Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[dad4aa]

Florida fired Zook mid season and beat us out for Urbs. LSU will probably beat us out for Herman too. And why? Because our AD and (based on the poll here) about half of the fanbase are happy with 8-5.

Or half the fanbase believes 2012 can be repeated with a good DC.

 

[NDRock]

Florida fired Zook mid season and beat us out for Urbs. LSU will probably beat us out for Herman too. And why? Because our AD and (based on the poll here) about half of the fanbase are happy with 8-5.

Some are probably just gun shy about who they would actually hire if Kelly was fired. You may have been too young to remember the last few coaching searches but Kelly was by far the best hire we've had. He was essentially Herman back in 09. (Yes, I know Herman won the illustrious bowl game over an overrated FSU team, but Kelly went 12-0 at Cinci). We'll see, personally I think Kelly has peaked here. Hopefully Jack is getting prepared for a possibility that a coaching change must be made at the end of the year.

 

[ickythump1225]

Shaw

This guy intrigues me moving forward. I didn't expect much from him after Harbaugh left and thought he was getting fat on Harbaugh's spread, but this guy has impressed me. He is a good coach and his teams are tough. He would be used to higher academic standards coming from a place like Stanford (though I am aware they are more lax than ND is) and probably what we need considering our team right now is the straight up antithesis of a Stanford team: we are weak, mentally weak, and the defense couldn't stop a good high school offense.

I watched the second half of the Stanford-UCLA game last night and immediately thought how ND wouldn't finish that game. We might have scored to take the lead like they did, but we would have immediately coughed it up.

 

[notredomer23]

Show me a coach who openly criticizes their coordinators and I'll show you a coach who won't have anyone to hire when he needs a new one.

I am not advocating for that. To me, Kelly's responses show a deflection from responsibility. He can just as easily say the defensive coaching was a problem today and that starts from the top down or at least don't say it was great today how he said it was. I am still in Kelly's boat. He made the right decision here in letting go of Van Gorder. He made it too late by about 4 games, but that's Kelly for you.

That said, he fired Van Gorder at the right enough time because now the defense will get used to Hudson early on and hopefully Hudson will be able to start implementing his system the rest of the season and they will have a head start on it going into spring. Edit: didn't realize Hudson was interim, but the point somewhat stands.

At this point, if we go 7-5 or 8-4 I will applaud Kelly especially with the amount of starters that'll be returning. I am sick of "waiting til next season" with ND how it seems we always have since Weis, but with ND potentially bringing back every starter on offense (I think if McGovern and McGlichey come back for their fifth years) and returning 8 starts on defense, all accountability will be on Kelly next year. 10+ wins and a bowl win is a must IMO.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Or half the fanbase believes 2012 can be repeated with a good DC.

Yeah, let's repeat getting destroyed when we finally played an elite team.

 

[philipm31]

Good, so you agree with me. Not sure why you didn't respond to that and then just repeated yourself.



I agree, but you said we could go get anyone we wanted. That's entirely false.

Look, I get it. It's time to rally everyone and if you can't convince everyone that we can do better that's something to target as wrong-minded. I just don't buy into the naivety that we're in a super great position of power or that it's going to be easy to find a coach who can "put us over the top."

It only makes things worse to sell the world that we can get anyone we want.

Not sure what you mean.

I don't agree with that thinking, at all, ever. You can always do better.

ND needs to see that Kelly has peaked and need to actually look for his replacement. and even have it leak that they are, because he is clearly not getting better, the team is not getting better and I don't think his voice is getting through to the players anymore. Players need a passionate leader, and I don't think BK fits that mold anymore since he knows he's got another five years with ND. So while he wants the team to play with passion and urgency, they know that he does not have to coach that way, and you cannot pull the wool over your team's eye. They know when you are passionate and when you are going through the motions--which leads to them doing what you do.

The team needs a new voice in that lockerroom, because BK's voice is not being heard, at all, especially after he called out every player on that team and threw them under the bus without taking any responsibility for his lack of leadership, or that of his staff.

And yes, if ND wants a coach badly enough, they can get anyone they want. They have money, they have their own friggin' TV channel for god's sake and literally the most money of any team on the planet, when you look at the endowment which is in the billions and the millions of dollars they are spending to renovate the stadium. Sorry, but if you want to finance all that and still say you want to be a CFB program that matters, then you can absolutely get a coach who can help you take the next step.

Hell, Cutcliffe would be an upgrade over Kelly at this point.

He has coached 2 Heisman Finalists, 2 2x SB MVPs, been on the staff of a National Champion and turned around Duke into at least a competent bowl team. So, if you think Kelly has a great resume, compare it to Cutcliffe's and it comes up way short. Did I mention that Duke has the same or better academic qualifications and that he has experience in coaching in both the SEC and ACC, as well?

He may be older than Kelly but he just outcoached him on the road, while being at least a 2-TD underdog. Oh, and he knows how to coach QBs and has an innovative coaching mind, as well.

Ole Miss went down the road to Briarcrest HS in Memphis, TN for their current coach. Malzahn coached HS in Arkansas for years. It is not like ND has to look that hard, honestly. If they truly want someone, they can get them.

The point is that there are plenty of people out there, if you look hard enough, and they don't have to be Tom Herman, or any of the other "hot" names either, just a coach with the ability to get ND to the next level.

Have that spot open up and there will be a good number of them lining up.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

Poll:

A. Would Les take the ND DC job right now?

B. Should ND offer it to him?

My answers:
Yes
Yes

 

[irishandy]

Kelly is the right coach for ND and I don't know why this is a thread.

If you get rid of Kelly who are you going to get?

In Kelly's 6 full season's at ND he has had all winning seasons. In his time at ND he is 30 games above .500. Kelly currently has the most wins in the FBS.

I've said it once and I'll say it again the toughest coaching job in college football is right here at the University of Notre Dame.

There are many storied college football programs out there, but very few prestigious football programs like ND.

If Kelly kept BVG after this season I'd start questioning him....

GO IRISH!!

 

[arrowryan]

Kelly earned some respect from me for sacking up and making the move. For that, he's bought a year just to see what he can do with the new DC

 

[stlnd01]

At this point, if we go 7-5 or 8-4 I will applaud Kelly especially with the amount of starters that'll be returning. I am sick of "waiting til next season" with ND how it seems we always have since Holtz left, but with ND potentially bringing back every starter on offense (I think if McGovern and McGlichey come back for their fifth years) and returning 8 starts on defense, all accountability will be on Kelly next year. 10+ wins and a bowl win is a must IMO.

FIFY.
But, to be fair "wait til next year" applies to all but one program pretty much every single year.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Poll:

A. Would Les take the ND DC job right now?

B. Should ND offer it to him?

My answers:
Yes
Yes

He's never been a defensive coach. He's been an OL coach and an offensive coordinator in college.

 

[ndfi78]

Poll:

A. Would Les take the ND DC job right now?

B. Should ND offer it to him?

My answers:
Yes
Yes

Les is an offensive coach

 

[Rocket89]

Not sure what you mean.

That's pretty clear.

I don't agree with that thinking, at all, ever. You can always do better.

Which I've also said twice now.

ND needs to see that Kelly has peaked and need to actually look for his replacement. and even have it leak that they are, because he is clearly not getting better, the team is not getting better and I don't think his voice is getting through to the players anymore. Players need a passionate leader, and I don't think BK fits that mold anymore since he knows he's got another five years with ND. So while he wants the team to play with passion and urgency, they know that he does not have to coach that way, and you cannot pull the wool over your team's eye. They know when you are passionate and when you are going through the motions--which leads to them doing what you do.

The team needs a new voice in that lockerroom, because BK's voice is not being heard, at all, especially after he called out every player on that team and threw them under the bus without taking any responsibility for his lack of leadership, or that of his staff.

Perhaps.

And yes, if ND wants a coach badly enough, they can get anyone they want. They have money, they have their own friggin' TV channel for god's sake and literally the most money of any team on the planet, when you look at the endowment which is in the billions and the millions of dollars they are spending to renovate the stadium. Sorry, but if you want to finance all that and still say you want to be a CFB program that matters, then you can absolutely get a coach who can help you take the next step.

And we're back to my initial disagreement. 1994 wants its argument back, sir.

Hell, Cutcliffe would be an upgrade over Kelly at this point.

Could see this coming for a couple posts now. I remember the pining for Randy Esdall back in 2009 after the UConn game, too. You really don't need to be cornering yourself with this just because you want Kelly gone.

The point is that there are plenty of people out there, if you look hard enough, and they don't have to be Tom Herman, or any of the other "hot" names either, just a coach with the ability to get ND to the next level.

I mean, if you're stumping for David Cutcliffe it's pretty clear you're not that concerned with Notre Dame getting over the hump. So you think we can get anyone and your list of candidates is mighty long. For amusement sake, can you give us more names to replace Kelly?

 

[Classic Irish]

Some are probably just gun shy about who they would actually hire if Kelly was fired. You may have been too young to remember the last few coaching searches but Kelly was by far the best hire we've had. He was essentially Herman back in 09. (Yes, I know Herman won the illustrious bowl game over an overrated FSU team, but Kelly went 12-0 at Cinci). We'll see, personally I think Kelly has peaked here. Hopefully Jack is getting prepared for a possibility that a coaching change must be made at the end of the year.

I agree with much of what you say. But let's not forget that sometimes the grass isn't always greener. Remember when Nebraska fired Frank Solich? They brought in Bill Callahan who was a disaster. Maryland firing Ralph Friedgen to hire Randy Edsall was another dumb move. I'm not saying that ND shouldn't consider a change. But I think we need to be careful---there's always worse. Tom Herman wouldn't be the first potential coaching godsend who flamed out on a bigger stage.

 

[Classic Irish]

This guy intrigues me moving forward. I didn't expect much from him after Harbaugh left and thought he was getting fat on Harbaugh's spread, but this guy has impressed me. He is a good coach and his teams are tough. He would be used to higher academic standards coming from a place like Stanford (though I am aware they are more lax than ND is) and probably what we need considering our team right now is the straight up antithesis of a Stanford team: we are weak, mentally weak, and the defense couldn't stop a good high school offense.

I watched the second half of the Stanford-UCLA game last night and immediately thought how ND wouldn't finish that game. We might have scored to take the lead like they did, but we would have immediately coughed it up.

I seriously doubt that Shaw would leave Stanford (his alma mater) to come to ND.

 

[Classic Irish]

And yes, if ND wants a coach badly enough, they can get anyone they want. .

Sorry, but this is fairytale (i.e. ND Nation) thinking.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Sorry, but this is fairytale (i.e. ND Nation) thinking.

Have you read NDN recently? I don't think anybody there thinks that.

Make them want to come. Pony up the dough.

 

[Classic Irish]

Have you read NDN recently? I don't think anybody there thinks that.

Make them want to come. Pony up the dough.

Maybe I misunderstand you. You seem to think anyone (Saban and Meyer included) can be bought off (if ND "ponies up the dough"). I disagree. I think that anyone seriously harboring any hope that Saban or Meyer would end up at ND if only ND would pay them off is not dealing with reality. Sorry.

 

[dad4aa]

Yeah, let's repeat getting destroyed when we finally played an elite team.

So you are saying Diaco was a good DC? I'm not. I thought he was average yet we still made it to the Championship game. Difference is I look for both the negatives AND the positives...unlike you who seems to only point out the negatives.

And hell yes I would take going undefeated and getting destroyed in the NC a lot more than what is happening this year.

 

[NDRock]

I agree with much of what you say. But let's not forget that sometimes the grass isn't always greener. Remember when Nebraska fired Frank Solich? They brought in Bill Callahan who was a disaster. Maryland firing Ralph Friedgen to hire Randy Edsall was another dumb move. I'm not saying that ND shouldn't consider a change. But I think we need to be careful---there's always worse. Tom Herman wouldn't be the first potential coaching godsend who flamed out on a bigger stage.

I agree. I'm fine with ND keeping Kelly now that BVG is gone. My fear is that if we have a terrible season this year (which at this point is likely) then Kelly's seat is going to be hot. It's hard to get a big time coordinator to follow a Coach who may be one year away from being fired. We need to turn this season around quickly.

 

[dad4aa]

Maybe I misunderstand you. You seem to think anyone (Saban and Meyer included) can be bought off (if ND "ponies up the dough"). I disagree. I think that anyone seriously harboring any hope that Saban or Meyer would end up at ND if only ND would pay them off is not dealing with reality. Sorry.

^This

It's never just about the money

 

[NDRock]

Sorry, but this is fairytale (i.e. ND Nation) thinking.

Really, it's hard to say if it is true because I don't think ND is committed to doing everything in their power to be an elite football program. So yes, as ND currently operates, there is no way we could get anyone we realistically wanted (some guys aren't coming no matter what, Harbaugh for one). If ND actually decided to go all in* on football then there would be a chance. IMO.

*And I don't mean cheating.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Not sure what you mean.

I don't agree with that thinking, at all, ever. You can always do better.

ND needs to see that Kelly has peaked and need to actually look for his replacement. and even have it leak that they are, because he is clearly not getting better, the team is not getting better and I don't think his voice is getting through to the players anymore. Players need a passionate leader, and I don't think BK fits that mold anymore since he knows he's got another five years with ND. So while he wants the team to play with passion and urgency, they know that he does not have to coach that way, and you cannot pull the wool over your team's eye. They know when you are passionate and when you are going through the motions--which leads to them doing what you do.

The team needs a new voice in that lockerroom, because BK's voice is not being heard, at all, especially after he called out every player on that team and threw them under the bus without taking any responsibility for his lack of leadership, or that of his staff.

And yes, if ND wants a coach badly enough, they can get anyone they want. They have money, they have their own friggin' TV channel for god's sake and literally the most money of any team on the planet, when you look at the endowment which is in the billions and the millions of dollars they are spending to renovate the stadium. Sorry, but if you want to finance all that and still say you want to be a CFB program that matters, then you can absolutely get a coach who can help you take the next step.

Shit they could pay a DC $2.5mil and be a "CFB program that matters." They don't need to decapitate the program.

Wise ADs don't want to hire new head coaches if they don't have to. It's the easiest way to fuck up the program. See: Notre Dame, Michigan, Tennessee, USC.

Hell, Cutcliffe would be an upgrade over Kelly at this point.

He has coached 2 Heisman Finalists, 2 2x SB MVPs, been on the staff of a National Champion and turned around Duke into at least a competent bowl team. So, if you think Kelly has a great resume, compare it to Cutcliffe's and it comes up way short.

Are you on drugs man?

Ole Miss went down the road to Briarcrest HS in Memphis, TN for their current coach. Malzahn coached HS in Arkansas for years. It is not like ND has to look that hard, honestly. If they truly want someone, they can get them.

The point is that there are plenty of people out there, if you look hard enough, and they don't have to be Tom Herman, or any of the other "hot" names either, just a coach with the ability to get ND to the next level.

Have that spot open up and there will be a good number of them lining up.

Respectfully, you just sound pretty ignorant of how much of a gamble a new head coach is. And the coaches you bring up don't prove your point. Hugh Freeze was hired as an AD assistant before working his way up the ladder, starting as a TE coach. Gus Malzahn had a rare jump from HS to Arkansas OC, but then had a long path to becoming Auburn's head coach--which he may not be for much longer as he's on the hot seat.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Maybe I misunderstand you. You seem to think anyone (Saban and Meyer included) can be bought off (if ND "ponies up the dough"). I disagree. I think that anyone seriously harboring any hope that Saban or Meyer would end up at ND if only ND would pay them off is not dealing with reality. Sorry.

We aren't going to outbid Bama or OSU for Saban or Meyer anyway, but no, I don't think they would leave even if we could outbid their current employers. (I do think that our decision to supposedly lowball Meyer in 04 was not wise.) If top coaches really don't want to come here, we need to outbid the competition. For example, I think we could beat LSU in a bidding war for Herman. Does that mean he would come here? No. But at least we would have tried to make up for perceived disadvantages with a higher salary offer.

 

[Classic Irish]

We aren't going to outbid Bama or OSU for Saban or Meyer anyway, but no, I don't think they would leave even if we could outbid their current employers. (I do think that our decision to supposedly lowball Meyer in 04 was not wise.) If top coaches really don't want to come here, we need to outbid the competition. For example, I think we could beat LSU in a bidding war for Herman. Does that mean he would come here? No. But at least we would have tried to make up for perceived disadvantages with a higher salary offer.

Ok, I understand what you're saying.

 

[pkt77242]

A reliable source told me that this was the scene from the ND locker room after the game.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ep-xgd_eETE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[NDRock]

We aren't going to outbid Bama or OSU for Saban or Meyer anyway, but no, I don't think they would leave even if we could outbid their current employers. (I do think that our decision to supposedly lowball Meyer in 04 was not wise.) If top coaches really don't want to come here, we need to outbid the competition. For example, I think we could beat LSU in a bidding war for Herman. Does that mean he would come here? No. But at least we would have tried to make up for perceived disadvantages with a higher salary offer.

This is why it's obvious ND isn't willing to do everything in its power to be elite. Money should not be an issue. Facilities should not be an issue. Nutrition, S&C programs should not be an issue. ND should be at the forefront of the "legal and ethical" aspects of big-time football. I personally don't think they need to cheat or compromise to win, just need a total commitment.

 

[irishff1014]

Kelly earned some respect from me for sacking up and making the move. For that, he's bought a year just to see what he can do with the new DC

I could agree with this if I knew for sure that Kelly did this on his own with out the admin push buttons.

 

[Irish Insanity]

BK and Bill Bellichec(sp?) are good friends. Josh McDaniels has been rumored possibly be moving to a HC position after this year. Any chance BK goes to the Pats as OC on a mutual parting of ways?

 

[dwshade]

Bingo. I'm amazed that so many people fail to comprehend this.

Nonsense. You obviously missed Nick Saban last week chew Kiffin's ass out on the sideline and again after the game. Urban speaks his mind as well. Not an easy guy to work for.