Another Shooting

[Legacy]

Oliver North out as NRA president after leadership dispute

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Oliver North announced Saturday that he would not serve a second term as National Rifle Association president, making it clear he had been forced out by the gun lobby’s leadership after his own failed attempt to remove the NRA’s longtime CEO in a burgeoning divide over the group’s finances and media operations.

“Please know I hoped to be with you today as NRA president endorsed for reelection. I’m now informed that will not happen,” North said in a statement that was read by Richard Childress, the NRA’s first vice president, to members at the group’s annual convention.

North, whose one-year term ends Monday, did not show up for the meeting, and his spot on the stage was left empty, his nameplate still in its place. His statement was largely met with silence. Wayne LaPierre, whom North had tried to push out, later received two standing ovations.

It was a stunning conclusion to a battle between two conservative and Second Amendment titans — North, the retired Marine lieutenant colonel with a ramrod demeanor who was at the center of the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980s, and LaPierre, who has been battle-tested in the decades since he took up the mantle of gun rights. He has fought back challenges that have arisen over the decades, seemingly emerging unscathed each time. In this latest effort, he pushed back against North, telling members of the NRA’s board of directors that North had threatened to release “damaging” information about him to them and saying it amounted to an “extortion” attempt.

Hundreds of the NRA’s estimated 5 million members packed into the convention center in Indianapolis where the group’s annual meetings were being held. Near the end of the two-hour meeting, some members challenged efforts to adjourn and pushed to question the board about controversies involving its financial management, the relationship with its longtime public relations firm and details of what North sought to raise about alleged misspending, sexual harassment and other mismanagement.

But those cries were drowned out as some board members urged such conversations not to be held at such a large public forum, even if the media were eventually discharged from the room.

“We don’t want to give the other side any more information than they already have,” said Tom King, a board member from New York for more than a decade.

Offered Marion Hammer, a former NRA president and longtime lobbyist from Florida: “The life’s blood of this organization is on the line. We are under fire from without. We do not need to be under attack from within.”

The internal dispute first spilled out in public after the NRA in recent weeks filed a lawsuit against Ackerman McQueen, the Oklahoma-based public relations firm that has earned tens of millions of dollars in the decades since it began shaping the gun lobby’s fierce talking points. The NRA’s lawsuit accuses Ackerman McQueen of refusing to hand over financial records to account for its billings.

North has a $1 million contract with Ackerman McQueen, raising alarm bells among some in the NRA about conflicts of interest. He has a show called “American Heroes” on NRATV, the online TV station created and operated by Ackerman McQueen. NRATV and Ackerman McQueen’s billings are at the center of the turmoil, with some members and board members questioning whether they were getting any value for the money devoted to that part of the operation. In 2017 alone, the NRA paid the firm $40 million.

NRATV’s programming is provocative, often taking on topics far afield from gun rights, leading some members to wonder if it was damaging its efforts to further gun rights and bring in new members.

The NRA also has faced some financial and regulator struggles in recent years, and there remain concerns that New York authorities in particular — the state where the NRA created its charter — are looking to strip it of its nonprofit status.

An outside lawyer for the NRA, William A. Brewer, said Saturday that New York’s attorney general has opened an investigation into the organization.

In his statement, North said a committee should be set up to review the NRA’s finances and operations.

“There is a clear crisis and it needs to be dealt with” if the NRA is to survive, he said...

NRA president steps down after being accused of extortion (Vox)

Saturday, North, a former Marine Corps colonel best known for his role in the Iran-Contra affair, announced he will not seek another term as president in a letter read by NRA Second Vice President Richard Childress at the group’s annual meeting in Indianapolis. North’s term ends Monday.

In the letter, North repeated his concern over the state of the NRA’s finances, claiming one of the first meetings he took as president was with “NRA board members and donors who were concerned about the amount of money the NRA was paying to the Brewer law firm.” He also reiterated his fear that the NRA could soon lose its nonprofit status.

This most recent letter comes after another letter to the NRA board was published by the Wall Street Journal Friday. In that missive, LaPierre claimed North had threatened to send a letter detailing financial improprieties and sexual harassment claims unless LaPierre stepped down.

“The letter would contain a devastating account for our financial status, sexual harassment charges against a staff member, accusations of wardrobe expenses, and excessive staff travel expenses,” LaPierre wrote, according to the Washington Post. “But then, Col. North explained that the letter would not be sent — if I were to promptly resign as your Executive Vice President. And, if I supported Col. North’s continued tenure as president, he stated that he could ‘negotiate’ an ‘excellent retirement’ for me.”

North responded to LaPierre’s allegations in a separate letter to the board, writing he has questions about LaPierre’s financial management of the organization, and that he plans to assemble a committee that will investigate both the NRA’s finances and “allegations of financial misconduct related to Mr. LaPierre.”

At the convention, a resolution was introduced calling for LaPierre to be removed, followed by vigorous discussion and questioning from the membership. When the N.R.A.’s secretary and general counsel moved to send the resolution calling for LaPierre’s ouster to the board so that it could be discussed in private, citing ongoing litigation and an internal review, it elicited boos from the crowd. The Board will meet Monday to discuss the resolution.

During the Trump era, NRA membership is down 21%. The NRA has become ensnared in an FBI investigation that is ongoing into whether Russia funnled money into their organization as part of NRA's $30 million political donations in the 2016 election cycle including supporting Trump. Continuing legal costs have further drained NRA coffers.

A joint investigation by The New Yorker and The Trace exposed hundreds of millions of dollars in questionable payments to N.R.A. executives, contractors, and venders. Adding to the scrutiny on the gun-rights group, the Times reported on Saturday that the New York attorney general, Letitia James, has opened a formal investigation into the group’s financial practices, including whether it should retain its nonprofit status.

The NRA is registered as a tax exempt organization under IRS code section 501(c)(4) organization. Those are described in the Tax Code as "[c]ivic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes."
Examples of well-known section 501(c)(4) organizations include the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP).

 

[drayer54]

Oliver North out as NRA president after leadership dispute



At the convention, a resolution was introduced calling for LaPierre to be removed, followed by vigorous discussion and questioning from the membership. When the N.R.A.’s secretary and general counsel moved to send the resolution calling for LaPierre’s ouster to the board so that it could be discussed in private, citing ongoing litigation and an internal review, it elicited boos from the crowd. The Board will meet Monday to discuss the resolution.

During the Trump era, NRA membership is down 21%. The NRA has become ensnared in an FBI investigation that is ongoing into whether Russia funnled money into their organization as part of NRA's $30 million political donations in the 2016 election cycle including supporting Trump. Continuing legal costs have further drained NRA coffers.

I was in the room when the resolution was introduced and even called for the resolution. I was part of the “resistance” that sought to ouster Wayne. I just got home from NRAAM today and it was a busy show. I know the left wants to sing of the NRA’s demise, but reality is that it is strong, but a bit of a mess. Hopefully, the next NRA President can solve some of the problems that the old guard is ignoring.

 

[Irishize]

I was in the room when the resolution was introduced and even called for the resolution. I was part of the “resistance” that sought to ouster Wayne. I just got home from NRAAM today and it was a busy show. I know the left wants to sing of the NRA’s demise, but reality is that it is strong, but a bit of a mess. Hopefully, the next NRA President can solve some of the problems that the old guard is ignoring.

Good to hear. The press loves to blow out of proportion anything NRA-related. So many special interest groups that are much larger w/ more money yet the align w/ the MSM’s politics so they get zero scrutiny.

 

[Irish#1]

I was in the room when the resolution was introduced and even called for the resolution. I was part of the “resistance” that sought to ouster Wayne. I just got home from NRAAM today and it was a busy show. I know the left wants to sing of the NRA’s demise, but reality is that it is strong, but a bit of a mess. Hopefully, the next NRA President can solve some of the problems that the old guard is ignoring.

I would guess there's some truth on both sides of this discussion, but given how long he's been in charge, it's probably time for Wayne to retire.

 

[Legacy]

I was in the room when the resolution was introduced and even called for the resolution. I was part of the “resistance” that sought to ouster Wayne. I just got home from NRAAM today and it was a busy show. I know the left wants to sing of the NRA’s demise, but reality is that it is strong, but a bit of a mess. Hopefully, the next NRA President can solve some of the problems that the old guard is ignoring.

I almost asked. Clearly, you have your concerns about different issues with the NRA leadership. Fair to say that it is with financial irregularities? Of course, the NRA will never go away because it represents the voices of many Americans. The dustup between North and LaPierre , their accusations, the reporting from the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Times, the lawsuit against Ackerman McQueen, NRATV and questionable business dealings, hidden payments added to high salaries to executives while asking members for more donations, etc. Turmoil? Certainly. I saw some gun groups call LaPierre and M-A a "cancer" and those wanting change "insurgents". LaPierre paints North in the same hue. Maybe the Board decides something today, though it appears many in the membership look on them as they do LaPierre.

I'm sure the NRA has the resources to fight the lawsuits against the states of California and New York and weld considerable political power. Interestingly, the ACLU is supporting them in the NY lawsuit. There too many people who think that wrongly that any regulation or limitation on arms is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[drayer54]

I almost asked. Clearly, you have your concerns about different issues with the NRA leadership. Fair to say that it is with financial irregularities? Of course, the NRA will never go away because it represents the voices of many ...

I'm sure the NRA has the resources to fight the lawsuits against the states of California and New York and weld considerable political power. Interestingly, the ACLU is supporting them in the NY lawsuit. There too many people who think that wrongly that any regulation or limitation on arms is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

The NRA is a big bureaucratic swamp and requires repair to remain a political force.
I could spend 2 cigars and a few drinks discussing all of them. I've seen many of the big wig conservative types in Indy in the last few days and had the chance to pick the brain of a few board members.

The NRA hasn't controlled the message well at all on their main issue, they've drifted into a conservative firebrand, they definitely had younger members vs the old timers fight going on at the board, and they have left room for many people who don't get it to break people away from the organization.

While the NRA is losing some members, it's not to Moms Demand. Any passionate youtube star with an ax to grind can try to swing purist 2A visions to the base and sell the anti-NRA narrative. The NRA is managed so poorly that it feeds right into the gossip. "No compromise" groups that literally do nothing can sit back and claim ideological superiority and sway business over, plus people aren't as afraid with Trump in office. lots of factors.

I hope the changes made today drive the organization to a better place, but until Wayne LaPierre is gone, the mistrust will be there from the membership. The leadership has forgotten that they exist for membership. Too many rich entrenched and entitled bureaucrats are sitting around collecting big checks and doing a piss-poor job.

We'll see how it goes.

As for New York, if the ACLU is joining us, then that should tell you something. New York is wrong and they know it. But they want to break the NRA and are going to poke the bear anyway they can. Simply tying up this many resources is a win alone for them. It's a f'd up government move in my opinion. The lawsuit defending themselves for the non-profit status and their media relations are their own doing.

 

[Irish#1]

Interestingly, the ACLU is supporting them in the NY lawsuit. There too many people who think that wrongly that any regulation or limitation on arms is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

ACLU would be hypocrites if they were against them on this issue.

 

[NorthDakota]

ACLU would be hypocrites if they were against them on this issue.

The ACLU is a bunch of hypocrites. Blind squirrels find nuts too though.

 

[Irishize]

I almost asked. Clearly, you have your concerns about different issues with the NRA leadership. Fair to say that it is with financial irregularities? Of course, the NRA will never go away because it represents the voices of many Americans. The dustup between North and LaPierre , their accusations, the reporting from the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Times, the lawsuit against Ackerman McQueen, NRATV and questionable business dealings, hidden payments added to high salaries to executives while asking members for more donations, etc. Turmoil? Certainly. I saw some gun groups call LaPierre and M-A a "cancer" and those wanting change "insurgents". LaPierre paints North in the same hue. Maybe the Board decides something today, though it appears many in the membership look on them as they do LaPierre.

I'm sure the NRA has the resources to fight the lawsuits against the states of California and New York and weld considerable political power. Interestingly, the ACLU is supporting them in the NY lawsuit. There too many people who think that wrongly that any regulation or limitation on arms is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

“There too many people who think wrongly that any regulation or limitation on abortion is a violation of their right to abort a fetus.”

Both sides have their core rights (i.e., abortion & guns) in which they see any compromise as a slippery slope to prohibition.

 

[drayer54]

There too many people who think that wrongly that any regulation or limitation on arms is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

Most of the proposed regulations do little on crime but are designed to either discourage sales, make them tougher to get, and chip away at gun ownership in general. It's a long game for those who want to get rid of the guns. There is a legitimate reason to oppose the gun-control lobby.

 

[ACamp1900]

There too many people who think that wrongly that any regulation or limitation on arms is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

I agree on this... and I don't necessarily disagree with drayer above. We should be able to find a middle ground and stay there. The NRA is a big part of teh dynamic here though. So long as they are 'right wing' the left will attack and try to chop their legs and part of that is the dynamic drayer touches on. At their core I don't even believe the left is anti-gun (speaking at the leadership level, not the average voter) they are just power hungry and see the gun lobby as a roadblock to their end game.

 

[loomis41973]

UNC Charlotte now. 2 dead, others injured.

 

[Legacy]

The Stand Your Ground defense is being used in numerous incidences across many states.

Ex-cop Nouman Raja loses ‘stand your ground’ appeal in killing of stranded motorist

In this case, Raja was convicted and sentenced to 25 years for the murder. I suppose since Raja did not identify himself as a police officer and was off-duty in street clothes, Corey Jones would not have been charged if he had killed him based on Stand Your Ground. Raja just pulled and fired before Jones could defend himself even as Jones begged for his life. Fortunately, Jones was on his cell phone.

Corey Jones' family declares victory as ex-cop Nouman Raja gets 25 years for fatal shooting

 

[Legacy]

More than 34,000 Illinoisans have lost their right to own a gun. Nearly 80% may still be armed. (Chi Trib)

 

[drayer54]

More than 34,000 Illinoisans have lost their right to own a gun. Nearly 80% may still be armed. (Chi Trib)

This is gun control in a nutshell. The law abiding are impacted and the rest could care less.

 

[Legacy]

This is gun control in a nutshell. The law abiding are impacted and the rest could care less.

From article:

Among those with dismal compliance rates are residents convicted of domestic violence or people who had their cards rescinded because of mental health concerns, the Tribune analysis shows. About 3 out of 4 such revokees failed to tell the state where their weapons are, despite making a combined 5,000 serious inquiries about purchasing guns before the revocation.

Among other findings in the Tribune’s investigation:

• Domestic violence-related infractions are the most common reason for a resident’s card to be revoked, followed by mental health concerns and felony convictions.

• The state rescinded 10,527 FOID cards for domestic violence-related reasons, including battery convictions and orders of protection. Of those former cardholders, 81% have not accounted for any guns.

• The state revoked 10,067 FOID cards for mental health concerns, including voluntary and non-voluntary hospitalizations. The whereabouts of their firearms are unknown in nearly 3 of 4 cases.

• Of 157 Cook County residents who committed suicide with firearms in 2018, nine had revoked FOID cards.

Certainly, law-abiding citizens are impacted by the failure to remove these guns, to prevent them from gun purchases and to locate these high-risk individuals. Any system in which they can purchase any kind of weapon with a revoked FOID and without access to information like mental health hospitalizations or domestic abuse arrests needs improvement and enforcement to protect law-abiding citizens.

 

[BGIF]

From article:




Certainly, law-abiding citizens are impacted by the failure to remove these guns, to prevent them from gun purchases and to locate these high-risk individuals. Any system in which they can purchase any kind of weapon with a revoked FOID and without access to information like mental health hospitalizations or domestic abuse arrests needs improvement and enforcement to protect law-abiding citizens.

And so are the cops who have to go pick up the guns from people who probably shouldn't have had one in the first place.

 

[Legacy]

New study highlighting the danger of domestic violence homicide from the American Journal of Preventive Medicine with implications for red flag laws or "extreme risk protection orders," allow a court to temporarily restrict individuals' access to firearms when they exhibit "red flags" that they are a danger to themselves or others.

Firearm Ownership and Domestic Versus Nondomestic Homicide in the U.S.

Introduction
Gun ownership is associated with firearm mortality, although this association differs across victim–offender relationships. This study examines the relationship between gun ownership and domestic versus nondomestic homicide rates by victim sex.

Methods
Several sources of state-level panel data from 1990 through 2016 were merged from each of the 50 states to model domestic (i.e., family and intimate partners) and nondomestic firearm homicide as a function of state-level household firearm ownership. Firearm ownership was examined using a validated proxy measure and homicide rates came from the Supplemental Homicide Reports of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Reports. Negative binomial regression with fixed effects was used to model the outcomes and employed generalized estimating equations to account for clustering within states. Statistical analyses were completed in 2018.

Results
State-level firearm ownership was uniquely associated with domestic (incidence rate ratio=1.013, 95% CI=1.008, 1.018) but not nondomestic (incidence rate ratio=1.002, 95% CI=0.996, 1.008) firearm homicide rates, and this pattern held for both male and female victims. States in the top quartile of firearm ownership had a 64.6% (p<0.001) higher incidence rate of domestic firearm homicide than states in the lowest quartile; however, states in the top quartile did not differ significantly from states in the lowest quartile of firearm ownership in observed incidence rates of nondomestic firearm homicide.

Conclusions
State-level firearm ownership rates are related to rates of domestic but not nondomestic firearm homicide.

Full details in article link with this conclusion.

CONCLUSIONS
There was considerable variation in the rates of firearm ownership across states, and states with the highest firearm ownership had a 64.6% higher incidence rate of domestic firearm homicide relative to states with lower firearm ownership rates. There are several federal laws aimed at reducing domestic firearm homicide. For example, the Violence Against Women Act of 1994 prohibits firearm possession by individuals subjected to permanent intimate partner violence restraining orders,30 and the Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits firearm possession by people convicted of felony intimate partner violence.31 However, little has been done at the federal level to enforce these laws and as a result a number of states have sought to prevent domestic firearm homicide through additional state legislation. Studies into these policies suggest that states with laws that prohibit individuals at high risk of intimate partner violence from possessing firearms and require them to relinquish any firearms they currently own have a lower incidence of domestic firearm homicide.17, 32 The current results suggest that firearm ownership is associated with higher levels of domestic, but not nondomestic, firearm homicide, suggesting that homicide rates vary as a function of firearm ownership only within specific victim–offender relationships. Firearm ownership not being associated with nondomestic homicide is an area for further research to better understand the social dynamics at play and where firearms used in these incidents are being obtained. Overall, these findings support the need for state firearm legislation directed toward protecting victims of domestic violence, as access to firearms uniquely increases the likelihood of homicide among this population.16, 17

The position from the NRA opposing such laws:
Why NRA Is Raising A Red Flag Over "Red Flag" Laws

Extreme risk protection orders in state legislatures (Ballotpedia)

As of April 2019, 15 states—California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington—had enacted laws authorizing courts to issue extreme risk protection orders. Of those states, one was controlled by a Republican trifecta when the law was adopted, and seven were controlled by Democratic trifectas. Seven were enacted by a divided government.

 

[NorthDakota]

That's crazy... people with guns are more likely to use them as a weapon than those without guns? Who woulda thought... Thank God for these studies!!!

Too bad there is that pesky Constitution in the way or we would have gotten away with gun control you meddling kids!!

 

[Legacy]

That's crazy... people with guns are more likely to use them as a weapon than those without guns? Who woulda thought... Thank God for these studies!!!

Too bad there is that pesky Constitution in the way or we would have gotten away with gun control you meddling kids!!

Although the title says it all, this is part of what I bolded above:

The current results suggest that firearm ownership is associated with higher levels of domestic, but not nondomestic, firearm homicide, suggesting that homicide rates vary as a function of firearm ownership only within specific victim–offender relationships.

It's axiomatic that domestic violence escalates in intensity and severity. The Duh factor is that the presence of a gun in the situation where domestic violence has occurred increases the likelihood of the intimate partner being the victim by the abuser of a homicide of the intimate partner later.

States may vary and non-domestic homicides may have causes requiring interventions that other states may not see. Gun laws for those types to decrease homicides would be up the individual state.

Domestic violence that results in authorities becoming aware of it are red flags to intervene to take the gun away in this subset of gun owners. Since in this large study combining all results covering all states found no correlation between non-domestic homicides and gun ownership, concentrating on federal law authorizing extreme risk protection orders may lower homicides (and suicides) significantly. Gun ownership for these type of individuals should not be preferred over the high potential for loss of life.

 

[ACamp1900]

Mass shooting not too far from me today,... hearing crazy numbers of people hit but not sure what’s accurate. My niece is locked down at the scene but sounds like she’s perfectly fine.

** she’s away from the scene safe now but she’s apparently seen some terrible things.

San Bernardino all over again, two of my close friends were at ground zero for that too

 

[ulukinatme]

Mass shooting not too far from me today,... hearing crazy numbers of people hit but not sure what’s accurate. My niece is locked down at the scene but sounds like she’s perfectly fine.

** she’s away from the scene safe now but she’s apparently seen some terrible things.

San Bernardino all over again, two of my close friends were at ground zero for that too

Glad to hear you and your family are safe. Praying for those affected by this.

 

[Legacy]

Mass shooting not too far from me today,... hearing crazy numbers of people hit but not sure what’s accurate. My niece is locked down at the scene but sounds like she’s perfectly fine.

** she’s away from the scene safe now but she’s apparently seen some terrible things.

San Bernardino all over again, two of my close friends were at ground zero for that too

I too am glad your family is safe and hope that your niece as well as all the other similar survivors gets all the support they need. To know the shooter was filled with so much hatred that he would by an AR-15 with all the ammo he needed, drive ten hours across Texas from the NE part of the state and enter a crowded mall to coldly murder as many Hispanics as he could in order to combat, in his words, “the Hispanic invasion of Texas” is the epitome of pure evil. The twenty murdered so far are more than the average of sixteen murders a year in El Paso.

 

[Legacy]

9 killed in Ohio in second US mass shooting within 24 hours (AP)

The historic neighborhood that police Lt. Col. Matt Carper described as “a safe part of downtown,” is home to bars, restaurants and theaters.

The suspected shooter, who has not been identified, was shot to death by responding officers. Whaley said the shooter was carrying a .223-caliber rifle and had additional high-capacity magazines. Police believe there was only one shooter, and also have not yet given a motive for the attack.

Whaley said at least 27 people were treated for injuries, and at least 15 of those have been released. Several more remain in serious or critical condition, local hospital officials said at a news conference.

They said some people suffered multiple gunshot wounds, and others suffered injuries as they fled.

The NRA is pushing loosing gun regulations in Texas and Gov. Abbott Governor Greg Abbott "has now signed all of the NRA-supported legislation which the Texas Legislature sent him during the 2019 session,” the NRA web site boasted.Texas Gun Laws

Texas 2019 Regular Session Wrap-Up: Lawmakers Advance Important Pro-2A Reforms & Send Gun Control Crowd Home Empty-Handed (NRA-ILA)

The Texas legislature meets every two years with 2021 the next session. Texas passed a law that state laws preempted any local laws.

 

[Irishize]

They should pass a law that outlaws hate.

 

[NorthDakota]

They should pass a law that outlaws hate.

This Dayton guy appears to be a self described leftist.

I'm assuming he was doing some vigilante anti-hate nonsense.

Wonder what goes through someone's head to think shooting up (insert place here) seems like a good idea.

 

[Irishize]

https://apple.news/ASWclPWeNQyqkVUGuyiHMIw


This article culls info regarding mass shootings from 1966 til present day. They note the four commonalities none of which involve guns. Guns are simply a means to an end. Take them away & if you don’t think these twisted souls won’t find other means of causing deaths, you’re too naive to be in this discussion.

Guns have been around for generations but these gun massacres have not. And they’ve seemed to increase in concert w/ the increase of social media & 24/7 news coverage.

We have to get back to the origin of what compels these actions, not the means which with they carry them out. Culture has been backsliding for decades w/ more sex & violence being acceptable. Moral codes have eroded to nothing. Kids are being raised by one parent...if they’re lucky.

The MSM and most politicians in their insulated ivory towers won’t be happy until this country only has two classes and they can draw a distinct line to remove the possibility of ever interacting w/ the “lower” class. In the meantime they’ll push any initiative that limits the middle class: more confiscatory taxes, banning gun ownership, abortion on demand, assisted suicide on demand, death panels for gov’t run healthcare to weed out the weak or unwanted, open borders, legalization of all drugs, etc.

 

[Legacy]

In El Paso,
El Paso Shooter Coveted ‘Most Lethal’ Rifle Ammunition on the Market

In a four-page screed suspected to have been released by the El Paso gunman, the author lamented that his WASR 10 rifle, an AK-47 variant, couldn’t match the lethality of an AR-15. So, to boost his weapon’s killing capacity, he sought out 8M3 ammunition, a hollow-point rifle round known for its ability to expand and fragment on impact, creating catastrophic wounds. The gunman described the 8M3 as a “bullet unlike any other.” ...The 8M3 is available at all to American civilians stems from the deep-seated fervor among both some sellers and gun owners for ever-more lethal technology.

In Dayton, it was just 32 seconds from the first shot to the last shot. In that time, a 24-year-old gunman with an AR-15-style assault rifle and a 100-round drum magazine was able to kill nine people and wound 27 others on a crowded street. An audio recording and a clock showed the exact time the first shot rang out––1:05:35 a.m. It also registered the last shot, as the gunman was brought down by police, at 1:06:07 a.m. Fortunately, two policemen were nearby and the response time was not five minutes or so.

All-American Killer: How the AR-15 Became Mass Shooters’ Weapon of Choice

The mass-market boom of the AR has been horrific for the rest of us. Adam Lanza stormed Sandy Hook Elementary with a Bushmaster AR-15, laying down more than 150 rounds in less than five minutes and slaughtering 20 first-graders. James Holmes wielded a Smith & Wesson “Military & Police” (M&P) AR-15 fitted with a 100-round drum magazine in his siege of a movie theater that killed 12 and wounded 58. The San Bernardino, California, shooters carried a pair of AR-15s in their ISIS-inspired rampage that left 14 dead. Orlando shooter Omar Mateen deployed Sig Sauer’s concealable “next-generation AR” to murder 49 and injure dozens more at the Pulse nightclub – the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history.

The official statement by the NRA to the victims and families in El Paso and Dayton -

Our deepest sympathies are with the families and victims of these tragedies, as well as the entire communities of El Paso and Dayton. On behalf of our millions of members, we salute the courage of the first responders and others offering their services during this time.

The NRA is committed to the safe and lawful use of firearms by those exercising their Second Amendment freedoms.

The NRA has vigorously opposed any regulation on AR-15s or any similar weapon, any limitation on high capacity magazines and bump stocks, and has advocated for lifting the restriction on machine guns. .“Repealing the machine gun amendment … will be a high priority,” Wayne LaPierre has said. The NRA has pledged to defend “the right of law-abiding individuals to choose to own any firearm, including automatic firearms.”

 

[Irish#1]

https://apple.news/ASWclPWeNQyqkVUGuyiHMIw


This article culls info regarding mass shootings from 1966 til present day. They note the four commonalities none of which involve guns. Guns are simply a means to an end. Take them away & if you don’t think these twisted souls won’t find other means of causing deaths, you’re too naive to be in this discussion.

Guns have been around for generations but these gun massacres have not. And they’ve seemed to increase in concert w/ the increase of social media & 24/7 news coverage.

We have to get back to the origin of what compels these actions, not the means which with they carry them out. Culture has been backsliding for decades w/ more sex & violence being acceptable. Moral codes have eroded to nothing. Kids are being raised by one parent...if they’re lucky.

The MSM and most politicians in their insulated ivory towers won’t be happy until this country only has two classes and they can draw a distinct line to remove the possibility of ever interacting w/ the “lower” class. In the meantime they’ll push any initiative that limits the middle class: more confiscatory taxes, banning gun ownership, abortion on demand, assisted suicide on demand, death panels for gov’t run healthcare to weed out the weak or unwanted, open borders, legalization of all drugs, etc.

It's all so sad. I agree with the bolded. They will find another way, but I think it's time to ban assault type weapons. Most states don't allow hunting with them so the only other option is target practice. Home security? There are plenty of guns that work just fine. I'm a proponent of gun ownership, but I'm having a hard time justifying assault rifles.

Prayers for all those who died and their families.

 

[IrishLion]

It's all so sad. I agree with the bolded. They will find another way, but I think it's time to ban assault type weapons. Most states don't allow hunting with them so the only other option is target practice. Home security? There are plenty of guns that work just fine. I'm a proponent of gun ownership, but I'm having a hard time justifying assault rifles.

Prayers for all those who died and their families.

The problem is that AR-15 owners will tell you the AR-15 isn't an assault rifle, and technically they're right... this doesn't make them any less lethal or less efficient at killing humans when you put a drum magazine on them and go into a crowd, but that point gets lost in the 2nd Amendment debate.

The 2nd Amendment is outdated, period. But it's never going to change, because people think their AR-15's can protect them from a hypothetical tyrannical government, for some reason, or that their weapons will be useful if we get invaded by a foreign power.

Spoiler Alert: If a foreign power is prepared enough to defeat or bypass our military on our homeland, your guns aren't going to matter either way.