Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[dwshade]

BK and Bill Bellichec(sp?) are good friends. Josh McDaniels has been rumored possibly be moving to a HC position after this year. Any chance BK goes to the Pats as OC on a mutual parting of ways?

Zero

 

[Irish Insanity]

Zero

Sonofabitch

 

[stlnd01]

BK and Bill Bellichec(sp?) are good friends. Josh McDaniels has been rumored possibly be moving to a HC position after this year. Any chance BK goes to the Pats as OC on a mutual parting of ways?

No. Kelly is a college football coach. I think he realized that himself after his last dalliance with the Eagles. And unless he had assurances he'd succeed Belichick at the Patriots, there's no way he takes a coordinator job on Sundays.
If he left ND, which he will at some point, I could see him taking a year to do TV and decompress, then going to a slightly less intense but still high potential P5 program (UCLA, say, or North Carolina), and probably doing quite well.

 

[gkIrish]

I have to say I am shocked that BVG was fired today. I thought it would probably not happen until the end of the season.

I give BK a lot of respect for this, if he made the decision. So much respect that if we someone finished 8-4 I would be tempted to see what happens next year.

 

[IrishLax]

I have to say I am shocked that BVG was fired today. I thought it would probably not happen until the end of the season.

I give BK a lot of respect for this, if he made the decision. So much respect that if we someone finished 8-4 I would be tempted to see what happens next year.

If we go 8-4 it means we won two of Stanford, USC, Miami and won seven of eight... I'd give him a pass at that point. Hell, you could talk me into 7-5 with the right wins, but in general I think it's time to cut bait before Wimbush gets entirely wasted.

 

[stlnd01]

This is why it's obvious ND isn't willing to do everything in its power to be elite. Money should not be an issue. Facilities should not be an issue. Nutrition, S&C programs should not be an issue. ND should be at the forefront of the "legal and ethical" aspects of big-time football. I personally don't think they need to cheat or compromise to win, just need a total commitment.

I don't know. I feel like they're plenty committed on the money, facilities and off-field support stuff. And I agree they don't need to cheat, per se.

But I think the sport is at a point where being at the forefront of the "legal and ethical aspects," as you put it, is seen by many, including many big-time coaches, as a barrier. In other words, Notre Dame would need to compromise.

When you just can't recruit half the top 300 players in the country because you know they won't get in. When you routinely lose a chunk of the top recruits you do land to various academic or should-be-minor disciplinary issues. And when you're competing for talent and playing against a bunch of schools that don't have those issues. To say nothing of being a Catholic school in northern Indiana, etc. etc. That's an issue. And any coach who wants the easiest path to glory and riches is going to look at our situation versus, say, LSU and pick LSU four times out of five.

The trouble is that a lot of people affiliated with the university, myself - an alum - included, don't particularly want to compromise that much, to put us on a level with LSU even without "cheating." Notre Dame being Notre Dame makes Notre Dame a lot easier to root for. If we became just another football factory, I think a lot of the appeal of the place would gradually fall away. I think that's a choice the university continues to make, and if that means they don't have a "total commitment" to winning at football, so be it.

 

[NDgradstudent]

If we go 8-4 it means we won two of Stanford, USC, Miami and won seven of eight... I'd give him a pass at that point. Hell, you could talk me into 7-5 with the right wins, but in general I think it's time to cut bait before Wimbush gets entirely wasted.

I like BK, and he has done a good job, but it is clearly time to move on. Even so, I'd be lying if I said I weren't worried about ending up with Pat Fitzgerald, etc. We can't afford to blow another hire.

The survey is looking like the 2000 election night! Very exciting...

 

[Classic Irish]

Nonsense. You obviously missed Nick Saban last week chew Kiffin's ass out on the sideline and again after the game. Urban speaks his mind as well. Not an easy guy to work for.

Please provide the evidence where Saban threw Kiffin under the bus during a press conference. Not on the sidelines during the game (as Kelly frequently has done to BVG), but at a press conference. That was the original point being made. I look forward to seeing your evidence.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

If we go 8-4 it means we won two of Stanford, USC, Miami and won seven of eight... I'd give him a pass at that point. Hell, you could talk me into 7-5 with the right wins, but in general I think it's time to cut bait before Wimbush gets entirely wasted.

 

[dwshade]

Please provide the evidence where Saban threw Kiffin under the bus during a press conference. Not on the sidelines during the game (as Kelly frequently has done to BVG), but at a press conference. That was the original point being made. I look forward to seeing your evidence.

Who did Kelly throw under the bus? He held everyone accountable after the loss including himself. His statement on BVG's firing was as professional as could be. As to Saban I watched his post game conference after the WKU game and when asked about his argument with Kiffin on the sideline he made it clear there was no argument. He said it was an ass chewing for poor play calling at the end of the game.

 

[gkIrish]

If we go 8-4 it means we won two of Stanford, USC, Miami and won seven of eight... I'd give him a pass at that point. Hell, you could talk me into 7-5 with the right wins, but in general I think it's time to cut bait before Wimbush gets entirely wasted.

Yeah I'm not really serious about giving BK a pass but I just wanted to express how much this firing pleased me. I don't see BK being fired unless we go 5-7 though so probably all moot.

 

[irishfan]

Swarbrick knows best. If he thinks BK is the guy, he'll open up the checkbook for the right DC after 2016.

The team doesn't play loose. No clue if a staff shakeup can fix that or we need to clean house completely. I still think BK can win big here if he gets a DC like Aranda or gets Diaco back. If Swarbrick can't spend 1.5 million on a DC then it might be time to move on.

 

[Classic Irish]

Who did Kelly throw under the bus?

Nobody. One poster was criticizing Kelly for defending BVG and not calling him out in his press conferences. Another poster made the point (a point with which I agreed) that a HC was unlikely to publicly throw assistant coaches under the bus at a press conference. Neither poster was referring to scolding an assistant on the sidelines. In fact, Kelly has chewed out BVG several times on the sidelines this season.

 

[dwshade]

Nobody. One poster was criticizing Kelly for defending BVG and not calling him out in his press conferences. Another poster made the point (a point with which I agreed) that a HC was unlikely to publicly throw assistant coaches under the bus at a press conference. Neither poster was referring to scolding an assistant on the sidelines. In fact, Kelly has chewed out BVG several times on the sidelines this season.

I watched Saban's press conference on SEC network after the WKU game and when asked about the "argument" with Kiffin he made clear it wasn't an argument but rather an ass chewing for a poor play call at the end of the game that resulted in a turnover.

 

[Classic Irish]

I watched Saban's press conference on SEC network after the WKU game and when asked about the "argument" with Kiffin he made clear it wasn't an argument but rather an ass chewing for a poor play call at the end of the game that resulted in a turnover.

Didn't see that, but that is uncommon. It sounds like someone saw the sideline encounter and asked Saban about the incident. Folks here seem to have wanted Kelly to throw BVG under the bus for his overall incompetence. It's rare for a coach to publicly trash an assistant at a press conference for ineptitude.

 

[irishog77]

We aren't going to outbid Bama or OSU for Saban or Meyer anyway, but no, I don't think they would leave even if we could outbid their current employers. (I do think that our decision to supposedly lowball Meyer in 04 was not wise.) If top coaches really don't want to come here, we need to outbid the competition. For example, I think we could beat LSU in a bidding war for Herman. Does that mean he would come here? No. But at least we would have tried to make up for perceived disadvantages with a higher salary offer.

I think we'd all like to see and know ND is doing things like this to help ensure for the future of fielding winning teams.

But how is anybody going to know this happened? It's not like Herman is going to say, "I don't know if I'm taking the lsu or ND job yet. I'm waiting to see how high each school can go in their bidding for my services. So when the final, for real final, offers come in, then I'll decide." Conversely, it's not like ND is going to say, "Yeah, we wanted Herman as our next head coach, but we just lost out in the bidding." It will come down to more than just money.

Also, for the posters who have mentioned Swarbrick opening up the checkbook to get the coach the school wants/needs, it is not that simple. It's not like has a blank check to throw at somebody that he deems worthy of all that money. Swarbrick has actual monetary limitations and he doesn't run the athletic department without consent and blessings from his bosses.

 

[IrishLax]

I think we'd all like to see and know ND is doing things like this to help ensure for the future of fielding winning teams.

But how is anybody going to know this happened? It's not like Herman is going to say, "I don't know if I'm taking the lsu or ND job yet. I'm waiting to see how high each school can go in their bidding for my services. So when the final, for real final, offers come in, then I'll decide." Conversely, it's not like ND is going to say, "Yeah, we wanted Herman as our next head coach, but we just lost out in the bidding." It will come down to more than just money.

Also, for the posters who have mentioned Swarbrick opening up the checkbook to get the coach the school wants/needs, it is not that simple. It's not like has a blank check to throw at somebody that he deems worthy of all that money. Swarbrick has actual monetary limitations and he doesn't run the athletic department without consent and blessings from his bosses.

One point of note to add on... basically all major athletics expenditures are independently financed.

When Willingham was fired, the money was all privately raised from donors. When Weis was fired, that HUGE pot of money was also raised from donors. Kelly is neither of those guys. He just signed a massive extension. Can Swarbrick even go back to the well for the $20 million or whatever it would cost to get rid of Kelly?

Let's say he can. Could he then leverage those same donors for $6mil/year for an "elite" coach... because it's going to take $6mil/year to get someone like Herman here. I really wonder what his actual "budget" is for coaching salaries and how much has to be made up by the people writing the checks. The good news is that this group of donors has shown little patience for sucking over the years and was very quick to pull the trigger on the two previous guys as soon as it became clear they weren't going to get it done. I think Kelly absolutely gets one more year though because the logistics of replacing him this offseason seem daunting.

I'd be very interested to see what kind of "budget" Swarbrick actually gets from the school to pay for coaching salaries right now, and how much is currently picked up by athletic boosters. Are we getting any of that Fertitta money yet?

 

[Irishman77]

I stopped posting on gameday and let the weekend soak in before throwing my 2 cents in. All of us could go on and on but my simple summary is:

-Kelly now has a sense of urgency and showed a spec of emotion. This is either the beginning of the team doing the same and show some urgency and emotion , or he has completely lost them.

-The team shows no emotion because of his demeanor. I have said this for years and is the biggest problem. The approach to playing football from the coach to the players is a dumpster fire.

Transfers and decommits will be by the dozen but will make little difference. Kelly could have the Green Bay Packers roster and every game would be close.

I said something is wrong with kelly every tuesday after the press conference. I don't know what it is but he is at a fork in the road.

All the showtime , cameras , interviews and attention to these teenagers is spoiling them. They play like they got 4 super bowl rings and 100 million in the bank. Entitlement has been mentioned quite a bit and I agree. These kids need a wake up call or transfer.

If a elite coach wanted to come here and put up with this dumpster fire, Swarwick better listen, however I feel Kelly is here for awhile and 8-9 wins will follow.

Bottom line we go 6-6 at best. 10 transfers, 8 decommits, and 8-5 at best next year.

 

[BeauBenken]

80 to 80 in the poll. Never seen such a split decision in one of our polls...especially one that's had so many votes cast.

 

[gkIrish]

80 to 80 in the poll. Never seen such a split decision in one of our polls...especially one that's had so many votes cast.

Yeah it's crazy. Two things though:

1) Fire Kelly had a big lead (at least 20 votes) before BVG was canned yesterday.

2) I think way more people in the Keep Kelly camp are closer to changing their vote than the other way around.

But yeah, it's so interesting how divided we are on this.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Firing BVG made the difference to me.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm in the "Start Fresh" camp still.

It's year 7. At this point, there are no more excuses for short-comings in terms of the roster and the on-field product.

It's also clear that Kelly was purposely steering criticism away from the coaches to the media, because he knew he was about to go to town behind the scenes. Still don't like the extent to which he went in on his players, though.

I could switch my vote to "Keep Kelly" if the defense shows major improvement the rest of the way, and if he makes a good d-coordinator hire to build on that.

But I would also want to see playbook/playcalling improvement from Kelly. It's clear that the offense needs to be pass-to-set-up-the-run. Kizer needs to be airing it out early and often, softening things up for Adams later in the game. But it's like Kelly has no idea which direction he wants his strategy and playcalling to go.

I mean, we haven't run a quick-slant since TJ Jones graduated... and yet a slant is our go-to play on 4th down with a game on the line? Being smart and catching a team off guard is one thing. But relying on a play you never run in a literal do-or-die situation is just absurd, and screams "I don't know what this offense should be!!!!!"

 

[Irishman77]

power hour should be tasty today...

 

[greyhammer90]

power hour should be tasty today...

I'm weirdly looking forward to it. Mike Frank grousing is always a bright spot in a bad season.

 

[IrishBroker]

Firing BVG made the difference to me.

For now. But we have many other issues.

 

[Kingbish01]

Firing BVG made the difference to me.

Me too. He gets a Defensive Coordinator that can coach and recruit, I believe BK can win a championship. Look at it this way, if his def could keep teams under 25 points they would be 4-0 Imagine the possibilities if ND had a solid D year in and year out.

 

[SavIrish]

I don't know. I feel like they're plenty committed on the money, facilities and off-field support stuff. And I agree they don't need to cheat, per se.

But I think the sport is at a point where being at the forefront of the "legal and ethical aspects," as you put it, is seen by many, including many big-time coaches, as a barrier. In other words, Notre Dame would need to compromise.

When you just can't recruit half the top 300 players in the country because you know they won't get in. When you routinely lose a chunk of the top recruits you do land to various academic or should-be-minor disciplinary issues. And when you're competing for talent and playing against a bunch of schools that don't have those issues. To say nothing of being a Catholic school in northern Indiana, etc. etc. That's an issue. And any coach who wants the easiest path to glory and riches is going to look at our situation versus, say, LSU and pick LSU four times out of five.

The trouble is that a lot of people affiliated with the university, myself - an alum - included, don't particularly want to compromise that much, to put us on a level with LSU even without "cheating." Notre Dame being Notre Dame makes Notre Dame a lot easier to root for. If we became just another football factory, I think a lot of the appeal of the place would gradually fall away. I think that's a choice the university continues to make, and if that means they don't have a "total commitment" to winning at football, so be it.

The above stated "limitations" are real and is why ND is not for every coach(or player), but the right coach with the right mind set could win at ND....and winning at ND not only makes the coach a financially rich man but a mythological "coaching God" in the history of college football. The legacy one would have wining at ND is much greater than winning at other places, again not just at ND but in the history of college football. So if the right guy can see past the short term limitations and see the big picture of his legacy (not always the easiest thing to do), then ND can make you a legend among mere mortal coaches.

 

[irishff1014]

Kelly you might want to call a real estate company.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Kelly you might want to call a real estate company.

Or an insurance company. His house might mysteriously catch fire tonight.

 

[BeauBenken]

Holy shit guys, chill. We're up 13 right now. Everyone's man crush, Sanford, is apparently getting more say in the offense today, and honestly, other than big plays, I think our defense is playing better today, which is amazing because we just fired our defensive coordinator less than a week ago.

Y'all have no chill. I understand your opinions on our head coach were made ages ago and can't change, but can you watch our team play (while up!) and not be constantly bitching and moaning?

/End Rant