

Lets hope 2016 is better, and I'll be optimistic. However, this definitely has to do with BVG, to some degree, if not a majority of it.

 

[connor_in]

Do any of you think this may be a show me the money or I'll show you the door, put up or shut up year for BVG?

 

[ACamp1900]

Do any of you think this may be a show me the money or I'll show you the door, put up or shut up year for BVG?

Yes

 

[House16]

Do any of you think this may be a show me the money or I'll show you the door, put up or shut up year for BVG?

I hope so but I seriously doubt it. Barring a complete and total collapse, I think BVG is on a very cold seat, unfortunately. He'll stay the DC until we have a defense full of three stars that give up 40 a game.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think we have another year of inconsistency. There will be some players that turn heads and games that we think the defense is in lockdown mode. Then there will more head scratchers, big plays, and teams hanging 30+ on us. However, I do think the results will be good enough to keep him around but not good enough to keep all happy. JMO

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">An anonymous Power 5 coach on <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachVanGorder">@CoachVanGorder</a>'s schemes. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NDFB?src=hash">#NDFB</a> <a href="https://t.co/3jO8rYnica">https://t.co/3jO8rYnica</a> <a href="https://t.co/6a5hPYJ0zA">pic.twitter.com/6a5hPYJ0zA</a></p>— Jude S. (@andrewwinn) <a href="https://twitter.com/andrewwinn/status/745244916666802176">June 21, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Blaise]

Isn't this what we have said 990 times over the past two seasons? He schemes great, but our kids can't process and we make mental mistakes that let up huge plays

 

[koonja]

I feel like this will be the year where it finally starts to affect recruiting if our defense sucks again. We won't see the impact on defensive recruiting until after the season, but if it's a mess again, I feel like December - February, our rivals will be hammering how complicated our D is to learn. I think it will particularly impact LB and safety recruiting. I feel like we can convince DL and corners that 'if you can play, you will play'. But if you're a MLB and it looks like you have to be here 9 years to learn the position, that's no fun.

 

[JD Irish]

I feel like this will be the year where it finally starts to affect recruiting if our defense sucks again. We won't see the impact on defensive recruiting until after the season, but if it's a mess again, I feel like December - February, our rivals will be hammering how complicated our D is to learn. I think it will particularly impact LB and safety recruiting. I feel like we can convince DL and corners that 'if you can play, you will play'. But if you're a MLB and it looks like you have to be here 9 years to learn the position, that's no fun.

It already has impacted our defensive recruiting. Our offensive recruiting has been superior for years. ISD says we have a credibility issue with defensive recruits. It also doesn't help that our defensive coordinator himself is a non-factor in the actual recruiting efforts.

 

[Irishman77]

If someone could embed this video , that would be great. Start watching at the 23 minute mark. When Buddy Ryan cut the playbook in half things changed for the 85 bears. Wish BVG would do the same!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7oH_EZYuM

 

[dublinirish]

If someone could embed this video , that would be great. Start watching at the 23 minute mark. When Buddy Ryan cut the playbook in half things changed for the 85 bears. Wish BVG would do the same!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7oH_EZYuM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Di7oH_EZYuM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[TheChosen1]

This is news to no one

 

[Meatloaf]

Simply put if ND doesn't finish around 30ish in total defense and fails to show any improvement in turnovers and sacks, BVG needs to kick rocks. We're paying this guy 1.1 mm to not recruit and employ an overly complex system that doesn't generate sacks or turnovers like it's supposed to (ND finished 75th and 109th in those categories).

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

We have one hope, as does BVG: This defense clicks, everyone finally understands the scheme and we put together a top 25 defense statistically.

The defense also needs to win us a game or two with a crucial turnover/stop.

If those things happen, BVG will take a deep breath and our defensive recruiting will have no issues and we'll be grateful for some (assumed) consistency in our coaching personnel.

Not to mention we should be fighting for a playoff spot if both units are in the top 25.

**Meatloaf beat me to it