Biden Presidency

[dublinirish]

Love when folks come as anti immigrat workers AND against raising the minimum wage.

 

[RDU Irish]

While I'm not bound to or lying in the pure ideological corner of my preferred side and reserve the right to disagree with them- I'm mainly here for the hypocrisy and policy failures of Joe Biden. So far he is delivering ahead of schedule.

Can't wait for $5 gas - northerners gonna love heating their homes at 3x the price and brownouts in south when its cloudy and windless. Oh the joys of "progress". At least the poor can look at their $15 minimum wage until their entry level jobs get automated.

 

[Blazers46]

Can't wait for $5 gas - northerners gonna love heating their homes at 3x the price and brownouts in south when its cloudy and windless. Oh the joys of "progress". At least the poor can look at their $15 minimum wage until their entry level jobs get automated.

The minimum wage scares me. And I wish people would look at at this way. Our minimum got bumped up to 10.50 this year. Instead of crying about it we flipped how we thought about employees. Instead of 8 employees at $10.50 we have only 3 employees at $14. They do fantastic. We ask a little more of them, therefore we pay more. If the federal minimum went to $15 we would be back where we started with “do the minimum” minimum wage employees again. It’s been glorious with just 3 staff. Sure I “work” a little more but so what. In order to get better employees would I have to pay $18 or $19? That’s insane for retail and I’d probably go down to 2 employees.

 

[RDU Irish]

Love when folks come as anti immigrat workers AND against raising the minimum wage.

You are allowed to dish out work visas instead of citizenship you know. Nice little grey area that is completely ignored by Dems. Never a push to open that up, always a citizenship push. Tall wall with a big door. Trump pushed Rs in the right direction on immigration if you put your TDS glasses down for a second. You have to control your borders and can't reward illegal behavior.

Rs are traditionally scared to go near the subject and have never even tried to address the clusterfvck that is US immigration policy. It is source of immense frustration amongst many who are forced to vote for them because the alternative is worse. Anything they say on the subject is lip service, they don't have the balls to actually vote for any real action on immigration.

1) control borders, this is and always will be step one that all others become irrelevant if not accomplished
2) resident status for current illegals - citizen path for some, not all
3) pass out visas like candy - very easy to enter to work
4) Fix anchor baby stupidity
5) Increase citizenship intake, unfvck that process making it less expensive and more efficient so people have faith in the process

 

[BilboBaggins]

Unaccompanied children come to our border every day, so this isn't different than what happened under Trump or Obama.

I don't think anyone is saying that. You are the one saying the Biden Administration is being hypocritical...but all that's happening here is that you're being intentionally ignorant of the fact that people were upset with the way the Trump Administration handled illegal immigrants/asylum seekers.

Are we to assume now with Trump out of office and Biden in, thousands of migrants in "overflow facilities" (not camps or detention centers) will be treated like royalty in facilities similar to a 4 star hotel?

Yeah man, because it's either sleeping on dirt or a Hilton.

You could be an AM Radio producer with the way you frame this stuff.

Does anyone ever ask whether any country in the world has the infrastructure/ finances/ staffing to bring in thousands of migrants on a daily basis? What would Canada do if 10,000 American migrants showed up at the border requesting shelter, food, clothing, and healthcare?

Does anyone in your world ask to hear economists' views on the complicated pros and cons of immigration?

Open border + welfare state = collapse.

1) We don't have an "open border," save that for your AM Radio show.
2) We don't have a "welfare state" either.
3) Economists really aren't on board with the "collapse" scare tactic. I'd argue common sense isn't either.

All that is before we get to the Covid issue which is another wild card thrown in the mix here.

Which if you read the article you'd see that COVID-19 is the reason they needed to open the additional space so people could space out.

 

[BilboBaggins]

You are allowed to dish out work visas instead of citizenship you know. Nice little grey area that is completely ignored by Dems. Never a push to open that up, always a citizenship push. Tall wall with a big door. Trump pushed Rs in the right direction on immigration if you put your TDS glasses down for a second. You have to control your borders and can't reward illegal behavior.

Rs are traditionally scared to go near the subject and have never even tried to address the clusterfvck that is US immigration policy. It is source of immense frustration amongst many who are forced to vote for them because the alternative is worse. Anything they say on the subject is lip service, they don't have the balls to actually vote for any real action on immigration.

1) control borders, this is and always will be step one that all others become irrelevant if not accomplished
2) resident status for current illegals - citizen path for some, not all
3) pass out visas like candy - very easy to enter to work
4) Fix anchor baby stupidity
5) Increase citizenship intake, unfvck that process making it less expensive and more efficient so people have faith in the process

WRONG.

The US has a per-country work visa limit, 7% of green cards from any one country. It's been that way since the mid-1960s.

Two US senators, one Republican and the other Democrat, have a plan to reduce green card waiting time which in the case of Indians may stretch to a mind-boggling 195 years thanks to country caps.

Under the current rules, there is an annual per country green card cap of 7% for all nations big or small, from the tiny Nepal to India with a population of 1.35 billion, leading to a huge backlog for Indians.

Senate Democratic whip Dick Durbin and Republican senator Mike Lee want to change that by tweaking the Fairness for High Skilled Immigrants Act (S.386) passed by the House in July last year to eliminate the cap on permanent residency permits.

https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2020/07/23/indians-face-a-195-year-wait-for-green-cards-441854/

That's literally the biggest problem with US immigration and I've explained it about 900 times on IE over the last decade.

Prospective work-visa immigrants from large countries have an abnormally long visa line due to this per-country quota. An applicant from, say, San Marino, has 100000x easier path to a work visa than an applicant from Mexico or India.

Now if I'd put my conspiracy hat on I'd guess that Caesar Chavez' efforts to organize migrant labor in he 1960s directly lead to corporations concocting a strategy to make it harder if not impossible for Mexican labor to enter the country legally....therefore making them illegal immigrants and unable to officially organize for better wages and working conditions. Follow the money.

This is now the 901st time I've laid this out on IE.

Never a push to open that up

From December...

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ry-limit-on-h-1b-work-visas/story/423873.html

The US Senate has unanimously passed a bill that eliminates the per-country numerical limitation for employment-based immigrant visas and raises it for family-based visas, a legislation that will hugely benefit hundreds of thousands of Indian professionals in America who have been waiting for years to get their green cards.

 

[RDU Irish]

The minimum wage scares me. And I wish people would look at at this way. Our minimum got bumped up to 10.50 this year. Instead of crying about it we flipped how we thought about employees. Instead of 8 employees at $10.50 we have only 3 employees at $14. They do fantastic. We ask a little more of them, therefore we pay more. If the federal minimum went to $15 we would be back where we started with “do the minimum” minimum wage employees again. It’s been glorious with just 3 staff. Sure I “work” a little more but so what. In order to get better employees would I have to pay $18 or $19? That’s insane for retail and I’d probably go down to 2 employees.

Two people working 60 hours a week would be a minimum six figure household. That is insane. Minimum wage proponents make my head hurt.

 

[RDU Irish]

WRONG.

The US has a per-country work visa limit, 7% of green cards from any one country. It's been that way since the mid-1960s.



https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2020/07/23/indians-face-a-195-year-wait-for-green-cards-441854/

That's literally the biggest problem with US immigration and I've explained it about 900 times on IE over the last decade.

Prospective work-visa immigrants from large countries have an abnormally long visa line due to this per-country quota. An applicant from, say, San Marino, has 100000x easier path to a work visa than an applicant from Mexico or India.

Now if I'd put my conspiracy hat on I'd guess that Caesar Chavez' efforts to organize migrant labor in he 1960s directly lead to corporations concocting a strategy to make it harder if not impossible for Mexican labor to enter the country legally....therefore making them illegal immigrants and unable to officially organize for better wages and working conditions. Follow the money.

This is not the 901st time I've laid this out on IE.

And you admit you

From December...

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ry-limit-on-h-1b-work-visas/story/423873.html

Hold on to your hat - I agree with you. The antiquated policies are beyond retarded and exacerbate the illegal immigration policy. It's like setting a 5 mph speed limit on a Montana Interstate. 99.9% of people will scoff at it and drive 90.

It seems so basic to me that it hurts my brain to contemplate how, in SIXTY years congress can't even try to fix it. Amnesty or bust - just a damn lightning rod issue both sides use to stir up their bases and demonize the others when there is so much wide open room for marginal improvements they not just ignore but run away from it like the plague.

Explained 901 times in your 201 posts? Ok Buster.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Hold on to your hat - I agree with you. The antiquated policies are beyond retarded and exacerbate the illegal immigration policy. It's like setting a 5 mph speed limit on a Montana Interstate. 99.9% of people will scoff at it and drive 90.

It seems so basic to me that it hurts my brain to contemplate how, in SIXTY years congress can't even try to fix it. Amnesty or bust - just a damn lightning rod issue both sides use to stir up their bases and demonize the others when there is so much wide open room for marginal improvements they not just ignore but run away from it like the plague.

Because it works for monied interests. Labor gets in the country because it's frankly impossible to police a border like some assume we can. Labor can't organize so wages are suppressed. It works for labor because it's still better than Mexico since...it's not Mexico. It works for politicians because they can antagonize the takers and let people talk about the impending "collapse".

You'll know Congress is serious about stopping illegal immigration when they throw some corporate leaders in jail for hiring illegal immigrants. Until then it's all political theater and we'll "create some jobs" by building an ineffective wall.

Explained 901 times in your 201 posts? Ok Buster.

Hey that's 10,000 + 201 damnit

 

[NorthDakota]

Love when folks come as anti immigrat workers AND against raising the minimum wage.

Ehhe. Depends, are you one of those goofy $15/hr zealots or? Minimum wage is tricky. A 15 year old kid working at the local tastee freeze doesn't deserve $15/hr.

When I got my first job in....2007, at the Dairy Queen, I got $5.85/hr. Minimum wage at the time. The places around town have signs up now advertising they'll pay $14/hr starting out now, though minimum wage is $7.25. I cleaned, took orders, and made the best blizzard in town (extra topping babyyy), but I wasn't worth much more than what I was paid.

I'm not a fan of the national minimum wage. I'm sure economists have all sorts of powerful arguments for and against it. Just not really sure why a minimum wage employee in Cando, North Dakota (pop ~1000) (avg home value: $90K, roughly $100K below state average) should be mandated to get the same wage as a minimum wage employee in San Fran or Manhattan where two-bedroom apartments typically are $3-4k (pre-pandemic), and purchasing an apartment or home will cost you absurd amounts of money.

Seems to me the market does a decent job with wages. Out in the oil patch when I was in high school, their McDonald's were giving signing bonuses and like $15/hr. That was back in like 2009.

If we are going to have a minimum wage, ii think it should be geared towards areas where the cost of living is lower rather than higher, otherwise you might wreck businesses operating in low income areas. I dont think there is anything preventing cities and states from implementing their own minimum wages and I'm pretty sure some have.

A living wage varies from county to county, or even town to town within a county, I'm very reluctant to have some national wage mandated by people in Congress when states, counties, and municipalities are probably better equipped to figure out the right balance.

With immigration, I have no problem with them making things easier on folks to come. I understand that our friends South of the border enjoy coming up here to do work that citizens in the states down there are less willing to do. We even get some up here that work in the ag industry.

I do have an issue when people don't follow the rules. I don't want coming illegally to be rewarded. This shit has been going on for so long though. Not an easy situation to get sorted out.

The only idea I have (its probably terrible) would be to give some sort of amnesty for some period of time and create some sort of work permit system at state and federal levels so that we can at least sorta keep track of who is here. Give the folks here an opportunity to fix their status.

The other thing (that will never happen) I'd like to see is get rid of natural born citizens. If your parents are here on vacation or illegally and you are born here, I don't think you should be an American citizen. If they are living here legally, welcome to the gang. I'm assuming that'll make it easier for parents to obtain more permanent status as well?

At the end of the day, it might even serve my political goals. Hispanics/Latinos(whatever term is in vogue rn) tend to be pretty conservative and religious people. They are coming here no matter what we do, so might as well try to figure out a way to conform national policy to the reality on the ground.

Rant against national increase to minimum wage and stupid thoughts on illegal immigration over.

 

[TorontoGold]

Ehhe. Depends, are you one of those goofy $15/hr zealots or? Minimum wage is tricky. A 15 year old kid working at the local tastee freeze doesn't deserve $15/hr.

When I got my first job in....2007, at the Dairy Queen, I got $5.85/hr. Minimum wage at the time. The places around town have signs up now advertising they'll pay $14/hr starting out now, though minimum wage is $7.25. I cleaned, took orders, and made the best blizzard in town (extra topping babyyy), but I wasn't worth much more than what I was paid.

I'm not a fan of the national minimum wage. I'm sure economists have all sorts of powerful arguments for and against it. Just not really sure why a minimum wage employee in Cando, North Dakota (pop ~1000) (avg home value: $90K, roughly $100K below state average) should be mandated to get the same wage as a minimum wage employee in San Fran or Manhattan where two-bedroom apartments typically are $3-4k (pre-pandemic), and purchasing an apartment or home will cost you absurd amounts of money.

Seems to me the market does a decent job with wages. Out in the oil patch when I was in high school, their McDonald's were giving signing bonuses and like $15/hr. That was back in like 2009.

If we are going to have a minimum wage, ii think it should be geared towards areas where the cost of living is lower rather than higher, otherwise you might wreck businesses operating in low income areas. I dont think there is anything preventing cities and states from implementing their own minimum wages and I'm pretty sure some have.

A living wage varies from county to county, or even town to town within a county, I'm very reluctant to have some national wage mandated by people in Congress when states, counties, and municipalities are probably better equipped to figure out the right balance.

With immigration, I have no problem with them making things easier on folks to come. I understand that our friends South of the border enjoy coming up here to do work that citizens in the states down there are less willing to do. We even get some up here that work in the ag industry.

I do have an issue when people don't follow the rules. I don't want coming illegally to be rewarded. This shit has been going on for so long though. Not an easy situation to get sorted out.

The only idea I have (its probably terrible) would be to give some sort of amnesty for some period of time and create some sort of work permit system at state and federal levels so that we can at least sorta keep track of who is here. Give the folks here an opportunity to fix their status.

The other thing (that will never happen) I'd like to see is get rid of natural born citizens. If your parents are here on vacation or illegally and you are born here, I don't think you should be an American citizen. If they are living here legally, welcome to the gang. I'm assuming that'll make it easier for parents to obtain more permanent status as well?

At the end of the day, it might even serve my political goals. Hispanics/Latinos(whatever term is in vogue rn) tend to be pretty conservative and religious people. They are coming here no matter what we do, so might as well try to figure out a way to conform national policy to the reality on the ground.

Rant against national increase to minimum wage and stupid thoughts on illegal immigration over.

You're old af. Also, those rent figures for Manhattan and San Fran are a lot lower than what get's advertised up here. We're told to be lucky we only pay $2,500 for a one bed room apartment in TO.

In terms of minimum wages an extremely simplified take - if you peg it to the state's CPI, you can help alleviate any concerns that powerhouse states like Texas/NY/CA are propping up costs in welfare states like NM that would cause the minimum wage hike to "destroy" businesses. Think Whiskey has probably got like 4 articles ready on this (although he doesn't understand the economy )

 

[drayer54]

You could be an AM Radio producer with the way you frame this stuff.

Does anyone in your world ask to hear economists' views on the complicated pros and cons of immigration?

1) We don't have an "open border," save that for your AM Radio show.
.

Accusing those with views you don't care for of being tied to AM radio is rude and outdated. We're on podcasts now.

Also- You can have your masterclass from Paul Krugman and continue to assume that the rest of us just spew truck stop gossip.

 

[Irish#1]

1) We don't have an "open border," save that for your AM Radio show.

What we have is the equivalent of a Dutch door on a house with only the bottom closed.

Because it works for monied interests. Labor gets in the country because it's frankly impossible to police a border like some assume we can.

Maybe we shouldn't have put a halt on building the additional walls.

Ehhe. Depends, are you one of those goofy $15/hr zealots or? Minimum wage is tricky. A 15 year old kid working at the local tastee freeze doesn't deserve $15/hr.

When I got my first job in....2007, at the Dairy Queen, I got $5.85/hr.

My first job was Dairy Queen at $1.15 an hour! Increase minimum wage and small businesses will decrease their work staff to compensate. The alternatives are to increase prices and risk losing business or take less profit, but many small businesses don't make much profit in the first place.

What's everyone's thoughts on giving those that come across the border something like a relief check similar to the Covid payment so they can get established?

 

[BilboBaggins]

Accusing those with views you don't care for of being tied to AM radio is rude and outdated. We're on podcasts now.

Stop giving his takes credit by calling them "views" when they are intentionally obfuscating a discussion like an AM radio producer would.

Also- You can have your masterclass from Paul Krugman and continue to assume that the rest of us just spew truck stop gossip.

It's Paul Krugman vs. the world.....or the overwhelming majority of economists and thinktanks, including conservative entities like CATO, who discuss the pros and cons of immigration with more context than "open borders + welfare state = collapse."

You can't go around spouting worn-out bullshit talking points and hide behind "other views" lol immigration is complicated AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MADE SOME GOOD CHANGES but these conversations don't get anywhere because some posters here paint everything with Rush Limbaugh glasses on.

 

[BilboBaggins]

What we have is the equivalent of a Dutch door on a house with only the bottom closed.

No what we have is net-negative Mexican immigration (for over a decade) while Asian/other immigrants just overstay their visas.

Maybe we shouldn't have put a halt on building the additional walls.

It might be more productive to recognize that illegal immigration is coming via the air and that walls don't work.

 

[NorthDakota]

You're old af. Also, those rent figures for Manhattan and San Fran are a lot lower than what get's advertised up here. We're told to be lucky we only pay $2,500 for a one bed room apartment in TO.

In terms of minimum wages an extremely simplified take - if you peg it to the state's CPI, you can help alleviate any concerns that powerhouse states like Texas/NY/CA are propping up costs in welfare states like NM that would cause the minimum wage hike to "destroy" businesses. Think Whiskey has probably got like 4 articles ready on this (although he doesn't understand the economy )

My knees and back remind me every day how old I am.

Prices in NYC are goofy. Pre-pandemic, a cheap studio would run about 2K. A one bedroom probably 2.5K. Two beds, 2.5-3K. For cheap ones...keep in mind. San Fran might be different, not sure on that

Now prices for studios have dropped a lot. 1 and 2 bedrooms can be had for 2K. I think a lot of people left the city as their leases expired and are not coming back until their work is no longer remote, or perhaps they were going to leave at some point soon anyway and this just expedited their plans. NY probably isn't getting many folks moving in now, at least until the city is open for business, so in the meantime prices go way down.

If they want to use state CPI figures, I would not be nearly as opposed.

 

[RDU Irish]

Because it works for monied interests. Labor gets in the country because it's frankly impossible to police a border like some assume we can. Labor can't organize so wages are suppressed. It works for labor because it's still better than Mexico since...it's not Mexico. It works for politicians because they can antagonize the takers and let people talk about the impending "collapse".

You'll know Congress is serious about stopping illegal immigration when they throw some corporate leaders in jail for hiring illegal immigrants. Until then it's all political theater and we'll "create some jobs" by building an ineffective wall.



Hey that's 10,000 + 201 damnit

It will be small town restaurants closed for hiring illegals or non-grata politicians or conservative moguls with an illegal nanny getting thrown in jail. Nancy Pelosi and Mitt Romney will never be worried about who is mowing their lawn or painting their large fence keeping out the unwashed masses - those servants will be protected from ICE and paid below minimum wage in cash.

 

[TorontoGold]

My knees and back remind me every day how old I am.

Prices in NYC are goofy. Pre-pandemic, a cheap studio would run about 2K. A one bedroom probably 2.5K. Two beds, 2.5-3K. For cheap ones...keep in mind. San Fran might be different, not sure on that

Now prices for studios have dropped a lot. 1 and 2 bedrooms can be had for 2K. I think a lot of people left the city as their leases expired and are not coming back until their work is no longer remote, or perhaps they were going to leave at some point soon anyway and this just expedited their plans. NY probably isn't getting many folks moving in now, at least until the city is open for business, so in the meantime prices go way down.

If they want to use state CPI figures, I would not be nearly as opposed.

I think CPI figures would be best, because otherwise it's just one side giving arbitrary numbers that are bound to be politicized in one way or another. People should be most concerned about spending their money on the goods in the CPI, so if the CPI goes up the min wage should follow it.

 

[RDU Irish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A02ciYFzTHw

LOL - Minimum wage is racist. It is a historical fact.

 

[BilboBaggins]

It will be small town restaurants closed for hiring illegals or non-grata politicians or conservative moguls with an illegal nanny getting thrown in jail. Nancy Pelosi and Mitt Romney will never be worried about who is mowing their lawn or painting their large fence keeping out the unwashed masses - those servants will be protected from ICE and paid below minimum wage in cash.

Or the chicken processing facilities with hundreds. Just saying, when white collar employers get the jail sentences then I'll believe the government actually cares about stopping illegal immigration.

 

[BilboBaggins]

If the Dow closes where it's at today, it'll a record high.

Joe Biden = America's greatest economic President?

 

[NorthDakota]

Joe Biden is America's greatest economic President.

FIFY

 

[IrishRazor82]

Federal govt thinking they need to update the minimum wage for all 50 states is the dumbest.

So no surprise here.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Sign me up for a national mimimum wage of $10.00.

 

[drayer54]

You're old af. Also, those rent figures for Manhattan and San Fran are a lot lower than what get's advertised up here. We're told to be lucky we only pay $2,500 for a one bed room apartment in TO.

In terms of minimum wages an extremely simplified take - if you peg it to the state's CPI, you can help alleviate any concerns that powerhouse states like Texas/NY/CA are propping up costs in welfare states like NM that would cause the minimum wage hike to "destroy" businesses. Think Whiskey has probably got like 4 articles ready on this (although he doesn't understand the economy )

I had to read this twice but I think we agree. What makes sense in NY doesn't always make sense in NM. State CPI set it and forget it.

I always like giving states more control and moving it away from DC.

 

[TorontoGold]

I had to read this twice but I think we agree. What makes sense in NY doesn't always make sense in NM. State CPI set it and forget it.

I always like giving states more control and moving it away from DC.

100%, I think the goal should be to get to a place where no matter the state someone who's working 50 hours a week isn't completely screwed. No magic wand for this but there needs to be a metric that it gets pegged to so that in 20 years no one looks back goes "Why hasn't the minimum wage changed?"

 

[drayer54]

100%, I think the goal should be to get to a place where no matter the state someone who's working 50 hours a week isn't completely screwed. No magic wand for this but there needs to be a metric that it gets pegged to so that in 20 years no one looks back goes "Why hasn't the minimum wage changed?"

The minimum wage is a floor. The market has generally moved ahead of minimum wage anyways. Most of the now hiring signs I see here in Indiana are 10-15/hr anyways.

 

[ab2cmiller]

The minimum wage is a floor. The market has generally moved ahead of minimum wage anyways. Most of the now hiring signs I see here in Indiana are 10-15/hr anyways.

Agreed. You could probably change minimum wage to $10 and it wouldn't really change much. Change it to $15 and you would likely see elimination of some jobs from the market as businesses try to get by with less workers.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

IDK about anywhere else but in Sac we have the $7.25 minimum wage but waiters and waitresses make only$2.50 per hour plus tips.

 

[NorthDakota]

IDK about anywhere else but in Sac we have the $7.25 minimum wage but waiters and waitresses make only$2.50 per hour plus tips.

Same deal here.