Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[NDRock]

Yes, because we banked a decade's worth of those losses in 2016.

Oh, we've had plenty. I just found it hard to believe there were only two teams that applied to in such a short span.

 

[Sea Turtle]

And we were promptly blown out by the first team we faced that was loaded with 5* players.

We will have to get incredibly lucky to win a championship with the recruiting disadvantages we self impose. We haven't shown the ability to beat a single one of these 5* big boy programs and we'd have to beat two in a row to win it all.

We will never win another one. The playoff was the worst thing to happen for us. No more 2012 possibility of drawing a Kansas State. Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson will be waiting.

We know what that looks like.

 

[irishandy]

I’m super happy BK is our coach. I’m also super happy our fans don’t make the coaching decisions around here. Insanity.

I too am glad that BK is our coach, he has my support...we also have need to go after every 5* because they all are going to choose ND.

 

[Luckylucci]

FWIW, Bama hasn’t beat a single top 25 team, lol. Like what? How’s that work?

And I’m not trying to say we’re better but it’s insane the level of clout they get for doing nothing. Literally nothing. They beat bad teams, high five!

 

[Dizzyphil]

FWIW, Bama hasn’t beat a single top 25 team, lol. Like what? How’s that work?

And I’m not trying to say we’re better but it’s insane the level of clout they get for doing nothing. Literally nothing. They beat bad teams, high five!

No offense but,




See years 2009, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2017

 

[irishff1014]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Only teams to have 10+ wins the last 3 years. <br><br>Notre Dame ☘️<br>Oklahoma<br>Alabama <br>Georgia<br>Ohio State<br>Clemson<br><br>But hey, keep telling yourselves Brian Kelly is running a mediocre program...</p>— Nolan Gentry (@nolangentry34) <a href="https://twitter.com/nolangentry34/status/1201189005632643073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

No offense but,




See years 2009, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2017

Oh I get it but that’s the problem. It’s this group think that past performance should give them an advantage in future rankings.

They just gave up 48 to Auburn. It wasn’t Tua being out, they just got absolutely toasted. Now I wouldn’t want to play them but they should play by the same rules that everyone else does. Gotta win games against good teams every year.

 

[ThePiombino]

Oh I get it but that&#146;s the problem. It&#146;s this group think that past performance should give them an advantage in future rankings.



They just gave up 48 to Auburn. It wasn&#146;t Tua being out, they just got absolutely toasted. Now I wouldn&#146;t want to play them but they should play by the same rules that everyone else does. Gotta win games against good teams every year.

So long as SEC bias exists (i.e. SOS being a self-fulfilling prophecy), the likes of Bama will always get the benefit of the doubt. But the real crime is other SEC teams getting the benefit of doubt based on Bama's body of work over the past decade.

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[ickythump1225]

Especially when ND is now scheduling for 10 wins. New Mexico and Bowling Green? In our victories ND was on average 17 point favorite so that is not shocking we won.

Bro, I'm totally fine with that. You have to schedule to win. NM and BG might suck but they're not FCS level and you can't pack your schedule with mid level Power 5 teams and harder and expect to get to NY6/CFP on a regular basis. Scheduling to win is how the SEC has dominated the landscape over the past 15 years.

 

[ickythump1225]

So long as SEC bias exists (i.e. SOS being a self-fulfilling prophecy), the likes of Bama will always get the benefit of the doubt. But the real crime is other SEC teams getting the benefit of doubt based on Bama's body of work over the past decade.

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Yeah but man this year the SECw is literally as good as people have made it out to be the past decade. The 4th best team in that division is A&M and they are not a walk over.

 

[NDRock]

Bro, I'm totally fine with that. You have to schedule to win. NM and BG might suck but they're not FCS level and you can't pack your schedule with mid level Power 5 teams and harder and expect to get to NY6/CFP on a regular basis. Scheduling to win is how the SEC has dominated the landscape over the past 15 years.

Agree. What I’ve realized is you get no credit for beating teams at the tail end of the top 25. Nobody cares that we beat the #22, 23, and 24 ranked teams. They care that we lost to Georgia and Michigan. I’m all for having some cupcakes as long as we keep scheduling a Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma, etc...

 

[phork]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Only teams to have 10+ wins the last 3 years. <br><br>Notre Dame ☘️<br>Oklahoma<br>Alabama <br>Georgia<br>Ohio State<br>Clemson<br><br>But hey, keep telling yourselves Brian Kelly is running a mediocre program...</p>— Nolan Gentry (@nolangentry34) <a href="https://twitter.com/nolangentry34/status/1201189005632643073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Right. Because 10 wins is proof of excellence against the down turned opponents we've played. 10 wins don't matter this year because Michigan curb stomped us. I would have been happy with a small loss but ND got beat down beyond recognition. In year 10 or whatever its unacceptable.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Right. Because 10 wins is proof of excellence against the down turned opponents we've played. 10 wins don't matter this year because Michigan curb stomped us. I would have been happy with a small loss but ND got beat down beyond recognition. In year 10 or whatever its unacceptable.

C'mon, phork. The Michigan loss sucked (especially for you, I'd imagine), but it doesn't cancel out the accomplishment of winning 10+ games in 3 consecutive years (and 4 of the last 5!) There are many teams who played far easier schedules, and many others with comparable talent on roster to ours, who couldn't manage to do that.

 

[ACamp1900]

C'mon, phork. The Michigan loss sucked (especially for you, I'd imagine), but it doesn't cancel out the accomplishment of winning 10+ games in 3 consecutive years (and 4 of the last 5!) There are many teams who played far easier schedules, and many others with comparable talent on roster to ours, who couldn't manage to do that.

I'm not sure I agree with Phork, but I'm not sure I sure don't either. I was pissed when we put them back on the schedule and it was the worst possible scenario that made me so upset, and that scenario is exactly what happened. I'm not sure this base can live that collectively down any time soon,... nor should they.

 

[ACamp1900]

Don't mind me too much though... this recent Angels trade just sent me from 'discontented' with my sports teams to 'fucking fed up'... so I'm prob not in the best state of mind at the moment.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm not sure I agree with Phork, but I'm not sure I sure don't either. I was pissed when we put them back on the schedule and it was the worst possible scenario that made me so upset, and that scenario is exactly what happened. I'm not sure this base can live that collectively down any time soon,... nor should they.

It was revenge for the 2014 game. I'd say we're even.

 

[ACamp1900]

It was revenge for the 2014 game. I'd say we're even.

Why give them the chance?? Now they have the trump card... so calling it even isn't accurate. I want to get whoever is ultimately responsible for okaying that and shit on their doorstep.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why give them the chance?? Now they have the trump card... so calling it even isn't accurate. I want to get whoever is ultimately responsible for okaying that and shit on their doorstep.

The 2014 game was supposed to be "the end of the series" as well, but then we ended up playing them the last two years. There's too much history between our programs to let the series go dormant for long. We'll get another shot at them soon.

 

[NorthDakota]

The 2014 game was supposed to be "the end of the series" as well, but then we ended up playing them the last two years. There's too much history between our programs to let the series go dormant for long. We'll get another shot at them soon.

Texas and TAMU would like a word with you

 

[ACamp1900]

The 2014 game was supposed to be "the end of the series" .

period

 

[Ndaccountant]

C'mon, phork. The Michigan loss sucked (especially for you, I'd imagine), but it doesn't cancel out the accomplishment of winning 10+ games in 3 consecutive years (and 4 of the last 5!) There are many teams who played far easier schedules, and many others with comparable talent on roster to ours, who couldn't manage to do that.

I don't think we should minimize it, but I don't think we should blow it out of proportion either. Every elite team played during that time period resulted in a loss. (Clemson X2, Ohio State, Georgia X2). Every game against a very good team on the on the road was a loss (Stanford 2015, Michigan 2019). We were a mixed bag against good teams on the road or very good teams at home (blowout @ Miami, crushed USC in 2017, meltdown at Stanford in 2017, NC State 2017 win was good, LSU bowl game, Michigan 2018). Plus, the 4th year in the last 5 was historically awful.

But when push comes to shove, for me at least, there is not one victory since Oklahoma in 2012 that I can point to and call it a game where ND had a defining win that made the rest of the CFB take notice. The closest I can get is Michigan in 2018, but even then, I think we know that Michigan is clearly a few notches below elite. USC 2017 maybe? But even then, Clay Helton.

So, yes, 10 wins is great. But when looking at what teams we beat to get the 10 wins, I am personally not celebrating it to the same degree as others. Don't get me wrong, it's clearly head and shoulders better than anything since Holtz. But as I wrote in a different thread, the 10 wins for BK are not even close to the 10 win seasons Holtz had. Back then, ND played a much more difficult schedule and Holtz won vs elite competition.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think we should minimize it, but I don't think we should blow it out of proportion either. Every elite team played during that time period resulted in a loss. (Clemson X2, Ohio State, Georgia X2). Every game against a very good team on the on the road was a loss (Stanford 2015, Michigan 2019). We were a mixed bag against good teams on the road or very good teams at home (blowout @ Miami, crushed USC in 2017, meltdown at Stanford in 2017, NC State 2017 win was good, LSU bowl game, Michigan 2018). Plus, the 4th year in the last 5 was historically awful.

But when push comes to shove, for me at least, there is not one victory since Oklahoma in 2012 that I can point to and call it a game where ND had a defining win that made the rest of the CFB take notice. The closest I can get is Michigan in 2018, but even then, I think we know that Michigan is clearly a few notches below elite. USC 2017 maybe? But even then, Clay Helton.

So, yes, 10 wins is great. But when looking at what teams we beat to get the 10 wins, I am personally not celebrating it to the same degree as others. Don't get me wrong, it's clearly head and shoulders better than anything since Holtz. But as I wrote in a different thread, the 10 wins for BK are not even close to the 10 win seasons Holtz had. Back then, ND played a much more difficult schedule and Holtz won vs elite competition.

This is a species of the "title or bust" sentiment. Nothing you said is wrong, but it's not somehow a betrayal of ND's storied past to be happy with accomplishments that fall short of the summit. I'm not suggesting that anyone be content with winning 10+ games and still getting blown out by elite competition, as if that's our inevitable new ceiling, but we now live in the bottom half of the top-10, which is a position most other teams (including some with traditions to rival ours) would kill for.

We've come a long way since Weis' nadir in 2007, and life is too short to always be focused on what you don't have. As Bill Connelly put in our season preview, we clearly haven't returned to the elite yet, but we've got a good argument for being "the best of the rest." That genuinely makes me happy, and it should make you happy too.

 

[ThePiombino]

Right. Because 10 wins is proof of excellence against the down turned opponents we've played. 10 wins don't matter this year because Michigan curb stomped us. I would have been happy with a small loss but ND got beat down beyond recognition. In year 10 or whatever its unacceptable.

You're missing the point. Only six teams out of ~130 have managed to win 10 games the past three seasons. That includes all the teams that perpetually schedule cupcakes. Only six teams! That's like ~top 5%. How can you not acknowledge that that is significant? Obviously there's room for improvement, but it doesn't mean that what has been accomplished isn't impressive.

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[mgriff]

We are a consistent ten win team and with the recruiting it appears that can be a maintainable standard. I remember when we would've killed for that. I want a title too, and I've gotten pissed over the last few years at the blowouts, but Kelly has been amazing. The grass is not always greener. Be grateful for what we have now. Most of my life has been far more embarrassing as an ND fan.

 

[Ndaccountant]

This is a species of the "title or bust" sentiment. Nothing you said is wrong, but it's not somehow a betrayal of ND's storied past to be happy with accomplishments that fall short of the summit. I'm not suggesting that anyone be content with winning 10+ games and still getting blown out by elite competition, as if that's our inevitable new ceiling, but we now live in the bottom half of the top-10, which is a position most other teams (including some with traditions to rival ours) would kill for.

We've come a long way since Weis' nadir in 2007, and life is too short to always be focused on what you don't have. As Bill Connelly put in our season preview, we clearly haven't returned to the elite yet, but we've got a good argument for being "the best of the rest." That genuinely makes me happy, and it should make you happy too.

I guess for me, the goal is national championship 1st, continuous improvement 2nd. We both know there is still a sizable gap between ND and a championship. I know we are getting better offensive play makers in recruiting, but I feel like we still have sizable recruiting gaps (CB being the most obvious). I guess I am at a point where I am not sure we are going to see continuous improvement in the results. I am really happy to kick Shaw's ass. But I am just not sure Kelly can take us to the next step. So, while I am happy to be here, it's frustrating to feel trapped in a bottom of the top 10. Sure, could be worse, could be TW or Boob or Chunky.

Honestly, you take what I wrote above and apply it to all aspects of my life. If I am not getting better at something (family life, professional life, etc), I get antsy.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I guess for me, the goal is national championship 1st, continuous improvement 2nd. We both know there is still a sizable gap between ND and a championship. I know we are getting better offensive play makers in recruiting, but I feel like we still have sizable recruiting gaps (CB being the most obvious). I guess I am at a point where I am not sure we are going to see continuous improvement in the results. I am really happy to kick Shaw's ass. But I am just not sure Kelly can take us to the next step. So, while I am happy to be here, it's frustrating to feel trapped. Sure, could be worse.

That's where I think you're wrong. We're one of only 6 teams nationally to win 10+ games in the last 3 years. That's real, significant and tangible progress. The program is undoubtedly stronger now than at any other point in the last 25 years, and we can expect things to keep getting better (at least in the short term). No, we're not ready yet to beat OSU and Clemson in back-to-back games to win another title, but for the first time since I've become a fan, we have a realistic path to getting there that doesn't involve blowing up the coaching staff and taking a flier on some overrated young coach.

Honestly, you take what I wrote above and apply it to all aspects of my life. If I am not getting better at something (family life, professional life, etc), I get antsy.

That can be a useful trait, but you need some perspective lest you be perpetually miserable. Constantly striving to be better is good, but you have to stop and be grateful for what you have on a regular basis.

 

[NDBoiler]

I guess for me, the goal is national championship 1st, continuous improvement 2nd. We both know there is still a sizable gap between ND and a championship. I know we are getting better offensive play makers in recruiting, but I feel like we still have sizable recruiting gaps (CB being the most obvious). I guess I am at a point where I am not sure we are going to see continuous improvement in the results. I am really happy to kick Shaw's ass. But I am just not sure Kelly can take us to the next step. So, while I am happy to be here, it's frustrating to feel trapped in a bottom of the top 10. Sure, could be worse, could be TW or Boob or Chunky.

Honestly, you take what I wrote above and apply it to all aspects of my life. If I am not getting better at something (family life, professional life, etc), I get antsy.

Start working on improving your humility, buddy...

 

[phork]

You're missing the point. Only six teams out of ~130 have managed to win 10 games the past three seasons. That includes all the teams that perpetually schedule cupcakes. Only six teams! That's like ~top 5%. How can you not acknowledge that that is significant? Obviously there's room for improvement, but it doesn't mean that what has been accomplished isn't impressive.

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Oh I see the point. But wheres that got us? 10 wins over 3 years would be impressive if the the usual studs on our schedule were good. USC and Stanford have a downard trajectory and the only good teams on our schedule we lost to, one embarassingly.

We are a consistent ten win team and with the recruiting it appears that can be a maintainable standard. I remember when we would've killed for that. I want a title too, and I've gotten pissed over the last few years at the blowouts, but Kelly has been amazing. The grass is not always greener. Be grateful for what we have now. Most of my life has been far more embarrassing as an ND fan.

This is the atitude that is completely wrong. In 9 years of Kelly we still can't compete for a National Championship. That is the stated and only goal of this football team. The grass isn't always greener, but sometimes it is better. Just have to take the chance. We know what Kelly is doing for us. 10 wins seems to be everyones goal here and be happy with it. I'd rather average 10 wins in the vein of 8-4 9-3 10-2 11-1 12-0 and be in the playoffs 2 out of 5 years and atleast be competitive and not get our doors blown off. Kelly is not that guy.

That's where I think you're wrong. We're one of only 6 teams nationally to win 10+ games in the last 3 years. That's real, significant and tangible progress. The program is undoubtedly stronger now than at any other point in the last 25 years, and we can expect things to keep getting better (at least in the short term). No, we're not ready yet to beat OSU and Clemson in back-to-back games to win another title, but for the first time since I've become a fan, we have a realistic path to getting there that doesn't involve blowing up the coaching staff and taking a flier on some overrated young coach.

That can be a useful trait, but you need some perspective lest you be perpetually miserable. Constantly striving to be better is good, but you have to stop and be grateful for what you have on a regular basis.

I don't know if any coach, including Meyer, can win a National Championship at ND. But I do know that Kelly isn't. So I'll take a flier on a younger coach and not some retread coach.

 

[benneboy]

If you don't think Kelly is the best possible coach ND could land right now after what he's put together the last few years, you're pretty much the worst part of Notre Dame football.

 

[Circa]

Yeah but man this year the SECw is literally as good as people have made it out to be the past decade. The 4th best team in that division is A&M and they are not a walk over.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/B1wcqcc4zEUvK" width="480" height="204" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/pulp-fiction-christopher-walken-ving-rhames-B1wcqcc4zEUvK">via GIPHY</a></p>

SURE IT IS!

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