A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[mgriff]

The prophecy is a major point to follow. Lore and prophecy are huge in this series and are actually more historically accurate than the maesters, and other historical records, as the Oldtown contingent has been actively trying to consolidate power. Old Nan's stories are rock solid historical accounts and I really think she's connected to the CotF somehow.

 

[ACamp1900]

haha.






Sounds like ACamp.

Well at least he called me brilliant...........


Anyway, Jon Snow.... Edward and Lyanna Stark.... Ohhhhhhhhhhhh SNAP

 

[mgriff]

R+L=J

 

[ACamp1900]

What does that mean griff???... Im lost... lol

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I think he means Rhegar+Leyanna=Jon

ignore my spelling.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What does that mean griff???... Im lost... lol

I think he means Rhegar+Leyanna=Jon

Of all the many fan theories out there, this one has the most support. You can read all about it here if you're interested.

Jon is basically the main character. His is the song of ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen).

 

[Whiskeyjack]

R + L = J

R + L = J

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One of the most important passages of the entire series.

 

[ACamp1900]

Ha I was just discussing this on another board... I think Jon's parentage is one of the more interesting aspects of the series.

 

[NDinMich]

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One of the most important passages of the entire series.

POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!! Don't scroll down unless you want a spoiler...potentially.








So, the thinking here is that Jon is from Targaryen lineage? I never picked up on that?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!! Don't scroll down unless you want a spoiler...potentially.

So, the thinking here is that Jon is from Targaryen lineage? I never picked up on that?

Ha! Yes. It's one of the best supported fan theories out there. Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targayen and Lyanna Stark. His is the "Song of Ice and Fire".

 

[ClausentoTate]

Apparently the first book years ago featured Jon Snow pretty much exclusively on the cover, plus all of the hints along the way. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if the author changes what was going to happen just to spite the readers.

 

[ClausentoTate]

I am pretty sure that's a lie/ false rumor... The OG cover is red with a pair of dragon hands holding up a knight on a horse in front of a random castle.... At least I think so

 

[ACamp1900]

Salon Futura » The Salon: Making A Book Cover

Not the OG cover apparently....

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Robert v. Rhaegar at the Trident

Robert v. Rhaegar at the Trident

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Just stumbled upon a compelling fan theory for Oathkeeper being Lightbringer:

When speculating on the nature of the weapon Lightbringer, I think people have fallen into the trap of only considering what the sword IS, whether if the flaming sword is in the hands of Stannis but merely incomplete or if it is only a metaphor for the Night's Watch (Jon) or Dragons (Dany). While focusing on the IS allows many possibilities, looking at the HOW allows just one. The only weapon that both matches the prophecy 1 to 1 so far and has the potential to fully fulfill the prophecy is the sword Oathkeeper.
1 - Forged in water as Eddard's greatsword Ice.
2 - Reforged in a lion's breast as the Lannister sword Oathkeeper.
3 - This is the part that is speculation, but I am very confident in it, Brienne will be forced to drive Oathkeeper into Catelyn Tully's (the wife of the swords' original owner) heart and thus shatter both her own oaths and her swords' name. When she pulls the sword out it will inherit the flame passed down from R'hllor to Beric and from Beric to Catelyn, and burst into flames as the sword Lightbringer
Water, Lion, Wife - if Brienne kills Catelyn then the prophecy is matched word for word. This does not necessarily mean that Brienne is THE Azor Ahai, but she will be the sword's forger.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Just stumbled upon a compelling fan theory for Oathkeeper being Lightbringer:

I wouldn't be surprised if that is on the right track but isn't the one who draws it from the fire supposed to be AA? I don't think it fits the prophesy for the sword to be created and then turned over to AA.

 

[ACamp1900]

Wait, if memory serves Brienne was killed by Cat... not the other way round... no?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Wait, if memory serves Brienne was killed by Cat... not the other way round... no?

No. She appears in one of the Jaime's POV chapters in ADwD, apparently leading him into a trap set by Catelyn.

 

[mgriff]

 

[mgriff]

Cat didnt' kill Brienne. GRRM has said you need to see the body for it to be true in his books, and even then, with UnCat, you're still not sure.

AA did pull LIghtbringer from Nissa Nissa, but I don't know if that has to be the case for prophetic fulfillment.

 

[ACamp1900]

No. She appears in one of the Jaime's POV chapters in ADwD, apparently leading him into a trap set by Catelyn.

I just finished that book... I read that chapter not sure what to make of it... real, dream, really Brienne??... much of it didn't make sense or add up...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I just finished that book... I read that chapter not sure to make of it... real, dream, really Brienne... much of it didn't make sense.

ADwD, Chapter 48, Jaime:

Brienne appears briefly at Pennytree when Jaime camps there, whatever word she shouted apparently making the Brotherhood spare her. She asks Jaime to help her save Sansa Stark from the Hound, claiming they are a day's ride away. She tells Jaime, however, that he must go with her alone, or the Hound will kill Sansa.

There's no indication that it's a dream. The story about the Hound and Sansa is pretty obviously a lie designed to lead Jaime into a Brotherhood trap. Once that happens, the above theory seems to imply that either (1) Brienne will kill Jaime; or (2) Jaime/ Brienne will kill Catelyn, thereby forging Oathkeeper into Lightbringer.

 

[ACamp1900]

She's as dead as Jon until further notice...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

She's as dead as Jon until further notice...

wut?

She appears, alive, in ADwD. Martin's dream sequences are always obvious and heavily symbolic; there's no way Chapter 48 isn't exactly what it seems to be.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Well, is there a chance someone other than John is AA? Jaime wouldn't be a bad candidate, if so. He could get a new hand from a red priest like Victarion did (thus being reborn in the warrior sense) and I think he will be the one to take out Cierce - who is kinda sorta his "wife."

EDIT: now that I think about it, Cierce will probably be torn limb from limb by an angry mob for poetic justice reasons.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Well, is there a chance someone other than John is AA? Jaime wouldn't be a bad candidate, if so. He could get a new hand from a red priest like Victarion did (thus being reborn in the warrior sense) and I think he will be the one to take out Cierce - who is kinda sorta his "wife."

Jaime could be Brienne's Nissa Nissa, or visa versa.

EDIT: now that I think about it, Cierce will probably be torn limb from limb by an angry mob for poetic justice reasons.

Do you remember the prophecies of Maggy the Frog?

Cersei:"Will the king and I have children?"
Maggy:"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."
Maggy:"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Valonqar means "little brother" in Valyrian. Since Jaime is the younger twin, there's a very good chance either he or Tyrion kills Cersei.

 

[ACamp1900]

wut?

She appears, alive, in ADwD. Martin's dream sequences are always obvious and heavily symbolic; there's no way Chapter 48 isn't exactly what it seems to be.

Sure there is, what she said and did in that chapter made no sense... Maybe she's lady stoneheart's new wraith knight... who the hell knows... I am sure an explaination MAY come at some point...

 

[ACamp1900]

I would love to see Bran (little bro) mind fvk the crap out of her and make her choke herself....


/series.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

OK, went and re-read the various prophesies and Snow has a vision where he holds a flaming sword so it seems fairly certain that he is AA. I've got no guesses for how he might end up with Brienne's sword, though.

At any rate, The provenance of John's sword seems to be somewhat important in the books but without a currently known purpose. I wonder what's up with that? Maybe it's just foreshadowing that he would inherit Mormont's station but it seems a little hamfisted if that's the only purpose it serves.

 

[ACamp1900]

SPOILERS MOTHER****ER! TURN BACK NOW! This really is your last warning because the paragraph after this will ruin your ****ing day if you haven't read all five books or don't want to find **** out!

Hahah yes. That seems to be hinted at very strongly through the information in the books, from the tournament at Harrenhal, where Rhaegar proclaims Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. His wife couldn't have any more children, and Rhaegar was very bookish as a youth, until one day he said he needed to be a knight. Did he know he had to produce The Prince that Was Promised through prophecy, by uniting Ice and Fire Stark/Targaryen? I don't know, but by the events at the Tower of Joy and Lyanna's lack of love for Robert, despite being betrothed to him, suggests she wasn't crazy about marrying him and that it wasn't kidnapping and rape. She makes Ned promise and why else would the Kingsguard be waiting at the ToJ when Rhaegar and the rest of the Targaryens were elsewhere? There had to be a member of the royal family present at the ToJ. Methinks it was Jon, and Ned had to foster him to protect him from Robert.

One thing sits strange with me here though...

Why not tell Cat...??? That was clearly a chasm in their relationship, you'd think he would have at least shared with her that the boy isn't really his, he promised to foster the child and is bound by honor through a death bed promise to not share anything beyond that... to let his wife think what she did all of those years is beyond stupid if this theory is on point... unless he flat out didn't trust her??, which never appeared to be the case.

That aspect of it has always sat strange with that whole theory...