BK Spring Ball Opening Presser Notes

[peoriairish]

can anyone else see Cole Luke moving in front of Lo by midyear once he learns the system?

Yup.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

can anyone else see Cole Luke moving in front of Lo by midyear once he learns the system?

Not in my opinion.

 

[greyhammer90]

And since then, we competed for a national title, while they fired Skip and are in serious danger of being left without a seat when the realignment music stops.

SCOREBOARD SCOREBOARD SCOREBOARD

 

[Irish YJ]

can anyone else see Cole Luke moving in front of Lo by midyear once he learns the system?

Yes, he's got excellent ball skills from everything I've seen, and everything I've read. Fantastic hip flex and very fluid. Mixed read on polish. Heard nothing about his FB IQ but insticts are great. If he can put on 10lbs or more by fall, I think he will move up the chart quickly.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm with you, GITF. Although, I'm still reluctant to call Day very good (at this stage anyway-- I think he'll be very good for sure...one day). And to be picky, I'm not sure I'd call Springman a good depth player yet either. Thinking of him as a b-ball sub, he's a guy you could put in and hopefully steal some minutes-- he won't kill you, but he also won't really make any plays out on the court.

I think Jones, Day, and Vanderdoes are all keys to how good the D and D-Line can truly be.

Day had 23 tackles and what three or four sacks to freshman Aaron Lynches 19 tackles and 5.5 sacks the year before? Who had more minutes? Who played a role on the better defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Agreed wholeheartedly. If Day could put on another 20-30 lbs and do a passable Nix impression, the future of our DL would be even brighter. But his apparent inability to put on weight (or the maybe staff's hesitance to bulk him up?) probably means that ain't gonna happen.

20-30 for him could still come easy by start of the 2014 season. Very well could be the staff's choice in part. Anyone know about his injury history, or hopefully lack thereof?

Do you really think Day is another Nix? The dude is quicker than a hiccup, faster than quick, too, really! I don't ever seeing him do more than bouncing in occasionally. If he were taller maybe less of you would have a problem, but he is a 3-4 defensive end. He can rush, and play the run. Part of the reason I counted him elite, other than he outpaced a freshman All-American, is that by the end of the season he was more balanced than Kappy. In the NC game he was an integral part of that defensive line that you heard BK state that Bama didn't push around. He alternated until Kappy got hurt early, and then played most of the rest of the game as I remember. Did pretty well considering. But with Nix and Tuitt, the best offensive line in the country didn't push him around very much.

And I love Kappy, he gave the program everything. But his productivity will be replaced this season; I do wonder if his leadership will.

 

[IrishLion]

Still burns me a bit but only like a very light sunburn. He had amazing raw talent and would have been elite in passing downs. I'm not saying we are better off without him, but I think it forced us to improve other aspects of the team, and gave other kids experience. If the rumors of his attitude are true, then we are in fact better off without him.

At the end of the day, if he had stayed, I believe he would have picked up weight and strength, and easily a top 15 player on draft day after this season. As it stands now, he's regressed with his size, and likely strength after sitting out a year (which he could have used to do the opposite). He's now looking at either A) entering the draft as an undersized DE after this year, or B) playing for 2 years for a team in limbo, and likely won't get the coaching and s/c support he would have enjoyed at ND. Not to mention the things that are more important than football.

Sucks for us, sucks for him, and we all no his mother was not happy. It's to bad, really like his mom's love for ND.

He'll be coached up just fine with Taggert in place; Western Kentucky had no business being as good as they were under Taggert, but he's a good coach that can develope some quality. Western Kentucky had two pretty good DE's under Taggert, so I assume his defensive coaching staff at USF will have some success with a talent like Lynch. Whether Lynch responds to the coaching is the real question, not the strength program or coaching itself.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadman95
I think Day hurt his knee celebrating (don't remember which game) because he was more dynamic before that. He wasn't as much a factor after.

I thought he was average after that. If true, I think he'll be bigger surprise this year.

Agree. I think he hit the freshman wall.

I love you guys! But, I really find this funny! What do you want from a kid? He comes in to an experienced defensive line, the best ND has had since Holtz was coach, showed the maturity and conditioning to make the two deep immediately, behind a fifth year senior captain on one side and an All-American on the other. His coaches continually refer to him as having the maturity of a sophmore or a junior, (all season long). He had more tackles than any freshman player since ??? More than Lynch, Johnson, Tuitt, Lewis-Moore, etc., etc., as a freshman, and you either need to change him to nose guard or don't see where he has that much potential.

I will tell you all you need to know about Sheldon. He is between 6 and 6'1" he is twice as wide as me, which is saying something. His legs are like tree trunks. He doesn't look like he has long limbs because they are so big around. But this cat is quick and has a high motor. And he is more athletic at that size that almost anyone would give him credit for. I am telling you. He may be atypical, but he gots it! And he can bring it.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

As it stands today I will go this way:

Elite:
Tuitt
Nix

Very Good:
Shembo
Day

Unproven but potential to be great:
Vanderdoes (probably moves to elite quickly)
Jones
Williams (has to show something this year)
Rochelle

Good depth players:
Schwenke
Hounshell
Springmann
Utupo

I think that I like my view better, but I helped you with the list.

 

[Irish YJ]

He'll be coached up just fine with Taggert in place; Western Kentucky had no business being as good as they were under Taggert, but he's a good coach that can develope some quality. Western Kentucky had two pretty good DE's under Taggert, so I assume his defensive coaching staff at USF will have some success with a talent like Lynch. Whether Lynch responds to the coaching is the real question, not the strength program or coaching itself.

Taggert and company may be good, but they are not BK's staff and Longo. No way, not even close he gets at USF what he could have received at ND. Facility wise also....

Throw in NBC coverage vs who knows for USF.

 

[Irish YJ]

Do you really think Day is another Nix? The dude is quicker than a hiccup, faster than quick, too, really! I don't ever seeing him do more than bouncing in occasionally. If he were taller maybe less of you would have a problem, but he is a 3-4 defensive end. He can rush, and play the run. Part of the reason I counted him elite, other than he outpaced a freshman All-American, is that by the end of the season he was more balanced than Kappy. In the NC game he was an integral part of that defensive line that you heard BK state that Bama didn't push around. He alternated until Kappy got hurt early, and then played most of the rest of the game as I remember. Did pretty well considering. But with Nix and Tuitt, the best offensive line in the country didn't push him around very much.

And I love Kappy, he gave the program everything. But his productivity will be replaced this season; I do wonder if his leadership will.

You quote me, but I'm not digging on him. Not calling for anything, just commenting on the ability or inability to gain weight???

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You quote me, but I'm not digging on him. Not calling for anything, just commenting on the ability or inability to gain weight???

I understand, I was trying to get your quote and Whiskey's above, for the ambiance. I am really not trying to be negative, either. It is just that many people see the girth, which pops out at you and people think nose.

Sheldon was pretty max when he came in. I think one of the coaches commented on it. Maybe Elston. He said, don't let his looks fool you. And I can attest. When you stand next to Sheldon, it looks like he is smuggling bombs under his shirt.

Interesting question. Do they want him to gain weight when he came in just under 290? They are fine with Hounshell playing at 280. If he gains strength, may he just not lose a little body fat and remain near the same weight? Hell, I don't know!

 

[Irish YJ]

I understand, I was trying to get your quote and Whiskey's above, for the ambiance. I am really not trying to be negative, either. It is just that many people see the girth, which pops out at you and people think nose.

Sheldon was pretty max when he came in. I think one of the coaches commented on it. Maybe Elston. He said, don't let his looks fool you. And I can attest. When you stand next to Sheldon, it looks like he is smuggling bombs under his shirt.

Interesting question. Do they want him to gain weight when he came in just under 290? They are fine with Hounshell playing at 280. If he gains strength, may he just not lose a little body fat and remain near the same weight? Hell, I don't know!

I'm with you. Either way, I really like him, and trust the coaches to make the right choice. As someone already commented on another issue, we have too many first world problems... LOL.

 

[ulukinatme]

I love you guys! But, I really find this funny! What do you want from a kid? He comes in to an experienced defensive line, the best ND has had since Holtz was coach, showed the maturity and conditioning to make the two deep immediately, behind a fifth year senior captain on one side and an All-American on the other. His coaches continually refer to him as having the maturity of a sophmore or a junior, (all season long). He had more tackles than any freshman player since ??? More than Lynch, Johnson, Tuitt, Lewis-Moore, etc., etc., as a freshman, and you either need to change him to nose guard or don't see where he has that much potential.

I will tell you all you need to know about Sheldon. He is between 6 and 6'1" he is twice as wide as me, which is saying something. His legs are like tree trunks. He doesn't look like he has long limbs because they are so big around. But this cat is quick and has a high motor. And he is more athletic at that size that almost anyone would give him credit for. I am telling you. He may be atypical, but he gots it! And he can bring it.

I gotta agree with this. I think Sheldon will step in with Kap graduating and do a fantastic job. I don't see anyone ahead of him on the roster at this point.

 

[Irish YJ]

Just checked out Rivals depth chart.... what struck me odd is that after Nix 347, weightwise the closest is Tuitt at 322.

I'm sure it's updated via the presser somewhere in the thread, but to lazy and need to hit the pillow.

 

[peoriairish]

Seriously guys. Go back and watch some tape. Sheldon was a stud. He will with almost 100% certainty be an upgrade, skill and pure playing-wise, from Kap. He doesn't have the leadership yet, but he's a freaking bowling ball and a brick wall all rolled into one. Watch out.

 

[pkt77242]

can anyone else see Cole Luke moving in front of Lo by midyear once he learns the system?

If Lo Wood is 100% healthy then no. If Wood isn't then yes.

 

[Irish Fam]

From what I have read you guys are missing what truly makes sheldon great and that is his hands.

He can keep blockers off of him with what appears to be incredible ease.

 

[Luckylucci]

From what I have read you guys are missing what truly makes sheldon great and that is his hands.

He can keep blockers off of him with what appears to be incredible ease.

Exactly, This is what I keep coming back to. What elston and diaco have echoed many times is how advanced day was when coming in last year. I don't think they meant as much physical as they did skill and technique. I always think Warren sapp

 

[irishog77]

I'm with you, GITF. Although, I'm still reluctant to call Day very good (at this stage anyway-- I think he'll be very good for sure...one day). And to be picky, I'm not sure I'd call Springman a good depth player yet either. Thinking of him as a b-ball sub, he's a guy you could put in and hopefully steal some minutes-- he won't kill you, but he also won't really make any plays out on the court.

I think Jones, Day, and Vanderdoes are all keys to how good the D and D-Line can truly be.

Day had 23 tackles and what three or four sacks to freshman Aaron Lynches 19 tackles and 5.5 sacks the year before? Who had more minutes? Who played a role on the better defense?

What does Aaron Lynch have to do with my post on Sheldon Day and/or linemen? Why not post Steve Lattimer's numbers his freshman year too? They're just as relevant.

 

[Emcee77]

He was a poor system fit with a bad attitude. We can play "coulda, woulda, shoulda" all day long, but no one knows what would have happened. Lynch allegedly wanted back in last season, but the staff turned him down. That's pretty powerful evidence that you're wrong.

Whoa really?? He wanted to transfer back?? This guy just does not have his **** together.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

Bogs--the only thing i'll disagree with your assessment of the defense is that Shaq is elite.
not yet.

 

[dublinirish]

Wow that is very small. Councell ways more than him at OLB. Either that's way off or he's in trouble.

married life must be stressful for him

 

[EuropeanDomer]

322 lbs for Tuitt? That's crazy. I would like see him in 290-295 pounds, 5-10 less than last year to gain more explosiveness off the snap. It is impossible not to lose some explosiveness/quickness with 20 more pounds. I don't like it. He will not able to win the edge.

 

[tadman95]

I love you guys! But, I really find this funny! What do you want from a kid? He comes in to an experienced defensive line, the best ND has had since Holtz was coach, showed the maturity and conditioning to make the two deep immediately, behind a fifth year senior captain on one side and an All-American on the other. His coaches continually refer to him as having the maturity of a sophmore or a junior, (all season long). He had more tackles than any freshman player since ??? More than Lynch, Johnson, Tuitt, Lewis-Moore, etc., etc., as a freshman, and you either need to change him to nose guard or don't see where he has that much potential.

I will tell you all you need to know about Sheldon. He is between 6 and 6'1" he is twice as wide as me, which is saying something. His legs are like tree trunks. He doesn't look like he has long limbs because they are so big around. But this cat is quick and has a high motor. And he is more athletic at that size that almost anyone would give him credit for. I am telling you. He may be atypical, but he gots it! And he can bring it.

I agree about Sheldon, not sure I understand why you took exception to my comment. My comment was that it looked like he hurt his knee and it seemed like his effectiveness fell of after that. His explosiveness seemed to have suffered. No empirical evidence, just an opinion.

Never said I wanted anything, thought he was great, especially for a true freshman, and expect good things going forward.

 

[rocket66]

Day was much better against the run as a frosh than Lynch, but not as good of a pass rusher, obviously. I'm not concerned about his weight. 286 is a good size for his height.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What does Aaron Lynch have to do with my post on Sheldon Day and/or linemen? Why not post Steve Lattimer's numbers his freshman year too? They're just as relevant.

Because Aaron Lynch was a freshman All-American and half the people on this site had a man crush on him until he douched out. I thought it was a good reality check, comparison of numbers. Because nobody ever criticized AL's on field play, when in fact he couldn't defend the run or two gap. Sheldon did that last year, out of the blocks, like an upperclassman. Which goes back to my original point, which was why I think there is evidence he will perform as elite this year. Just my feeling, with a paper trail, that's all

Sláinte! Agus Síochána!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I agree about Sheldon, not sure I understand why you took exception to my comment. My comment was that it looked like he hurt his knee and it seemed like his effectiveness fell of after that. His explosiveness seemed to have suffered. No empirical evidence, just an opinion.

Never said I wanted anything, thought he was great, especially for a true freshman, and expect good things going forward.

I actually didn't take exception to your comment. I appologise if it seems that because I quote I am opposed. I guess I looked at a quote as more of a starting point! Of an idea. Like yesterday, I quoted Kelly. I rarely disagree with him. (If I do, he makes me run gassers.) Just kidding.

Actually, I thought he hurt his knee at that time too, but in the post-game, if you go back and look, Kelly said he had been battling it all game long. (I meant to say something about that and got long winded, and just left it off.)

Sláinte! Agus Síochána!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Bogs--the only thing i'll disagree with your assessment of the defense is that Shaq is elite.
not yet.

Agreed! What I was trying to say, and not succeeding, was that he is elite talent, but has not shown it on the field yet. The other thing I did poorly was promote my list as to possibility for this season, not as a guarantee.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Stephon Tuit - Already. Period.
Louis Nix - Best nose in America! Hell, best in the universe.
Prince Shembo - I watched him routinely run around and overturn 300 + lbs tackes last season.
Ishaq Williams - He has been elite, he needs to show it on the field all game long.
Sheldon Day - He was elite as a recruit, better than both Lynch and Tuitt as a frosh; and this year he will astonish everyone. Bank on it.
Jaron Jones, 6'5"- 6'6", 300lbs +, with near Tuitt speed, and Coach Kelly's comendation, yup!
Tony Springman, over 6'6", 300lbs, and with experience. He can play anwhere along the line and keeps improving. Inside info that he is really coming on strength and conditioning wise; and the RED HAIR, come on!
Chase Houndshell As a freshman two years ago on a bad shoulder he saw really meaningful minutes and played like a champion. Kelly made a point about his size and strength gains. Dwarfed by star power he was a really good recruit, probably better than ND would have ever actually landed before the Kelly Era.
Kona Swenke 6'4-5", 300lbs, Kelly has been heard saying that he could play for anyone in the country, and Kelly came damnd close to saying it in this press conference.
Eddie Vanderdoes - Does anyone believe he is not elite?

Look, don’t take this personally and let’s not turn this into a you-vs.-me thing again. But I have to say I respectfully disagree. I look at this list of ND players and say only the most fervent of fervent ND fans would look at most of these players as elite. What is your definition of elite? I think of it as being the best of the best, 1st and 2nd team AA or 1st or 2nd round draft picks, guys like Tyler Eifert, Michael Floyd, Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate and Manti Te’o. Webster’s defines elite as:

The best of a class

* Nix and Tuitt, no doubt. Shembo...very good but not elite IMO, but he made incredible strides last year, no doubt.
* I don’t see how Tony Springman (despite your inside sources saying he’s making great strides) can be elite when he had 11 total tackles last year. That’s not elite by any standard.
* Kona Schwenke is NOT elite, by the mere fact that a guy with 11 tackles passed him on the depth chart, and he’s going into his senior year with 7 tackles in his career.
* Jarron Jones hasn’t played a down of college football. Neither has EV (who I think will be elite). You caution us about heaping too much praise on Jaylon Smith, but then you are telling us that 2 guys who have never played a down of college football are elite. Doesn’t make sense IMHO.
* Day – I think he’s going to a lot better than people are giving him credit for. But he’s not elite yet and I don’t expect him to be elite this next year. But he’s got the game to be an outstanding college football player, no doubt.
* Ishaq – C’mon, that’s another stretch. High school, sure he was elite, but so was Aaron Lynch, who you’ve been downplaying. Well Lynch did about as much in his freshman year than Ishaq has done in 2 years. He’s got the talent but does he have the fire in the belly? Even his dad is frustrated with his play. Elite players are elite because of their production, not because of their potential or because what they did on the previous level.
* Hounshell – Again, not elite. No production to prove it yet. Some good minutes as a freshman, but not elite minutes.

I'm just saying, nobody ever has 8 elite DL...not LSU, not FL, not Bama, and certainly not ND. It's not a knock on ND, it's just nobody gets that 8 elite players at 3-4 positions on the same team. Put it this way: an elite player is one where opposing fans would look at and say, yup, that dude's elite. Most of those guys on the last don't pass that test for me...

Edit: Just saw your last post after I posted this.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Look, don’t take this personally and let’s not turn this into a you-vs.-me thing again. But I have to say I respectfully disagree. I look at this list of ND players and say only the most fervent of fervent ND fans would look at most of these players as elite. What is your definition of elite?? I think of it as being the best of the best, 1st and 2nd team AA or 1st or 2nd round draft picks, guys like Tyler Eifert, Michael Floyd, Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate and Manti Te’o. Webster’s defines elite as:

* Nix and Tuitt, no doubt. Shembo...very good but not elite IMO, but he made incredible strides last year, no doubt.
* I don’t see how Tony Springman (despite your inside sources saying he’s making great strides) can be elite when he had 11 total tackles last year. That’s not elite by any standard.
* Kona Schwenke is NOT elite, by the mere fact that a guy with 11 tackles passed him on the depth chart, and he’s going into his senior year with 7 tackles in his career.
* Jarron Jones hasn’t played a down of college football. Neither has EV (who I think will be elite). You caution us about heaping too much praise on Jaylon Smith, but then you are telling us that 2 guys who have never played a down of college football are elite. Doesn’t make sense IMHO.
* Day – I think he’s going to a lot better than people are giving him credit for. But he’s not elite yet and I don’t expect him to be elite this next year. But he’s got the game to be an outstanding college football player, no doubt.
* Ishaq – C’mon, that’s another stretch. High school, sure he was elite, but so was Aaron Lynch, who you’ve been downplaying. Well Lynch did about as much in his freshman year than Ishaq has done in 2 years. He’s got the talent but does he have the fire in the belly? Even his dad is frustrated with his play. Elite players are elite because of their production, not because of their potential or because what they did on the previous level.
* Hounshell – Again, not elite. No production to prove it yet. Some good minutes as a freshman, but not elite minutes.

I'm just saying, nobody ever has 8 elite DL...not LSU, not FL, not Bama, and certainly not ND. It's not a knock on ND, it's just nobody gets that 8 elite players at 3-4 positions on the same team.

Edit: Just saw your last post after I posted this.

Thank you!

Here was my original post that started my list off, and I should have repeated and emphasized it in my list post:

I will bet, with the presser, and a few things I have heard, that this year's d-line buries last years in terms of performance. Louis and Sheldon are going to be impossible to handle, and no one will see Stephon or Prince. They will just be there yesterday, the day before they started; that fast. Add Jarron, Ishaq, Springman, Utupo, Houndshell, and Stocton and I think we are going to have close to a dozen that can play, eight elite.

My intent was to show long term prospects; here and now I agree with you absolutely. I have a very strong feeling that the next level is about to click with a bunch of people. I think Kelly strongly alluded to that in the presser when he said he had great teams with really good players (everywhere) as well as great teams with some great players.

So if you want to read this as I think we will have more guys in the top eschelon, that's good. (And remember, my original group included CAT as well as DL for accuracy sake!)

Of course the first kink in my hypothesis is they have to show up for them to be any good at all; anybody have any more info on Kona being AWOL?

Sláinte! Agus Síochána!