Autry Denson

[IrishFanJMercy]

My initial post is about him as a coach/recruiter. As many of of you have said, he seems like a great man and I'm sure he's a great father too.

But I don't like the direction of the position was headed and the lack of recruiting wasn't helping either. Denson had failed to build up the depth chart with quality backs that could be called upon. We had Dex, Jafar, and Tony Jones in 2018. Dex and Jafar are quality backs, but I wouldn't put Jones in that category. Looking at teams like Clemson and Bama (we should do this now because they are the standard and we have shown that we can at least make the playoff), their running back depth charts were far better than ours.

Our running backs haven't fumbled? Thats nice and all, but I wouldn't say running back success hinders on that. BC 2015 is the last time we lost a fumble from a running back, I think.

So, no, production from our #1 running back isn't the reason why I would like change. The fact that running back recruiting straight up sucks and we have no depth at the position is a big reason why I would like to see change.

You can't blame Denson for Mcintosh and CJ Holmes being idiots. Both of those guys would have played this past year. Mcintosh had over 400 yards as a Freshman in a limited role.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Jones is a quality contributor, very good blocker and pass catcher, he's just not a #1 RB. Jafar might be but that's alot to pin on a converted WR.
Either way our #1 RB in 2019 was supposed to be CJ Holmes, with Deon McIntosh behind him. I think if they hadn't both proven to be fuckups we wouldn't be all that worried about the position right now.
I don't know how much if their fuck-up-ery to pin on Denson (probably not much), but I don't really think it's a failure of recruiting that Holmes decided to join in Kevin Stepherson's adventures in self-destruction.

Its funny you should say that. After reading this article yesterday, it seemed like those two guys were almost perfect examples of what you would want.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

*uck Mike Hart, I wouldn't even consider hiring a skunkbear. That dude talked so much $hit back in the day as a player, no way, no how.

 

[ndfi78]

*uck Mike Hart, I wouldn't even consider hiring a skunkbear. That dude talked so much $hit back in the day as a player, no way, no how.

Wait, it's that Mike Hart? Yeah fuck that guy. Hard pass!

 

[Domina Nostra]

*uck Mike Hart, I wouldn't even consider hiring a skunkbear. That dude talked so much $hit back in the day as a player, no way, no how.

Elston is as good a fit for ND as I can imagine. He's no longer a Michigan man.

Just saying that kids make huge, horrible mistakes in life, but once the cold, hard, awful reality of what they've done (i.e, committed to Michigan, Ohio State, etc.) slaps them in the face, we're should let them atone.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Elston is as good a fit for ND as I can imagine. Just saying...

This is a fair point and he's the exception IMO, it's not hard to see he's had a change of heart with his loyalties and he's been outstanding, and appears to love it here at ND.

But man, remembering Hart in those press conferences; his mouth never stopped running. It was clear he didn't like us, I can't imagine that hatchet is buried super deep a mere decade later.

He was the player who famously dubbed MSU as lil bro, and that turned out really well for his alma mater thereafter...

 

[arrowryan]

I never said Denson isn’t a good coach. He is a good coach, I just want more from a running backs coach than he was able to offer. As I said before, running back recruiting has been awful and if we want to compete with the Clemson’s of the world then that needs to improve asap.

The depth debate is an interesting one. He’s always had a good starter and a quality back up most of the time. But the Clemson game has stuck in my head and so did the Clemson-Bama game, both of those teams showed me that great teams have three “premium running back worthy” running backs. Notre has one, with one being a “premium running back in the making”.

I’m sorry that I don’t agree with the majority. Denson has not been better than Alford and I don’t think welds going to miss Denson that much.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I never said Denson isn’t a good coach. He is a good coach, I just want more from a running backs coach than he was able to offer. As I said before, running back recruiting has been awful and if we want to compete with the Clemson’s of the world then that needs to improve asap.

The depth debate is an interesting one. He’s always had a good starter and a quality back up most of the time. But the Clemson game has stuck in my head and so did the Clemson-Bama game, both of those teams showed me that great teams have three “premium running back worthy” running backs. Notre has one, with one being a “premium running back in the making”.

I’m sorry that I don’t agree with the majority. Denson has not been better than Alford and I don’t think welds going to miss Denson that much.

That's not true. Last year we had two premium backs. The problem was that we were only playing one.

 

[ulukinatme]

Fuck Michigan, no Bike Hart.

 

[NDMIA]

I never said Denson isn’t a good coach. He is a good coach, I just want more from a running backs coach than he was able to offer. As I said before, running back recruiting has been awful and if we want to compete with the Clemson’s of the world then that needs to improve asap.

The depth debate is an interesting one. He’s always had a good starter and a quality back up most of the time. But the Clemson game has stuck in my head and so did the Clemson-Bama game, both of those teams showed me that great teams have three “premium running back worthy” running backs. Notre has one, with one being a “premium running back in the making”.

I’m sorry that I don’t agree with the majority. Denson has not been better than Alford and I don’t think welds going to miss Denson that much.

.9787 4* Jerrion Ealy - UA All American
.9182 4* Chez Mellusi - Army All American

At this point it almost seems in the bag that Clemson is going to add these two RB’s. Ealy seems to be trending heavily in Clemson’s direction which means they put together one of the best RB classes in the country.

 

[STLDomer]

I never said Denson isn’t a good coach. He is a good coach, I just want more from a running backs coach than he was able to offer. As I said before, running back recruiting has been awful and if we want to compete with the Clemson’s of the world then that needs to improve asap.

The depth debate is an interesting one. He’s always had a good starter and a quality back up most of the time. But the Clemson game has stuck in my head and so did the Clemson-Bama game, both of those teams showed me that great teams have three “premium running back worthy” running backs. Notre has one, with one being a “premium running back in the making”.

I’m sorry that I don’t agree with the majority. Denson has not been better than Alford and I don’t think welds going to miss Denson that much.

If you use Alford has your recruiting bar than you’re going to be disappointed a lot. He’s one of the best recruiters in the country. By that standard anyone would fail.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Back up the Brinks truck and get Tony Alford in here.....dont f*ck around; pay the man and get him in here ASAP. They should have paid him before....(I'm pretty sure I said the same thing when he originally left for OSU.)

Paying Alford more money won't bring 5 star running backs to ND over Ohio St.

 

[ThePiombino]

Paying Alford more money won't bring 5 star running backs to ND over Ohio St.

His pay may not be relevant, but his presence could be.

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[GrangerIrish24]

So any rumblings of who we could be interviewing?

 

[NDMIA]

I looked at the recruiter rankings on 247Sports to get an idea of the best RB coach recruiters. Here is a list of the top 16 guys in the last 3 cycles of recruiting in terms of recruiting prowess.

Coach - Current Job - Age - Salary
Joe Pannunzio - Alabama - 59 - $425,000
Dell McGee - Georgia - 45 - $550,000
Ja'Juan Seider - Penn State - 41 - $345,000 (UF Salary)
Jay Graham - Texas A&M - 43 - $475,000
Tommie Robinson - LSU - 55 - $600,000
Des Kitchings - NC State - 40 - $325,000
Tony Alford - Ohio State - 48-49 - $525,000
Charles Huff - Miss St - 35 - $350,000
Ryan Held - Nebraska - 44 - $300,000
Zohn Burden - VT - 34 - $280,000
Tyrone Wheatley - Unemployed - 46 - $0
Robert Gillespie - UNC - 39 - $385,000
Thomas Brown - S. Carolina - 32 - $300,000
Tim Horton - Auburn - 50-51 - $400,000
Bobby Bentley - S. Carolina - 50 - $400,000
Curtis Luper - TCU - 52 - Private School

Right now, I'd say that Dell McGee & Tony Alford are the best RB Coach recruiters in the business. I think Des Kitchings is right there because of what he's been able to do at a program that isn't at the top of the recruiting food chain. I think if you got just about anyone on this list, you'd probably be happy because these guys are the top of the top in the game. A few notes; Des Kitchings was promoted to Co-OC which will make it tougher to pry him away at NC State. Tyrone Wheatley was a dynamite recruiter at Michigan, but was fired by the Jacksonville Jaguars a few days ago after a short stint there. Robert Gillespie was retained by Mack Brown and has a hefty salary, but was looking around and maybe still is. Thomas Brown was the OC at Miami but was fired and just hired at South Carolina. Tim Horton at Auburn was demoted to an off field job so he's basically a free agent because his contract runs out in the summer as well so he could probably be poached away. Bobby Bentley shifted over to TE coach to accomodate Thomas Brown coming to South Carolina (he briefly looked at the Auburn RB Coach spot, but turned them down). Btw, South Carolina is putting together a big time staff of recruiters. I'd be pretty darn excited about almost any of these guys, but I don't know if Notre Dame can poach many of these guys away because some of them make huge salaries. If I were Jack Swarbrick, I'd put my chips on the table with Brian Kelly and offer Des Kitchings the Co-OC/RB job and $450,000 a year. He'll be pulled away to some desperate SEC school soon anyway so now is the time to poach him before he becomes unpoachable.

 

[stlnd01]

Do we have any idea what Denson was getting paid?

 

[PANDFAN]

Give me Huff and call it a day IF alford doesn't want to come back....younger, good recruiter, proven developer.

 

[Irish YJ]

As always, we know ND can afford to compete financially...

Give one of the top guys 500k base, a bonus of 100k for each 5 star that comes and stays 3 years, 50k for each 4 star... Give them a fancier title like Running Game Coordinator, or Co-OC if need be.

For a top guy who can cruit, he's pocketing 600k min per year. Then give him a few spifs that are performance based. Perhaps another spif for keeping the kids from stealing and smoking weed...

 

[ulukinatme]

As always, we know ND can afford to compete financially...

Give one of the top guys 500k base, a bonus of 100k for each 5 star that comes and stays 3 years, 50k for each 4 star... Give them a fancier title like Running Game Coordinator, or Co-OC if need be.

For a top guy who can cruit, he's pocketing 600k min per year. Then give him a few spifs that are performance based. Perhaps another spif for keeping the kids from stealing and smoking weed...

Having the ability to compete financially, and actually opening the pocket book are two very different things. ND has shown they'd rather build more buildings around campus than invest more in the football program as of late. Yeah, the Campus Crossroads project did include a nice, big video board (That was a long time coming) and some other amenities, but the main goal of the project was to enhance the stadium so it could be used for other purposes throughout the year and not just for 6 home games. When it comes to doling out money for coaches, the administration seems to have been stingier after they got burnt on the Weis contract. There was no reason Elko had to leave for a bigger paycheck.

 

[Irish YJ]

Having the ability to compete financially, and actually opening the pocket book are two very different things. ND has shown they'd rather build more buildings around campus than invest more in the football program as of late. Yeah, the Campus Crossroads project did include a nice, big video board (That was a long time coming) and some other amenities, but the main goal of the project was to enhance the stadium so it could be used for other purposes throughout the year and not just for 6 home games. When it comes to doling out money for coaches, the administration seems to have been stingier after they got burnt on the Weis contract. There was no reason Elko had to leave for a bigger paycheck.

Oh I know... has the money, and spends the money, are two different things.
And it's not like boosters/donors would not be willing to toss in some extra cheese.
It's my biggest beef with ND... It's the one area that clearly shows lack of commitment and has zero to do with cheapening what "ND stands for". They can have both buildings and coaches...

 

[irishff1014]

I don’t know the rules for college coaches contracts but can a school add different kind of bonuses? Such as if you hire a RB coach for a base of 350,000 and then add things like top 25 running back,top 15 running back,top 5 running back, top 25 recruiter and so on.

I know other thing can come in to play here such as play calling, how good the o-line is and other reasons.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

I don’t know the rules for college coaches contracts but can a school add different kind of bonuses? Such as if you hire a RB coach for a base of 350,000 and then add things like top 25 running back,top 15 running back,top 5 running back, top 25 recruiter and so on.

I know other thing can come in to play here such as play calling, how good the o-line is and other reasons.

There are definitely bonuses and even some weird ones, but I doubt anyone would want to put recruiting rankings into the contract. To me it creates too many possible problems. If a coach is going to get 50K for a top 15 running back, he might try to sneak some money to one of the site analysts to give the guy a little boost. Or he might pressure the kid to go to more camps which we know influences rankings. Or he might spend more time on getting kids that would get him money even if they don't fit the program or we don't need the extra back. There are definitely other problems that I'm not thinking of, but the point is I doubt anyone in the administration would want these possibilities when they can probably just offer more money upfront and avoid these problems.

 

[NDMIA]

There are definitely bonuses and even some weird ones, but I doubt anyone would want to put recruiting rankings into the contract. To me it creates too many possible problems. If a coach is going to get 50K for a top 15 running back, he might try to sneak some money to one of the site analysts to give the guy a little boost. Or he might pressure the kid to go to more camps which we know influences rankings. Or he might spend more time on getting kids that would get him money even if they don't fit the program or we don't need the extra back. There are definitely other problems that I'm not thinking of, but the point is I doubt anyone in the administration would want these possibilities when they can probably just offer more money upfront and avoid these problems.

Yea there’s no way they would do that with bonuses. I’m sure the coaching staff has seen the rankings and someone in the gug checks on them but I think it’s for the reason of checking to see if there would be a stone left uncovered. There are some 3 stars that are overlooked and are 100% better than some guys who are 4 stars.

 

[irishff1014]

There are definitely bonuses and even some weird ones, but I doubt anyone would want to put recruiting rankings into the contract. To me it creates too many possible problems. If a coach is going to get 50K for a top 15 running back, he might try to sneak some money to one of the site analysts to give the guy a little boost. Or he might pressure the kid to go to more camps which we know influences rankings. Or he might spend more time on getting kids that would get him money even if they don't fit the program or we don't need the extra back. There are definitely other problems that I'm not thinking of, but the point is I doubt anyone in the administration would want these possibilities when they can probably just offer more money upfront and avoid these problems.

True that. I didn’t think about that aspect of it.

 

[Irish YJ]

almost any kind of performance bonus could drive bad behavior if the employee is not a RKC..... the metric/bonus has to 1) directly fit the goal and 2) be measurable.


just like a player is monitored and graded, a coach is too. i'm sure plenty of recruiting coordinators are spif'd for results that are tied to both stars or class ranking, as well as successful stay and performance. if not, they are missing 101 kind of stuff.

 

[T-Boone]

If running back gets Heisman $1mil bonus.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Give one of the top guys 500k base, a bonus of 100k for each 5 star that comes and stays 3 years, 50k for each 4 star... Give them a fancier title like Running Game Coordinator, or Co-OC if need be.

Having the ability to compete financially, and actually opening the pocket book are two very different things. ND has shown they'd rather build more buildings around campus than invest more in the football program as of late.

Perhaps include in their bonus package that one of the new buildings will be named after them if they meet performance standards

 

[ThePiombino]

Does no one else see the flaw in awarding bonuses for recruiting kids based purely on their recruiting ranking? lol

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[ab2cmiller]

Does no one else see the flaw in awarding bonuses for recruiting kids based purely on their recruiting ranking? lol

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Most of us do. What could go wrong? LOL

 

[General Colon Bowel]

I think Ron Gould, Stanford’s rb coach, would be an outstanding hire if we could get him. His track record speaks for itself:

Cal RB coach - 1997-2012: coached and recruited Marshawn Lynch (1st rounder, #28 ovr Rivals rank), JJ Arrington (2nd rounder, 2,000 yards in a season), Jahvid Best (1st rounder, #94 ovr Rivals), Shane Vereen (2nd rounder, #175 ovr Rivals), Justin Forsett (2014 Pro Bowler), CJ Anderson.

4 of the past 7 Super Bowls have had a running back he’s coached in it.

UC Davis (head coach) - 2013-2016: never had a winning record, but he did have a good running game. Also had the highest Academic Progress Rate in his conference for four straight years.

Stanford - 17-18: coached Bryce Love, bringing in a top 100 ovr rb in this 2019 recruiting class.

The guy can coach, recruit, and deal with academic restrictions of ND. I think he’s the best man for the job