Biden Presidency

ulukinatme

Carr for QB 2025!
Messages
31,518
Reaction score
17,392
Ok - right here, this is where you said you couldn't care less about the deficit.

Ha, fair, I did say that a week ago in another thread. I think context is important though. You said Republicans don't care about the deficit. That's probably true, but I also said the government doesn't really care about the deficit either. Again, they've run a deficit basically every year for over 50 years. There's not really any repercussions when they do, and it'll continue for the foreseeable future. Complaining about the deficit is like complaining about the heat in summer. It's going to happen, and there's not a lot you can do to stop it. I'd LIKE there to be something done about the deficit, but I'm realistic too.

I don't have time to touch the rest right now, gotta head to football practice.
 

TorontoGold

Mr. Dumb Moron
Messages
7,366
Reaction score
5,714
Ha, fair, I did say that a week ago in another thread. I think context is important though. You said Republicans don't care about the deficit. That's probably true, but I also said the government doesn't really care about the deficit either. Again, they've run a deficit basically every year for over 50 years. There's not really any repercussions when they do, and it'll continue for the foreseeable future. Complaining about the deficit is like complaining about the heat in summer. It's going to happen, and there's not a lot you can do to stop it. I'd LIKE there to be something done about the deficit, but I'm realistic too.

I don't have time to touch the rest right now, gotta head to football practice.
I said "If you care about the deficit you would never vote republican". Republican's claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility but are demonstrably worse for the economy and the deficit. For anyone fiscally conservative, the GOP is not the choice.

I am very much in favor of deficit spending btw.
 

drayer54

Well-known member
Messages
8,402
Reaction score
5,823
Tax revenues, what's your point?
Just making sure my understanding that the debt just gets transferred to everyone who didn’t agree to it isn’t flawed. We may as well pay off vehicle loans and credit cards while we’re at it.
 

TorontoGold

Mr. Dumb Moron
Messages
7,366
Reaction score
5,714
Just making sure my understanding that the debt just gets transferred to everyone who didn’t agree to it isn’t flawed. We may as well pay off vehicle loans and credit cards while we’re at it.
Exactly! That's exactly the same. Perfect analogy.

I would love to see the battle between - staunch deficit critic (Drayer) vs deficit indifference (Uluk). Surely they disagree with each other.
 

ulukinatme

Carr for QB 2025!
Messages
31,518
Reaction score
17,392
I'm not really indifferent, I think jaded is a better word. I'd like to see the government be fiscally responsible, but at this point in my life I've lost hope that they can do their jobs. I just assume they'll continue to run deficits because it's sadly par for the course now.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,600
Reaction score
20,068
You want to stimulate the economy by paying off a select group of people? Instead of paying off student loans why not just give everyone 18 or over something like $10-15K a piece? Would be more fair, equitable, help out struggling families and stimulate the economy. Those with student loans could apply it towards their loans. How about paying off everyone's mortgages? That would stimulate things even more.
 

drayer54

Well-known member
Messages
8,402
Reaction score
5,823
I'm not really indifferent, I think jaded is a better word. I'd like to see the government be fiscally responsible, but at this point in my life I've lost hope that they can do their jobs. I just assume they'll continue to run deficits because it's sadly par for the course now.
We're like the family that does well, but spends like they do REALLY well. We got some bills, tons of donations to folks who make less, a big ole house with a fresh backsplash, and party boat, and the big ole electric truck to pull it. Nobody wants to stop the party because it won't go over well, and we're just kind of resigned to dying with the debt. Until the repo man shows up or we run out of credit to buy some defense, it will likely continue, and folks just won't care. Sad really.
 

jprue24

Well-known member
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
3,245
You want to stimulate the economy by paying off a select group of people? Instead of paying off student loans why not just give everyone 18 or over something like $10-15K a piece? Would be more fair, equitable, help out struggling families and stimulate the economy. Those with student loans could apply it towards their loans. How about paying off everyone's mortgages? That would stimulate things even more.
Don't threaten me with a good time
 

Jiggafini19Deux

Minister of Delayed Gratification
Messages
13,485
Reaction score
14,219
I just want them to run things financially the way I do in my home, because 330 million people is the same thing as a suburban family of five.
 

TorontoGold

Mr. Dumb Moron
Messages
7,366
Reaction score
5,714
You want to stimulate the economy by paying off a select group of people? Instead of paying off student loans why not just give everyone 18 or over something like $10-15K a piece? Would be more fair, equitable, help out struggling families and stimulate the economy. Those with student loans could apply it towards their loans. How about paying off everyone's mortgages? That would stimulate things even more.
Why not have a UBI anyways? Progressive tax on it so that at a certain threshold it's fully taxed back so those that don't need it won't get it.

Paying off mortgages would be a terrible move, it would be like lowering the corporate tax rate more than the personal tax rate.
 

Blazers46

Adjectives: wise/brilliant/handsome.
Messages
8,107
Reaction score
5,459
See...here it is AGAIN from you guys....you have this backwards.

The prosecutor WAS NOT investigating Burisma. That was part of why Biden said what he said.
Devon Archer says the opposite.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
Messages
8,625
Reaction score
2,731
They don't care or understand how debt works. Economics is not a real thing for them.

LOL - "Econ expert" TorontoGold "Ok let me put this clearer for you - I, a single person, that is 29 years old, making between $130-150K depending on comp structure can not afford to buy a property bigger than 1,000 square feet. "

Can't figure out how to buy a house on a six figure salary but lectures on debt and economy. Stay in Canada forever you genius.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
Messages
8,625
Reaction score
2,731
Why not have a UBI anyways? Progressive tax on it so that at a certain threshold it's fully taxed back so those that don't need it won't get it.

Paying off mortgages would be a terrible move, it would be like lowering the corporate tax rate more than the personal tax rate.

Bernie is that you?
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said we're not good. I just said the US has the largest economy, but we're also not perfect. We're essentially in a recession or heading into one, depending on what economists you ask. We've had the #1 average value of GDP (nominal) for decades, but other countries have made up ground. China has tripled their GDP since 2010 and moved firmly into #2. India has rebounded in the last 10 years and some expect them to grow to $22 trillion in the next two decades. I don't want to model our economy after either of these countries, why would I? That doesn't mean I don't want us to improve, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. I want less spending, less regulation, less taxes. That will help economic growth just fine.

Yes, forgiving student loan debt is the best way to stimulate the economy. We're going to believe that people that can't manage their money or their debt are going to be this big boon. You bail them out they don't learn a lesson, they just end up getting in over their head once more. Yeah, just pay off the loans and screw over all the responsible people that paid theirs off, that will go over real well. There's a reason Biden couldn't deliver on the student loan promise, he knew it was unconstitutional to begin with, but that didn't keep him from pulling the wool over the eyes of young voters.

You assume a lot. I didn't hold a mortgage until the last week of 2010. I sold the property in 2020 and built our next house in 2021 at a fixed rate of 2.5%. Because of my previous equity I'm paying just $1200/month with taxes and insurance included on a $300,000 home that I'll have paid off in 10-13 years now. For reference that's roughly the same value as renting a much smaller home in this area. For a few extra hundred bucks a month I'm saving $60,000+ over the life of the loan and looking at being debt free by the time I turn 50. You also assume I'm not already investing in mutual funds. Could I be making more investing the difference? Maybe, depending on the market conditions. I'll also be able to invest the entire amount I'm putting into my mortgage once it's gone, and I can look at riskier options with less financial responsibility to worry about.

Show me where I said I don't care about the deficit? Once again, I didn't. All I stated was a fact: we've run a deficit every year since 1970 save for 4 years. I don't like it, but I also acknowledge that it's not going to change anytime soon. They should quit overspending. How will they make me pay for their spending? They'll do what they always do, they'll tax me, or they'll steal from other programs like Social Security.

Awesome on you for taking the reigns and controlling your financial future. I'm sure there are bag lunches, prepping your own meals, skipped vacations and a plethora of other sacrifices to make it happen.

Never once has someone I work with regretted paying off their home. If your mortgage (excluding escrow) is $1000/month that is more like $1500/month you need to earn pre-tax to pay it. Vast majority are not itemizing deductions anymore (maybe on new 6% mortgages but not the sub-3% variety) - so you lose the mythical tax savings of mortgage interest deduction.

For young families - that equity is excluded from FAFSA calcs. Pile up a bunch of money in a taxable account and the colleges will expect you to throw most of it at college. Savers are punished. Spenders are rewarded.

Don't take financial advice from a six figure earner who whines about not being able to buy a house. He will whine about the same house costing $1M where he lives. He would make less money and have to associate with rednecks in your undesirable flyover location so don't even suggest he leaves his precious city job. If only he had UBI and student loan forgiveness he could no longer be a victim of his success......
 

SeekNDestroy

Well-known member
Messages
3,338
Reaction score
4,524
LOL - "Econ expert" TorontoGold "Ok let me put this clearer for you - I, a single person, that is 29 years old, making between $130-150K depending on comp structure can not afford to buy a property bigger than 1,000 square feet. "

Can't figure out how to buy a house on a six figure salary but lectures on debt and economy. Stay in Canada forever you genius.
They’re not mutually exclusive, Einstein.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
Messages
8,625
Reaction score
2,731
Government debt had been held up by 30 years of declining interest rates and SS/Medicare running a surplus over the same timeframe. Social Security is bolstered by $2.8T of intergovernmental debt. Deficits elsewhere were largely offset by FICA collections in excess of benefits spent.

Now we have the following factors:
1) SS/Medicare changing from surplus to deficit for the first time in their existence
2) Interest rates rising structurally for the first time in 40 years
3) Government spending kicking into overdrive
4) $30T debt with over half maturing within 3 years
5) Oh the FED - 8.5T balance sheet might be harder to unwind with rising rates so maybe they go the other way and hope nobody notices

So we leveraged the HELOC to YOLO just as interest rates were tripling and our income was declining with our credit cards maxed out. $1.5T of annual interest expense is the trajectory of the debt service. Everyone trying to wish interest rates lower might want to glance at that 30 year treasury that poked over 4.3% today after hanging out just under 3% only twelve months ago. We didn't lock it in like all the smart home buyers sitting on 2.5% mortgages. Nope, had to smoke the ZIRP and max out on short term Treasuries.

Trump sucks b/c he spent too much, got hoodwinked by Fauci (et al), didn't gut the FBI and didn't hang the Clintons in the town square, not because he is a pompous ass. The apparatus revolting instantly on his Ukraine call is indicting to all of DC, not Trump. Anyone denying Biden took money from the Ukraine? I mean that is what he was asking about right? Asking about corruption that was there, and he is the bad guy. Curious.
 

SeekNDestroy

Well-known member
Messages
3,338
Reaction score
4,524
No but Bernie loving and economic literacy are.
Toronto operates in the economic system that exists, as we all do. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t yearn for a different system and absolutely doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know how to navigate the existing economic landscape.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
Messages
8,625
Reaction score
2,731
Toronto operates in the economic system that exists, as we all do. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t yearn for a different system and absolutely doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know how to navigate the existing economic landscape.

Communists say what? Yearning for free shit deserves mocking for the beta loser mentality that it is.
 

NorthDakota

Grandson of Loomis
Messages
15,705
Reaction score
6,006
LOL - "Econ expert" TorontoGold "Ok let me put this clearer for you - I, a single person, that is 29 years old, making between $130-150K depending on comp structure can not afford to buy a property bigger than 1,000 square feet. "

Can't figure out how to buy a house on a six figure salary but lectures on debt and economy. Stay in Canada forever you genius.
A lot of the home ownership issues seem to be about priorities. I presume Toronto can afford more than 1000 square ft. at that salary unless he has insanely poor credit from credit cards or some other substantial debt. Just maybe not in the areas he currently would be content with.

Suburbs exist for multiple reasons, one of those reasons is to allow people to live somewhere owning a home is affordable relative to cities.

If owning a home is a legitimate priority for someone with a good salary and reasonable credit, they'll buy a home somewhere. Most of my friends own homes. Some of them on a teacher's salary (no more than ~$40-50k). Why? They prioritize owning a home. Meanwhile, I light $1100 on fire every month in exchange for a nice apartment.
 

TorontoGold

Mr. Dumb Moron
Messages
7,366
Reaction score
5,714
LOL - "Econ expert" TorontoGold "Ok let me put this clearer for you - I, a single person, that is 29 years old, making between $130-150K depending on comp structure can not afford to buy a property bigger than 1,000 square feet. "

Can't figure out how to buy a house on a six figure salary but lectures on debt and economy. Stay in Canada forever you genius.

You love that eh? The point was that housing affordability is big issue all over NA.
Bernie is that you?


Don't take financial advice from a six figure earner who whines about not being able to buy a house. He will whine about the same house costing $1M where he lives. He would make less money and have to associate with rednecks in your undesirable flyover location so don't even suggest he leaves his precious city job. If only he had UBI and student loan forgiveness he could no longer be a victim of his success......

Didn't whine, stated a fact. Yeah, there's a real bounty of things to do in fly over states.

You know you can advocate for things that don't directly benefit you, right? Your Opioidville victim complex is showing.

Communists say what? Yearning for free shit deserves mocking for the beta loser mentality that it is.

Yeah, I'm a communist lmao.

A lot of the home ownership issues seem to be about priorities. I presume Toronto can afford more than 1000 square ft. at that salary unless he has insanely poor credit from credit cards or some other substantial debt. Just maybe not in the areas he currently would be content with.

Suburbs exist for multiple reasons, one of those reasons is to allow people to live somewhere owning a home is affordable relative to cities.

If owning a home is a legitimate priority for someone with a good salary and reasonable credit, they'll buy a home somewhere. Most of my friends own homes. Some of them on a teacher's salary (no more than ~$40-50k). Why? They prioritize owning a home. Meanwhile, I light $1100 on fire every month in exchange for a nice apartment.

See here, this is a level headed and accurate take. My priorities are not focused on seeing 3XL's mow the lawn tarps off and being stuck behind van moms at the drive through.
 

SeekNDestroy

Well-known member
Messages
3,338
Reaction score
4,524
A lot of the home ownership issues seem to be about priorities. I presume Toronto can afford more than 1000 square ft. at that salary unless he has insanely poor credit from credit cards or some other substantial debt. Just maybe not in the areas he currently would be content with.

Suburbs exist for multiple reasons, one of those reasons is to allow people to live somewhere owning a home is affordable relative to cities.

If owning a home is a legitimate priority for someone with a good salary and reasonable credit, they'll buy a home somewhere. Most of my friends own homes. Some of them on a teacher's salary (no more than ~$40-50k). Why? They prioritize owning a home. Meanwhile, I light $1100 on fire every month in exchange for a nice apartment.
There’s a vast difference between real estate prices in metro Fargo versus metro Toronto, though. (I know you know this, but it needed to be said.)
 

NorthDakota

Grandson of Loomis
Messages
15,705
Reaction score
6,006
There’s a vast difference between real estate prices in metro Fargo versus metro Toronto, though. (I know you know this, but it needed to be said.)
Oh for sure. But Toronto could likely get a very good paying job in Fargo. He might not even need to take a paycut. They have a Microsoft campus, some biotech stuff, and a big accounting firm with several hundred million in annual revenue. Plenty of good jobs there for bean counters.

Again, my point is just that he may not be able to afford the kind of property he wants in the areas he wants. For him that might be a specific part of Toronto. For me, it might be certain parts of Bismarck (Fargo is lame). But the idea he can't buy a home larger than 1000 sq ft with that compensation seems hyperbolic rather than literal.
 

TorontoGold

Mr. Dumb Moron
Messages
7,366
Reaction score
5,714
Oh for sure. But Toronto could likely get a very good paying job in Fargo. He might not even need to take a paycut. They have a Microsoft campus, some biotech stuff, and a big accounting firm with several hundred million in annual revenue. Plenty of good jobs there for bean counters.

Again, my point is just that he may not be able to afford the kind of property he wants in the areas he wants. For him that might be a specific part of Toronto. For me, it might be certain parts of Bismarck (Fargo is lame). But the idea he can't buy a home larger than 1000 sq ft with that compensation seems hyperbolic rather than literal.

I could go 45 min outside of the city and do that. My point that RDU's rage clouded was that it should be a big problem that affordability of purchasing homes in the city on a six figure salary isn't possible that for those less fortunate they're cooked.

It's jokes seeing the boomers lose their minds that restaurants can't find staff and the answer is that "kids are lazy", not that they aren't paying enough for those servers to live within a reasonable range.

You haven't been to the Big Boy drive-thru in Bismarck.

I would rather get a lobotomy lmao.
 

NorthDakota

Grandson of Loomis
Messages
15,705
Reaction score
6,006
I could go 45 min outside of the city and do that. My point that RDU's rage clouded was that it should be a big problem that affordability of purchasing homes in the city on a six figure salary isn't possible that for those less fortunate they're cooked.

It's jokes seeing the boomers lose their minds that restaurants can't find staff and the answer is that "kids are lazy", not that they aren't paying enough for those servers to live within a reasonable range.



I would rather get a lobotomy lmao.
Degrassi led me to believe a single mom with no education in her early 30's could afford a row house in metro Toronto!
 
Top