Al Golden

stlnd01

stlnd01

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Veritate Duce Progredi said:
So....the most vomit inducing scenario is:

We lose on Monday
Golden departs for NFL
Day bolts for NFL
OSU hires Freeman
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What NFL team would hire Ryan Day?

He has the keys to one of the most loaded programs in college football and has - by their standards - underachieved. He no longer calls plays. And he’s a putz.

Maybe the Bears should request an interview.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

Jiggafini19Deux

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I don't think Golden is leaving. If he does, they're going to have options. If they believe promoting Mickens from within is the best possible hire they can make, then so be it. I think that should a scenario play out where Golden is gone, they can find a very good candidate from outside of the program with DC experience. I don't think they're going to be short of coaches who would be interested either. The stability and money are there. The program is on a very solid foundation. That's why I think Golden stays.

If Freeman believes that Mickens can run the defense going forward, it will be because he's spending countless hours every day around Mickens. I think Freeman is a shrewd guy and isn't going to make moves out of sentiment. He learned his lesson from the Ludwig Parker fiasco. There are a lot of people on this board who get attached to good assistant coaches as fans and put a heavy emphasis on the importance of recruiting. I don't want the program to base making decisions on these things, and I don't think they will, so the idea that if Golden leaves Mickens would not be the first choice to replace him is not at all that far fetched within the realm of reality that we don't see in The Gug on a day to day basis.
 
A

ab2cmiller

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IrishWayDomer said:
Sampson said on today's podcast he doesn't think Mickens would be the choice from what he's heard. Seems crazy.
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Some similar parallels to Hartline @ pOSU. Hartline did amazing work with wide receiver recruitment and development. I think pOSU was feeling pressure to give him the OC reigns because they didn't want to lose him. Promoted him, not even sure if he called plays his one year in charge. Evidently they knew he didn't have the juice, because they went out and got Chip Kelly.

I have no idea if Mickens would make a good DC or not. I do know that promoting a guy out of fear of losing him to some other university is not a winning idea.
 
Crazy Balki

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Jiggafini19Deux said:
I think it's possible that collectively as a message board we overvalue Mickens' potential as the Defensive Coordinator of Notre Dame. I mean, if promoting him is the best move available to the program should Golden leave, by all means do that. I just think there are better options should that time come. Not to mention the situation in terms of the program's standing compared to 6 months ago has changed drastically and there are probably a lot of guys who are now interested that maybe where not before.

IDK, nothing against Mickens, but I think we've built him up into something when in reality they could probably go out and land a stud DC without having to go on the cheap. We're in a whole new era now.
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Not to say you're completely wrong, but Mickens has earned every bit of the reputation he's received. He's learned under Golden for the past 3 seasons, prior to that, he worked with Freeman for several years both at ND and at Cincinnati. ND has done everything in their power to cling onto him. Freeman obviously sees a great developer and an innovative defensive mind.

There's also something to continuity. Mickens knows how Golden and Freeman operate and what to get from the defense. He's learned the tendencies of the scheme, he knows his players, especially the secondary, which he fully oversees.

I think this year was a perfect example of why Mickens would make a great DC. This year was a trial run, as he was given more responsibility and was more involved in how the defense was built and ran. The corners didn't drop off with Mickens having to divide his attention away, and in fact, this was arguably his best coached year for the corners, as well as the safeties.

It also helps that Freeman will still be here and he's still heavily involved in the defensive game plan and will be behind Mickens every step of the way. This is why having Denbrock is such a crucial factor, because it allows Freeman to be more hands off with the offense, as he knows Denbrock knows what he's doing.
 
IrishLax

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Veritate Duce Progredi said:
I don't think it's people wanting to go cheap or internal.

I think Mickens has shown an unmatched ability to identify talent and coach it up quickly and we've never had that in the secondary at this level. Losing that, which is a potential, if we go out and hire a stud DC without giving Mickens the opportunity would result in at least two key members from the defensive staff being replaced.

It's such a tightrope, I don't think any of us believe Mickens should be elevated if Freeman believes someone else is better prepared for the role. Mickens and Golden have worked magic together so it's tough to imagine either/both not being a part of the future.

Just a reminder, Mickens identified the #60 ranked CB and turned him into the freshman defensive player of the year and a top 3-5 CB in college football. Before that, there was Hamilton, Morrison, X. Watts, C. Gray, all the excellent nickels.
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The thing is continuity is usually > then hitting the reset button if things are going well.

Diaco leaves, Kelly gets BVG who had a great resume. Almost costs Kelly his job and a truly talented 2015 offense + Jaylon Smith gets wasted.

Elko leaves, they go internal with unproven Clark Lea to run the same system. Go to two playoffs with elite defenses.

If Golden leaves, I will be disappointed if they haven’t been grooming an understudy. And personally I’d be surprised if Golden left although he clearly will be receiving many great offers and something might be too good for him to pass up.
 
N

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Crazy Balki said:
The NFL is ruthless and cutthroat.

Taylor has missed the playoffs 2 years in a row. And while the offense was good this year, it was very average the year prior. A lot of volatility in Taylor's run.

He could jump to Cincy and turn that defense around and the Bengals could be in good shape. But Taylor is also another mediocre year away from getting the axe, and Golden is gone with him.

I get that you'd want to return to the league, and IIRC, he has a kid(s) who go to school in Cincinnati. But is it worth leaving a very lucrative, stable and successful post at ND?

Regardless, I think ND is going to carry on without a hitch, because as others have attested, Mickens is the clear next DC and Marcus Freeman is a seasoned defensive play caller. They're going to be more than fine there. Golden is a great DC, no question, but people tend to forget, so was Marcus. And I'm 100% confident that Mickens will be one too. He's spent years learning under Freeman and Golden.
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Yes, I agree with all of that. Fair play.
 
Giddyup

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I think Mickens would *probably be a great DC but I’d hire some experience at DB/DL? coach to collaborate in case
 
Bane

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Domina Nostra said:
I disagree with this completely. It's like saying Freeman was the "cheap" option. He may have been an unknown and therefore a risk. But he was a calculated risk, not a bargain choice.

Mickens would not be the "cheap" option. He is clearly an outstanding coach and recruiter. If they think they need to give him help adjusting, they can go get an experienced coach as an assistant DC.
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I think a few other things to consider with promoting Mickens:
-3 years ago it was a huge asset to hire a former HC as DC because Freeman had not only never been a HC before, but was still a relatively young coordinator and only had 1 year of P5 DC experience under him.
-Freeman now not only has experience as a HC, but incredibly good experience as a HC, promoting a young coach to DC isn't as big of a gamble, because MF has his position locked in a little better
-Freeman is a defensive coach, so he could really mentor Mickens.

I'm not convinced Golden actually leaves, but if he does, I think Mickens is a fine overall choice.
 
Giddyup

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Freeman has a whole program to oversee. I doubt he’d want to be training coaches too, in that hypothetical
 
Bane

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Giddyup said:
Freeman has a whole program to oversee. I doubt he’d want to be training coaches too, in that hypothetical
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I assume that a head coach is always developing the people under him. I'm not talking about babysitting him, I'm talking about training and development, which I think is a valid HC responsibility.
 
IrishLion

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If your thought process includes banking on the Bengals firing Taylor if they miss the playoffs again next year, you aren’t familiar enough with Mike Brown (Katie and Troy Blackburn) lol.

Taylor is a good offensive coach, if not a little too generic and overly-reliant on Burrow’s wizardry at times (but who wouldn’t be; if you have Joe Burrow, you’re gonna let him cook).

The Bengals just turned in the best offensive year the franchise has ever had, and they did it with zero complimentary football from the defense or special teams, and behind an offensive line that needs to get A LOT better at protecting the franchise QB.

After witnessing the slack Marvin Lewis got from Brown during the Dalton run, I can’t imagine Taylor gets the axe for any reason next year, other than maybe Burrow telling everyone he’s gonna retire if there isn’t a coaching change. And even then, Brown is stubborn enough that he might dig in just because. So IF Golden took the job, I’d imagine it would take Taylor wasting at least another two years of Burrow and Chase before a change was made.

(Mike Brown [Katie Blackburn] is too slow to act… but I honestly just think he’s a loyal dude that refuses to turn his franchise into a clown show for even a brief period of time, even if it meant putting the franchise on a better course after the initial shitstorm. But idk.)
 
zelezo vlk

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IrishLion said:
If your thought process includes banking on the Bengals firing Taylor if they miss the playoffs again next year, you aren’t familiar enough with Mike Brown (Katie and Troy Blackburn) lol.

Taylor is a good offensive coach, if not a little too generic and overly-reliant on Burrow’s wizardry at times (but who wouldn’t be; if you have Joe Burrow, you’re gonna let him cook).

The Bengals just turned in the best offensive year the franchise has ever had, and they did it with zero complimentary football from the defense or special teams, and behind an offensive line that needs to get A LOT better at protecting the franchise QB.

After witnessing the slack Marvin Lewis got from Brown during the Dalton run, I can’t imagine Taylor gets the axe for any reason next year, other than maybe Burrow telling everyone he’s gonna retire if there isn’t a coaching change. And even then, Brown is stubborn enough that he might dig in just because. So IF Golden took the job, I’d imagine it would take Taylor wasting at least another two years of Burrow and Chase before a change was made.

(Mike Brown [Katie Blackburn] is too slow to act… but I honestly just think he’s a loyal dude that refuses to turn his franchise into a clown show for even a brief period of time, even if it meant putting the franchise on a better course after the initial shitstorm. But idk.)
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(Per NFL guys) A big reason I heard that Marvin Lewis had such a long leash is that he rose the Titanic. The Bengals were legitimately an awful franchise and laughing stock and he made them not just frisky but a perennial playoff team for years. That was pretty much unthinkable when he took the job. Yeah Zac Taylor made it to a Super Bowl but I’m not sure he gets the same leeway that Marvin did.
 
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