BVG Fired

[dublinirish]

it's common for SEC schools to dump coaches after signing day as NLI's are already signed. Any chance BK cans BVG this week?

 

[irishff1014]

it's common for SEC schools to dump coaches after signing day as NLI's are already signed. Any chance BK cans BVG this week?

NO way Kelly dumps BVG after the praises he gave hims yesterday.

 

[ThePiombino]

NO way Kelly dumps BVG after the praises he gave hims yesterday.

Not this year anyway.

 

[Irishman77]

Before yesterday's comment kelly always said we played 50% 3-4 and 50% 4-3. Yesterday was all about sticking up for BVG and trying to sweep this obvious disaster under the gug.

 

[JohnnyJasper]

Our defense has been soft and has let up big plays ever since the departure of Diaco. We all know this. The hype for BVG when he came in here really made all of our expectations something that was really not attainable ( at least within the 1st year or two). All I know is that Diaco had our guys blended together. On the same page. Manti obviously is a huge credit to this, but we all thought Jaylon would be able to take on that role.. bottom line.. Jaylon - Manti two totally different LBs. Jaylon pure strength/speed/athleticism. Leadership? sure. But Manti had the unprecedented leadership you cant coach.

All I know is that we clearly have the offense to put up points especially with the depth at RB/WR. We have plenty of guys on defense that can play ball. I'm tired of the big plays and letting up 30+ points a game. It makes me sick to my stomach. Losing Jaylon, Day, Shumate, and Okwara and Kei is huge. IMO Losing Day is the most vital piece we lost. Kei not so much. Either way - Morgan/Coney/Onawalu etc. are legitimate NFL potential guys. Filling Keis shoes is definitely do able with Luke/Watkins/Butler.

I just want a tough defense like in 2012. You could see the toughness and passion in that Diaco defense so much more than this defense. Jaylon tried to be like Manti in leading the team but again.. two totally different personalities. We have to move on and just make some changes. We all know we have the talent. No excuses losing to Clem/Stan the way we did this year. Both on the last plays of the game. Sickening.

 

[Luckylucci]

JS = Jaylon Smith + Joe Schmidt

I recently watched game film of Joe Schmidt before, and after his broken ankle. He was never the same. Joe never had speed. But he was 'adequate' in that department when he first came up. Not so his Senior year. Remember the last time we had a five flat middle linebacker? It was during the no-defense Weis years!

So last year we didn't have a middle capable of playing the game with all that is required of a 4-3 middle backer.

Jaylon Smith was a freak, But I think BVG was right on when he called Jaylon out. Jaylon had no real vocal leadership abilities. Not like Manti. Not like Malik. Not like even DeShone, who was such a newbie that the Styrofoam and cardboard from the packing material still clung to his jersey and helmet! (Intended hyperbole.)

So other than Sheldon and Isaac, there was no decent defensive leadership. That tracks with all the antidotal evidence out there. The defensive line performed as expected, or better in every game. At least it was the best performing component of the defense, game in, and game out.

The defensive backfield was a mess. Maybe the worst situation since Lou was head coach. Yea, I said that. But think about it. It wasn't just the fact that no one was assignment correct. There was a lot of evidence all the corners were playing with bad technique, or at least not what they were being coached. (Except Cole Luke, for the most part.) There may not have been a healthy, competent, consistent safety after Drue went down. With any 4-3, you are forced into more cover 1, by nature. You need to do things that you can't without that extra linebacker, playing a gap (single) defense , as opposed to a two-gap.

Brian made one reference to this yesterday. From what he said, I heard two things; that the two gap 3-4. cover 2 defense wasn't the way to go, and that it took time, as well as the right personnel to run any defense that ran cover 1 coverage.

Add to that the Irish took a major hit on the line. Jarron Jones was a pocket collapsing defensive lineman that could remain assignment correct for the run game. That killed us this season, any way you slice it. Probably the most significant injury in terms of an irreplaceable skill set on the whole team, over the season.

So this year, the defense concentrated on the right kind of db's for the system, some edge rushers, hybrid linebackers, role players, and versatile player. Not just guys that can play more than one defensive position, but guys that could do that, and or even play on the other side of the ball. If you don't believe me, look at how many guys were brought in that have played quarterback!

And look at the athletes that were brought in to play corner; they already seem to know when to turn their heads, and when not to turn them. This was pointed out to me by a guy I know that had NFL experience. So it wasn't farted out by some have baked talking head. Just my take on it.

The next year or so should tell all. Especially with the development of Johnathan Jones. I get the feeling that he was the most important of the late linebackers from this class. Because they see him as the future of the middle.

If we don't see a tremendous improvement this next season, and consistent improvement thereafter, maybe I'll join the anti=BVG bandwagon. But for me, it is way premature.

On the leadership piece, I'd add Joe Schmidt. If Joe can't play, then he was certainly on the field for his leadership. This wasn't 2013 where we didn't have anyone willing to speak up. Plenty of experience.

Also, we were on this board in August/September and you had compared this team to 2012 in terms of the amount of leadership we had. You said that there hasn't been more leadership on an ND team in a long time. We can't have it both ways. We can't praise the experience and leadership in August and then use it as an excuse in February.

BVG is going to be hard pressed to find more experience and talent on the same defense while at ND. Because of that, I'm not very optimistic but willing to give him another year.

 

[Bugzly21]

"Isn't very common" is an understatement. I have never heard of a staff doing this. Some of the most important instruction and film viewing is in positional meetings. I met every day with my position group at the DII level.

Just because you did something a certain way in the past does not necessarily mean that it the most beneficial or most productive way of doing things. There are so many things that were done a specific way for years only to be found to be inefficient.

Let's take something simple as stretching: Many studies have been done in recent years that have proven that it is better for your muscles to stretch dynamically before an event than statically. How can this be? For a millennium we have been taught to stand in place and stretch then go at?

I'm not saying his way is better or individual is better. I am saying that there are many ways to do things. With one group it might be better to go individual but others do a group setting. You never know unless you know the psych of that group. Some people you have to critique with finesse or they break down. Another might only respond when you yell at them

 

[NDohio]

During the BVG (I think) interview today, on the Jack Swarbrick Show Presented by Joe Schmidt, it was mentioned that they couldn't even play nickel defense for 2 or 3 games this past season, because they didn't have a healthy 5th DB that was ready to play. They signed 5 DBs today, so hopefully they will be able to improve the backside of the defense.

Thought that was interesting as well. It was during the Elston interview and they were talking about the reason there were so many DB's in the class. ME mentioned that there were three games where they didn't have enough healthy/able bodies to play any nickel packages. That is shocking.

I'm not sure you can replace Jaylon Smith's production, though. So the key question is probably going to be........... how close can you get?

Hopefully our LB group as a whole can be more consistent as opposed to just Jaylon being the guy as happened all too often this year. Will Nyles Morgan ever become the player we expected him to be?

 

[connor_in]

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[MNIrishman]

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"My favorite part is the posh hotel rooms and sleeping in when the bossman isn't around." \s

 

[Bogtrotter07]

On the leadership piece, I'd add Joe Schmidt. If Joe can't play, then he was certainly on the field for his leadership. This wasn't 2013 where we didn't have anyone willing to speak up. Plenty of experience.

Also, we were on this board in August/September and you had compared this team to 2012 in terms of the amount of leadership we had. You said that there hasn't been more leadership on an ND team in a long time. We can't have it both ways. We can't praise the experience and leadership in August and then use it as an excuse in February.

BVG is going to be hard pressed to find more experience and talent on the same defense while at ND. Because of that, I'm not very optimistic but willing to give him another year.

I am sorry for the awkward way I stated it. I chose not to mention Joe Schmidt for the leadership part of the conversation because the rumor has floated around that players built a tremendous resentment toward him for his on field play. I don't believe those rumors, at all.

What my knock against Joe Schmidt is, and it is really only a subtle change to those critics of his. I talked to Pete Samson today, and Joe had a 25% miss rate for the season, and at the same time he was down in attempts. He also had a broken hand, (and we have clearly seen how that affected Mathias Farley in 2013.

However against Ohio State after he regained as much of his health as he could, with a bum shoulder. When his hand had most certainly healed, he recorded 13 tackles (season high) with 100% on his attempts. Quite an improvement! So if there is any slam, it is that he should have benched himself for the teams sake, or the coaches should have benched him. But I do see why they didn't!

Joe also had a shoulder injury bad enough to require surgery. Did anyone know he was going in for surgery next week? In addition, his dislocated and broken ankle hobbled him for the beginning of the season, and came back and bothered him toward the end. To put a period at the end of this part of the conversation. Pete was clear that Joe didn't want anyone to know, i.e., he is not the kind of guy that offers an excuse.

That is a perfect segue into the last part of this conversation. In response to your can't have it both ways conversation. Yes, I can. Because I specifically mentioned comparing leadership levels coming out of summer camp. Because it only became clear how massive the leadership of Manti, Cappy, and Co really was.

And they did everything in the spots we saw to portray Jaylon as a vocal leader. Then it seems he withdrew. Finally, a whole lot of the leadership of this team because walking wounded. And if you remember, the whole concept of leadership on this team wasn't an incredibly high level from three or four players, but many more contributing, but at a lower individual level. So when guys like Jones, Zaire, Folston, etc., etc., went down, it really affected the leadership output. Game leadership really can only be contributed on the field by those that practice every day. Twenty three game injuries, dropped any possibility of the promising August start, in the leadership conversation. Hell, the injuries were so bad, there were hardly any followers left!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

HLS just published an article comparing Diaco's performance to BvG's.

On an absolute basis, VanGorder’s defenses have simply given up more points. However, and this surprised me somewhat, he really hasn’t faced a much harsher schedule than Diaco. In fact, in VanGorder’s first two seasons, he’s faced 11 offenses that averaged 30+ points for the season to Diaco’s 12. He also faced no offenses that averaged 40+ points to Diaco’s 3. In 6 of the 11 games versus high powered offenses, BVG’s teams wilted letting that team exceed their already high season points average. BVG also had 7 games in which his defense inflated the opposing team’s points worse than Diaco’s “worst” performance versus Navy. The capper being the 2014 Northwestern game where the Wildcats fell just a field goal short of doubling their season points per game average.

In total, VanGorder’s defenses have allowed the opposing offense to exceed their season points per game average in 11 of 26 contests (42%) in his first two seasons. VanGorder held an opponent to half as many points as their season average on 3 occasions to Diaco’s 6. The drop off from Diaco seasons 1 and 2 to VanGorder seasons 1 and 2 is about as stark as it can get. 2015 was an improved campaign for VanGorder, but still only about half as good as a Diaco campaign.

What may make it even tougher for Irish fans to swallow is that year 3 of the Diaco era was the 2012 campaign during which the Irish had one of the strongest defenses in the country on a points allowed basis. It’s unreasonable to expect VanGorder to make that dramatic an ascension, but anything short of a steep improvement should probably be enough to show BVG the door. Diaco did a lot more with similarly situated talent. The gap between talent and performance cannot remain at its current level if VanGorder wants to stick around.

For a more scientific look, here are ND's DFEI trends over the seasons in question:

Diaco - 68th in 2009 (baseline); 27th in 2010; 18th in 2011; and 16th in 2012.
BvG - 30th in 2013 (baseline); 78th in 2014; and 52nd in 2015.

The most obvious difference is that our defense made a huge leap forward in efficiency during Diaco's first year (68th to 27th), while it took an even larger fall backwards during BvG's first year (30th to 78th). There was more improvement during BvG's 2nd year than Diaco's, but that's probably attributable to the very low bar BvG set for himself in 2014.

Needless to say, if our defense doesn't manage a significant increase in efficiency during the 2016 campaign (along the lines of 25-30 spots in national ranking), I doubt BvG keeps his job.

 

[ulukinatme]

So....not a gangsta?

Seriously, I expect a large improvement in BVG's defense this year, baring a complete destruction of our starters to injury again. It's nearly impossible to ask any DC to put together a bunch of 2nd stringers and call yourself a good defense. I'm not really saying this as a BVG fan or anything, I just sympathize with the situation.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

HLS just published an article comparing Diaco's performance to BvG's.



For a more scientific look, here are ND's DFEI trends over the seasons in question:

Diaco - 68th in 2009 (baseline); 27th in 2010; 18th in 2011; and 16th in 2012.
BvG - 30th in 2013 (baseline); 78th in 2014; and 52nd in 2015.

The most obvious difference is that our defense made a huge leap forward in efficiency during Diaco's first year (68th to 27th), while it took an even larger fall backwards during BvG's first year (30th to 78th). There was more improvement during BvG's 2nd year than Diaco's, but that's probably attributable to the very low bar BvG set for himself in 2014.

Needless to say, if our defense doesn't manage a significant increase in efficiency during the 2016 campaign (along the lines of 25-30 spots in national ranking), I doubt BvG keeps his job.

Yeah, Whiskey, I saw that article, too!

As I started reading it, I felt as if it was written by a Diaco loyalist. One of those people fond of saying, "Remember the old days!" And, "They don't build defenses like they used to!" Someone that would look past Diaco's overt egocentric pedantic elitism, to see the kind of buddy he never had, (and most wouldn't want.)

There were a few things wrong with the logic base of the article.

• Diaco had more talent when he came to ND than BVG did. Diaco left the cupboards bare because of his insistence of picking players that fit his measurables, as well as his unfathomability to alienate most people (including staff, recruits, and players) that he spent a lot of time around.
• Diaco's defense was easier, easier to play, easier to find talent for in the defensive backfield. In fact, there was only one position that required more than BVG's : Cat, and Danny and Jaylon were the whole exception to ND recruiting under Weis through Diaco.
• BVG has had none of the athleticism and brains, in any great combination, at any key positions, not like Diaco had at Cat!
• If you put Manti Te'o in BVG's defense at his slimmed down senior weight, it would have been a lights out defense. Let alone given him the talent of a Smith, Motta, McCarthy, anyone, just go back and pick somebody! That said, it is expected that no self-respecting defensive back would want to play a cover two, vanilla defense. If they were good enough for a helmet and jersey, they want to play more aggressively. That led to the defensive back, 'brain drain' that has crushed BVG, and his defense!
• Bob Diaco sucked against option teams, even in '12. He sucked personally, professionally, and as a defensive coordinator/field general. There is no other word for it. BVG doesn't. In fact, Navy, GT and anyone else who feature a pronounced option game have to not look forward to playing against a BVG defense. Compare those statistics.
• Not only has BVG not had his players in and mature on the team, but his injuries to the few that can play his defense, (Who gives a fuck about offensive injuries? That has nothing to do with comparing defenses!)
• People were starting to figure bend without break out. Success was diminishing greatly. My best memory of that was watching all eleven in a two point stance in the mud, against Navy, at home, and barely holding on to a couple point victory, in a year where my Rockets pasted Navy by seventeen!
• In addition to figuring out how to defend against 'Bobby D,' as he is lovingly referred to, Bobby D left the cupboards bare, (bare and one-half). If ND hadn't grabbed a bunch of 'out of profile' defensive linemen by previous recruiting standards, the Irish and BVG would have really been fucked in BVG's first two years. Also, just think if ND didn't have the fortuitous situation of Jerry Tillery moving from O-line to defense! Notre Dame would have had Sheldon Day, and he would have probably been and remained injured.
• Finally, about recruiting. Bob was director, if not dictator if you remember. He cost ND players. Research that. The truth is out there. Under both Recruiting Coordinators since, recruiting has improved by light years! Better prospects, more identified, and better classes. The operant word here is being able to recruit for needs, not taking what you get.
• Finally, BVG's defense is an NFL defense. He does nothing I didn't see in the Super Bowl last night. I believe that this was a recognized need on the part of Kelly to move the Irish to the next level; others have postulated, and surmised that it is out of necessity because of the fact that Notre Dame is an independent, and plays schools from all over the nation from diverse conferences, that have built programs to compete against the same nine or ten schools each year.

So I think statistics, and statistical comparisons are bull shit. I think those that really tout them are the next generation of a certain web site that is against anything but rumble seats, returning to natural grass, and pursuing a power running game.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah, Whiskey, I saw that article, too!

As I started reading it, I felt as if it was written by a Diaco loyalist. One of those people fond of saying, "Remember the old days!" And, "They don't build defenses like they used to!" Someone that would look past Diaco's overt egocentric pedantic elitism, to see the kind of buddy he never had, (and most wouldn't want.)

To clarify, I'm definitely not a Diaco loyalist. The guy checked out on us in 2013, and we're still trying to recover from his roster mismanagement in a couple key areas; in fact, he probably deserves some share of the blame for our defensive regression in 2014. But it's tough to argue against his accomplishments during the 2010-2012 stretch.

Maybe BvG is much better than we give him credit for. Defensive injuries certainly haven't left him much to work with over the last two seasons (though the still undiagnosed cause of those injuries is a major cause for concern going forward). But I still think his unit needs to make a significant leap in efficiency, or Kelly is going to be under a lot of pressure to make a change.

 

[phgreek]

As for Joe, he suffered some loss of performance from his ankle injury...at least I think he did. That was compounded by other injuries...Would I have preferred one of the other more gifted and less wounded guys stood up and replaced him...YEA. Does that make me question scheme/ability to teach it...YEA.

In terms of 2016...I really don't know. 2015 had a ton of veterans and super individual ball players...if the defense improves markedly, I'll be surprised.

 

[Wingman Ray]

For whatever reason, BK seems to be quite enamored by BVG. He has publicly stated the defense woes was personnel related and not BVGs coaching error. I dont know if he is doing this to show a unified front to keep people's/recruit's hopes up or if truly believes it.

I would think any good coach would adjust to the personnel somewhat instead of being thickheaded and pushing full speed ahead with his desired gameplan. I mean, Lord knows every OC was able to exploit BVGs defense so it definitely wasnt like BVG was some kind of defensive guru.

 

[kmoose]

I mean, Lord knows every OC was able to exploit BVGs defense so it definitely wasnt like BVG was some kind of defensive guru.

define "exploit"?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

As for Joe, he suffered some loss of performance from his ankle injury...at least I think he did. That was compounded by other injuries...Would I have preferred one of the other more gifted and less wounded guys stood up and replaced him...YEA. Does that make me question scheme/ability to teach it...YEA.

In terms of 2016...I really don't know. 2015 had a ton of veterans and super individual ball players...if the defense improves markedly, I'll be surprised.

Joe had a broken hand, which like Mathias Farley, ruined most of a season. He also just had, or will have shoulder surgery. Surgery he could have had during the last several games of the season, but chose not to, because this was it for him. No coming back.

Who else, other than Greer Martini did they have that could play the position with any reliability?

I talked to Pete Samson, and the point of everything we discussed related to Joe, BVG and defense, is that BVG got real sophisticated with his defense this year based upon having Jarron Jones, Joe Schmidt healthy, and Jaylon Smith. So after he implemented this thing, everything did turn to sh1t on a cracker.

What do you do? Change your defense, before you play two option teams? When exactly?

For whatever reason, BK seems to be quite enamored by BVG. He has publicly stated the defense woes was personnel related and not BVGs coaching error. I dont know if he is doing this to show a unified front to keep people's/recruit's hopes up or if truly believes it.

I would think any good coach would adjust to the personnel somewhat instead of being thickheaded and pushing full speed ahead with his desired gameplan. I mean, Lord knows every OC was able to exploit BVGs defense so it definitely wasnt like BVG was some kind of defensive guru.

Really? You think he has a narcissistic streak? Maybe, but what coach doesn't, at least a little.

I think he is responding tactically to those that are calling for scrapping his defense. Not that those calls mean much to either Brian, but continuity, and harmony look a lot better.

And like when he called Jaylon out for not being more vocal, he said, "I don't see you making the players around you better." That was not very sophisticated, and probably realistically ended any shot ND had at getting Smith to return for his senior year. But it was the truth as BVG saw it, and I understood exactly what he was saying.

A specific question I heard him asked by a reporter was related to reasons for the defense stumbling after the first game which really made that a more appropriate primary reason, as an answer.

And, the biggest factor I forgot several posts above, was a change in philosophy on both sides of the ball. This was a mandate by Kelly, and was promoted because Kelly finally had a stable of quarterbacks (for the first time, that could run his defense.) In the Diaco years, the offense was lower scoring, and more on the time of possession. Perfect example is the beginning of the SC game. The tying ND touchdown drive was one 75 yard play, which only elapsed a dozen and a half seconds, or so. It is hard for a defense to switch gears like that.

 

[ulukinatme]

For whatever reason, BK seems to be quite enamored by BVG. He has publicly stated the defense woes was personnel related and not BVGs coaching error. I dont know if he is doing this to show a unified front to keep people's/recruit's hopes up or if truly believes it.

I would think any good coach would adjust to the personnel somewhat instead of being thickheaded and pushing full speed ahead with his desired gameplan. I mean, Lord knows every OC was able to exploit BVGs defense so it definitely wasnt like BVG was some kind of defensive guru.

Not even Dick LeBeau could have kept our defense clicking after all the injuries over the last few years. When you look at the defense when they've been mostly healthy, they've done fairly well to extremely well. We really need at least one mostly healthy year before we can really gauge how well BVG is doing. At any rate, our defense certainly has some good experience after the last few years, so it should be easier to transition players into holes made by departing players (Even if some shoes are impossible to fill, like Jaylon's).

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Not even Dick LeBeau could have kept our defense clicking after all the injuries over the last few years. When you look at the defense when they've been mostly healthy, they've done fairly well to extremely well. We really need at least one mostly healthy year before we can really gauge how well BVG is doing. At any rate, our defense certainly has some good experience after the last few years, so it should be easier to transition players into holes made by departing players (Even if some shoes are impossible to fill, like Jaylon's).

I'm one more year of near catastrophic injuries away before I start blaming coaches, regardless of how the hell the injury happens. At some point it's not just bad luck, it's something else. Wish like hell we could figure it the fuck out, other big teams don't seem to have players drop like we do.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm one more year of near catastrophic injuries away before I start blaming coaches, regardless of how the hell the injury happens. At some point it's not just bad luck, it's something else. Wish like hell we could figure it the fuck out, other big teams don't seem to have players drop like we do.

Except UCLA and Georgia.

 

[phgreek]

Joe had a broken hand, which like Mathias Farley, ruined most of a season. He also just had, or will have shoulder surgery. Surgery he could have had during the last several games of the season, but chose not to, because this was it for him. No coming back.

Who else, other than Greer Martini did they have that could play the position with any reliability?

I talked to Pete Samson, and the point of everything we discussed related to Joe, BVG and defense, is that BVG got real sophisticated with his defense this year based upon having Jarron Jones, Joe Schmidt healthy, and Jaylon Smith. So after he implemented this thing, everything did turn to sh1t on a cracker.

What do you do? Change your defense, before you play two option teams? When exactly?

I hear ya...don't take what I'm saying as anything like a knock on Joe...he was wounded and not even recovered from the ankle injury.

My point was...someone SHOULD have been able to step in...there are kids bigger and faster...it is year 2. So obviously they couldn't get it...

Thats a problem...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I hear ya...don't take what I'm saying as anything like a knock on Joe...he was wounded and not even recovered from the ankle injury.

My point was...someone SHOULD have been able to step in...there are kids bigger and faster...it is year 2. So obviously they couldn't get it...

Thats a problem...

Exactly!

I agree 100%! Except that isn't the end of the point. In addition please consider :

• The cupboards were that thin at MLB, with Morgan not getting it and Coney needed elsewhere.
• BVG figured on a healthy Joe Schmidt and built the sophistication of his defense accordingly.

The kind of numbers I have heard is that if Joe could do four dozen things, Morgan could do four or five. Maybe.

So that leaves the question, when you have worked from January to October on implementing a defense, do you scrap it because you are forced to change personnel? Remember, the whole concept of that kind of defense is to confuse and misdirect, and requires some sophistication; that defense in vanilla is worthless. A bad offensive coordinator could hack it up in pieces.

The reason I believe this was a true reflection of the quandary in which the staff found themselves, is because they never attempted to leave Greer Martini in the position.

So I don't agree with anything you say. Personally I would have put Greer in the position, but that is why BVG is under the gun, and I sit back and collect the big bucks!

 

[phgreek]

Exactly!

I agree 100%! Except that isn't the end of the point. In addition please consider :

• The cupboards were that thin at MLB, with Morgan not getting it and Coney needed elsewhere.
• BVG figured on a healthy Joe Schmidt and built the sophistication of his defense accordingly.

The kind of numbers I have heard is that if Joe could do four dozen things, Morgan could do four or five. Maybe.

So that leaves the question, when you have worked from January to October on implementing a defense, do you scrap it because you are forced to change personnel? Remember, the whole concept of that kind of defense is to confuse and misdirect, and requires some sophistication; that defense in vanilla is worthless. A bad offensive coordinator could hack it up in pieces.

The reason I believe this was a true reflection of the quandary in which the staff found themselves, is because they never attempted to leave Greer Martini in the position.

So I don't agree with anything you say. Personally I would have put Greer in the position, but that is why BVG is under the gun, and I sit back and collect the big bucks!

my point is alluding to a bigger issue than personnel...ie Joe's job as a linebacker. I think Morgan is bigger and faster than Joe. I think he can play linebacker, even BVG's linebacker. Should have been a no brainer when Joe was banged up. I think the issue is no one else at any position could make the calls, and check alignment, etc...so, Joe was "indispensable" not due to his core linebacking position performance, but because NO ONE gets the defense but Joe. So I'm not necessarily talking about a situation where the backup wasn't ready at linebacker...its that NO ONE was ready to take over the QB of the defense role. Realistically, that can be either safety, any middle backer, etc. So no one on the two deep at any of those positions could do it...in year two. 4 positions at two deep...theoretically 8 guys...two years in...and only one can do it???? The dire need was made evident in 2014 to have multiple guys get it on a level that could lead on the field...ie Joe's level....aaaand, it didn't happen.....aaaand it hurt again.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

my point is alluding to a bigger issue than personnel...ie Joe's job as a linebacker. I think Morgan is bigger and faster than Joe. I think he can play linebacker, even BVG's linebacker. Should have been a no brainer when Joe was banged up. I think the issue is no one else at any position could make the calls, and check alignment, etc...so, Joe was "indispensable" not due to his core linebacking position performance, but because NO ONE gets the defense but Joe. So I'm not necessarily talking about a situation where the backup wasn't ready at linebacker...its that NO ONE was ready to take over the QB of the defense role. Realistically, that can be either safety, any middle backer, etc. So no one on the two deep at any of those positions could do it...in year two. 4 positions at two deep...theoretically 8 guys...two years in...and only one can do it???? The dire need was made evident in 2014 to have multiple guys get it on a level that could lead on the field...ie Joe's level....aaaand, it didn't happen.....aaaand it hurt again.

Again, you are correct. I am agreeing with you, but looking at it from a different perspective. It was a tremendous gamble to put all the defenses' eggs in one (Joe Schmidt) basket; but BVG and BK made that gamble and lost big.

But that criticism, though really warranted, is not indicative of 'coaching' per se. It is management. In an NFL team, that issue would be controlled by franchise management, not coaching. So I think that Brian Kelly's input and direction in this case were just as faulty and culpable as BVG's. That is all.

Early indications are that the defense is going to be simplified and streamlined this year. Even with the loss of Jaylon Smith the linebacking core should be okay, better at every other position, with greater depth. And hopefully Jarron Jones will be back full bore as a pocket collapser, and run stopper extraordinaire! Also, I am really looking forward to wholesale improvements in the db corps.

 

[RDU Irish]

How exactly does one expect all 11 guys to execute well on ANY play, let alone consistently, when only one guy "knows the defense"?? It just adds too many variables when we don't need to. Our talent should be such that we can line up and beat 2/3rds of the teams on our schedule. Why not then save some of the exotics for the other 1/3rd that we stalemate or have areas of deficiency? Learn those 4/5 things very well so we can scale back in cases of injury or just pure physical domination and then you can probably get away with 20 instead of 40 additional steps since you are not using them every game. It is probably an exponential chart if you graph out the comprehension versus complexity - this is an actual University and they have limited time to absorb info.

To my untrained eye - Diaco did not have an extra gear for the defense to pick it up against those top tier offenses/QBs. It was execute a simple plan well - get 11 guys doing one or two things very, very well and wait for the other team to muff it.

 

[kmoose]

my point is alluding to a bigger issue than personnel...ie Joe's job as a linebacker. I think Morgan is bigger and faster than Joe. I think he can play linebacker, even BVG's linebacker. Should have been a no brainer when Joe was banged up. I think the issue is no one else at any position could make the calls, and check alignment, etc...so, Joe was "indispensable" not due to his core linebacking position performance, but because NO ONE gets the defense but Joe. So I'm not necessarily talking about a situation where the backup wasn't ready at linebacker...its that NO ONE was ready to take over the QB of the defense role. Realistically, that can be either safety, any middle backer, etc. So no one on the two deep at any of those positions could do it...in year two. 4 positions at two deep...theoretically 8 guys...two years in...and only one can do it???? The dire need was made evident in 2014 to have multiple guys get it on a level that could lead on the field...ie Joe's level....aaaand, it didn't happen.....aaaand it hurt again.

The thing is........ no coach has ever, to my knowledge, said that Schmidt was in there because he was the only one who could get everyone lined up right. I think some sportscasters alluded to that, and fans on the internet just jumped on it and suddenly it became "a fact" simply because so many people were repeating it.

If you listened to the postgame show each week on und.com, Reggie Brooks talked about this toward the end of the season. Reggie was plenty critical of Joe Schmidt all year, and is by no means a "company man". According to Reggie, who actually watched most practices over the course of the season; Schmidt's strength was that he was always where he was supposed to be on the field. He might not have been athletic enough to make the play, but he was in the spot he was supposed to be. The guys behind him apparently had issues "doing their job". They were more often than not OUT of position, because they were trying to be heroes and make all of the plays. So I think the coaches said, "We'd rather have a disciplined guy who struggles physically, and know that his mere presence in "x" area of the field takes certain things away from the offense, than to have a more athletic, undisciplined guy out there who is constantly out of position and leaving huge gaps for the offense to exploit."?

 

[ulukinatme]

The thing is........ no coach has ever, to my knowledge, said that Schmidt was in there because he was the only one who could get everyone lined up right. I think some sportscasters alluded to that, and fans on the internet just jumped on it and suddenly it became "a fact" simply because so many people were repeating it.

If you listened to the postgame show each week on und.com, Reggie Brooks talked about this toward the end of the season. Reggie was plenty critical of Joe Schmidt all year, and is by no means a "company man". According to Reggie, who actually watched most practices over the course of the season; Schmidt's strength was that he was always where he was supposed to be on the field. He might not have been athletic enough to make the play, but he was in the spot he was supposed to be. The guys behind him apparently had issues "doing their job". They were more often than not OUT of position, because they were trying to be heroes and make all of the plays. So I think the coaches said, "We'd rather have a disciplined guy who struggles physically, and know that his mere presence in "x" area of the field takes certain things away from the offense, than to have a more athletic, undisciplined guy out there who is constantly out of position and leaving huge gaps for the offense to exploit."?

That seems to make the most sense, and the reasoning is sound. If a player is out of position, he'll make a play probably 0% of the time. However, if Joe is in position he'll at least have a decent shot to make a play, even if he's not the most athletically gifted. Even if he doesn't make the play, he may slow a player down to allow someone like Jaylon to clean it up. If Joe was injured, it would make sense that getting healthy for the bowl was helpful as that was probably his best game of the year.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The thing is........ no coach has ever, to my knowledge, said that Schmidt was in there because he was the only one who could get everyone lined up right. I think some sportscasters alluded to that, and fans on the internet just jumped on it and suddenly it became "a fact" simply because so many people were repeating it.

If you listened to the postgame show each week on und.com, Reggie Brooks talked about this toward the end of the season. Reggie was plenty critical of Joe Schmidt all year, and is by no means a "company man". According to Reggie, who actually watched most practices over the course of the season; Schmidt's strength was that he was always where he was supposed to be on the field. He might not have been athletic enough to make the play, but he was in the spot he was supposed to be. The guys behind him apparently had issues "doing their job". They were more often than not OUT of position, because they were trying to be heroes and make all of the plays. So I think the coaches said, "We'd rather have a disciplined guy who struggles physically, and know that his mere presence in "x" area of the field takes certain things away from the offense, than to have a more athletic, undisciplined guy out there who is constantly out of position and leaving huge gaps for the offense to exploit."?

Reps sir! And the follow up to your interesting post is that someone that was always out of position would have less misses than an injured guy with less athleticism, that was in position!

And the next level of inquiry is, do coaches keep track of players out of position, like many insist that coaches keep track of tackles missed. As a coach, I would rather have a tackle missed, because even with that a ball carrier should slow down, change course, (etc.,) but with a missed tackle there may be no 'stack up' for additional defenders to clean up after! To me a guy taking a shot and not bringing a ball carrier down is always better than being out of position, which most of the time means a wide open running lane!

Kudos, Kmoose!