All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[IrishLion]

U triggered bro?

I need a safe space.

R2, full power to deflector shields. Can't let these haters hit me anymore.

 

[IrishLax]

U triggered bro?

Yes. I found that wildly offensive and emotionally distressing. If there was ever content on the internet that needed a trigger warning, it was that #hottake from hipster Star Wars girl.

 

[ulukinatme]

Hipster girl isn't trolling, at least not at an obvious level imo. Maybe she does it for views, I can't say, but looking at the rest of her videos she seems to be fairly consistent. She seems brainy and nerdy, she's fairly well versed in the different nuances and details of topics (She seems well acquainted in obscure stuff like stories in the Expanded Universe, which tells me she's in deep on a topic and not just Googling some stuff). She certainly has a lot of merchandise too. On some level I think she's a jaded fan, crippled by her own intelligence and hippydom. She probably got into Star Wars at a young age, and now she's overly critical of any material that may appear illogical. On some level maybe she is just trolling for views, but she owns the deadpan presentation and I can't see why she would be doing this as satire because the way she presents her opinion doesn't really make me chuckle. Red Letter Media destroys the Star Wars prequels too, but they do it in a comedic way...although they present actual facts as oppose to opinions so everything they say is actual truth.

 

[greyhammer90]

Hipster girl isn't trolling, at least not at an obvious level imo. Maybe she does it for views, I can't say, but looking at the rest of her videos she seems to be fairly consistent. She seems brainy and nerdy, she's fairly well versed in the different nuances and details of topics (She seems well acquainted in obscure stuff like stories in the Expanded Universe, which tells me she's in deep on a topic and not just Googling some stuff). She certainly has a lot of merchandise too. On some level I think she's a jaded fan, crippled by her own intelligence and hippydom. She probably got into Star Wars at a young age, and now she's overly critical of any material that may appear illogical. On some level maybe she is just trolling for views, but she owns the deadpan presentation and I can't see why she would be doing this as satire because the way she presents her opinion doesn't really make me chuckle. Red Letter Media destroys the Star Wars prequels too, but they do it in a comedic way...although they present actual facts as oppose to opinions so everything they say is actual truth.

I love that people who dislike Rouge One keep getting painted with the "well no Star Wars movie could've possibly made you happy, you're just a jaded older fan." Meanwhile that girl is obviously a huge Force Awakens fan from her prior videos. It's so unbelievable to some of you that a reasonable person could watch that movie and say "Yeah that kinda sucked" that you actually need to create and impose a psychological state of insurmountable cynicism onto them just to stay warm in the comfort of your rightness.

You guys are correct, the latest movie directed by the Godzilla 2014 director and written by the After Earth screenplay writer is an unquestionably "good movie". Anyone who disagrees is either a troll, a sad fanboy who expects too much, or a hipster disliking it to look cool.

 

[IrishLion]

or a hipster disliking it to look cool.

Yes this exactly.

But seriously, I do believe that you and Wiz have good reasons to just not like it because it's not a great film. You put down the evidence, and this is all opinion based anyway.

I just thought your original list of grievances was over-the-top, which is why I took exception. Trying to say that Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and any other members of the Rebellion being present was a "problem" just seemed like an attempt to find more problems where there aren't any.

 

[greyhammer90]

Yes this exactly.

But seriously, I do believe that you and Wiz have good reasons to just not like it because it's not a great film. You put down the evidence, and this is all opinion based anyway.

I just thought your original list of grievances was over-the-top, which is why I took exception. Trying to say that Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and any other members of the Rebellion being present was a "problem" just seemed like an attempt to find more problems where there aren't any.

Considering that Mon Mothma had never been seen anywhere near Yavin IV before I thought it was a pretty obvious nostalgia grab. I wasn't saying that her presence was an immense issue for me. That alone wouldn't have been a big deal if I thought the rest of the movie was good, and I probably shouldn't have even made that list since that's what people seem to think my issues with the movie boil down to. The list was in response to you saying that you thought this movie was less "member-filled" than the Force Awakens. I was just listing all the things that immediately came to mind that were either obvious "member" moments or could have easily been given to new characters to give them more dialogue. It wasn't intended to be an actual serious list of my issues with the movie. The nostalgia moments don't even make up the top 3 reasons I thought the movie was bad, but I did think they were important to note because I hope Disney moves away from the 70s and starts letting us enjoy stories they create. It's a big galaxy, I don't need to keep seeing the same people over and over.

 

[wizards8507]

The nostalgia moments don't even make up the top 3 reasons I thought the movie was bad, but I did think they were important to note because I hope Disney moves away from the 70s and starts letting us enjoy stories they create. It's a big galaxy, I don't need to keep seeing the same people over and over.

Old Republic series, please.

 

[IrishLion]

Will we ever get a live-action Star Wars series?

 

[IrishLax]

I love that people who dislike Rouge One keep getting painted with the "well no Star Wars movie could've possibly made you happy, you're just a jaded older fan." Meanwhile that girl is obviously a huge Force Awakens fan from her prior videos. It's so unbelievable to some of you that a reasonable person could watch that movie and say "Yeah that kinda sucked" that you actually need to create and impose a psychological state of insurmountable cynicism onto them just to stay warm in the comfort of your rightness.

You guys are correct, the latest movie directed by the Godzilla 2014 director and written by the After Earth screenplay writer is an unquestionably "good movie". Anyone who disagrees is either a troll, a sad fanboy who expects too much, or a hipster disliking it to look cool.

This is exactly the problem. If you watch TFA and say "that was awesome!" and watch Rogue One and say "that sucked" it means you have a brain is not working correctly or are trolling. At minimum, she should lose her voting rights and be confined to a mental institution for treatment.

TFA was rife with totally unrealistic and stupid shit, as well as giant gaping plot holes, as well as inconsistent/underdeveloped/oversimplified characters and one giant Mary Sue. You have to gloss over all of that to appreciate what's good in the movie -- which is fine, and what many of us did -- but if you do that, you can't go over Rogue One with a fine tooth comb.

I imagine this girl watching Saving Private Ryan and going

"I mean, all those people on the beach we don't even know them so I don't have any emotional connection. And they all die accidentally, just like... walking or laying there on a beach... that's not interesting or exciting. There's no "noble sacrifice," people just dying haphazardly and the same way. It'd be better if one of the soldiers grabbed a flame thrower and took out like 50 Nazis in a blaze of glory... now THAT would be interesting action. Also, Tom Hanks' character is the same guy when he steps off the boat until he dies. He's static so I don't care about him. He has no character arc by my incorrect definition of a character arc."

I get it, she wants tropes and cliches and cheese. She can't grasp that a bridge movie about war is focused on the struggle of the Rebel Alliance to confront a super weapon not on individuals performing ostensibly unrealistic feats of strength in classic hero tropes. It's a war movie. It's about multiple military operations and the roles static characters -- not the emotional evolution of a specific protected hero or heroine on a personal journey.

 

[wizards8507]

Will we ever get a live-action Star Wars series?

Lots of whispers about Netflix.

 

[IrishLion]

Lots of whispers about Netflix.

That would make me unreasonably giddy, depending on what time-frame they go with.

George Lucas always promised a TV series... good thing a good storyline didn't get exhausted prior to Netflix/HBO/Amazon.

 

[gkIrish]

Will we ever get a live-action Star Wars series?

I'm not sure if they could pull that off. The budget would have to be huge.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm not sure if they could pull that off. The budget would have to be huge.

If ever there were a series that could convince a studio/company to drop a yuge budget, it's Star Wars.

It would have a wider audience than Game of Thrones, and their budget went from "trash" to "we can put dragons in every episode!" because of their following.

 

[wizards8507]

That would make me unreasonably giddy, depending on what time-frame they go with.

George Lucas always promised a TV series... good thing a good storyline didn't get exhausted prior to Netflix/HBO/Amazon.

No credible rumors, but I've heard speculation of a Boba Fett / bounty hunter series. But now it seems like a lot of people are convinced that the third standalone film will be Boba Fett, so that would put a damper on the TV show.

Collider's Jedi Council show is great for this kind of thing. Once a week on Thursdays.

 

[wizards8507]

I get it, she wants tropes and cliches and cheese. She can't grasp that a bridge movie about war is focused on the struggle of the Rebel Alliance to confront a super weapon not on individuals performing ostensibly unrealistic feats of strength in classic hero tropes.

Yeah but you still would tho.

 

[greyhammer90]

This is exactly the problem. If you watch TFA and say "that was awesome!" and watch Rogue One and say "that sucked" it means you have a brain is not working correctly or are trolling. At minimum, she should lose her voting rights and be confined to a mental institution for treatment.

TFA was rife with totally unrealistic and stupid shit, as well as giant gaping plot holes, as well as inconsistent/underdeveloped/oversimplified characters and one giant Mary Sue. You have to gloss over all of that to appreciate what's good in the movie -- which is fine, and what many of us did -- but if you do that, you can't go over Rogue One with a fine tooth comb.

You're acting like anyone who likes TFA didn't also go over it with a fine toothed comb. Everyone did. The movie was still considered good by most despite its major issues because it successfully formed a connection with the main characters and was able to be entertaining throughout. It was also the beginning of a new trilogy and most viewed it as a good "first chapter" that left a lot of interesting concepts unexplored but still available for the future.

I get it, she wants tropes and cliches and cheese. She can't grasp that a bridge movie about war is focused on the struggle of the Rebel Alliance to confront a super weapon not on individuals performing ostensibly unrealistic feats of strength in classic hero tropes. It's a war movie. It's about multiple military operations and the roles static characters -- not the emotional evolution of a specific protected hero or heroine on a personal journey.

(1) Lets not act like cliche and cheese wasn't immensely present in the last thirty minutes of Rouge One. It was. Seriously, the switch is on the other side of the beach and the blind force user walks towards it while another character yells "NO!"? A guy who's lost his friend walks towards the enemy fire and shoots at bad guys in a last stand? A character is killed on screen but comes back in the last minute to shoot the bad guy in the back when the main heroine needs help most? A sidekick locks the doors as his final act just before meeting his death? Those are all incredibly cliche and boring and I've seen them about a hundred times with different shades of paint. It was written like a film student in 101.

(2) The problem isn't that the characters didn't evolve it's that we don't care about the characters. I don't think she literally meant "without an arc no one cares about a character", it's just that personal growth is one of the more common ways to get an audience to identify with a character. It's the easiest. But there are plenty of stories that feature characters without archs that you bond with.

I think it's funny that you bring up Saving Private Ryan because that's a story that not only involves a squad on a suicide mission, but also manages to do everything that Rouge One failed at. You feel emotionally connected to every character because you see them talking and interacting, they express to each other and through their actions that, while they believe in the cause, they want to go home alive and see their families. They discuss the dubious nature of their mission, and question whether or not it is worth their lives. Some of them go through arcs by determining that the mission is important, even if the simple math of saving one man doesn't add up. You see their struggle and their growth over the course of two hours and in the end when they each die (in an almost uniformly non-cliched manner) you feel like you just genuinely lost someone you had become close to.

*EDIT* Also you bring up her critique as though she would judge the ending of one movie the same as the opening of Saving Private Ryan. The "beach scene" is an opening sequence designed to have us understand the perspective of each of the characters because we see what they've each gone through to live to this moment. It's important for that reason. Her critique of not caring comes at the end of the movie. Guess what? Each of the characters in SPR's final scene died meaningful deaths because the film had reinforced the meaning of their death for the last two hours. If SPR's beach scene was the climax of the movie and we didn't know any of those soliders the commentary you mocked would be fair as well, but it was the opening. It wasn't the climax of the movie.

 

[wizards8507]

Plus, TFA was FUN. TFA was Star Wars doing Marvel. Rogue One was Star Wars doing DC/WB.

 

[IrishLion]

A character is killed on screen but comes back in the last minute to shoot the bad guy in the back when the main heroine needs help most?

Was it supposed to be assumed that he was dead?

I assumed that he was just unconscious from the fall, but that it was unrealistic for Jyn to go back down to get him. Everybody knew he was going to wake up and come back to help at some point, but I didn't think it was supposed to be the cliche "he's dead but he's not!" thing.

 

[greyhammer90]

Was it supposed to be assumed that he was dead?

I assumed that he was just unconscious from the fall, but that it was unrealistic for Jyn to go back down to get him. Everybody knew he was going to wake up and come back to help at some point, but I didn't think it was supposed to be the cliche "he's dead but he's not!" thing.

If he's not dead and has just been rendered unconscious, does that make it any better or any less cliche?

 

[IrishLion]

If he's not dead and has just been rendered unconscious, does that make it any better or any less cliche?

If it does, just minutely. I just didn't pick up any inclination that he was dead, so I was surprised to read that you took it that way.

 

[Armyirish47]

If it does, just minutely. I just didn't pick up any inclination that he was dead, so I was surprised to read that you took it that way.

It's classic Chekhov's access ladder stuff.

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm not sure if they could pull that off. The budget would have to be huge.

There were talks of a live action TV series on a major network a few years back before George sold to Disney. It hit a roadblock because they wanted a budget of 3 million per episode.

Edit: It was going to be called Star Wars: Underworld. It was going to take place between episodes 3 & 4, and the budget was actually 5 million an episode. Which is a ton for a basic cable show.

 

[IrishLax]

There were talks of a live action TV series on a major network a few weeks back before George sold to Disney. It hit a roadblock because they wanted a budget of 3 million per episode.

Edit: It was going to be called Star Wars: Underworld. It was going to take place between episodes 3 & 4, and the budget was actually 5 million an episode. Which is a ton for a basic cable show.

Only way to do it right would be to have HBO or Showtime handle it. Even Netflix or Amazon I'd be skeptical.

 

[IrishLion]

I have great faith in Netflix. Their first real batch of original programming was legit, and their efforts to secure "additional seasons" of previously cancelled shows shows a true deference to the fans, IMO. I think they would treat Star Wars well.

 

[GowerND11]

You are asking why character development is important to a story where the climax of the movie is the character's deaths? If I don't care about the characters then why am I watching the movie?

A little late to jump in on this quote... Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see the climax of the movie to be the death of these characters. I saw the climax to be the entire battle. It was all the events coming together, not these characters. I, like gk, felt a connection with the Rebellion, not Jyn or Cassian.

Also, I felt that the real climatic point, to me, was the Rebels trying like hell to get the blueprints to safety while Vader was mauling everyone in his path. While I knew they would eventually make it, I was still very nervous while the door was stuck.

 

[wizards8507]

A little late to jump in on this quote... Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see the climax of the movie to be the death of these characters. I saw the climax to be the entire battle. It was all the events coming together, not these characters. I, like gk, felt a connection with the Rebellion, not Jyn or Cassian.

Also, I felt that the real climatic point, to me, was the Rebels trying like hell to get the blueprints to safety while Vader was mauling everyone in his path. While I knew they would eventually make it, I was still very nervous while the door was stuck.

That doesn't strike you as a flaw in the film? That the primary characters were only tangentially related to the best parts of said film?

 

[ulukinatme]

I love that people who dislike Rouge One keep getting painted with the "well no Star Wars movie could've possibly made you happy, you're just a jaded older fan." Meanwhile that girl is obviously a huge Force Awakens fan from her prior videos. It's so unbelievable to some of you that a reasonable person could watch that movie and say "Yeah that kinda sucked" that you actually need to create and impose a psychological state of insurmountable cynicism onto them just to stay warm in the comfort of your rightness.

You guys are correct, the latest movie directed by the Godzilla 2014 director and written by the After Earth screenplay writer is an unquestionably "good movie". Anyone who disagrees is either a troll, a sad fanboy who expects too much, or a hipster disliking it to look cool.

I should make a point to say that I haven't actually seen Rogue One yet, been busy through the holidays and trying to setup a time to take my daughter at least, if not the whole family. I was basing my opinion of the girl using the other videos on her channel only. It just seemed like her shtick. Like other Youtubbers she reviews various films using a variety of means: Top 10 break downs, creating characters (Or playing existing story characters) for satire purposes, etc. Her delivery is rather deadpan so to speak, and she seems to be fairly consistent in tearing down or at least poking fun at various films. I didn't see a lot of praise on her channel, although I spent maybe 15 minutes there, so it leads me to believe she's either doing it for views and/or she's somewhat jaded and unable to just appreciate a film without being overly critical.

Now, again, I haven't actually seen Rogue One yet, but I've seen some people take the lash to it over the special effects used to resurrect Tarkin, Leia, and a few others like the Red/Gold leaders. Some say it was blatant fan service, but honestly Tarkin was rather central to the entire plot of Episode IV, and with no Emperor in the picture he was the face of the Imperials /w Vader as the enforcer. I'm sure they could have gotten by without adding Leia, but given Rogue One leads right up to IV and Leia was just as much the face of the Rebel cause it's hard not to at least include her. Aside from criticizing it as fan service, some have been critical of the effects themselves...not lifelike enough or some such. I saw the special on ABC, and to me I thought they did a pretty good job:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xMB2sLwz0Do" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishLion]

I thought Tarkin was a real actor lol.

I thought that either the dude who played him in the 70's was probably in his mid-to-late 90's by now and just doing really well, or that they had hit the jackpot in finding a doppelganger.

 

[greyhammer90]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sExTt4j69zI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Starting at 6:43 sounds hilariously familiar.

 

[IrishLion]

"Well, I think you're overlooking the fact of the grittiness of this movie that validates me as an adult who likes a children's fantasy series" LMAO