Baseball Trade Deadline

[gkIrish]

I don't think it's that they can't re-sign him. They surely can. I just don't think they want to commit to the five year contract he appears to be wanting.

Yeah but this is why I hate the Red Sox organization and most of their fans. They catch lightning in a bottle last year and win the championship. They have essentially the same exact team this year minus Ellsbury and are in last place. They gave up about 50 games into the season. Now there is a firesale only ONE season after winning it all. For a team with those ticket prices, how can you be in rebuilding mode every other year. It's stupid and I wouldn't stand for it as a fan. But most of their fans are okay with it.

 

[BobbyMac]

Cespedes' contract kicks into $10M+ after this season. Currently, he's making $3.2M.

I don't know what league you're looking at. That will make him the 8th highest paid left fielder in baseball. Guys like Ryan Trout, Ryan Ludwick and Bryce Harper will all make far less next year. Do you put Cespedes on that level? I certainly don't. There are only 8 left fielders in baseball making over $10M a year. Next year, Cespedes will be one of them. That's what I mean. You can easily replace his production for far less money.

2015 MLB Top Total Salaries - Left Field

Gotta call you on this one Wolly...

I have no idea about Ludwick's or Bryce Harper's contract structures but you are playing with numbers in an attempt to win an argument by throwing Trout's contract in to the mix. He's guaranteed @ $150M through 2020... even though he receives just $1M this year and $5M. Totally not applicable to compare him to Cespedes.

You are short changing Cespedes too. Kid was on track for a 40 5 25 100 .256 season in that park which is obviously not a HR park. He's a $10M player in the league.

The A's weren't gonna resign him next year because he'll get $13M+ over 4 years. Teams with smaller parks are gonna pay him. Watch.

So the A's are all in this year and they should just give them the trophy right now. There pitching is off the charts... their middle relief is as good as the starters.

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[T Town Tommy]

Yeah but this is why I hate the Red Sox organization and most of their fans. They catch lightning in a bottle last year and win the championship. They have essentially the same exact team this year minus Ellsbury and are in last place. They gave up about 50 games into the season. Now there is a firesale only ONE season after winning it all. For a team with those ticket prices, how can you be in rebuilding mode every other year. It's stupid and I wouldn't stand for it as a fan. But most of their fans are okay with it.

It does seem to be feast or famine with the Sox lately. IIRC. they finish last in the division two years ago and then win it all last year. Must be tough being a Sox fan even though they have won three WS in the last 8-10 years. But yeah... if I was paying that much for tickets, I would expect more from them that they gave this year.

 

[gkIrish]

It does seem to be feast or famine with the Sox lately. IIRC. they finish last in the division two years ago and then win it all last year. Must be tough being a Sox fan even though they have won three WS in the last 8-10 years. But yeah... if I was paying that much for tickets, I would expect more from them that they gave this year.

The MLB is the one league where I can't stand watching a bad team. It's not like the NFL or NBA where a bad season produces a highly valuable draft pick. And there are 162 games in the MLB with nothing else to watch on TV most days. If the Yankees were bad every other year I would go crazy and lose all interest in the sport.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm sorry. I can't get beyond this. This is only a "fact" if the season ended today. He has 66 career home runs in 2 2/3 seasons, not 3 full seasons. Like I said, he hit 23 as a rookie and 26 last year. Right now, he's projected for 26 again this year, with a push likely coming from going from a large stadium to a tiny one. After his first 3 seasons in the league, he's going to be a guy averaging 25 HRs and 85-90 RBIs. Not to mention his arm. I'll pay $10 million a year for that regardless of his average.

He is not guaranteed those HR's that you are giving him, and I never implied that I was assuming a total for this year. Not sure what you're not getting. Like I showed with list of what left fielders make in the league, he will be grossly overpaid for a LF that hits less than 30 HR's a year. He'll make more than Ryan Trout for god sakes. If you are okay with your team spending that kind of cash on that type of player, then cool. I don't want the Cardinals to do that, nor would they.

It's a harmless team in the sense that they're not going to re-sign Lester. Its not like they're trading him to another big-market where he's going to fall in love with the place and re-sign. He's going to Oakland for 2 months, and that is it.

Again, you don't know that. What if they win the WS? Furthermore, it is a certainty that he will pitch in the playoffs now. Which can't be a good thing in suppressing his value in the FA market next season. If he blows up and heads into the FA market with a ring, then the Sox cost themselves millions, if he was willing to go back to them... which by no means is a certainty like you imply.

And I wouldn't say he "won" us a World Series. He played terribly actually.

2013 playoff stats: 7-42. .167 average. 1 HR and 5 RBIs. Clutch.

Yeah... his game four HR didn't help you guys win at all... You sound like a typical Sox fan. I'll just post the quote below on why Gomes is clutch. If you can't get that, then I can't help you.

In high-leverage situations as defined by Baseball Reference, Gomes hit .290 with five home runs, 23 RBI and a .398 OBP, a drastic difference from his performance in medium-leverage and low-leverage situations where he hit .230 and .238 respectively. To put this Gomes' high leverage performance in 2013 in perspective, David Ortiz hit .267 with five home runs, 36 RBI and a .371 OBP in high-leverage situations last year (For his career, Ortiz has hit .290 with a .388 OBP in high leverage situations). Interestingly enough, Gomes has hit .230 in high-leverage situations throughout his career, so one could probably expect to see some resemblance of a drop off in Gomes' performance this year.

Another statistic where Gomes performed significantly better in 2013 than his career average was in "clutch situations." Gomes hit .306 with a .444 OBP with one homer and 14 RBI in 45 plate appearances when there were two outs and runners in scoring position. For his career, Gomes has hit .266/.417/.429 with two outs and RISP. Gomes also hit five of his 13 home runs and knocked in 22 runs when the team was within run. Gomes also performed extremely well in the ninth inning last year, hitting .316 with a .453 OBP, four homers and eight RBI, which was significantly better than his career .225/.328/.374 performance in the ninth inning.

Is Jonny Gomes really clutch? - Over the Monster

 

[BobbyMac]

Gotta call you on this one Wolly...

I have no idea about Ludwick's or Bryce Harper's contract structures but you are playing with numbers in an attempt to win an argument by throwing Trout's contract in to the mix. He's guaranteed @ $150M through 2020... even though he receives just $1M this year and $5M. Totally not applicable to compare him to Cespedes.

You are short changing Cespedes too. Kid was on track for a 40 5 25 100 .256 season in that park which is obviously not a HR park. He's a $10M player in the league.

The A's weren't gonna resign him next year because he'll get $13M+ over 4 years. Teams with smaller parks are gonna pay him. Watch.

So the A's are all in this year and they should just give them the trophy right now. There pitching is off the charts... their middle relief is as good as the starters.

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So I looked at Ludwick's and Harper's numbers.... Cespedes has better numbers than Harper and Harper is still on his rookie contract not that it really matters.... Cespedes has out played him. Ludwick is 35 and on a 2 year run of calling it quits statistically.

Those were 3 really bad examples you used.

Verdict: Cespedes worth the $10M. *gavel drops* Next case.

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[woolybug25]

So I looked at Ludwick's and Harper's numbers.... Cespedes has better numbers than Harper and Harper is still on his rookie contract not that it really matters.... Cespedes has out played him. Ludwick is 35 and on a 2 year run of calling it quits statistically.

Those were 3 really bad examples you used.

Verdict: Cespedes worth the $10M. *gavel drops* Next case.

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So you think Cespedes is better than Harper? haha

First of all, he hasn't outperformed him. He has played over 50 more games that Harper. So he has slightly more hits, but a worse BA. I doubt you will find many people on here that would trade Harper for Cespedes.

So you might want to pick up your gavel and quit quoting your own posts. Go down the list I linked before and tell me that you cant find a ton of players that 1) Play LF 2) have similar stats & 3) make 1/3rd of the money as Cespedes.

 

[irishfan]

He is not guaranteed those HR's that you are giving him, and I never implied that I was assuming a total for this year. Not sure what you're not getting. Like I showed with list of what left fielders make in the league, he will be grossly overpaid for a LF that hits less than 30 HR's a year. He'll make more than Ryan Trout for god sakes. If you are okay with your team spending that kind of cash on that type of player, then cool. I don't want the Cardinals to do that, nor would they.



Again, you don't know that. What if they win the WS? Furthermore, it is a certainty that he will pitch in the playoffs now. Which can't be a good thing in suppressing his value in the FA market next season. If he blows up and heads into the FA market with a ring, then the Sox cost themselves millions, if he was willing to go back to them... which by no means is a certainty like you imply.



Yeah... his game four HR didn't help you guys win at all... You sound like a typical Sox fan. I'll just post the quote below on why Gomes is clutch. If you can't get that, then I can't help you.


Is Jonny Gomes really clutch? - Over the Monster

Then why did you say he has a career average of 22 HRs? His lowest season is 23. ESPN projects him for 26 this year. ESPN is projecting him for 9 over the remainder of the season. You are projected him for 0 by saying that he averages 22 HRs in a career.

And yes, I'm very content with them paying $10 million a year for Cespedes. Like I said, based on projections he will be averaging 25 HRs and 85+ RBIs a year for his first 3 years in the league. There is no salary cap. Boston is a huge market. They can pay him 10 million a year to put up those numbers even if he bats .260. This is why I'm frustrated that they're not re-signing Lester considering he's had no injury problems ever. We can afford to splurge.

Lester is not returning to the As no matter what next year. They're not going to give him 5/100 which is minimum to re-sign him. I want the Sox to get him back. Like I said, better to trade him to a team that has no chance of re-signing him then trading him to a big market one.

And, Gomes' personality annoyed me from Day 1. He's way too into himself. His home run against the Cards was great. Going 7-42 in the playoffs was not great. His post-game interview after the WS was cringe worthy. The suit he wore to the White House was cringe worthy. He's obsessed with his self-image, and I can deal with that from a star player. Not a bench player. I'll miss Lester a lot. Good riddance to Gomes, the ultimate hardo.

 

[woolybug25]

Then why did you say he has a career average of 22 HRs? His lowest season is 23. ESPN projects him for 26 this year. ESPN is projecting him for 9 over the remainder of the season. You are projected him for 0 by saying that he averages 22 HRs in a career.

BECAUSE HE DOES!!! How many times do I have to say this. He currently has that average. That is a fact. You can't give him homeruns he hasn't hit yet and say that's his average. You can only go by what a player has done to date. When he hits those homeruns, then his career average will change... just like every other player in history. Every single time they step on the field, their career averages change. I just stated a fact, sorry that you are unhappy that I didn't reference future projections when I stated a factual stat.

And yes, I'm very content with them paying $10 million a year for Cespedes. Like I said, based on projections he will be averaging 25 HRs and 85+ RBIs a year for his first 3 years in the league. There is no salary cap. Boston is a huge market. They can pay him 10 million a year to put up those numbers even if he bats .260. This is why I'm frustrated that they're not re-signing Lester considering he's had no injury problems ever. We can afford to splurge.

But you can't pay your best pitcher? K. Cool story.

Lester is not returning to the As no matter what next year. They're not going to give him 5/100 which is minimum to re-sign him. I want the Sox to get him back. Like I said, better to trade him to a team that has no chance of re-signing him then trading him to a big market one.

Again... you must be a fortune teller, because you sure know everything that will happen in the future. lol

 

[FrankMA]

Boston has the highest average ticket prices in the MLB but they can't afford to re-sign their ace. Makes sense. (my disbelief not directed at you TTT)

My understanding that it is not the money so much as the number of years. It seems like Boston's ownership/management does not like big money contracts for any player over 4 years or so. If that is the case, I don't think they will be signing any big name free agents soon.

 

[gkIrish]

My understanding that it is not the money so much as the number of years. It seems like Boston's ownership/management does not like big money contracts for any player over 4 years or so. If that is the case, I don't think they will be signing any big name free agents soon.

I know that's their policy now...I just think it's a stupid policy. Who is their ace next year? They aren't signing Scherzer if they aren't willing to sign Lester. So they are basically giving up on next year too. I don't get it.

 

[FrankMA]

I know that's their policy now...I just think it's a stupid policy. Who is their ace next year? They aren't signing Scherzer if they aren't willing to sign Lester. So they are basically giving up on next year too. I don't get it.

I don't get it either. It looks like their days as a top contender in the American League may be over for a while.

 

[irishfan]

I know that's their policy now...I just think it's a stupid policy. Who is their ace next year? They aren't signing Scherzer if they aren't willing to sign Lester. So they are basically giving up on next year too. I don't get it.

Agreed, it makes no sense. Especially for Lester who has never had an injury problem (cancer and one lat injury that cost him 4 starts). I know they've been burned by some big contracts but you'd figure they could make an exception for a guy who has played his whole career here, developed into an Ace, and has 0 injury history.

Who knows? Maybe they re-sign him once the year is over and this is just a genius move to get Cespedes and go all-in on 2015. Right now though, the owners are looking like idiots for not locking him up months ago.

 

[BobbyMac]

So you think Cespedes is better than Harper? haha

First of all, he hasn't outperformed him. He has played over 50 more games that Harper. So he has slightly more hits, but a worse BA. I doubt you will find many people on here that would trade Harper for Cespedes.

So you might want to pick up your gavel and quit quoting your own posts. Go down the list I linked before and tell me that you cant find a ton of players that 1) Play LF 2) have similar stats & 3) make 1/3rd of the money as Cespedes.

I don't think he's better, I wouldn't trade Cespedes for Harper, never said that, you implied that My guess is Harper will have a better overall career if I had to bet but who knows.... but look at the stats.

Don't give Harper credit for playing less games... if anything ding him because he's injury prone at such a young age. They've both been in the league for 3 seasons and Cespedes has done more because he's played more... yes but these guys are in the same statistical ballpark for sure.

Everyone's contract money is different in the case of the 4 you are comparing. Cuban players have the advantage in first contracts as they show up in the states as free agents and get paid right out the gate. But the 3 guys you brought up are apples and oranges. 100% apples and oranges.

I quoted myself to add to my previous post.... new to the MB world?

Why am I going to go down your list? You're a smart guy and couldn't find one good example.

So let me just ask you this...

Would you pay Bryce Harper $10M when his rookie contract runs up if his stats remain the same?

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[gkIrish]

Side note, why has it been so quiet today other than this trade?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

If Mike Trout's 2014 salary is the standard then every other player in MLB is overpaid.

Trading Lester is a no-brainer for the Sox IF he is dead set on reaching free agency and seeeing what the market will give him. There is no reason Boston to hold on unless he is willing to sign for less than market value. They will have the option of paying market value this winter.

 

[irishfan]

BECAUSE HE DOES!!! How many times do I have to say this. He currently has that average. That is a fact. You can't give him homeruns he hasn't hit yet and say that's his average. You can only go by what a player has done to date. When he hits those homeruns, then his career average will change... just like every other player in history. Every single time they step on the field, their career averages change. I just stated a fact, sorry that you are unhappy that I didn't reference future projections when I stated a factual stat.



But you can't pay your best pitcher? K. Cool story.



Again... you must be a fortune teller, because you sure know everything that will happen in the future. lol

Okay, so if I hit 50 homers my rookie season and then I hit 2 on opening day my second season are you going to say that I average 26 homers a year? That's what you're saying with Cespedes. I just don't understand how you can say someone averages 22 home runs for their career when they've hit 23, 26, and now 17 through 2/3 of the year. The math doesn't add up.

And I said it didn't make any sense that they couldn't pay Lester. I'm pissed they didn't sign Lester to a deal months ago. Kid has 0 injury history and has been here his whole career. They botched this Lester thing hard. This is my quote "This is why I'm frustrated that they're not re-signing Lester considering he's had no injury problems ever. We can afford to splurge." Very "cool story" indeed there, thanks for reading what I posted so closely.

And I don't think it takes a fortune teller to say that the As aren't going to throw 20+ million at a player, let alone one who will be 31 next year. I'd like to see the precedent for that in Oakland.

 

[woolybug25]

Would you pay Bryce Harper $10M when his rookie contract runs up if his stats remain the same?

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Yes, because he is a better fielder, steals bases and is a 5 tool player. Cespedes is not, you are simply paying him for power hitting.

But please, go on and continue to use similar BA's and HR numbers as your basis.

 

[BobbyMac]

Okay, so if I hit 50 homers my rookie season and then I hit 2 on opening day my second season are you going to say that I average 26 homers a year? That's what you're saying with Cespedes. I just don't understand how you can say someone averages 22 home runs for their career when they've hit 23, 26, and now 17 through 2/3 of the year. The math doesn't add up.

And I said it didn't make any sense that they couldn't pay Lester. I'm pissed they didn't sign Lester to a deal months ago. Kid has 0 injury history and has been here his whole career. They botched this Lester thing hard. This is my quote "This is why I'm frustrated that they're not re-signing Lester considering he's had no injury problems ever. We can afford to splurge." Very "cool story" indeed there, thanks for reading what I posted so closely.

And I don't think it takes a fortune teller to say that the As aren't going to throw 20+ million at a player, let alone one who will be 31 next year. I'd like to see the precedent for that in Oakland.

Wolly doesn't wanna give Cespedes credit for what he will most likely do (and even more of it in little azz Fenway) but on the other hand he wants to give Harper credit for the stats he missed by being injured. Irishfan... ya can't win a debate with someone who makes up the rules.

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[irishfan]

Wolly doesn't wanna give Cespedes credit for what he will most likely do (and even more of it in little azz Fenway) but on the other hand he wants to give Harper credit for the stats he missed by being injured. Irishfan... ya can't win a debate with someone who makes up the rules.

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Seriously. Doesn't want to use future projections, but is projecting Cespedes for 0 homers the rest of the year to make up a stat.

 

[BobbyMac]

Yes, because he is a better fielder, steals bases and is a 5 tool player. Cespedes is not, you are simply paying him for power hitting.

But please, go on and continue to use similar BA's and HR numbers as your basis.

He has 1 stolen base this year. Averages 10 a year.... 10 SB's make you a 5 tool? (I'm not saying he isn't... just asking)

Cespedes has 4 less SB than Harper... So is Cespedes a 4.9 tool player?

Come on bro.... say uncle.

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[BobbyMac]

Seriously. Doesn't want to use future projections, but is projecting Cespedes for 0 homers the rest of the year to make up a stat.

I'm in the choir Pastor, you don't even have to turn around... I can hear ya loud and clear.

.

 

[STLDomer]

Fucking awful trade by the Cardinals for Lackey IMO

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Yes, because he is a better fielder, steals bases and is a 5 tool player. Cespedes is not, you are simply paying him for power hitting.

But please, go on and continue to use similar BA's and HR numbers as your basis.

On average, Harper steals about 4 more bases over a season's worth of PA (about 600) and has a career batting average that is 0.008 higher than Cespedes. Both have excellent arms and both are good enough on defense to fake center field. Harper is way more valuable because he is almost a decade younger and can't reach free agency for another 3.5 years (I think) whereas Cespedes will hit FA this offseason.

 

[gkIrish]

Fucking awful trade by the Cardinals for Lackey IMO

Wow that's a steal for the Red Sox. Wtf.

 

[irishfan]

Fucking awful trade by the Cardinals for Lackey IMO

I don't know much about Kelly and Craig. Any insight?

Lackey has been better the past couple of seasons. He's not the beer and chicken guy from 2012. I think he has a club option for just $500,000 next season also.

3.52 ERA in 2013 and 3.60 in 2014. He's a steal if he can replicate those numbers for $500,000 next season.

 

[woolybug25]

Seriously. Doesn't want to use future projections, but is projecting Cespedes for 0 homers the rest of the year to make up a stat.

Where in the hell did I say that? I just told you what his average was to date. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. You are the one that is trying to add numbers to his stats that he hasn't actually accomplished yet. But never, not once, have I said I expect him to not hit any more homers.

He has 1 stolen base this year. Averages 10 a year.... 10 SB's make you a 5 tool? (I'm not saying he isn't... just asking)

Cespedes has 4 less SB than Harper... So is Cespedes a 4.9 tool player?

Come on bro.... say uncle.

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So it's not cool to use his average per game now, only when it goes against Harper? Again, he has played in far less games. You may not think that Harper is a 5 tool guy, but there are plenty of experts that disagree with you.

 

[BobbyMac]

On average, Harper steals about 4 more bases over a season's worth of PA (about 600) and has a career batting average that is 0.008 higher than Cespedes. Both have excellent arms and both are good enough on defense to fake center field. Harper is way more valuable because he is almost a decade younger and can't reach free agency for another 3.5 years (I think) whereas Cespedes will hit FA this offseason.

Harper is under his rookie contract through the '15 season and exactly 7 years younger.

Cespedes does have a cannon but he has flashes of Sorianoism from time to time. There is a reason he's in left. That being said, he has the tools to play the other two spots.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

I don't know much about Kelly and Craig. Any insight?

Lackey has been better the past couple of seasons. He's not the beer and chicken guy from 2012. I think he has a club option for just $500,000 next season also.

3.52 ERA in 2013 and 3.60 in 2014. He's a steal if he can replicate those numbers for $500,000 next season.

Its a fucking shitty trade for the Cardinals. Craig was among the league leaders in RBI last season before he missed the end of the regular season with a foot injury. Kelly is having some command issues currently, but I hate to see the Cards give away a young, live arm to get old ass John Lackey. The Cardinals shit the bed this trade deadline.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

Day Late dollar short