'11 CA RB Amir Carlisle (Notre Dame Football Player)

[Bogtrotter07]

Broken collarbone, he should be back by the fall.

This brings up the biggest question mark he had during recruiting. Is he big enough to play at this level or will he get hurt?

Realistically two years on the field and two major injuries.

Realistically, one day of contact at ND and two broken bones. I like the kid, but he hasn't been healthy since high school. On another note, I always wondered why Lane didn't block him from coming here. I don't know anything but this is pretty overwhelming.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Realistically, one day of contact at ND and two broken bones. I like the kid, but he hasn't been healthy since high school.

On a more serious note, his college career has thus far been hampered by injuries to, in order, the following areas: (1) knee; (2) ankle; and (3) collar bone. Would an extra 20 lbs of muscle have protected him from any of those? Honest question here, but I doubt it.

If he sustains a similar injury to one of those areas again, then I'll start to worry.

On another note, I always wondered why Lane didn't block him from coming here. I don't know anything but this is pretty overwhelming.

That sumb!tch sold us a lemon!

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Some guys are just Greg Oden. Hopefully Amir isn't one of them.

 

[Ironman8]

Some guys are just Greg Oden. Hopefully Amir isn't one of them.

Huh? Greg Oden is a 7'1 man with legs that are an inch and a half different in length. You can label him injury prone early in his career if you want, but that was a crazy comparison haha.

 

[Cackalacky]

Huh? Greg Oden is a 7'1 man with legs that are an inch and a half different in length. You can label him injury prone early in his career if you want, but that was a crazy comparison haha.

I was thinking James Aldridge. So much potential unrealized.

 

[Ironman8]

I was thinking James Aldridge. So much potential unrealized.

Makes more sense. Or a Darren McFadden, Ahmad Bradshaw type.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I was thinking James Aldridge. So much potential unrealized.

I'm not sure even that is a helpful comparison. Aldridge had one catastrophic knee injury in high school that significantly lowered his ceiling. Carlisle has had three apparently unrelated injuries that don't seem to have lowered his ceiling (knock on wood).

 

[Grahambo]

Makes more sense. Or a Darren McFadden, Ahmad Bradshaw type.

What about Armando Allen? He suffered a knee injury in HS which slowed him down a bit if I recall correctly.

 

[koonja]

Guys, this guy still has 3 years of eligibility, and it's likely he's back by fall ball. Let's cool it. He hasn't had a duplicate injury, as noted above. This kid is going to be a great player IMO, and it will start this year.

 

[PraetorianND]

Guys, this guy still has 3 years of eligibility, and it's likely he's back by fall ball. Let's cool it. He hasn't had a duplicate injury, as noted above. This kid is going to be a great player IMO, and it will start this year.

If he starts drinking more milk and taking glucosamine supplements.

 

[Irish YJ]

He'll be fine. All of these challenges will make him stronger.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Makes more sense. Or a Darren McFadden, Ahmad Bradshaw type.

Wait what? Giant fans thinking Ahmed Bradshaw was something special. LMFAO!

 

[Irish YJ]

Wait what? Giant fans thinking Ahmed Bradshaw was something special. LMFAO!

Hey Sherm, why you so Sticky?

 

[clashmore_mike]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I'm good.. <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23noworries">#noworries</a></p>— amir carlisle (@amir_carlisle) <a href="https://twitter.com/amir_carlisle/status/316413980967067648">March 26, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I'm good.. <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23noworries">#noworries</a></p>— amir carlisle (@amir_carlisle) <a href="https://twitter.com/amir_carlisle/status/316413980967067648">March 26, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

As in... no broken collar bone? Or psychologically OK, despite another injury?

 

[phgreek]

As in... no broken collar bone? Or psychologically OK, despite another injury?

...guessing like everyone, but given what media folks have said, I'm going with the latter...he is handling the let down.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[calvegas04]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I'm good.. <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23noworries">#noworries</a></p>— amir carlisle (@amir_carlisle) <a href="https://twitter.com/amir_carlisle/status/316413980967067648">March 26, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cackalacky]

I'm not sure even that is a helpful comparison. Aldridge had one catastrophic knee injury in high school that significantly lowered his ceiling. Carlisle has had three apparently unrelated injuries that don't seem to have lowered his ceiling (knock on wood).

OK... I will give you that.... I know he had some shoulder injuries later on and also was moved from running back to fullback and then got buried in the depth chart by Allen, Hughes (who replaced him), and Riddick. I was thinking he had some other injuries but maybe it was the fact that Weis had Allen and Riddick at RB , Hughes at FB and Aldridge just never got it going.

Anyway, I hope Carlisle gets it going and does not get buried.

 

[dublinirish]

This is the perfect time for AC to bust out the Gerry Bertier classic: "I'm hurt Coach, I'm not dead"

Best of luck to him in his recovery, he has got a huge role still to play.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Huh? Greg Oden is a 7'1 man with legs that are an inch and a half different in length. You can label him injury prone early in his career if you want, but that was a crazy comparison haha.

Easy sparky. I'm just saying some guys really injury prone, and hopefully Amir isn't one of them.

 

[Old Man Mike]

.... don't like the Bertier analogy. In Remember The Titans he never played another down.....

Thankfully this is not fiction, so Amir's got a good chance to turn out not to be The Man of Glass.

But, as Han Solo would say: "I've got a bad feeling about this".

 

[NOLAIrish]

Easy sparky. I'm just saying some guys really injury prone, and hopefully Amir isn't one of them.

We had this debate in one of my fantasy football leagues years ago, so I decided to break out the numbers on running backs. Backs who played 15 or more (NFL) games in one season tended to play in slightly more than 14 the next. All other groups (11-14, 6-10, 1-5 games played) tended to play in a hair fewer than 14 games the next season. There was no statistical difference between the 4 groups. I'll see if I can find the thumb drive with the old dataset on it.

I'm inclined buy the argument that "injury-prone" is a myth outside of guys with recurrences of a single injury. The types of injuries Amir has had strike me as simple bad luck. You don't break your collarbone or your ankle because you lack muscle mass, and he's not been sidelined with the typical "fast guy" injuries so far.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

.... don't like the Bertier analogy. In Remember The Titans he never played another down.....

Thankfully this is not fiction, so Amir's got a good chance to turn out not to be The Man of Glass.

But, as Han Solo would say: "I've got a bad feeling about this".

Psssst. Neither was Remember the Titans. (Fiction, I mean.) I met Ron Bass once. He did NBC Sports broadcasting for like a quarter of a century.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm inclined buy the argument that "injury-prone" is a myth outside of guys with recurrences of a single injury. The types of injuries Amir has had strike me as simple bad luck. You don't break your collarbone or your ankle because you lack muscle mass, and he's not been sidelined with the typical "fast guy" injuries so far.

That's exactly what I was trying to convey with my earlier posts in this thread.

 

[Grahambo]

That's exactly what I was trying to convey with my earlier posts in this thread.

It wasn't lost on me.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What is the skinny on broken bones? Is it a tendency? Or all just chance? I don't know.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Just a science note: of course some humans are more injury prone than others. In any biological structure you can think of the population of the species as having an "average" empowerment as to materials optimization for the typical tasks of survival and thrival, but some will be underempowered and others overly so. [Think Bell-shaped Curves everywhere].

Not all of these "deficiencies" are compensate-able by "hard work" or training. For instance, the relative flexibility of cartilage structure can differ markedly from one person to the next, as can the load bearing potential of the basic bone chemistry/physics itself. The "Strength and Properties of Materials" applies to human support structures just as much as to inorganic building materials. In short, some folks are just dealt a tough hand, and in many ways ARE more brittle, or dislocatable, or detachable, etc.

This is not saying that Amir has one of these problems. He is obviously perfectly fine with normal human activities. Full collision football is not one of those. The average healthy human is estimated as having approximately three times the force-resisting ability in his/her structures as would be reasonably expected in traumatic event scenarios of the old run-in-the-jungle or fall-down-the-hill kind. Collision football probably tests these limits all the time.

Anyone built somewhat beneath the optimum on the Old Bell Curve will tend to be injured more often. Sometimes these injuries will be structure-specific for a type of DNA/Protein dealt hand; something the body will be more generally at risk --- it depends what sort of body chemistry/physics is deficient.

Some people, unfortunately, ARE The Men of Glass. Hopefully Amir is not one of them.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Just a science note: of course some humans are more injury prone than others. In any biological structure you can think of the population of the species as having an "average" empowerment as to materials optimization for the typical tasks of survival and thrival, but some will be underempowered and others overly so. [Think Bell-shaped Curves everywhere].

Not all of these "deficiencies" are compensate-able by "hard work" or training. For instance, the relative flexibility of cartilage structure can differ markedly from one person to the next, as can the load bearing potential of the basic bone chemistry/physics itself. The "Strength and Properties of Materials" applies to human support structures just as much as to inorganic building materials. In short, some folks are just dealt a tough hand, and in many ways ARE more brittle, or dislocatable, or detachable, etc.

This is not saying that Amir has one of these problems. He is obviously perfectly fine with normal human activities. Full collision football is not one of those. The average healthy human is estimated as having approximately three times the force-resisting ability in his/her structures as would be reasonably expected in traumatic event scenarios of the old run-in-the-jungle or fall-down-the-hill kind. Collision football probably tests these limits all the time.

Anyone built somewhat beneath the optimum on the Old Bell Curve will tend to be injured more often. Sometimes these injuries will be structure-specific for a type of DNA/Protein dealt hand; something the body will be more generally at risk --- it depends what sort of body chemistry/physics is deficient.

Some people, unfortunately, ARE The Men of Glass. Hopefully Amir is not one of them.

^I'm siding with OMM on this one. It defies both logic and experience to say that all players are equally injury-prone.

 

[Emcee77]

^I'm siding with OMM on this one. It defies both logic and experience to say that all players are equally injury-prone.

co-signed. Doesn't it have to be true that some people are more likely to break bones than others?

 

[NOLAIrish]

^I'm siding with OMM on this one. It defies both logic and experience to say that all players are equally injury-prone.

Respectfully, I disagree. Logically, it does not necessarily follow that the existence of a range of bone densities (or a range in any determinant of fitness) must result in a range of football-related bone injuries. The curve may be leptokurtic. If bone-density variation is small relative to the size of the forces encountered in football (and I suspect that it is), then we shouldn't expect to detect bone-related injury-proneness among football players. Another way: it may well be the case that the typical bone-breaking hit exerts force so far in excess of human tolerances that athletes on both sides of the bone-density spectrum would experience a break. Other factors, like angle-of-impact, repetition of trauma, and use of padding would be so much more relevant as determinants of breakage that physical attributes just don't account for detectable variation.

As for experience, this is a situation that's ripe for bias. Injury-proneness is an entirely post hoc classification. And injuries are memorable events. We're going to be very susceptible to remembering the hits and forgetting the misses in analyzing whether the concept of injury-proneness reflects reality.

Some provisos:
- I don't mean to say that there is no such thing as variation in injuries. Certainly, speedsters pull hamstrings more often than plodders. And there are injuries that are related to lack of muscle mass (especially those based on repeated trauma) and quality of connective tissue. The latter, though, tend to manifest as chronic injuries and Amir hasn't shown any signs of either.
- I also don't mean to give the impression that I think my surface analysis is conclusive. It's very superficial, and there's good evidence to be had on the other side, too. But, on balance, I just don't see the case for injury-proneness (in football) being supported by the evidence yet. I'm open to changing that opinion should the data conflict with my view.