Brian Kelly Contract

[Irishman77]

I hate the what if convo, but if Kelly has a QB day one the whole thing changes.

Working with Dayne, Montana, and Rees is something a newly hired head coach at Akron deals with. The only year we had a decent QB we went 12-0.

We all know it took entirely too long to get the QB's in place, but we are set now and will compete for the title every year going fwd!

 

[stlnd01]

Kelly is the only coach who has been able to make ND a consistent performer. Our down years have consisted of 8-5, 9-4 type seasons and that's how it should be.

Every year, we should be looking at double digit wins with a few plays dictating the special seasons from the disappointments.

The roster is stocked with maybe a few possible exceptions and Kelly has this program believing in itself.

Pay the damn man! He should be the highest paid coach in the country (at least top 5). He's restored ND, brought necessary changes with Swarbrick and helped the Irish sign lucrative deals with their more recent success on the field.

He's done more than Weis ever did and he's done it without playing to his strength: Offense.

Pay the man. Pay the man. Pay the man.

Assume we are. Those numbers come from before his recent contract extension. Would be surprised if he isn't at least top ten now.

By the way, if I was a student or staffer at Kansas, I'd be pretty ticked to learn $2.5 million Charlie is still banking another $2M a year from us. Least he could do is win a few games.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I see what you're saying but I don't think we're strictly limited by academic requirements or profile fits. I think if you're part of the ND brass you need to do what you can to stay "ahead of the game" in regards to facilities and recruiting tactics. To me it seems like ND is always the last one to the party, i.e. field turf/stadium updates, training table, alternate uniforms, summer football camps, mailing recruits 9842792 letters at a time.

There are certainly going to be more gimmicks for recruiters to use over the next several year and kids eat that shit up. If the recruiting offices can continue to win 10 games annually, hone the search on fits for the program and distinguishing itself from other programs in how they recruit elite guys I think they could land between 1 and 4 five star kids every year. The same kids that would be profile fits that still end up going SEC or USC, Stanford, Oregon, OU, etc. Obviously ND won't land them all and sustained success would likely only be attainable if ND was a top 5 program several years in a row, including NCAA Football playoff appearances.

A few things here. For Notre Dame to increase their recruiting success, first they have to win the big games. Secondly, they have to keep their facilities competitive against other programs. Thirdly, they have to be in a position to attract top flight coaches... and pay them accordingly. BK's salary is ridiculous IMO. And I am sure the assistants are not very competitive either. Lastly, they have to sell recruits on more than just the educational aspect of playing at ND. Those players in the top 50-100 range typically are the best of the best and while there is no guarantee they will make the NFL, the odds that they will are much higher than those ranked below them. Selling South Bend to top recruits is difficult... but not impossible. Getting top flight talent to want to leave their homes, states, geographical conference preferences, etc is even more difficult.

BK has proven he can recruit top talent as evidenced by ND's recruit rankings the last 2-3 years. Winning trumps all... and if the Irish can get to the playoffs, win a few of those games and maybe even a title, and the task gets much easier. Just my thoughts...

 

[zelezo vlk]

A few things here. For Notre Dame to increase their recruiting success, first they have to win the big games. Secondly, they have to keep their facilities competitive against other programs. Thirdly, they have to be in a position to attract top flight coaches... and pay them accordingly. BK's salary is ridiculous IMO. And I am sure the assistants are not very competitive either. Lastly, they have to sell recruits on more than just the educational aspect of playing at ND. Those players in the top 50-100 range typically are the best of the best and while there is no guarantee they will make the NFL, the odds that they will are much higher than those ranked below them. Selling South Bend to top recruits is difficult... but not impossible. Getting top flight talent to want to leave their homes, states, geographical conference preferences, etc is even more difficult.

BK has proven he can recruit top talent as evidenced by ND's recruit rankings the last 2-3 years. Winning trumps all... and if the Irish can get to the playoffs, win a few of those games and maybe even a title, and the task gets much easier. Just my thoughts...

I thought that since ND is a private institution, we are not privy to Coach Kelly's salary/contract numbers?

 

[T Town Tommy]

I thought that since ND is a private institution, we are not privy to Coach Kelly's salary/contract numbers?

It was somehow released a little while back. Don't remember by who but it showed that CW made more in 2012 from ND than BK did. I will see if I can find the story for you.

 

[Cali_domer]

It was somehow released a little while back. Don't remember by who but it showed that CW made more in 2012 from ND than BK did. I will see if I can find the story for you.

He makes more then what is on that list.

 

[zelezo vlk]

It was somehow released a little while back. Don't remember by who but it showed that CW made more in 2012 from ND than BK did. I will see if I can find the story for you.

Ah well I think that's another thing entirely. That was BK's first contract; he's now on his extension, IIRC.

 

[koonja]

Pretty sure BK makes 1.5 million. There's a reason Forbes has him as the #1 value coach.

 

[Cali_domer]

Pretty sure BK makes 1.5 million. There's a reason Forbes has him as the #1 value coach.

Some list says 4 mill after other deals...
They go by our tax return number and that doesn't include all his compensation

 

[koonja]

Some list says 4 mill after other deals...
They go by our tax return number and that doesn't include all his compensation

Are you saying his incentives make it more than 1.5 million? It's still all relative. If he's making 1.5 salary plus 1.5 in incentives, while a comparable coach is making 4 million plus 1.5 incentives, BKs still getting hosed IMO.

 

[Irish8248]

And our assistants are very competitive. Chuck Martin took a pay cut to go to Miami OH, he had a 650k salary at the time and ND was willing to up it even more. It's presumed BVG is making at least 850k as DC, which seems right since Diaco jumped at UCONN of all places for a 1.5m/yr gig

I think your last point TT is right on. Many believe that it's easy for these kids to see the value of ND. We have seen over the last two recruiting cycles more emphasis on our NFL capability. That's a big step IMO

 

[zelezo vlk]

Are you saying his incentives make it more than 1.5 million? It's still all relative. If he's making 1.5 salary plus 1.5 in incentives, while a comparable coach is making 4 million plus 1.5 incentives, BKs still getting hosed IMO.

It's my understanding that BK has some assurances that there will be further rewards after he passes from this life.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Notre Dame's Kelly received $607,200 bonus in 2012 | FOX Sports on MSN

Interesting that CW made more from ND than Kelly did in 2012.

From the thread Kelly's contract.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/168629-brian-kelly-contract-7.html

 

[koonja]

From the thread Kelly's contract.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/168629-brian-kelly-contract-7.html

I'm sorry, but that pay sucks for this job. He deserves much better.

And he can be paid by outside forces? Let's start paying out coaches. Our fanbase has money.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I'm sorry, but that pay sucks for this job. He deserves much better.

Agree 100%. The school needs to step up before he moves on. JMO

 

[koonja]

I read 5 seconds of this article, but NW's head coach pays him over 2 million for fuck's sake...

Northwestern football coach Pat Fitzgerald gets big pay

 

[Whiskeyjack]

From the article in question:

The $1.46 million likely wasn't the total amount of money Kelly was paid, however. The document states that Kelly is allowed to receive pay from external sources with prior written approval from the university and isn't part of the pay listed by the university.

Kelly's "outrageously low salary" gets brought up several times annually, and every time it's pointed out that the bulk of his pay almost certainly comes from 3rd parties which don't have the same disclosure requirements as ND. I'd bet large sums-- significantly larger than Kelly's relatively low base salary-- that his pay is competitive with other top coaches in CFB.

 

[koonja]

From the article in question:



Kelly's "outrageously low salary" gets brought up several times annually, and every time it's pointed out that the bulk of his pay almost certainly comes from 3rd parties which don't have the same disclosure requirements as ND. I'd bet large sums-- significantly larger than Kelly's relatively low base salary-- that his pay is competitive with other top coaches in CFB.

Based on what? And what's to say other CFB coaches aren't also getting large amounts outside of their contract, which brings it back to my point of relativity.

If BK gets .6 million salary, .7 million bonuses, and is paid 2 million outside of the contract, while other coaches get 2 million salary, .7 bonuses, and 2 million outside of contract, BKs still getting hosed.

 

[Voltaire]

Based on what? And what's to say other CFB coaches aren't also getting large amounts outside of their contract, which brings it back to my point of relativity.

If BK gets .6 million salary, .7 million bonuses, and is paid 2 million outside of the contract, while other coaches get 2 million salary, .7 bonuses, and 2 million outside of contract, BKs still getting hosed.

If BK felt like he were getting hosed compared to what his peers are getting paid in total compensation, he would leave. The fact that he hasn't left Notre Dame is direct evidence that his compensation is in line with what he thinks it should be. I think it's that simple.

 

[koonja]

If BK felt like he were getting hosed compared to what his peers are getting paid in total compensation, he would leave. The fact that he hasn't left Notre Dame is direct evidence that his compensation is in line with what he thinks it should be. I think it's that simple.

He very well may. For all we know, Chip Kelly got offered the Eagles job and BK never had an offer. We'll see. We should pay him before it's too late IMO.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Whatever he gets... and whoever or wherever he gets it from... he has proven he is worth it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Based on what? And what's to say other CFB coaches aren't also getting large amounts outside of their contract, which brings it back to my point of relativity.

If BK gets .6 million salary, .7 million bonuses, and is paid 2 million outside of the contract, while other coaches get 2 million salary, .7 bonuses, and 2 million outside of contract, BKs still getting hosed.

BK has climbed the coaching ladder very quickly. He was only at CMU and UC for 3 years each before jumping to a better job. He almost jumped from ND to the NFL, but a new contract (the details of which remain undisclosed) kept him at ND at the last minute. So which of the following strikes you as the most likely scenario here:

1. Kelly knows what he's worth, and is being compensated fairly (though unconventionally) by ND;
2. Kelly knows what he's worth, and isn't being compensated fairly by ND;
3. Kelly doesn't know what he's worth, and ND is taking advantage of him.

It's obviously (1). We can safely rule out (2) because Swarbrick isn't an idiot, and based on Kelly's past, it's pretty safe to infer that he'd be gone already if he was actually getting hosed. And we can rule out (3) because Kelly clearly isn't an idiot either.

But if you'd prefer to wring your hands over this issue, be my guest.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Based on what? And what's to say other CFB coaches aren't also getting large amounts outside of their contract, which brings it back to my point of relativity.

If BK gets .6 million salary, .7 million bonuses, and is paid 2 million outside of the contract, while other coaches get 2 million salary, .7 bonuses, and 2 million outside of contract, BKs still getting hosed.

Notre Dame used to have a rule that the football coach can't make more than the highest paid professor. I don't think that stands (though with the business school there are certainly profs making bank) but ND has always augmented coach salaries with third party sources like the athletic sponsors and the television contract (which is also of unknown value). Kelly isn't getting $1.5 million plus the same outside source benefits that other coaches get; he is getting that money from the school plus pieces of other income that coaches do NOT normally get.

ND doesn't like to show all its football income. The old NBC deal included the network paying for things like renovations and scoreboard which are benefits of undisclosed value. It's just how the university does it and the public numbers should never be trusted as accurate demonstrations.

 

[koonja]

BK has climbed the coaching ladder very quickly. He was only at CMU and UC for 3 years each before jumping to a better job. He almost jumped from ND to the NFL, but a new contract (the details of which remain undisclosed) kept him at ND at the last minute. So which of the following strikes you as the most likely scenario here:

1. Kelly knows what he's worth, and is being compensated fairly (though unconventionally) by ND;
2. Kelly knows what he's worth, and isn't being compensated fairly by ND;
3. Kelly doesn't know what he's worth, and ND is taking advantage of him.

It's obviously (1). We can safely rule out (2) because Swarbrick isn't an idiot, and based on Kelly's past, it's pretty safe to infer that he'd be gone already if he was actually getting hosed. And we can rule out (3) because Kelly clearly isn't an idiot either.

But if you'd prefer to wring your hands over this issue, be my guest.

Or 4), in 2012 when he almost considered leaving, he either didn't get offered the Eagles job (very likely considering Chip Kelly was in play) and so he decided to come back considering he had Golson to groom and no other options on the table. So did he really stay because of the new lucrative deal, or was it the obvious (aka, only) option for him at the time.

Saying that 'he hasn't left therefore he believes he's paid accordingly' is a simple explanation, IMO. It could be the truth, but I see people everywhere who know they're worth more but remain in place because they have no better options at the time, but they will and when they do, they're gone.

That's why you take care of those people before they give you the month's notice.

 

[T Town Tommy]

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nd/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/2012-13-eda-report.pdf

Some general info through ND's HEA reporting. Doesn't give specifics but some overall good info on athletic expenses/ revenues etc. From 2012/13

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Or 4), in 2012 when he almost considered leaving, he either didn't get offered the Eagles job (very likely considering Chip Kelly was in play) and so he decided to come back considering he had Golson to groom and no other options on the table.

I can't find a citation to support this at the moment, but I thought it had been established that Kelly was offered the job, and that he declined it.

Saying that 'he hasn't left therefore he believes he's paid accordingly' is a simple explanation, IMO. It could be the truth, but I see people everywhere who know they're worth more but remain in place because they have no better options at the time, but they will and when they do, they're gone.

What's wrong with simple explanations? Occam's Razor is a powerful tool. The problem with your theory is that it requires us to ignore Kelly's immediate history of quickly taking better positions prior to ND, and it requires us to make some very unlikely assumptions about Jack Swarbrick's competence. Why would the University risk losing Kelly in order to save an inconsequential* amount of money?

*Compared to what a successful football program brings in.

 

[Irish8248]

The posting logic is starting to resemble the violations thread ... Quit with the witch hunt, save it for the off season

Coney - come on down

 

[Ndaccountant]

Based on what? And what's to say other CFB coaches aren't also getting large amounts outside of their contract, which brings it back to my point of relativity.

If BK gets .6 million salary, .7 million bonuses, and is paid 2 million outside of the contract, while other coaches get 2 million salary, .7 bonuses, and 2 million outside of contract, BKs still getting hosed.

I would check out USAToday's website where they document other sources of income. Nothing is over a few hundred thousand. Remember, ND has the richest apparel deal and not every school has as many national deals as what ND does.

Then there is this from 2010 (pre contract extension)

Rising coaches' pay puts pressure on athletic departments | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

Notre Dame doesn’t disclose coaches’ salaries. Sports business experts estimate that the school’s new football coach, Brian Kelly, is among the highest-paid college coaches, making $3 million to $4 million a year.

Finally, something a little more recent.

Notre Dame No. 2 in ranking of football riches, IU tops Purdue | 2014-01-09 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

ND is the second highest "valued" program behind only Texas and is significantly ahead of everyone else. There is no conceivable way they are paying BK like a Mac School.

Plainly put, ND doesn't pay the highest, but I have little concern that it pays top 10-15 type money.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

NDFB's got 99 problems, but money ain't one.

 

[NDdomer2]

The posting logic is starting to resemble the violations thread ... Quit with the witch hunt, save it for the off season

Coney - come on down

this.

i feel like if koon can't see the pay stub it isn't happening.