All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Anakin was motivated to stop the death of his lover.

Luke was motivated to abandon his training, despite being told that he wasn’t ready explicitly, to save the lives of his friends.

Herp derp totally different motivations there.

Lol. Derp, Indeed.

 

[gkIrish]

You got me guy. I am still stuck on how Luke's photon torpoedoes made it to the core. Or Han navigated an asteroid field, or how the 2nd Death Star took just long enough to blow up to allow for a harrowing escape by the Falcon.

My only thoughts are the Purple head had a pair balls on her bigger than Poe's head.

The OT set the parameters of what is possible in this universe. The Last Jedi makes it seem like all the OT heroes are pathetic and stupid. Why wouldn't the Rebellion blow up the Death Star if all they had to do was shoot something through it's core at light speed??? Were they just stupid back then?????

OR maybe George Lucas didn't intend for that to be a possibility in this universe and Rian Johnson went for the OOOOHs and AAAAHS approach. Again, it seems like he never watched the OT.

 

[gkIrish]

Why should Luke and Leia be flawless individuals?

The only truly pure character in the entire series is Obi Wan.

Leia and the Resistance lost the support of the Republic, because Imperial sympathizers and profiteers infiltrated the Republic and steered its interest away, convincing everyone that the First Order wasn’t a threat.

As soon as their super weapon is ready, the First Order eliminates the New Republic and puts the Resistance on immediate life support, showing that they are, in fact, a threat. That’s why Leia has no allies... Resistance appears to be futile.

Is this from a book or something?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Meh maybe dial down the rhetoric a bit guy. Both Anakin and Luke were very afraid of losing thise closest to them. Fear leads to the dark side. Lo and behold both end up in the Dark Side.

Sorry, I totally missed that episode where Luke becomes Darth Apocrypha.

 

[Cackalacky]

Sorry, I totally missed that episode where Luke becomes Darth Apocrypha.

Clearly.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I still don't know how Benicio knew about the cloaked transport ships. Maybe in my second watch it'll come up? I did leave to pee. I know this time to go to the bathroom during the casino scenes.

I still don't think this movie is a big steaming pile of crap. I liked what Rian did with Luke (minus the weird scenes right at the beginning), Rey, and Kylo. I did not like what he did with Finn (what a waste of a character now), the secrecy behind the escape plans, and the excessive humor + bloated running time. I still give it a B, but he missed too many shots to get a higher grade. Maybe I'll need to revisit this after another watch

 

[wizards8507]

The only truly pure character in the entire series is Obi Wan.

Obi-Wan boned Satine Kryze.

 

[wizards8507]

Posting mainly to reiterate the problems with Leia and also to point out that yet again, the movie made me question the OT. Why the heck did no one lightsped through the death star core?

Maybe they didn't know it could work? Maybe nobody had the stones?

 

[gkIrish]

Maybe they didn't know it could work? Maybe nobody had the stones?

If no one knew it could work then why did the entire First Order shit their pants immediately when the Resistance ship juiced up? And let say you're right and this was an original idea by Purple Head. Why the hell is she of all people the one to get the glory? Why not Ackbar or even Leia?

As far as courage...the entire Rebellion pretty much knew they would die in the attempt to blow up the Death Star. And in Rogue One we saw that people for sure were willing to die too.

It's just bad writing man. Believe me, I was like whoa...cool when watching that scene during the movie. But after thinking about it, it makes no sense.

 

[IrishLion]

Is this from a book or something?

Yeah, the Aftermath novels and other new canon materials.

The remains of the empire fled to deep space to reorganize with their people and technology, while others "retired" and used their money and influence to take up seats on the new Galactic Senate.

That's why they were able to essentially blackball the Resistance from any potential allies, and why the Republic offered no military help after ~30 years.

Obi-Wan boned Satine Kryze.

Is that still canon?

Even if it's canon/EU, my point was that he's the only character in the films that doesn't have a glaring "flaw," aside from perhaps overconfidence in his abilities to keep Anakin on the up-and-up. Even Yoda experienced a bit of arrogance/blindness in the prequels.

 

[wizards8507]

Yeah, the Aftermath novels and other new canon materials.

The remains of the empire fled to deep space to reorganize with their people and technology, while others "retired" and used their money and influence to take up seats on the new Galactic Senate.

That's why they were able to essentially blackball the Resistance from any potential allies, and why the Republic offered no military help after ~30 years.

Yup, Mon Mothma refused to have any kind of military, which is why Leia had to from the Resistance in the first place.

Is that still canon?

We don't know if they, in fact, boned. But yes, The Clone Wars is canon and Obi-Wan definitely had some kind of romantic involvement with Duchess Satine.

 

[IrishLion]

Also, just want to say that I was really enjoying this back-and-forth until ShamrockOnHelmet told me to go watch Twilight.

Too far, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder.

 

[wizards8507]

Too far, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder.

Han and Luke actually herded nerfs one time.

 

[Domina Nostra]

If no one knew it could work then why did the entire First Order shit their pants immediately when the Resistance ship juiced up? And let say you're right and this was an original idea by Purple Head. Why the hell is she of all people the one to get the glory? Why not Ackbar or even Leia?

As far as courage...the entire Rebellion pretty much knew they would die in the attempt to blow up the Death Star. And in Rogue One we saw that people for sure were willing to die too.

It's just bad writing man. Believe me, I was like whoa...cool when watching that scene during the movie. But after thinking about it, it makes no sense.

The message was clear: no men will save any women in this film.

- RJ set up a whole complicated plot line (including bombs that fall in space) in order to have Leah deride Poe-- the "wreckless flyboy",
- the hero of the bombing mission was a woman, who nobly dropped the bombs
- RJ went out of his way again to humiliate Poe when they show him being disappointed that he doesn't get put in charge,
- Then they make his call purple lady's competency into question and yell at her
- Then they create a whole sub-mission, including a mutiny, that ends up getting half of the resistance killed, just to show again that Poe was wrong and that Purple Lady was right,
- Then they have here make the ultimate sacrifice with the ship.
Also...
- Luke was constantly being taught by Ray, not the other way around (How did she have perfect martial arts form without any training at all?)
- Ray is in the process of saving Kylo
- Rose saves Poe, the hero of the rebellion, and teaches him what true heroism is
- Leah teaches us about the heart of any rebellion: hope
- Ray saves the entire rebellion, she is their hope

But then they took it up a notch. It's not enough to have strong women. They wanted a normal woman prove to be braver and more noble than any man. Purple lady's costume and hair were ridiculous for a military appointed given command in the middle of a battle, but anything less it would have allowed us to box her in as just a stereo-typical Hollywood strong women.

On the other hand:
- Poe blows some stuff up, but gets tons of people killed
- Finn wanders aimlessly, accomplishing nothing
- Kylo Ren has trust issues, and is a mass murderer
- Luke can't get his act together, until he is finally inspired by his female student
- New Order is led by a bunch of male maniacs
- The one New Order exception is Phasma, who RJ has kick Finn's butt--only to be killed when he gets saved by an unexpected CGI elevator.

It was feminism, but taken up two meta-notches from what we are used to.

 

[wizards8507]

The message was clear: no men will save any women in this film.

Except that Kylo saved Rey... and Chewbacca saved loads of people... and Luke saved literally everyone.

 

[IrishLion]

Except that Kylo saved Rey... and Chewbacca saved loads of people... and Luke saved literally everyone.

Lol right?

Luke showed up like the dominating male presence that he is, comforted a weakened Leia, told Kylo Ren to sit down and take notes, and allowed the entire last-ditch effort at survival to work.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I still don't know how Benicio knew about the cloaked transport ships. Maybe in my second watch it'll come up? I did leave to pee. I know this time to go to the bathroom during the casino scenes.

I still don't think this movie is a big steaming pile of crap. I liked what Rian did with Luke (minus the weird scenes right at the beginning), Rey, and Kylo. I did not like what he did with Finn (what a waste of a character now), the secrecy behind the escape plans, and the excessive humor + bloated running time. I still give it a B, but he missed too many shots to get a higher grade. Maybe I'll need to revisit this after another watch

Seriously, did I miss something when I left?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Also, just want to say that I was really enjoying this back-and-forth until ShamrockOnHelmet told me to go watch Twilight.

Too far, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder.

Don’t give in to hate. That leads to the dark side.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Seriously, did I miss something when I left?

He does overhear an exchange Finn has with Poe, but I don’t remember if that plot point was discussed. Since it was just Finns fever dream, it doesn’t really matter....

 

[Domina Nostra]

Lol right?

Luke showed up like the dominating male presence that he is, comforted a weakened Leia, told Kylo Ren to sit down and take notes, and allowed the entire last-ditch effort at survival to work.

No he didn't. The whole point was that the bravado was an illusion and he just distracted the First Order long enough that the Resistance could escape out the back door. And this was in the exact vein that the women had been pushing throughout the film. As Rose told us: "we don't win by killing the people we hate, but by saving the people we love."

He didn't save Leah, he apologized to her for being an a coward and abandoning them, and she accepted his apology.

And ghost Luke telling Kylo Ren to sit down and take notes hardly constitutes a man saving a woman.

 

[wizards8507]

Seriously, did I miss something when I left?

Finn and Rose were talking about it on the stolen ship. The camera lingers on DJ just long enough for you to see him think "this is information I might be able to use."

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Except that Kylo saved Rey... and Chewbacca saved loads of people... and Luke saved literally everyone.

Chewbacca isn’t a man.

 

[zelezo vlk]

He does overhear an exchange Finn has with Poe, but I don’t remember if that plot point was discussed. Since it was just Finns fever dream, it doesn’t really matter....

But Poe doesn't know about the plan at that time, right? It's not a gigantic plot hole, but I couldn't think of a reason how the stuttering del Toro knows the secret plan

 

[wizards8507]

No he didn't. The whole point was that the bravado was an illusion and he just distracted the First Order long enough that the Resistance could escape out the back door.

The bravado wasn't an illusion because Luke ACTUALLY died. He didn't get vaporized by AT-M6 canons, but he still sacrificed his life in an act of bravery.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Finn and Rose were talking about it on the stolen ship. The camera lingers on DJ just long enough for you to see him think "this is information I might be able to use."

Oh hell I definitely missed this part.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

But Poe doesn't know about the plan at that time, right? It's not a gigantic plot hole, but I couldn't think of a reason how the stuttering del Toro knows the secret plan

Hmmm. I think the plan had been revealed at that point. Maybe not.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The bravado wasn't an illusion because Luke ACTUALLY died. He didn't get vaporized by AT-M6 canons, but he still sacrificed his life in an act of bravery.

Bravado isn't bravery.

So he basically knew that astral projecting himself across the universe was going to be so exhausting that it was going to kill him? I guess that is what they were going for.

Hmmm. I think the plan had been revealed at that point. Maybe not.

It had, and the other guy overheard it in the ship when Poe and Finn were talking.

 

[Cackalacky]

The message was clear: no men will save any women in this film.

- RJ set up a whole complicated plot line (including bombs that fall in space) in order to have Leah deride Poe-- the "wreckless flyboy",
- the hero of the bombing mission was a woman, who nobly dropped the bombs
- RJ went out of his way again to humiliate Poe when they show him being disappointed that he doesn't get put in charge,
- Then they make his call purple lady's competency into question and yell at her
- Then they create a whole sub-mission, including a mutiny, that ends up getting half of the resistance killed, just to show again that Poe was wrong and that Purple Lady was right,
- Then they have here make the ultimate sacrifice with the ship.
Also...
- Luke was constantly being taught by Ray, not the other way around (How did she have perfect martial arts form without any training at all?)
- Ray is in the process of saving Kylo
- Rose saves Poe, the hero of the rebellion, and teaches him what true heroism is
- Leah teaches us about the heart of any rebellion: hope
- Ray saves the entire rebellion, she is their hope

But then they took it up a notch. It's not enough to have strong women. They wanted a normal woman prove to be braver and more noble than any man. Purple lady's costume and hair were ridiculous for a military appointed given command in the middle of a battle, but anything less it would have allowed us to box her in as just a stereo-typical Hollywood strong women.

On the other hand:
- Poe blows some stuff up, but gets tons of people killed
- Finn wanders aimlessly, accomplishing nothing
- Kylo Ren has trust issues, and is a mass murderer
- Luke can't get his act together, until he is finally inspired by his female student
- New Order is led by a bunch of male maniacs
- The one New Order exception is Phasma, who RJ has kick Finn's butt--only to be killed when he gets saved by an unexpected CGI elevator.

It was feminism, but taken up two meta-notches from what we are used to.

How I picture you while writing this

 

[Domina Nostra]

How I picture you while writing this

That's because you see things so clearly! Everyone fits neatly into a category.

I had no problem with the The Force Awakens, or Rogue One, both of which had female lead heroes. I loved them both. Ray and Jyn are great characters. Leah from the original series is also a great character (not so much anymore).

This movie was driven by a guy who had no attention to detail, and forced certain themes into the story at the expense of the plot. The feminist stuff was one of them. And, to me, it explains the Purple Lady.

Another example is the casino planet full of arms dealers that they trampled with a herd of space horses and then said, it was worth it. Nonsensical.

 

[wizards8507]

So he basically knew that astral projecting himself across the universe was going to be so exhausting that it was going to kill him?

It seems to be common Force-knowledge. When Kylo and Rey Force-connected (which I see as an extension of the same Force-ability), Kylo said something along the lines of "who is controlling this? It can't be you, Rey, because the effort would kill you."