Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

Brian Kelly Revisited


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Blazers46

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I dont know what was more painful to watch. The actual game or the post game press conference.
 

Meatloaf

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Well guys, looks like it's officially time to party likes it's 2007

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0WlO_xeeS2E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

irishff1014

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Herman Fleck Bielema in that order.

More guys will pop up on the radar soon.

Bielema isn't coming to ND either. He has been in the SEC for to long and his mouth/actions are a night mare. The admin won't even think about this one.
 

irishff1014

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sad when a head guy looks to place blame on everyone but himself once things go south. Typical for him tho��</p>— DaVaris Daniels (@SincerelyToot) <a href="https://twitter.com/SincerelyToot/status/779881255550722048">September 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">National championship year..<br>Staff = great. Leader = "sub par". People are hard to change.</p>— DaVaris Daniels (@SincerelyToot) <a href="https://twitter.com/SincerelyToot/status/779883851418075140">September 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Every defeated year has had blame placed on someone other than you.</p>— DaVaris Daniels (@SincerelyToot) <a href="https://twitter.com/SincerelyToot/status/779885625772236800">September 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Worst thing you could do is lie to yourself..</p>— DaVaris Daniels (@SincerelyToot) <a href="https://twitter.com/SincerelyToot/status/779885735038025728">September 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
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If this was a different player i would be worried but DD i am not worried about anything that comes out of his mouth.
 

DomerInHappyValley

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I can't believe that he put the blame squarely on the players and nothing on the coaching.
I'm in shock. I don't like Kelly, but I never thought that he would throw his players under the bus while protecting a staff that damn near everyone can see is to fault.

Guess you forgot the Weis guys vs. My guys comment.
 

stlnd01

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ND shouldn't lose games like this anymore.

The thing is, for a bunch of years - mid-2011 through September, 2016 - we didn't, really. Yes, we dropped that game to Northwestern in 2014, but we were playing with half a defense. And we'd let the likes of BC or Virginia hang around like we did last year, but win in the end.
To me that's been a trademark of Kelly teams, not losing the games we had no business losing. But at halftime yesterday I said to my wife how this felt like a Charlie Weis-era game. And sure enough...

Agree with others, at root it's an energy/culture thing. I'm not sure how that develops, as it didn't seem to be a problem last year. But I also have no idea how you turn it around mid-season.
 

gkautz10

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I am coming around to the realization that BK may be the cancer here. Van gorder may be a symptom but you don't treat the symptom you treat the disease. I still think Kelly is a good coach, I just think he has been preaching the same song and dance for too long and it is losing effectiveness. If we are still at waiting at this point in his career to take ND to the "next level", it's not happening. We should already be there if it's going to happen.

I think there is a good core of young coaches on the staff that you could hopefully build around. Les Miles looking for work soon? Him as the hc, keeping Sanford, Denson hiestand around and miles bringing in the rest. I think longo needs to be gone yesterday as well. The amount of injuries we have had over the last few years has to be due to some sort of training deficiency. No other way to explain it.

I am also tired of our guys appearing to play without an edge or passion and the coaches not creating that. Now I hate it when a player who makes a nice tackle gets up and celebrates like he just found the cure for cancer but god damn that shows some passion and makes it look like you have that I hate to say it but swagger. Every time duke made a nice play, coaches were coming to that guy and slapping his helmet jumping around, keeping the energy up. These are the intangibles that ND consistently loses at on the road as well as at home that are the difference makers in these down to the last possession games. My feel is that type of attitude starts at the top.
 
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GCND

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The coach won't matter. Between academics and culture it makes players soft....Softer than cotton...softer than silk. Not sure how it happens...but it's a real fact.

^ This is a very underrated reply. Realistically though, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. College football in general is the definition of corruption on multiple levels. But since no one wants to really discuss that and the hypocrisy on my part likely apparent, I won't rehash the harsh truth that the dark side is very much alive, winning or losing.

As for ND, you can't lean on the commercial repackaging of tradition and the constant blowing-of-smoke-up-the-you-know-what to generate the physical edge and mental focus that a sport like football demands. The finest facility in the world won't create it either. Nor does money make a good coach. But all of these things go into the constitution of recruiting, that the flash and the cash mean success. That you are already successful in the bubble of success that is a team enterprise with clout.

Regarding football, ND has been entitled since forever. If you are a true and frustrated ND fan, you have to have seen this since forever as well. It's easy to gloss over when we are winning, but as soon as the ship starts sinking, it's mutiny as though we've never seen this before. And it's a big reason why most fanbases don't respect us. Why should they? We enable this shit. Outside of venting, all this sober talk about firing Kelly and bringing in a new coach ASAP is some ridiculous entitled bullshit. Well, we got the money right? We may...

BUT NO. THAT MENTALITY IS SUPREMELY WRONG.

And kind of obscene on a deeper level.

We've never really burned this program to the ground. We just threw more money at the problem. How can we when we are continually invested in dead propaganda? This is no grassroots program with a hunger and devotion to stir shit up and strive to dominate unrelentingly as a sport. This is an extremely wealthy corporation that gives crazy bonuses to executives for failing.

We
are
ND.
 

arahop

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Lost 5 of last 6 games. Throws players under the bus. Still defends BVG. Does anyone honsetly think BK should still be the coach???? State your case anyone who voted yes. I will attack your position until the end.
 

Classic Irish

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You are wrong. Notre Dame can't hire anyone they want. We have been through this before. They wanted Myer bad and he turned them down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This^^^^^^^^^^^^

Coaches like Saban and Meyer will never coach at ND. Why? Because ND will never let itself become a minor league NFL team like Alabama and Ohio State. And that's what those coaches want---don't have to worry about players going to class and graduating players. Just football first and last.
 

GATTACA!

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I am coming around to the realization that BK may be the cancer here. Van gorder may be a symptom but you don't treat the symptom you treat the disease. I still think Kelly is a good coach, I just think he has been preaching the same song and dance for too long and it is losing effectiveness. If we are still at waiting at this point in his career to take ND to the "next level", it's not happening. We should already be there if it's going to happen.

I think there is a good core of young coaches on the staff that you could hopefully build around. Les Miles looking for work soon? Him as the hc, keeping Sanford, Denson hiestand around and miles bringing in the rest. I think longo needs to be gone yesterday as well. The amount of injuries we have had over the last few years has to be due to some sort of training deficiency. No other way to explain it.

I am also tired of our guys appearing to play without an edge or passion and the coaches not creating that. Now I hate it when a player who makes a nice tackle gets up and celebrates like he just found the cure for cancer but god damn that shows some passion and makes it look like you have that I hate to say it but swagger. Every time duke made a nice play, coaches were coming to that guy and slapping his helmet jumping around, keeping the energy up. These are the intangibles that ND consistently loses at on the road as well as at home that are the difference makers in these down to the last possession games. My feel is that type of attitude starts at the top.

calisanlarin-isyerinde-dikkat-etmesi-gereken-davranis-tipleri-fazla-iyimser.gif


I'm all in on Les. I think his message has grown stale down at LSU but I would love to see what he could do here with our talent. Keep Sanford on so our offense doesn't devolve into what they run at LSU and let Les take care of the rest.
 

Meatloaf

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^ This is a very underrated reply. Realistically though, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. College football in general is the definition of corruption on multiple levels. But since no one wants to really discuss that and the hypocrisy on my part likely apparent, I won't rehash the harsh truth that the dark side is very much alive, winning or losing.

As for ND, you can't lean on the commercial repackaging of tradition and the constant blowing-of-smoke-up-the-you-know-what to generate the physical edge and mental focus that a sport like football demands. The finest facility in the world won't create it either. Nor does money make a good coach. But all of these things go into the constitution of recruiting, that the flash and the cash mean success. That you are already successful in the bubble of success that is a team enterprise with clout.

Regarding football, ND has been entitled since forever. If you are a true and frustrated ND fan, you have to have seen this since forever as well. It's easy to gloss over when we are winning, but as soon as the ship starts sinking, it's mutiny as though we've never seen this before. And it's a big reason why most fanbases don't respect us. Why should they? We enable this shit. Outside of venting, all this sober talk about firing Kelly and bringing in a new coach ASAP is some ridiculous entitled bullshit. Well, we got the money right? We may...

BUT NO. THAT MENTALITY IS SUPREMELY WRONG.

And kind of obscene on a deeper level.

We've never really burned this program to the ground. We just threw more money at the problem. How can we when we are continually invested in dead propaganda? This is no grassroots program with a hunger and devotion to stir shit up and strive to dominate unrelentingly as a sport. This is an extremely wealthy corporation that gives crazy bonuses to executives for failing.

We
are
ND.

Except the problem is that we don't spend money on sports. Our facilities and S&C program lag way behind teams of a similar stature. Hell, Kentucky is going to have nicer facilities than us when they finish their new facilities. Everything related to athletic spending moves at a glacial pace because of all of the administrative hand wringing involved. By the time the Gug was built it was already obsolete by a few years.
 

Classic Irish

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calisanlarin-isyerinde-dikkat-etmesi-gereken-davranis-tipleri-fazla-iyimser.gif


I'm all in on Les. I think his message has grown stale down at LSU but I would love to see what he could do here with our talent. Keep Sanford on so our offense doesn't devolve into what they run at LSU and let Les take care of the rest.

You do know that Les went to Michigan and doesn't like ND, right?
 

greyhammer90

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calisanlarin-isyerinde-dikkat-etmesi-gereken-davranis-tipleri-fazla-iyimser.gif


I'm all in on Les. I think his message has grown stale down at LSU but I would love to see what he could do here with our talent. Keep Sanford on so our offense doesn't devolve into what they run at LSU and let Les take care of the rest.

Do you want to become Michigan in the early 2010s? Because pining for Les Miles is how you become Michigan in the early 2010s.
 

NDRock

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Except the problem is that we don't spend money on sports. Our facilities and S&C program lag way behind teams of a similar stature. Hell, Kentucky is going to have nicer facilities than us when they finish their new facilities. Everything related to athletic spending moves at a glacial pace because of all of the administrative hand wringing involved. By the time the Gug was built it was already obsolete by a few years.

Hell, how long did it take for ND to get a training table? We're talking about one freaking meal.
 

kmoose

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For anyone that hasn't watched/read the transcript...

Kelly defended all the coaches.
Kelly threw every player (except Dexter...) under the bus.

Kelly is choosing his buddies over his players.

This is not going to end well.

We're about to see some animosity, folks... This is going to make the Weis breakup look like child's play.

This is simply not true.

And now we, listen this is not all on our players, we still have to coach better as well. There's a lot that we have to do. Because we have got some young players that require really good communication and really good coaching, too. So, I'm a 1-3 coach, we're all 1-3 coaches, so we're in the same boat as all of our players. So let's be clear on that.

Q. Is there any reason you can put your finger on as to why they would lack that passion?
BRIAN KELLY: I must be doing a poor job. I've got to do a better job of finding out what those things are that are putting our football team in that position. But we got to have more of it.

He's calling out the entire team. For those of you who have never led a group of individuals in pursuit of a meaningful outcome; sometimes you have to "kick ass and take names", so to speak. Most people, when challenged, have enough pride to redouble their efforts in order to prove the challenger wrong. They tend to either achieve, or get closer to, the desired results when this happens. It's obviously not the FIRST method you try, but it is a tested, proven method for getting results, in certain circumstances.
 

ickythump1225

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I'm not sure how anyone still has faith in BK at this point. We're in year 7 of his tenure. How many coaches took their program to the "next level" after year 7? The sad truth is that coaches tend to do worse the longer they're at a job.

Coaching is cyclical and they usually start out with a program at a relative low point (that is why there was an opening) and then build for 1-3 years, then hit the sweet spot for another 3ish years (more or less depending on the quality of coach) and then start the downward trajectory at their job.

Think about it, was USC better or worse after Carroll's 7th year? What about Oklahoma under Stoops? UGA under Richt? LSU under Miles? OSU under Jim Tressel? Hell Urban Meyer didn't even make it to 7 years at Florida but the cracks in the foundation were apparent.

How many coaches make a marked improvement after 7 years on the job? Maybe Dantonio? In years 7, 8, 9 his teams won 12, 11, and 12 games respectively. But then again his teams had won 10+ games twice before so it wasn't unusual for him.

I would say that BK hit his coaching stride here from 2012-the 9th game of the 2014 season. He was 28-6 during that stretch, his best 34 game stretch of his career here probably. Since November 8th 2014 (the ASU game) BK is 12-10. This shows a coach in decline. The 2012 season was BK's absolute peak and the NCG against Alabama started a protracted decline. 2012 and 2015 are starting to stand out as aberrations amidst a backdrop of 8-5. ND will struggle to get to 8 wins this season. If it continues to play at this level getting bowl eligible isn't a certainty.
 

philipm31

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Brian Kelly, at least from a philosophical standpoint of his trajectory and resume prior to coming to Notre Dame, is pretty close to the best Notre Dame can do in modern times.

It's a lie that we can't do better, but it'll be really difficult. Let's not compound that by making a bigger lie that we can get anyone we want.

IMO, Kelly is proof that even if you don't check a few boxes at Notre Dame you run the risk of things going south quickly. In some ways that says more about ND.

The larger point is that people need to stop believing the lie that we can only get Kelly, anyone who believes otherwise needs to be silenced.

ND has the money and the resources to go out and present a greater program to another coach who can come in and finish the job that Kelly started. Kelly is a builder. He built the Cincy program into something that is at least viable and can attract talent that it never could before, and now he has helped build ND into a far more interesting program that can present far more than just a name and accomplishments from decades ago.

However, we need a coach that can take ND to the next level. It has been done before, and it can be done again. We don't need to buy into the trope that Kelly is the best ND will ever do, because if you truly believe that, then we should just shut down the football program as soon as he leaves. I don't believe that for a second, so I don't believe that Kelly is the absolute best ND could ever do. Was he the best available at the time, yeah. Is he best ND can ever aspire to having as HC, if we want to win another national title? No.

BK is a builder, and there is nothing wrong with that, but he is not and never will be able to take ND to consistent title contender, sadly.

It is time we realized that and started looking for his replacement. The fat that BK feels comfortable throwing kids under the bus and not saying anything bad about the coaching is all I need to hear, in order to know that he is not the right guy for ND anymore.
 

NDRock

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I'm not sure how anyone still has faith in BK at this point. We're in year 7 of his tenure. How many coaches took their program to the "next level" after year 7? The sad truth is that coaches tend to do worse the longer they're at a job.

Coaching is cyclical and they usually start out with a program at a relative low point (that is why there was an opening) and then build for 1-3 years, then hit the sweet spot for another 3ish years (more or less depending on the quality of coach) and then start the downward trajectory at their job.

Think about it, was USC better or worse after Carroll's 7th year? What about Oklahoma under Stoops? UGA under Richt? LSU under Miles? OSU under Jim Tressel? Hell Urban Meyer didn't even make it to 7 years at Florida but the cracks in the foundation were apparent.

How many coaches make a marked improvement after 7 years on the job? Maybe Dantonio? In years 7, 8, 9 his teams won 12, 11, and 12 games respectively. But then again his teams had won 10+ games twice before so it wasn't unusual for him.

I would say that BK hit his coaching stride here from 2012-the 9th game of the 2014 season. He was 28-6 during that stretch, his best 34 game stretch of his career here probably. Since November 8th 2014 (the ASU game) BK is 12-10. This shows a coach in decline. The 2012 season was BK's absolute peak and the NCG against Alabama started a protracted decline. 2012 and 2015 are starting to stand out as aberrations amidst a backdrop of 8-5. ND will struggle to get to 8 wins this season. If it continues to play at this level getting bowl eligible isn't a certainty.

Good points. I think Mack Brown at Texas is one of the few who got better later (won a NC in his 8th year).
 

philipm31

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I'm not sure how anyone still has faith in BK at this point. We're in year 7 of his tenure. How many coaches took their program to the "next level" after year 7? The sad truth is that coaches tend to do worse the longer they're at a job.

Coaching is cyclical and they usually start out with a program at a relative low point (that is why there was an opening) and then build for 1-3 years, then hit the sweet spot for another 3ish years (more or less depending on the quality of coach) and then start the downward trajectory at their job.

Think about it, was USC better or worse after Carroll's 7th year? What about Oklahoma under Stoops? UGA under Richt? LSU under Miles? OSU under Jim Tressel? Hell Urban Meyer didn't even make it to 7 years at Florida but the cracks in the foundation were apparent.

How many coaches make a marked improvement after 7 years on the job? Maybe Dantonio? In years 7, 8, 9 his teams won 12, 11, and 12 games respectively. But then again his teams had won 10+ games twice before so it wasn't unusual for him.

I would say that BK hit his coaching stride here from 2012-the 9th game of the 2014 season. He was 28-6 during that stretch, his best 34 game stretch of his career here probably. Since November 8th 2014 (the ASU game) BK is 12-10. This shows a coach in decline. The 2012 season was BK's absolute peak and the NCG against Alabama started a protracted decline. 2012 and 2015 are starting to stand out as aberrations amidst a backdrop of 8-5. ND will struggle to get to 8 wins this season. If it continues to play at this level getting bowl eligible isn't a certainty.

Bingo.

Well said.
 

NDgradstudent

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The only reason to keep BK is if Swarbrick has a commitment from Urbie that he will come to ND and save us in a couple years, possibly after he has won another NC at OSU.

Does Swarbrick have this commitment? Doubtful.

So why should we keep Kelly?
 

ickythump1225

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I do want to be clear, the issue at ND is bigger than BK. Far bigger. We haven't won a title since 1988, clearly this is indicative of something systematic and institutional. The institution is NOT in any way committed to winning. I will continue to call this hypocritical because I've grown more jaded to ND as an institution over the years.

ND has zero problem making a mockery of their so called Catholic beliefs and mission by supporting pro-choice politicians, supporting modernist gender theory, transgender rights, gay marriage, etc. Yet they mount their academic high horse when it comes to the program that has buttered their bread for the better part of a century. They don't have any cherished principles and they're not committed to any higher ideal, they are cheap and don't want to spend the money to put a quality product on the field. They act like the football program is some embarrassment to them, some red headed step child, and the not the breadwinner for the university for 100 years. ND football is the reason people in China and Africa know about the university. ND football is the reason midwestern boys like me dream of going to school there even if we can't play football well enough to make the team. "Rudy" doesn't get made for a middle tier football program.

I do think ND can do better than BK right now because BK is a coach in decline, but we're never going to "wake up the echoes" again until the administration changes its tune. Like I said earlier, ND either needs to A) do what is necessary to at least obtain a Stanford level of winning (a good role model program for us since they have similar academic standards and seemingly don't sell their soul completely SEC style) or B) just admit that they aren't interested in winning.
 

Classic Irish

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The only reason to keep BK is if Swarbrick has a commitment from Urbie that he will come to ND and save us in a couple years, possibly after he has won another NC at OSU.

Does Swarbrick have this commitment? Doubtful.

So why should we keep Kelly?

Meyer is not coming to ND. The sooner people stop believing in this fairytale, the better all will be. I'm not saying we should keep Kelly per se, but I think fans need to consider realistic candidates.
 

yankeehater

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I'm not sure how anyone still has faith in BK at this point. We're in year 7 of his tenure. How many coaches took their program to the "next level" after year 7? The sad truth is that coaches tend to do worse the longer they're at a job.

Coaching is cyclical and they usually start out with a program at a relative low point (that is why there was an opening) and then build for 1-3 years, then hit the sweet spot for another 3ish years (more or less depending on the quality of coach) and then start the downward trajectory at their job.

Think about it, was USC better or worse after Carroll's 7th year? What about Oklahoma under Stoops? UGA under Richt? LSU under Miles? OSU under Jim Tressel? Hell Urban Meyer didn't even make it to 7 years at Florida but the cracks in the foundation were apparent.

How many coaches make a marked improvement after 7 years on the job? Maybe Dantonio? In years 7, 8, 9 his teams won 12, 11, and 12 games respectively. But then again his teams had won 10+ games twice before so it wasn't unusual for him.

I would say that BK hit his coaching stride here from 2012-the 9th game of the 2014 season. He was 28-6 during that stretch, his best 34 game stretch of his career here probably. Since November 8th 2014 (the ASU game) BK is 12-10. This shows a coach in decline. The 2012 season was BK's absolute peak and the NCG against Alabama started a protracted decline. 2012 and 2015 are starting to stand out as aberrations amidst a backdrop of 8-5. ND will struggle to get to 8 wins this season. If it continues to play at this level getting bowl eligible isn't a certainty.

The only thing I can agree with is that the team is declining. I am not buying the 7 year cycle. A good coach is a good coach whether they are in year one or their 20th. Saban is doing just fine in his 10th year at Bama. Coach K at Duke, John Wooden at UCLA, Belicheck at New England. This is the difference between a good coach and a great one.

I am not sure about Kelly the teacher. His players are not improving under him. There are several who seemed to be duds that are now in the NFL. Maybe he has them playing out of place or his system is restricting their true athletic ability.
 

NDgradstudent

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I do want to be clear, the issue at ND is bigger than BK. Far bigger. We haven't won a title since 1988, clearly this is indicative of something systematic and institutional. The institution is NOT in any way committed to winning. I will continue to call this hypocritical because I've grown more jaded to ND as an institution over the years.

ND has zero problem making a mockery of their so called Catholic beliefs and mission by supporting pro-choice politicians, supporting modernist gender theory, transgender rights, gay marriage, etc. Yet they mount their academic high horse when it comes to the program that has buttered their bread for the better part of a century. They don't have any cherished principles and they're not committed to any higher ideal, they are cheap and don't want to spend the money to put a quality product on the field. They act like the football program is some embarrassment to them, some red headed step child, and the not the breadwinner for the university for 100 years. ND football is the reason people in China and Africa know about the university. ND football is the reason midwestern boys like me dream of going to school there even if we can't play football well enough to make the team. "Rudy" doesn't get made for a middle tier football program.

I do think ND can do better than BK right now because BK is a coach in decline, but we're never going to "wake up the echoes" again until the administration changes its tune. Like I said earlier, ND either needs to A) do what is necessary to at least obtain a Stanford level of winning (a good role model program for us since they have similar academic standards and seemingly don't sell their soul completely SEC style) or B) just admit that they aren't interested in winning.

It's certainly true that ND uses its "Catholic identity" is hypocritical and dishonest ways. (Heaven forbid that Clinton wins and they invite her to give a commencement speech. But does anybody think they'll invite Trump if he wins? Stay away from either of them next year, Fr. Jenkins. Don't be foolish.)

I'm a conservative Catholic grad student here and I am also an avid sports fan. I go to all the FB games, and many of other sports games, and have done since 2013. In my experience the priorities for the ND administration are:

(1) Money
(2) Academic prestige vis-a-vis Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc.
(3) Football success
(4) Catholic identity

The fact is that (1) having a successful football program does not violate "Catholic values"; (2) we will never be ranked as highly as Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc. It just won't happen by definition; (3) Catholic identity is what makes ND unique. There is no point in running away from it, any more than there is a point to IU running away from Bloomington.

I do not think that low investment in the football program is a problem, though. My understanding is that in order to tap into the endowment to build luxury boxes, a jumbotron, etc., they needed to have an academic pretense. That explains the "Trump stadium at Crossroads." Other sports, especially basketball, have completely suffered from an appalling lack of facilities because of this. Brey, who can beat Duke, deserves better than that.

Here's where I think you are right: ND cannot be lowballing coaches on salary. Offer coaches much more to come here. If they don't want to come here, make them want to come here. ND football does indeed butter the bread of the university. Without it, ND would be, with all due respect to Bethel College, Bethel College.
 

yankeehater

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All you need to know about the state of ND's program is that we are actually comparing Duke's football program to ND's in this thread.
 

notredomer23

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I still support Kelly but am sick of the BS he spews in his press conferences blaming players and not putting any blame on himself or coaches.
 
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