Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

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tussin

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It seems to go beyond a few amenities. From what I'm reading/hearing, the facilities issue is not just about a barber shop and an infinity pool. The current facilities are so far below the standard that they are used against ND in recruiting, and the coaches have said it matters.

We lose more kids because of bags and academics than facilities and this whole discussion around facilities probably amounts to one recruit a year. And despite all of that, when you look at the recruiting rankings ND is sitting with the #2 class in the country right now.

Not discounting that as one high-level recruit can make a difference at the right position, but my intuition is that this is a smokescreen for the simple fact that BK got a massive raise to go to a school where he can bring in whatever kids he wants no questions asked.
 

NDdomer2

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real talk how many programs have mental health teams? I know ND's was fairly new. Is it common place or was BK ahead of the curve there?
 

Whiskeyjack

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We lose more kids because of bags and academics than facilities and this whole discussion around facilities probably amounts to one recruit a year. And despite all of that, when you look at the recruiting rankings ND is sitting with the #2 class in the country right now.

Not discounting that as one high-level recruit can make a different at the right position, but my intuition is that this is a lot of smokescreen for the simple fact that BK got a massive raise to go to a school where he can bring in whatever kids he wants no questions asked.

I think it's a respect issue. ND refuses to provide a lot of stuff that our main competitors don't think twice about offering. Why refuse to hire a mental performance coach other than to put the football program in it's place? Our pockets are nearly bottomless. We can easily provide those sorts of reasonable amenities without plastering the Gug with 80'' flat screens and infinity-edge pools.
 

IrishTusker

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We lose more kids because of bags and academics than facilities and this whole discussion around facilities probably amounts to one recruit a year. And despite all of that, when you look at the recruiting rankings ND is sitting with the #2 class in the country right now.

Not discounting that as one high-level recruit can make a difference at the right position, but my intuition is that this is a smokescreen for the simple fact that BK got a massive raise to go to a school where he can bring in whatever kids he wants no questions asked.

True, but ND has tons of money. There should never be any suggestion that its facilities are anything other than top-notch. This is a serious problem. There is nothing "shameful" about spending more money about facilities, etc.
 

tussin

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I think it's a respect issue. ND refuses to provide a lot of stuff that our main competitors don't think twice about offering. Why refuse to hire a mental performance coach other than to put the football program in it's place? Our pockets are nearly bottomless. We can easily provide those sorts of reasonable amenities without plastering the Gug with 80'' flat screens and infinity-edge pools.

Are you of the position that Kelly would have left if the money was matched? I agree with what you said but it’s still a small factor. Occam’s Razor most certainly applies here.
 

Irish#1

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So when is this plane supposed to land so we can see who exits the clown car???

I would imagine flight on a private jet takes a couple of hours. The key is knowing what airfield they're going to land at.
 

Free Manera

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We lose more kids because of bags and academics than facilities and this whole discussion around facilities probably amounts to one recruit a year. And despite all of that, when you look at the recruiting rankings ND is sitting with the #2 class in the country right now.

Not discounting that as one high-level recruit can make a different at the right position, but my intuition is that this is a lot of smokescreen for the simple fact that BK got a massive raise to go to a school where he can bring in whatever kids he wants no questions asked.

That's fine if you just want to be in the discussion. If you want to compete for championships, for real, not in the "compete for championships" way that ND has done it under Kelly, where everyone knows you don't have the horses, then you need every tool at your disposal.

Not having private transportation to recruit is a massive problem by itself, considering MAC schools even do that. You have guys landing on high school campuses in private, university-branded helicopters. Then you have Freeman taking the red eye from some bumblefuck airport but getting delayed on his connecting flight. Which means more time away from his family and job.

Facilities matter for player development which is why it matters to recruits. Better facilities mean easier lives for players outside of the classroom; more time for development; better access to recovery and nutrition; better equipment; more space.

What this all boils down to is ND coaches and players waste more time and energy, and endure more stress, than the competitors do.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Are you of the position that Kelly would have left if the money was matched? I agree with what you said but it’s still a small factor. Occam’s Razor most certainly applies here.

I think it's a combination of factors that add up to, "ND makes it much harder to win than other places." It's taken multiple coaches decades to drag the admin kicking and screaming into the 21st century regarding our facilities and competitive pay. And even now, there's a lot of stuff they ought to have access to, but ND just refuses to provide due to some inscrutable principle.

So if I'm Kelly, and my requests for reasonable accommodations have been denied year after year, and another program comes along, offers to double my salary and give me anything else I ask for... I get why he'd leave. Our admin sounds like a nightmare to work for.
 

GowerND11

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Are you of the position that Kelly would have left if the money was matched? I agree with what you said but it’s still a small factor. Occam’s Razor most certainly applies here.

CBK: Hey admin, we are so so so close to winning. We need 1-2 players, and just a few upgrades. Mental health is a big issue today, let's get out in front of it.

Admin: This is Notre Dame. Our academics are superior to others, and you are winning 10 games a year. What do you need all that for?

CBK: I believe we can deliver a NC to this university in the next 5 years if we make some reasonable upgrades though. We have the money. I don't need more money even.

Admin: We're good. This is your dream job. Stay in your lane.


This couldn't be plausible too?
 

ulukinatme

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True, but ND has tons of money. There should never be any suggestion that its facilities are anything other than top-notch. This is a serious problem. There is nothing "shameful" about spending more money about facilities, etc.

As mentioned, most of the current and former players on the discussion last night seemed surprised by the facilities argument. There were a few little things they would have liked to have, but they were all asking each other, "What are we really lacking?" They made it seem like it was a factor for coaches maybe, but not them. For instance they said something like having turf down in the area for lineman walkthroughs or something...it was something they would have liked to have, but wasn't a big deal. It's not a serious problem. Should we do it? Absolutely, but the general feeling was facilities aren't bad at all.
 

Irish#1

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Pretty good article from si.com. Apparently this is Kelly's modus operandi.

Brian Kelly has called a lot of creative plays over the years, but whenever he leaves a job, he dials up the same one. His players break the huddle and then realize Kelly is gone.

Even among all the unprofessional and selfish coaching moves we have seen in college sports, what Kelly pulled this week stands out. While his Notre Dame team waited to see whether it makes the College Football Playoff, Kelly took the LSU job. His players found out from news reports. According to The Athletic, Kelly sent them a message long after it broke saying, “whoops, sorry,” and asking them to show up at 7 a.m. for a team meeting. ESPN reported he spoke to them for 11 minutes. Halftimes last longer than that.

Kelly had been at Notre Dame since 2010.

Kelly’s “sincere apologies” are laughable; if he had acted sincerely, he wouldn’t have to apologize at all. He could have called a team meeting two days earlier and said LSU had called and he was considering a move. He could have waited to see whether his team has a shot to win the national championship before deciding he wanted to go somewhere else.

But this is how Brian Kelly always leaves. Always, always, always.

“I feel like there was a little lying in this thing. I feel like he’s known the whole time. I kind of had a gut feeling that he was going to stay because he told me he was going to be here. But it is what it is. He made a business decision.”

You know who could have warned Gilyard? Everybody at Central Michigan. Three years earlier, Kelly was negotiating a contract extension with CMU when he bolted for Cincinnati. CMU’s athletic director at the time, Dave Heeke, knew Kelly had been in the running for the Michigan State and Iowa State jobs, but those had been filled. Heeke had no idea Kelly had interviewed with Cincinnati. He called the way it happened, “disappointing and shocking, but it is what it is, so we’ll move forward.”

Heeke quickly addressed the Central Michigan players and announced the interim coach would be Jeff Quinn. This was news to Quinn. He had found out Kelly was leaving from another CMU staffer. Quinn had been working for Kelly for 18 years.

“I’m pretty sure everybody was disappointed,” linebacker Doug Kress told me then. “I was disappointed. ... Nobody has a problem with him leaving. It is just how he left.”

A few years before that, Kelly was coaching Division II Grand Valley State. He had built the Lakers into an absolute juggernaut, and in 2001, he told me this:

“I didn’t come to Grand Valley thinking I was going to end my career here in coaching. I thought this was one of the stops along the way. But I found a diamond in the rough. I have what I consider the finest job in college football. I have the opportunity to compete for national championships and not have the trappings of the Division I arena, the incredible pressure to win at all costs. I have absolutely found the job I want.”

The coach who did not want “the trappings of the Division I arena” or “the incredible pressure to win at all costs” just agreed to a $95 million contract at a place that fired a coach 21 months after winning a national championship.

Look: Coaches change jobs. At some point, most people do. Anybody looking at Kelly’s rise can see that every move made some sense. Coaches are also entitled to change their minds.

But aren’t people tired of football coaches demanding honesty and accountability from everybody except themselves? At Lincoln Riley’s introductory press conference at USC, he said he only found out about USC’s interest after his Oklahoma team finished its season Saturday night. Then, magically, he and his agent hammered out all the details of his contract. Riley told such a blatant lie that USC fans should actually be relieved it’s a lie. Do you really want a coach who barely gave any thought to whether he wanted to be there?

Riley’s move dominated the news cycle until Kelly usurped it. His move to LSU is defensible for both the coach and the school. But then came the stories: of assistants recruiting only to discover that the boss had left and athletic director Jack Swarbrick saying Kelly had never discussed interest from other universities with him. Kelly is a terrific football coach. But he is 60 years old and still hasn’t learned the decency of an honest goodbye.
 

Irish2155

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Saw a Michigan guy on Twitter claiming the "asshole" comment was made by Freeman. Any confirmation on that? If true, seems like that would cut toward Freeman not following BK.

https://twitter.com/Matt_Fortuna/status/1465499247357345794?s=20

Don’t know if true or not but Freeman does strike me as one who doesn’t take kindly to looking like an ass hole toward anyone without good reason, especially when welcomed inside a recruits home in front of their parents.
 

RDU Irish

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That's fine if you just want to be in the discussion. If you want to compete for championships, for real, not in the "compete for championships" way that ND has done it under Kelly, where everyone knows you don't have the horses, then you need every tool at your disposal.

Not having private transportation to recruit is a massive problem by itself, considering MAC schools even do that. You have guys landing on high school campuses in private, university-branded helicopters. Then you have Freeman taking the red eye from some bumblefuck airport but getting delayed on his connecting flight. Which means more time away from his family and job.

Facilities matter for player development which is why it matters to recruits. Better facilities mean easier lives for players outside of the classroom; more time for development; better access to recovery and nutrition; better equipment; more space.

What this all boils down to is ND coaches and players waste more time and energy, and endure more stress, than the competitors do.

The private plane thing is insane - there is a business case to be made, not just convenience or luxury. Particularly when COVID decimates regular airline schedules. If you are paying your OC/DC $2.5M/year - assuming they work 12 hours a day, 350 days per year that is $625/hour - their time is money. Saving them countless hours of travel time is not just layovers and such. Plopping down in remote airports a couple minute drive from the target versus 3-4 hour drive from the airport not only adds up but maximizes their limited recruiting windows to cram maximum visits in to that window. For a national footprint like ours - it is derelict to NOT have a plane. If you are really a family focused institution, you would value having those coaches home with their families too.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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It strikes me as unlikley that Freeman would open up to Fortuna like that. It's probably somebody whose been with ND a little longer (and isn't particularly close to Kelly) like Alexander, Taylor, or Mickens.
 

NDPhilly

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I think it's a combination of factors that add up to, "ND makes it much harder to win than other places." It's taken multiple coaches decades to drag the admin kicking and screaming into the 21st century regarding our facilities and competitive pay. And even now, there's a lot of stuff they ought to have access to, but ND just refuses to provide due to some inscrutable principle.

So if I'm Kelly, and my requests for reasonable accommodations have been denied year after year, and another program comes along, offers to double my salary and give me anything else I ask for... I get why he'd leave. Our admin sounds like a nightmare to work for.

Yup - compare this to Texas A&M which has spent their way into being one of the nations top programs from a facilities, coaching staff, and recruiting perspective. They go above and beyond.
 

Whiskeyjack

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The private plane thing is insane - there is a business case to be made, not just convenience or luxury. Particularly when COVID decimates regular airline schedules. If you are paying your OC/DC $2.5M/year - assuming they work 12 hours a day, 350 days per year that is $625/hour - their time is money. Saving them countless hours of travel time is not just layovers and such. Plopping down in remote airports a couple minute drive from the target versus 3-4 hour drive from the airport not only adds up but maximizes their limited recruiting windows to cram maximum visits in to that window. For a national footprint like ours - it is derelict to NOT have a plane. If you are really a family focused institution, you would value having those coaches home with their families too.

You're analyzing this (rightly) as if NDFB is an independent subsidiary business within the UND system. But the University has members of the BoT and BoF that grandstand with complaints about our coaches being paid so much more than the professors, as if NDFB is just another department co-equal with the College of Arts and Letters. And then others wring their hands about the "worldliness" of it all, wondering if we'd be better off competing in something like the Ivy League instead. These are fatuous arguments, but that's the environment in which our program has to fight for dollars and cents.
 

Rogue219

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FWIW I know Brady Quinn and some other media peeps said facility upgrades were a sticking point for Kelly leaving, but among recent and current players that seems to be a non-factor for many. Most realize there are programs with a few more amenities, but at the end of the day they asked, "What more do we really need? What needs to be done?" There were some small things they would have liked to have, but they're not living in the Dark Ages.

I think Eli said something similar when it came to current recruits. If you're coming to ND it's likely for the culture, the academics, etc. Facilities are least of your concerns. He said most of them were committed to the school, not the coach, which was good to hear.

I am with you here. I fail to understand why players need to have video games in their lockers and all that. At the end of the day, have modern equipment and services available to your players. Otherwise Texas A&M can have nuclear powered surfboards in green, purple and blue but they'll still finish 8-4.
 

SaltyND24

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As mentioned, most of the current and former players on the discussion last night seemed surprised by the facilities argument. There were a few little things they would have liked to have, but they were all asking each other, "What are we really lacking?" They made it seem like it was a factor for coaches maybe, but not them. For instance they said something like having turf down in the area for lineman walkthroughs or something...it was something they would have liked to have, but wasn't a big deal. It's not a serious problem. Should we do it? Absolutely, but the general feeling was facilities aren't bad at all.

I think they also said that there were upgrades that were discussed YEARS ago that never came to fruition or did so only recently. These didn't make or break the decisions of the guys that decided to come here, but it would be foolish to think we are among the top programs from that perspective. I get that substance should far outweigh style. Still, given the apparent hurdles to field championship-level teams here at ND, the perceived lack of investment into the football program would make it difficult to get the "slam dunk" guys that always get mentioned when a vacancy as big as ours opens up.
 

Free Manera

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I am with you here. I fail to understand why players need to have video games in their lockers and all that. At the end of the day, have modern equipment and services available to your players. Otherwise Texas A&M can have nuclear powered surfboards in green, purple and blue but they'll still finish 8-4.

It’s not about Playstations. It’s about things that literally make you better. Like recovery rooms from this century and space to move around which is also apparently at a premium in the Gug.
 

NorthDakota

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The private plane thing is insane - there is a business case to be made, not just convenience or luxury. Particularly when COVID decimates regular airline schedules. If you are paying your OC/DC $2.5M/year - assuming they work 12 hours a day, 350 days per year that is $625/hour - their time is money. Saving them countless hours of travel time is not just layovers and such. Plopping down in remote airports a couple minute drive from the target versus 3-4 hour drive from the airport not only adds up but maximizes their limited recruiting windows to cram maximum visits in to that window. For a national footprint like ours - it is derelict to NOT have a plane. If you are really a family focused institution, you would value having those coaches home with their families too.

When NDSU's coach got poached by Wyoming in 2013, they straight up gave him a plane (he's got a pilot license).

seemed wild at the time but seemed perfectly normal now.
 

ACamp1900

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I feel like Brad Pitt and the end of Seven,… “Who’s on the plane!!!!”
 

ulukinatme

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I think they also said that there were upgrades that were discussed YEARS ago that never came to fruition or did so only recently. These didn't make or break the decisions of the guys that decided to come here, but it would be foolish to think we are among the top programs from that perspective. I get that substance should far outweigh style. Still, given the apparent hurdles to field championship-level teams here at ND, the perceived lack of investment into the football program would make it difficult to get the "slam dunk" guys that always get mentioned when a vacancy as big as ours opens up.

I'm with you, I think we should get the little things we're missing to make sure we have every advantage. At the end of the day though it's a non-factor among current and recent former players though, so it's not a "serious problem" as others have said. I'd look at other tangible ways we're holding the team back if we're serious about winning.
 

RDU Irish

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You're analyzing this (rightly) as if NDFB is an independent subsidiary business within the UND system. But the University has members of the BoT and BoF that grandstand with complaints about our coaches being paid so much more than the professors, as if NDFB is just another department co-equal with the College of Arts and Letters. And then others wring their hands about the "worldliness" of it all, wondering if we'd be better off competing in something like the Ivy League instead. These are fatuous arguments, but that's the environment in which our program has to fight for dollars and cents.

Isn't there a NetJets founder on the BoT? It is damn near literally staring a gift horse in the mouth.

Professors can lick rocks. Shouldn't tolerate socialists at any University with a top tier business school. I don't see football coaches taking 6 month sabbaticals or having tenure - they picked their lot and it isn't exactly pauper city.
 

ulukinatme

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That is a total smokescreen by BK - he is tired of playing school.

Truth. He's seen subpar coaches like Orgeron and Les Miles get titles at LSU. These are guys he outcoached in bowls or otherwise. He sees an easier path to a title.
 

ARALOU

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I saw somewhere that Kelly's (probably private) plane is landing at 3:10 and there is a live feed.
 
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