BVG Fired

[BleedBlueGold]

That was the only upside to BvG's aggressive scheme. When the pressure was working, it lead to a lot of 3-and-outs. But it somehow failed to generate many TOs (probably because he was already asking too much of a beleaguered secondary), and gave up a huge number of explosive plays.

I'm with Sampson on this. Despite the injuries on their side of the ball, Sanford and BK fielded one of the best offenses in the country. All we needed from BvG was "good", and he had more than enough NFL-caliber talent to make that happen. Instead, his scheme cost us a spot in the playoff.

Going into the season, I think most of us assumed the defense would give up more big plays, as that's the nature of the defense. But we also assumed it'd provide more turnovers or at the very least create more pressure forcing opponents into bad decisions, etc. We basically saw this defense give up more than a fair share of big plays but also rank very very low in the turnover category. That's unfortunate.

I agree with you and Sampson (although better red zone TD% for the offense would've helped eliminate that altogether). I've been saying it ever since Saturday's loss: This team looks every bit the part of a #1 ranked team when they put it all together. Problem is, it rarely happened. The offense is basically unstoppable except when inside the 20. The defense has a ton of talent. Special teams has dependable kickers and thanks to BK finally making the switch to CJ, a respectable return game as well. Maybe 2016 it all comes together. But it's hard to not step back and look at this team and say "wow, these guys are pretty damn good...or at least can be." Two losses by a combined 4 points, both on the road, at night, against top 10 opponents. That's crazy to me given the injuries.

I'd add that another great point from that article is the illustration of how bad some of those offenses were that we were playing against. 5 of them outside the top 80 nationally.

Yeah this is just plain sad and unacceptable. Way too much talent on this roster.

 

[Grahambo]

ISD power hour had some good commentary on BVG and how they can't even tell what coverage we are in most of the time.

I doubt BVG leaves but would welcome a change and have someone let these kids play football..enough nuclear physics!

Yup. I was gonna comment on that as well. Bill Regan pretty much threw his hands up in the air on the coverages we would run. He said he absolutely had no idea what was going on most of the time. Brought up the issues we all brought up in regards to the last play of the game. Essentially, how do you have 4 players to the boundary side and 3 to the field. Joe stood still and he had no idea what the secondary was doing.

The general consensus is that BK doesn't fire guys so unless BVG takes another job elsewhere then he's here to stay. But, he wouldn't rule out BVG taking one for the team and leaving on his own (more so implying after next season if the D doesn't take a step forward).

They also put blame on the refs who had a horrendous game. Three in particular: the obvious DPI against Butler, on Hooper's TD with having a lineman cover him up, and on the 2 pt conversion when you can see clear as day Will Fuller get his jersey pulled badly for an obvious penalty.

And as Koon put it, unlike the Irish Illustrated guys who made plenty of excuses for Joe Schmidt, they were on him for some time now. Put blame on the coaches for not having others prepared too.

ISD Power Hour is a good listen.

 

[dang227]

Yup. I was gonna comment on that as well. Bill Regan pretty much threw his hands up in the air on the coverages we would run. He said he absolutely had no idea what was going on most of the time. Brought up the issues we all brought up in regards to the last play of the game. Essentially, how do you have 4 players to the boundary side and 3 to the field. Joe stood still and he had no idea what the secondary was doing.

The general consensus is that BK doesn't fire guys so unless BVG takes another job elsewhere then he's here to stay. But, he wouldn't rule out BVG taking one for the team and leaving on his own (more so implying after next season if the D doesn't take a step forward).

They also put blame on the refs who had a horrendous game. Three in particular: the obvious DPI against Butler, on Hooper's TD with having a lineman cover him up, and on the 2 pt conversion when you can see clear as day Will Fuller get his jersey pulled badly for an obvious penalty.

And as Koon put it, unlike the Irish Illustrated guys who made plenty of excuses for Joe Schmidt, they were on him for some time now. Put blame on the coaches for not having others prepared too.

ISD Power Hour is a good listen.

It was a very good listen yesterday. By far the most critical I have heard Regan. As I said in another thread. it is really heard to figure our what coverage we are in sometimes especially that final play. Regan has been a good addition to ISD. He has been around and I appreciate his analysis. He is overall positive but will call it like he sees it.

 

[Grahambo]

It was a very good listen yesterday. By far the most critical I have heard Regan. As I said in another thread. it is really heard to figure our what coverage we are in sometimes especially that final play. Regan has been a good addition to ISD. He has been around and I appreciate his analysis. He is overall positive but will call it like he sees it.

I like them because they are honest. They aren't homers and call it like it is. Bill has been awesome all year on the show and Mike Frank is good too.

I've been trying to get Matt Freeman on the show too. I know you see this Freeman.

 

[Redbar]

Article by Tim Prister on Scout:

Notre Dame Fighting Irish Football, Basketball, and Recruiting Front Page

Could not have stated it better. Defense is not offense, it is defense. Reading and reacting is always going to be a part of good defense. You cannot attack all the time.

 

[kmoose]

Does anyone really believe that 1) he dumbs down his system and 2) this defense will be better w/o Jaylon, Day, Okwara, Shumate, and Russell? Not to mention his glorified "on-the-field coach" Schmidt.

My best guess as of now:

DL: DE*, Rochelle, Cage, Tillery (*Trumbetti maybe?)
LB: Onwualu, Martini, Morgan, Coney
Corner: Crawford, Luke
Safety: Redfield, S* (*I honestly don't know...Mykelti Williams maybe?)

Are those your regulars? Pretty solid lineup. Talent-wise, looks like a potential Top 25 defense...but on paper, they basically had the same thing this year, no?

Drue Tranquill

 

[Wingman Ray]

At the end of the day, we need a top 25 D.
We are 43rd total right now. 31 passing, 65 rushing. 36 scoring, and 51 efficiency.

I think he gets another year, but not much more.

I just hope he can dumb it down. Our academic standards do impact our ability here, but I do think we can expect better.

I sure hope something happens with him offseason wise. I hate the thought of ND 2016 season being hijacked due to a piss poor defensive scheme. I dont see defense getting better. If anything, it will be worse without Jaylon, Day and Russell.

I guess saving grace will be USC and Stanford will be breaking in brand new QBs and of course, Texas will still suck.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Drue Tranquill

I hope not. Drue's great in the box, and assuming he makes another full recovery, he should be able to fill the role Farley will be vacating quite well. But he's a major liability in coverage.

 

[ND NYC]

at some point these players need to execute on the field and make the play (read: make the tackle, defend the pass)

the luke (should have knocked ball down) td play and the butler td play (just wrap the guy up) are obvious examples.

get tired of all this "don't blame the players blame the coach" type talk.

in those two (huge) plays he had what he needed, had the guys in right spots IMO and alas, they just didn't execute on the field.

I think BVG he does the best he can with what he has.

 

[GATTACA!]

Drue Tranquill

If your safeties are Max and Drue you better not be asking them to cover anyone. Drue was great against the run when he can come up and hit someone in the mouth, but I don't have a ton of confidence with him against the pass for a full season.

 

[Wingman Ray]

at some point these players need to execute on the field and make the play (read: make the tackle, defend the pass)

the luke (should have knocked ball down) td play and the butler td play (just wrap the guy up) are obvious examples.

get tired of all this "don't blame the players blame the coach" type talk.

in those two (huge) plays he had what he needed, had the guys in right spots IMO and alas, they just didn't execute on the field.

I think BVG he does the best he can with what he has.

I hear what you are saying but if you go off of recruiting ratings, he does less with a lot more talent than every other DC. Please give me one DC that has had top 10 recruiting talent for the past four years and gives up 24 drives of 75+ yards or more?

I realize stars arent everything but the do seem to be quite a bit for every team's defense except one called Notre Dame.

 

[kmoose]

I hear what you are saying but if you go off of recruiting ratings, he does less with a lot more talent than every other DC. Please give me one DC that has had top 10 recruiting talent for the past four years and gives up 24 drives of 75+ yards or more?

I realize stars arent everything but the do seem to be quite a bit for every team's defense except one called Notre Dame.

Let's talk about that Top 10 recruiting talent for the past four years, shall we?

1. When did the ratings services start ranking recruiting classes by offense and defense? Just because the overall class has been Top 10, does not mean that VanGorder has gotten top 10 classes each year.

2. In the past 4 years, ND has signed 21 4* or 5* defensive guys:

2012
Sheldon Day: 4* - Active
Jarron Jones: 4* - Injured
Keivarae Russell: 4* - Active
Tee Shepard: 4* - Never got in to the University
Elijah Sumate: 4* - Active

2013
Cole Luke: 4* - Active
James Onwualu: 4* - Injured
Doug Randolph: 4* -Active
Max Redfield: 5* - Active
Isaac Rochell: 4* - Active
Jaylon Smith: 5* - Active
Eddie Vanderdoes: 5* - Never enrolled

2014
Jay Hayes: 4* - Active
Nyles Morgan: 4* - Active
Nick Watkins: 4* - Active

2015
Josh Barajas: 4* - Active
Asmir Bilal: 4* - Active
Tevon Coney: 4* - Active
Shawn Crawford: 4* - Injured
Jerry Tillery: 4* - Active
Mykelti Williams: 4* - Active

That's 21 players overall. 5 of those players, or almost one fourth, are not available. Either because they didn't ever make it into the school(Shepard, Vanderdoes), or because of injury(Onwualu, Jones, Crawford). Of the 16 who are left over, half of them are true freshmen or sophomores. So let's not pretend like the two deep is littered with 4 and 5 star upperclassmen who should be dominating college football. If stars were money, Brian VanGorder would not be anywhere near poor. But neither would he be in the highest tax bracket.

 

[Luckylucci]

Our starting defense is as followed using the 247 composite:

FS Max Redfield (5 star, top 50, UA AA)
SS Elijah Shumate (4 star, top 100, Army AA)
CB KVR (4 star, top 150, Army AA)
CB Cole Luke (4 star, top 150)
LB JO ( 4 star)
LB Joe Schmidt (NR) playing by choice of DC
LB Jaylon Smith ( 5 star, top 10, Army AA
DE. Romeo Okwara ( 3 star). Andrew Trumbetti (4 star, top 150, UA AA)
DT. Tillery/Cage ( both 4 star)
DT. Sheldon Day ( 4 star, top 150)
DE. Isaac Rochell (4 star, top 150)

Yea can't say that any rational person would look at this and say it lacks talent. That's why I've read numerous pieces from different sites and not one has a narrative of how BVG has a lack of talent to work with.

 

[kmoose]

Our starting defense is as followed using the 247 composite:

FS Max Redfield (5 star, top 50, UA AA)
SS Elijah Shumate (4 star, top 100, Army AA)
CB KVR (4 star, top 150, Army AA)
CB Cole Luke (4 star, top 150)
LB JO ( 4 star)
LB Joe Schmidt (NR) playing by choice of DC
LB Jaylon Smith ( 5 star, top 10, Army AA
DE. Romeo Okwara ( 3 star). Andrew Trumbetti (4 star, top 150, UA AA)
DT. Tillery/Cage ( both 4 star)
DT. Sheldon Day ( 4 star, top 150)
DE. Isaac Rochell (4 star, top 150)

Yea can't say that any rational person would look at this and say it lacks talent. That's why I've read numerous pieces from different sites and not one has a narrative of how BVG has a lack of talent to work with.

Who has ever said that he has a lack of talent to work with?

 

[Luckylucci]

7 of 11 starters were top 150 players in their respective classes all are either Juniors or Seniors. If you add Trumbetti to that mix as well but he's a sophomore and I bet, with a lot of confidence, if they would've rated Tillery as a DT, he would've been top 150 as well. Poor BVG.

 

[kmoose]

7 of 11 starters were top 150 players in their respective classes all are either Juniors or Seniors. If you add Trumbetti to that mix as well but he's a sophomore and I bet, with a lot of confidence, if they would've rated Tillery as a DT, he would've been top 150 as well. Poor BVG.

Again........... who is saying "poor BVG"?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Again........... who is saying "poor BVG"?

I don't remember who or what thread, but someone's post was along the lines of 'he's doing the best with what he has.'

 

[kmoose]

I don't remember who or what thread, but someone's post was along the lines of 'he's doing the best with what he has.'

Is lucci not able to speak for himself? I see what you are saying, but I don't think anyone really thinks that VanGorder doesn't have some talent to work with.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Is lucci not able to speak for himself? I see what you are saying, but I don't think anyone really thinks that VanGorder doesn't have some talent to work with.

Judging by his post count he has no issues. However, neither do I

 

[Luckylucci]

Who has ever said that he has a lack of talent to work with?

No one, I didn't quote a post. Just agreeing with everyone that the D clearly doesn't lack talent.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I have rewatched every game over my last four days off and having removed myself from the ups and downs of the season, this defensive scheme was not proper for what this team was and is. DBs were thin and not lockdown, cover type CBs, and instead of protecting them and the lackluster cover safeties, they were brutalized over and over by very little pass rush and unsuccessful blitz after blitz. I am also baffled by the coverage schemes, I played in the slot as WR in college and I can tell you right now I was a cerebral guy that could pick up coverages within a step off the line, and I can't figure out what the hell coverage is 70% of the time. It's just crazy.

The scheme just seemed to hamper this group of defensive players, aside from the NFL caliber talent that was going to be great regardless. I think Shumate had a good year, but he was average in coverage. JO played pretty well too, impressed with him. Okwara had his best year in a ND uniform and was the only legit edge rusher all year. Day is the defensive MVP of the year IMO, Jaylon a close second.

And just an overall lack of turnovers and how in the world can they not r cover more of the fumbles that were caused. It's just a little wonky.

Overall, the defense was the weakest part of the team. The offense and the special teams were far and away better than the defense this, and that is just not something I think most of us would have thought coming into this season.

 

[PANDFAN]

i don't typically weigh in on this kind of stuff....HOWEVER, not sure if anyone has brought this up and don't want to read through all the banter...but WHAT IF , Richt gets the Miami job.....does he call BVG? just a thought i had

 

[GoldenDomer]

i don't typically weigh in on this kind of stuff....HOWEVER, not sure if anyone has brought this up and don't want to read through all the banter...but WHAT IF , Richt gets the Miami job.....does he call BVG? just a thought i had

 

[PANDFAN]

 

[phgreek]

i don't typically weigh in on this kind of stuff....HOWEVER, not sure if anyone has brought this up and don't want to read through all the banter...but WHAT IF , Richt gets the Miami job.....does he call BVG? just a thought i had

not excited about another DC change...but if it comes about, oh well. The last time I was crushed about a DC leaving was Freakin Alvarez...wander what he's doing .

 

[koonja]

I'm 100% indifferent about BVG. I don't care if he goes or if he stays. If he leaves, nice knowing you. If he stays, cool.

Longo can GTFO.

 

[Irish Insanity]

i don't typically weigh in on this kind of stuff....HOWEVER, not sure if anyone has brought this up and don't want to read through all the banter...but WHAT IF , Richt gets the Miami job.....does he call BVG? just a thought i had

We need a run of prayer pics for this.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I'm 100% indifferent about BVG. I don't care if he goes or if he stays. If he leaves, nice knowing you. If he stays, cool.

Longo can GTFO.

 

[CIrishWin]

Our starting defense is as followed using the 247 composite:

FS Max Redfield (5 star, top 50, UA AA)
SS Elijah Shumate (4 star, top 100, Army AA)
CB KVR (4 star, top 150, Army AA)
CB Cole Luke (4 star, top 150)
LB JO ( 4 star)
LB Joe Schmidt (NR) playing by choice of DC
LB Jaylon Smith ( 5 star, top 10, Army AA
DE. Romeo Okwara ( 3 star). Andrew Trumbetti (4 star, top 150, UA AA)
DT. Tillery/Cage ( both 4 star)
DT. Sheldon Day ( 4 star, top 150)
DE. Isaac Rochell (4 star, top 150)

Yea can't say that any rational person would look at this and say it lacks talent. That's why I've read numerous pieces from different sites and not one has a narrative of how BVG has a lack of talent to work with.

Not saying Poor BVG

FS Max Redfield Coming out most said he would be a better WR
SS Elijah Shumate Performed ok in system
CB KVR (4 star, top 150, Army AA as a running back)
CB Cole Luke (4 star, top 150) Report on him coming out well in zone coverage not man to man
LB JO ( 4 star) ATH not linebacker which he had never played
LB Joe Schmidt (NR) playing by choice of DC *He likes this kid for some reason
LB Jaylon Smith ( 5 star, top 10, Army AA well it is Jaylon
DE. Romeo Okwara ( 3 star) Never worked with a real d-line coach until this year
. Andrew Trumbetti (4 star, top 150, UA AA) played well at times
DT. Tillery/Cage ( both 4 star) Cage was a 3 Star in Rivals took a year to get weight under control Tillery played well as a true freshman
DT. Sheldon Day ( 4 star, top 150) Played great
DE. Isaac Rochell (4 star, top 150) 4 star DE in a 3-4 not 4-3 does not have speed to get around the edge

Star Rankings are subjective according to rivals Cage and Trumbetti were 3 Star. But they also had Tyrone Swoopes as a 4 Star QB. I say give another year with a real d-line coach and lets see what happens if nothing changes next season please delete this message

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Redfield is absolute trash, Joe was awful this year and James O is worthless on D. None should even be playing, they freaking started and barely subbed for. Was it bvg or Kelly keeping them on field. Mix that with the best de okwara playing fucking pass coverage like 30-40% of the time = fail.