Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

Brian Kelly Revisited

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Lepresean

Lepresean

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I have heard from the father of a player that the team is starting to fracture. There are a group of players that Kelly allows to run wild and get away with it, while on the other hand he comes down on these other players for the smallest mistake. He used the arrest as an example.

I think BK's biggest problem is his ego, he thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Urban Meyer couldn't make a two quarterback system work, so why does he think that he can?
 
NorthDakota

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They are just mad they've lost 3 in a row. After they win this weekend they'll be fine.
 
IrishBroker

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Wingman Ray said:
A metric ton of talent that didnt win one game against very good competition

1) Clemson - loss
2) FSU - loss
3) OSU - blowout

Can you tell me what this metric ton of defensive talent has done? Beat Navy? Beat a bad Texas team?
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This.

We underperform against the cream of the crop. That's a running theme with the Irish over the last few years.

Yeah, we beat a bad LSU team in a bowl game, but lately we just haven't' been getting wins in marque matchups. Ones the nation is watching. Those are the games you need to be winning. Stanford, USC, and MSU are teams we play every year....we need to beat the teams we play in those rare matchups or bowl games.
 
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mango4

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Lepresean said:
I have heard from the father of a player that the team is starting to fracture. There are a group of players that Kelly allows to run wild and get away with it, while on the other hand he comes down on these other players for the smallest mistake. He used the arrest as an example.

I think BK's biggest problem is his ego, he thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Urban Meyer couldn't make a two quarterback system work, so why does he think that he can?
Click to expand...

Except Urban did make a two quarterback system work on his way to a national championship at Florida...

And Texas used a two quarterback system Sunday night. The way he used it was wrong but a two quarterback system can work.
 
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IrishBroker

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mango4 said:
Except Urban did make a two quarterback system work on his way to a national championship at Florida...

And Texas used a two quarterback system Sunday night. The way he used it was wrong but a two quarterback system can work.
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Ok, yes and no.

A 2 QB system doesn't work. As in, rotating them throughout the game. Like what Kelly did.

But a 2 QB system works when you use one QB in specific situations. That QB may not play every game, but he's effective in the situations you use him.

But I don't know that you'd really call that a "2 QB system" when one guy only gets about 10-15 snaps a game.
 
BobbyMac

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IrishBroker said:
This.

We underperform against the cream of the crop. That's a running theme with the Irish over the last few years.

Yeah, we beat a bad LSU team in a bowl game, but lately we just haven't' been getting wins in marque matchups. Ones the nation is watching. Those are the games you need to be winning. Stanford, USC, and MSU are teams we play every year....we need to beat the teams we play in those rare matchups or bowl games.
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Did ND under perform against FSU in '14? Clemson or Stanford in '15? Or did they just lose close games on the road? They got handled in Glendale last Jan but OSU could have done the same to anyone this side of Bama... and they could have beaten Bama too so said the '16 NFL Draft.

I'm not the biggest fan of the staff's coaching style or results but to say they don't step up in big games is nonfactual.
 
Cali_domer

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NDCrusader said:
Did ND under perform against FSU in '14? Clemson or Stanford in '15? Or did they just lose close games on the road? They got handled in Glendale last Jan but OSU could have done the same to anyone this side of Bama... and they could have beaten Bama too so said the '16 NFL Draft.

I'm not the biggest fan of the staff's coaching style or results but to say they don't step up in big games is nonfactual.
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Do they win many of them(Minus Oklahoma, that one I remember)? What is his record in high profile games? I actually am curious because I don't know the answer.
 
Ndaccountant

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Cali_domer said:
Do they win many of them(Minus Oklahoma, that one I remember)? What is his record in high profile games? I actually am curious because I don't know the answer.
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That would depend on your definition of high profile. For example, the UM game in 2014 was high profile in that it had boat loads of people watching and had significant exposure prior to the game. ND destroyed them. Ditto for Texas last year. Yes, those teams didn't end up being all that great, but the games were high profile none the less.

Now, if you would say what is BK's record versus teams that won 8/9 games or more in that season...........we would have a different answer.
 
Cali_domer

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Ndaccountant said:
That would depend on your definition of high profile. For example, the UM game in 2014 was high profile in that it had boat loads of people watching and had significant exposure prior to the game. ND destroyed them. Ditto for Texas last year. Yes, those teams didn't end up being all that great, but the games were high profile none the less.

Now, if you would say what is BK's record versus teams that won 8/9 games or more in that season...........we would have a different answer.
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This, moslyt because if they end badly then the victory isn't worth as much.
 
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ACamp1900

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To me, 'high profile' means a win that would shut up the haters/doubters... At this time the only games that are remotely close to that are OU 12 and LSU in the bowl game... thing is both were ultimately viewed as 'down' that particular year so even those two are borderline... sadly.
 
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NDgradstudent

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Cali_domer said:
Do they win many of them(Minus Oklahoma, that one I remember)? What is his record in high profile games? I actually am curious because I don't know the answer.
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By my count, his record (2010-15) against teams that finish in the AP top 10 is 2-9; against teams that finish in the AP top 25 is 6-18.

(That was a quick count, though, so I'm happy to be corrected.)
 
BobbyMac

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Cali_domer said:
Do they win many of them(Minus Oklahoma, that one I remember)? What is his record in high profile games? I actually am curious because I don't know the answer.
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That wasn't what i was responding to.

I came up with 7-9 going back to 2013. Some of the Stanford, Michigan & SC teams weren't top tier at the time of the game but I still included them.

They split with two bad for Michigan teams.

They beat a 5 loss Stanford

They beat a 4 loss SC.

So 4-8 against marquee teams since, 4-9 if you include the '12 NCG.
 
Domina Nostra

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NDCrusader said:
That wasn't what i was responding to.

I came up with 7-9 going back to 2013. Some of the Stanford, Michigan & SC teams weren't top tier at the time of the game but I still included them.

They split with two bad for Michigan teams.

They beat a 5 loss Stanford

They beat a 4 loss SC.

So 4-8 against marquee teams since, 4-9 if you include the '12 NCG.
Click to expand...

I think you have to include both the better and worse teams, since we are counting games--like last years OSU game--where our team was decimated.
 
BobbyMac

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Domina Nostra said:
I think you have to include both the better and worse teams, since we are counting games--like last years OSU game--where our team was decimated.
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I did. But we were talking about showing up in the big games. Michigan was .500ish combined in '13/'14 but they get counted because that's a marquee match up. Temple and Navy were both undefeated and had great years, they didn't get included though maybe Temple should... it was ESPN's CGD location afterall.

Question to you. How many of last year's playoff teams beat OSU in Glendale last year?

Not could have... but who would you have picked to beat them in Glendale on NYD?
 
IrishBroker

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NDCrusader said:
Did ND under perform against FSU in '14? Clemson or Stanford in '15? Or did they just lose close games on the road? They got handled in Glendale last Jan but OSU could have done the same to anyone this side of Bama... and they could have beaten Bama too so said the '16 NFL Draft.

I'm not the biggest fan of the staff's coaching style or results but to say they don't step up in big games is nonfactual.
Click to expand...

Maybe that was the wrong word....

We don't win. LOL.

There are the words
 
stlnd01

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DCirishfan said:
Imho we have not had top 10 recruiting so that's the real issue. Especially dline.
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Our recruiting on offense has been just fine. Defense has been a mixed bag but I agree with you about the d line.
And among our better recruits, I think you can make a case that attrition has been too high and player development - on defense at least - not what it should be. Redfield, of course. But also Trumbetti, for instance, was a highly-rated D Line recruit who does not seem to have gotten better since his freshman year. Jay Hayes has yet to really see the field, and I know some are worried about Tillery being "soft." This is a big season for all three of those guys.
 
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ShamrockOnHelmet said:
Imo, this the best it's going to get, and it's not Kelly or swarbricks fault. We just aren't getting classes full of 5 star guys, which is what you need to be elite. Those guys can't qualify academically. Until that changes, this is the absolute best we can do. The change that needs to be made isn't Kelly, it's with administration.
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From a recruiting perspective, I agree. However I think ND has not utilized defensive talent to the best of their capabilities. If they continue the improved defensive recruiting of last couple of years, they could field a very solid defense to go with a ridiculous offense. That would make them contenders just about every year.
 
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ShamrockOnHelmet said:
Imo, this the best it's going to get, and it's not Kelly or swarbricks fault. We just aren't getting classes full of 5 star guys, which is what you need to be elite. Those guys can't qualify academically. Until that changes, this is the absolute best we can do. The change that needs to be made isn't Kelly, it's with administration.
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At the end of the day ND thinks of itself as a school and is not going to do anything to win- certainly not lowering standards for athletes. I doubt that this will change with a future administration either: the future ND president candidates that I know are against any effort to reduce standards, either in terms of admission or class performance. Maybe that will change, but I doubt it.

I've graded the work of several ND football players. Even with our 'higher standards' the work is generally pretty bad, well below that of even an average ND student. Then again, it is not this bad.

Data exists on athletes' grades and SAT scores; it is just impossible to access. I would like to see hard evidence that 5 star players are less likely to qualify academically than lower star players before we assume that this is the main problem.
 
stlnd01

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NDgradstudent said:
Data exists on athletes' grades and SAT scores; it is just impossible to access. I would like to see hard evidence that 5 star players are less likely to qualify academically than lower star players before we assume that this is the main problem.
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I don't think five-stars are "less likely to qualify academically" than the average recruit (let's say three star or higher). It's just that there are a lot fewer five-stars, and thus fewer who qualify academically in a raw-numbers sense. You're fishing in a smaller pond than you are with three-stars. There's also a lot more competition.
 
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