Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Circa]

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l2YWGfpVtxBSFYaxG" width="480" height="204" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/quentin-tarantino-pulp-fiction-samuel-l-jackson-l2YWGfpVtxBSFYaxG">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[ndgoldendomer]

The expectations for a title every year are unrealistic. You might get hot one year and catch a couple breaks but it's not going to happen on a regular basis. 3 ten win seasons makes me very happy and recruiting looks good too. I would say Kelly has things well in hand.

 

[Circa]

The expectations for a title every year are unrealistic. You might get hot one year and catch a couple breaks but it's not going to happen on a regular basis. 3 ten win seasons makes me very happy and recruiting looks good too. I would say Kelly has things well in hand.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/Omz06Mx4ZcQVO" width="480" height="329" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/pulp-fiction-film-Omz06Mx4ZcQVO">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[gkIrish]

The expectations for a title every year are unrealistic. You might get hot one year and catch a couple breaks but it's not going to happen on a regular basis. 3 ten win seasons makes me very happy and recruiting looks good too. I would say Kelly has things well in hand.

No one expects to win a title every year.

 

[Irish#1]

Oh I see the point. But wheres that got us? 10 wins over 3 years would be impressive if the the usual studs on our schedule were good. USC and Stanford have a downard trajectory and the only good teams on our schedule we lost to, one embarassingly.


This is the atitude that is completely wrong. In 9 years of Kelly we still can't compete for a National Championship. That is the stated and only goal of this football team. The grass isn't always greener, but sometimes it is better. Just have to take the chance. We know what Kelly is doing for us. 10 wins seems to be everyones goal here and be happy with it. I'd rather average 10 wins in the vein of 8-4 9-3 10-2 11-1 12-0 and be in the playoffs 2 out of 5 years and atleast be competitive and not get our doors blown off. Kelly is not that guy..

First, why is it ND's problem that USC and Stanford are down this year? Every season, there are teams on the schedule that are better or worse than projected. That can't be held against BK. Most CFB coaches wouldn't want our schedule.

To the second bolded point.....We are competing for a NC. We did it in 2012 and last year. We may not like the results, but we were there. One could also argue that being a consistent 10-11 game winner every year puts you in a better position to win a NC than a team that throws an 8-4 and 9-3 record into the mix.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Oh I see the point. But wheres that got us? 10 wins over 3 years would be impressive if the the usual studs on our schedule were good. USC and Stanford have a downard trajectory and the only good teams on our schedule we lost to, one embarassingly.



This is the atitude that is completely wrong. In 9 years of Kelly we still can't compete for a National Championship. That is the stated and only goal of this football team. The grass isn't always greener, but sometimes it is better. Just have to take the chance. We know what Kelly is doing for us. 10 wins seems to be everyones goal here and be happy with it. I'd rather average 10 wins in the vein of 8-4 9-3 10-2 11-1 12-0 and be in the playoffs 2 out of 5 years and atleast be competitive and not get our doors blown off. Kelly is not that guy.



I don't know if any coach, including Meyer, can win a National Championship at ND. But I do know that Kelly isn't. So I'll take a flier on a younger coach and not some retread coach.

A young, relatively inexperienced coach wouldnt make it at ND. Too much pressure from too many directions. Sure, you would get shiny and new but much like the Minn coach, it would break after testing. That Minn coach played an EXTREMELY weak schedule and came in WAAAAY under the radar vs PSU. It clearly showed PSU didnt prepare or take them seriously. When they played the next team with a pulse, they got rolled. That is what happens when you go from being a shadow to being in the light when you are a paper tiger.

Folks, if you are rolling behind ND because you are hawking that NC, then you are going to be really, really disappointed for a very long time. The probability of ND winning a NC is about as low as seeing a white crow. ND isnt built to win NCs. Not because ND cant win games or doesnt have a good coach. ND isnt built to win NCs because of the academic requirements, the craptastic weather and women and basically being a debbie downer for any kid that isnt academic minded. Which means most athletes today. Sad but true. Sorry.

Doesnt mean you cant have a good time being a ND fan. Heck, three years of 10 win seasons is huge. Very few teams do that. And the ones that do, they play cupcake schedules. They arent playing the worldbeaters or if they are, it is one worldbeater and a D2 team plus a week off before they play that worldbeater.

So if a NC is your measuring stick, probably need to support a new team that doesnt have ND mission statement. If you want to cheer for a solid team supported by a university with morals and character, then ND is your team.

#dropthemike

 

[beryirish]

No one expects to win a title every year.

 

[GowerND11]

No one expects to win a title every year.

Clearly you never dominated NCAA Football

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

What do we need to keep revisiting? Kelly isn't going anywhere unless he wants to.

 

[IrishLion]

What do we need to keep revisiting? Kelly isn't going anywhere unless he wants to.

This.

Three 10-win seasons in a row? The only programs that would willingly move on from that for a lack of titles would be Bama and Ohio State.

BK is here for as long as he wants to be, as long as he avoids another losing season. If he were to go 6-6 or worse for any reason, I think he'd leave on his own at that point anyway.

 

[gkIrish]

This.

Three 10-win seasons in a row? The only programs that would willingly move on from that for a lack of titles would be Bama and Ohio State.

BK is here for as long as he wants to be, as long as he avoids another losing season. If he were to go 6-6 or worse for any reason, I think he'd leave on his own at that point anyway.

Georgia won 9, 11, 8, 9, and 9 (before bowls--10, 12, 8, 10, 10 with) and moved on from Richt. Certainly comparable.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Georgia won 9, 11, 8, 9, and 9 (before bowls--10, 12, 8, 10, 10 with) and moved on from Richt. Certainly comparable.

True, but Georgia also was a lot more consistent and saw a lot more success during the 15 year period before Richt's tenure began. Kelly had a much deeper hole to dig out of.

Let's run with the analogy though. If there's a candidate out there with Smart's resume that's willing and able to step in after Kelly leaves, I'm all for it. But who that guy might be for ND isn't readily apparent (and I'm 99% certain it's not Fleck). So where does that leave this interminable conversation?

 

[ickythump1225]

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/B1wcqcc4zEUvK" width="480" height="204" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/pulp-fiction-christopher-walken-ving-rhames-B1wcqcc4zEUvK">via GIPHY</a></p>

SURE IT IS!

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/xUA7bebzsiDP5Jmati" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/miramax-quentin-tarantino-pulp-fiction-xUA7bebzsiDP5Jmati">via GIPHY</a></p>

Okay well weird tangentially related gifs aside it was the best division in CFB this year. I defy you to name a better one. 5 bowl eligible teams. I swear people on this site overcompensate for the excessive love the SEC can get by turning around and doing the exact opposite which is also dumb.

 

[Old Man Mike]

... two kinds of people: generally irritated people who get energy from griping and shouting out criticism (primal scream therapy is a well known successful temporary treatment for angry or depressive personalities), and the people that are generally upbeat of whom the first group makes like themselves (at least for a few moments until the second group stops listening.)

So, in the spirit of collegiality and brotherhood, IE offers this eternal thread as a service to the first and an opportunity for Christian charity for the second. Everybody wins. (whoops --- that latter outlook is second group bias.)

 

[ickythump1225]

No one expects to win a title every year.

Yes but this is a long cherished trope to trot out against those who are not satisfied with getting blown out by Michigan and an invite to the Camping World Bowl fresh off of getting jail sexed by an elite program in the CFP last year. I don't expect to win a title every year or even make the CFP every year, but I mean is it so much to ask that we not be made to look like a JV program when do go? It's damn near criminal how unprepared BK has his teams for big bowl games.

 

[ickythump1225]

... two kinds of people: generally irritated people who get energy from griping and shouting out criticism (primal scream therapy is a well known successful temporary treatment for angry or depressive personalities), and the people that are generally upbeat of whom the first group makes like themselves (at least for a few moments until the second group stops listening.)

So, in the spirit of collegiality and brotherhood, IE offers this eternal thread as a service to the first and an opportunity for Christian charity for the second. Everybody wins. (whoops --- that latter outlook is second group bias.)

Also some people are just homers and I have a feeling it really wouldn't matter what our record is this year be it 6-6 or 7-5 you'd still find a way to sunshine pump for COACH.

 

[IrishLion]

The whole idea of replacing BK to 'get over the hump' comes down to two simple risks, and you have to decide which is more easily managed:

1. Fire BK, and hope the next guy is a sure-thing as a recruiter, developer, and CEO [or playcaller if he's a true offensive/defensive specialist]. And you have to account for the fact that you're not getting Urban, Saban or Dabo...

2. Keep BK, and hope the '20 class pans out, and that the '21 class both stays together and pans out, and that OL and DL depth are well-maintained... and keep Clark Lea.


Both courses of action have many moving parts, flaws, and unanswerable questions, but one has wayyyyyy more risk and unknowns attached, IMO.

I think there is way less risk and more reliable data that says keeping BK and staying on the current trajectory is a really strong way of approaching the national title chase. whereas hiring a new guy is totally unpredictable.

 

[stlnd01]

Both courses of action have many moving parts, flaws, and unanswerable questions, but one has wayyyyyy more risk and unknowns attached, IMO.

I think there is way less risk and more reliable data that says keeping BK and staying on the current trajectory is a really strong way at approaching the national title chase. whereas hiring a new guy is totally unpredictable.

This is where I’m at.

I feel like we are basically where Georgia was at when they moved Mark Richt along and hired Kirby Smart. And that had worked out... pretty well? I guess? About as well as you could hope for anyway. But Georgia hasn’t won a title, and probably won’t this year, and I think you could argue that job is significantly easier and perhaps more attractive than ours.

So I’m not sure the upside of someone new (who?) is worth the downside risk of dumping Kelly at this point. Not right now anyway.

 

[NDohio]

This is where I’m at.

I feel like we are basically where Georgia was at when they moved Mark Richt along and hired Kirby Smart. And that had worked out... pretty well? I guess? About as well as you could hope for anyway. But Georgia hasn’t won a title, and probably won’t this year, and I think you could argue that job is significantly easier and perhaps more attractive than ours.

So I’m not sure the upside of someone new (who?) is worth the downside risk of dumping Kelly at this point. Not right now anyway.

And the quarterback he let get away will (likely) lead his new team to the title...man that would suck as a Georgia fan...

 

[PraetorianND]

The whole idea of replacing BK to 'get over the hump' comes down to two simple risks, and you have to decide which is more easily managed:

1. Fire BK, and hope the next guy is a sure-thing as a recruiter, developer, and CEO [or playcaller if he's a true offensive/defensive specialist]. And you have to account for the fact that you're not getting Urban, Saban or Dabo...

2. Keep BK, and hope the '20 class pans out, and that the '21 class both stays together and pans out, and that OL and DL depth are well-maintained... and keep Clark Lea.


Both courses of action have many moving parts, flaws, and unanswerable questions, but one has wayyyyyy more risk and unknowns attached, IMO.

I think there is way less risk and more reliable data that says keeping BK and staying on the current trajectory is a really strong way at approaching the national title chase. whereas hiring a new guy is totally unpredictable.

Nice post.

I'm more interested in managing the downside risk, being consistent, and making a real push every few years for a Natty. I think BK can do that. I'd rather that than risk dumpster seasons.

 

[ThePiombino]

Guys, if we made the CFP with the 2018 roster just imagine what can be possible with the 2020 and 2021 classes. 2016 SUCKED, but we've been trending up ever since. So long as forward is the movement I think BK has earned the benefit of the doubt. If/when he stagnates or regresses (again), then it's worth a serious look elsewhere. Until then, enjoy the upward trajectory.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The whole idea of replacing BK to 'get over the hump' comes down to two simple risks, and you have to decide which is more easily managed:

1. Fire BK, and hope the next guy is a sure-thing as a recruiter, developer, and CEO [or playcaller if he's a true offensive/defensive specialist]. And you have to account for the fact that you're not getting Urban, Saban or Dabo...

2. Keep BK, and hope the '20 class pans out, and that the '21 class both stays together and pans out, and that OL and DL depth are well-maintained... and keep Clark Lea.


Both courses of action have many moving parts, flaws, and unanswerable questions, but one has wayyyyyy more risk and unknowns attached, IMO.

I think there is way less risk and more reliable data that says keeping BK and staying on the current trajectory is a really strong way at approaching the national title chase. whereas hiring a new guy is totally unpredictable.

ND desperately needed a BK who can build a program from the ground up. Davie was obsolete the day he got the job as college football was in the process of moving on in a number of ways; Willingham was a guy who experienced moderate success at Stanford and never really saw the top of CFB; Weis had his strengths but his complete lack of college experience in developing players was obvious.

I think BK's expertise has modernized the program in myriad ways and so his eventual successor need not share these sorts of abilities. Day and Riley hit the ground running for the same reasons. They just needed to keep things going, from a program building standpoint, and delivered some enthusiasm along with their schematic abilities.

 

[Dizzyphil]

ND desperately needed a BK who can build a program from the ground up. Davie was obsolete the day he got the job as college football was in the process of moving on in a number of ways; Willingham was a guy who experienced moderate success at Stanford and never really saw the top of CFB; Weis had his strengths but his complete lack of college experience in developing players was obvious.

I think BK's expertise has modernized the program in myriad ways and so his eventual successor need not share these sorts of abilities. Day and Riley hit the ground running for the same reasons. They just needed to keep things going, from a program building standpoint, and delivered some enthusiasm along with their schematic abilities.

I think the powers that be (at the time of hiring Davie) was the result of Wisky hiring Barry Alvarez and what he did there. I guess ND thought Davie could do the same thing moving from DC to HC... of course the results were WAY different.

 

[PraetorianND]

I would prefer an assistant take over when the time comes. That would mean that the program is healthy, we are developing both player and coaching talent, and we aren’t running from a failing leader. These hot coaches fail as often as they succeed, and it feels like when they fail the program gets set back 5 years.

 

[Cali_domer]

I would prefer an assistant take over when the time comes. That would mean that the program is healthy, we are developing both player and coaching talent, and we aren’t running from a failing leader. These hot coaches fail as often as they succeed, and it feels like when they fail the program gets set back 5 years.

Have you looked at Brian Kelly coaching shrub? Not exactly comforting .

 

[PraetorianND]

Have you looked at Brian Kelly coaching shrub? Not exactly comforting .

Yeah, that's true. I'm just saying I'd prefer that scenario in principle.

 

[PANDFAN]

BK has gotten ND to having a 10 win year as a floor recently which is EXACTLY what most fans have been hoping for , for years since Holtz....HOWEVER as much as he has made upgrades he needs to ELEVATE his game in preparation for the bigger games...i think we can all AGREE on this.....so BK still has some work to go, but ultimately he IS THE GUY for the job

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah, that's true. I'm just saying I'd prefer that scenario in principle.

I assumed you were referring to Clark Lea, which is a very reasonable position to take. I'd much rather promote him than take a flier on someone like Fleck. Rhule would be closer to a toss up, but even then, if hiring Rhule means losing Lea, I might still opt for promoting him.

 

[PraetorianND]

I assumed you were referring to Clark Lea, which is a very reasonable position to take. I'd much rather promote him than take a flier on someone like Fleck. Rhule would be closer to a toss up, but even then, if hiring Rhule means losing Lea, I might still opt for promoting him.

I wasn't referring to anyone specific actually. If Lea is the right guy for the job when the time comes, then that would be great. I'm more looking at Oklahoma and Ohio State. It feels like promotions mean that you aren't scrapping the regime and starting over, but building on something that is working. I'd like to think that what BK is doing is working and there wouldn't be a reason to burn it down and start over. Evolution instead of revolution.

 

[Rogue219]

I think if he continues to reach for new assistants when needing to hire any, things could work out within a few years.

I would like to see Jeff Quinn gone. He's old BK baggage. Apart from that, I have liked the recent hires he's made for his staff. Retaining Clark Lea was a huge deal as it turns out. If he had left with Elko, who knows what we'd be looking at right now.

Keep reauditing where you need to.