'21 IL QB JJ McCarthy (Michigan Verbal)

[ab2cmiller]

3 new CB's for Michigan today including Wiltfong

 

[greyhammer90]

3 new CB's for Michigan today including Wiltfong

Gross.

 

[BobbyMac]

Wiltfong, Trieu and one of the MI analysts CB'd him to Ann Arbor.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I'm going to be sick

 

[NDIrish88]

I didn't search the entire thread or buchner's thread but something seems odd. Can somebody remind me of the ND JJ Bucnher situation? Who thinks buchner is better than JJ or vice versa? Why did osu take mccord over JJ? Why does 247 have JJ ranked higher than both buchner and mccord?

IMO buchner and JJ are equal. I like both and both are better than McCord. I get buchner matured quicker physically but JJ looks confident in every throw and can sling it. hope ND doesn't regret this. . . .

 

[Luckylucci]

Nothing odd. Obviously, ND and OSU like other guys more. Moving on

 

[greyhammer90]

I didn't search the entire thread or buchner's thread but something seems odd. Can somebody remind me of the ND JJ Bucnher situation? Who thinks buchner is better than JJ or vice versa? Why did osu take mccord over JJ? Why does 247 have JJ ranked higher than both buchner and mccord?

IMO buchner and JJ are equal. I like both and both are better than McCord. I get buchner matured quicker physically but JJ looks confident in every throw and can sling it. hope ND doesn't regret this. . . .

If your opinion is that JJ and Buchner are equal, then it's just as likely that they would regret taking JJ if Buchner wanted to commit to ND? Seems like heartburn over something that we can't know.

 

[BobbyMac]

They may end up equal but as of now they are two completely different prospects. Buchner matured much earlier, has skill position athleticism, looked like a P5 prospect as a freshman and didn't play as a soph.

JJ's the opposite in every aspect.

If Buchner was from Nazareth and McCarthy was from La Jolla, this wouldn't be as big of a deal but skipping a kid named McCarthy from a Catholic feeder in Chicago's SW Burbs after a championship season like he engineered is gonna raise questions.

The legitimate What If's can be asked this fall once there's some Jr film available and the data points are on equal footing.

 

[Irish#1]

They may end up equal but as of now they are two completely different prospects. Buchner matured much earlier, has skill position athleticism, looked like a P5 prospect as a freshman and didn't play as a soph.

JJ's the opposite in every aspect.

If Buchner was from Nazareth and McCarthy was from La Jolla, this wouldn't be as big of a deal but skipping a kid named McCarthy from a Catholic feeder in Chicago's SW Burbs after a championship season like he engineered is gonna raise questions.

The legitimate What If's can be asked this fall once there's some Jr film available and the data points are on equal footing.

The days of ND offering every Catholic kid that can play are long gone.

 

[Naz2002]

Well geez look at this....

What do you all want to know?

 

[Irish YJ]

Well geez look at this....

What do you all want to know?

Absolutely everything please.... PM if not able to post

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Absolutely everything please.... PM if not able to post

Agreed. I'd like to know everything you can share.

 

[Naz2002]

Absolutely everything please.... PM if not able to post

Love’s wouldn’t be happy I posted but no more Love kids at ND so w/e...

I personally hate everything about the way Julian’s decision (pre and post) was handled by the whole staff sans Lyght but the real onus falls on Kelly and only Kelly. I don’t fault a DC etc for doing what Kelly wants.

I hate the way Michael Love’s recruitment was handled by all.

I also hate the way JJ’s recruitment was handled. They are very clearly not looking long term because “they are ND”.

To most of you guys it’s no big deal, you’re not personally invested and I get that, but I am. There’s a great chance I blew things out of proportion but those are my guys, I’ve known all involved since they were little kids. If they aren’t treated right I am going now to get upset even if it’s my lifelong favorite team. ND lost a little of its luster this past year to me. I hate to say that but it is what it is. I’m able to separate people from the institution and my issues are Brian Kelly related but it’s hard for me to unconditionally love that place right now when he’s the head guy and he’s done my kids wrong. I’m still and ND guy. I’ve been to lacrosse and baseball games since my anger came to a head. I cheered my ass off for WBB and Hockey despite this. I’m going crazy with every Connaughton basket. Being in my position and having seen the bad side I should probably keep my mouth shut let it go but easier said than done when it comes to my guys.

 

[Naz2002]

Agreed. I'd like to know everything you can share.

Didn’t get into tremendous detail but I had a few pops and popped in to see what people where saying about Mills who I heard some info on. Saw this and figured I should show my face since I saw multiple people ask.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Love’s wouldn’t be happy I posted but no more Love kids at ND so w/e...

I personally hate everything about the way Julian’s decision (pre and post) was handled by the whole staff sans Lyght but the real onus falls on Kelly and only Kelly. I don’t fault a DC etc for doing what Kelly wants.

I hate the way Michael Love’s recruitment was handled by all.

I also hate the way JJ’s recruitment was handled. They are very clearly not looking long term because “they are ND”.

To most of you guys it’s no big deal, you’re not personally invested and I get that, but I am. There’s a great chance I blew things out of proportion but those are my guys, I’ve known all involved since they were little kids. If they aren’t treated right I am going now to get upset even if it’s my lifelong favorite team. ND lost a little of its luster this past year to me. I hate to say that but it is what it is. I’m able to separate people from the institution and my issues are Brian Kelly related but it’s hard for me to unconditionally love that place right now when he’s the head guy and he’s done my kids wrong. I’m still and ND guy. I’ve been to lacrosse and baseball games since my anger came to a head. I cheered my ass off for WBB and Hockey despite this. I’m going crazy with every Connaughton basket. Being in my position and having seen the bad side I should probably keep my mouth shut let it go but easier said than done when it comes to my guys.

I assume the staff did not want him going to the draft. Given where he was selected, do you believe it was the right choice?

I understand you likely can't go into details, and I'd honestly rather you not on an open forum, but what should the staff do if they have people ranked ahead of Michael Love?

Also, what should they do with JJ? If they like other kids better, how should they handle it while keeping contact/interest?

I personally love JJs film, I was ambivalent on M.Love and Julian was a toss-up (obviously I was wrong).

There is just so much to balance, it's probably impossible to not offend during the recruiting process.

 

[Naz2002]

I assume the staff did not want him going to the draft. Given where he was selected, do you believe it was the right choice?

I understand you likely can't go into details, and I'd honestly rather you not on an open forum, but what should the staff do if they have people ranked ahead of Michael Love?

Also, what should they do with JJ? If they like other kids better, how should they handle it while keeping contact/interest?

I personally love JJs film, I was ambivalent on M.Love and Julian was a toss-up (obviously I was wrong).

There is just so much to balance, it's probably impossible to not offend during the recruiting process.

Good questions, I understand it’s a tough balancing act. I understand it’s a business but transparency is important to me. My guys have always been honest, they don’t play the game. Julian was open and honest in that he would commit on the spot if offered. In theory it may have slowed an ND offer, it definitely slowed other programs interest. It probably affected his rankings etc but none of that stuff means anything. It’s ok that JJ was their #2 QB, I vehemently disagree but there will be doubters, there will be people and teams that like other guys. That’s ok but ND never told JJ he was #2, they handled him like he was #1, they hinted at offers and asked him to drop everything multiple times to use him to pressure Buchner. They told JJ they were offering when he visited, then Buchner committed. Everything was calculated and JJ was used as a pawn. It’s ok for them to like Buchner more, they’re wrong but the honesty would have gone a long way. Heck if something happened down the road JJ would have had interest. Now he’s dying to beat ND and I don’t blame him.

As for Michael they just stopped communicating with him out of thin air. He was a recruit until he wasn’t. He went to games with families tickets second half of the year, not as a recruit, they didn’t call or check in. They just dropped him out of no where. When you’re JR All-American has eligibility left it’s probably not smart to not return his brother’s calls. Height isn’t Michael’s friend and I certainly understand ND passing on him but most schools had the balls to be honest. ND didn’t, they just ignored him instead.

As for Julian... One coach advised him to leave, he absolutely made the right decision. His “weaknesses” do not get strengthened with another year at ND. What that kid did for you all on this board, those teammates and coaches can not be understated. He laid it all out there daily, all the while he was a great person, student, teammate, friend, son, brother etc. He was the epitome of what a Notre Dame man is. Every single engagement ND brought Julian, he spoke to alumni associations, become their poster boy etc. Julian loved his teammates and really strongly considered coming back knowing he had nothing to gain. Ultimately a head start on his SECOND contract was too important to pass up. His career could end at any time, he needs to go get his bag while he can. To tell him he made a mistake and then not speak to him is what I’d expect a toddler to do. You don’t treat a kid that you made one of the faces of your program like that.

 

[calvegas04]

delete please

 

[DONTH8]

Love’s wouldn’t be happy I posted but no more Love kids at ND so w/e...

I personally hate everything about the way Julian’s decision (pre and post) was handled by the whole staff sans Lyght but the real onus falls on Kelly and only Kelly. I don’t fault a DC etc for doing what Kelly wants.

I hate the way Michael Love’s recruitment was handled by all.

I also hate the way JJ’s recruitment was handled. They are very clearly not looking long term because “they are ND”.

To most of you guys it’s no big deal, you’re not personally invested and I get that, but I am. There’s a great chance I blew things out of proportion but those are my guys, I’ve known all involved since they were little kids. If they aren’t treated right I am going now to get upset even if it’s my lifelong favorite team. ND lost a little of its luster this past year to me. I hate to say that but it is what it is. I’m able to separate people from the institution and my issues are Brian Kelly related but it’s hard for me to unconditionally love that place right now when he’s the head guy and he’s done my kids wrong. I’m still and ND guy. I’ve been to lacrosse and baseball games since my anger came to a head. I cheered my ass off for WBB and Hockey despite this. I’m going crazy with every Connaughton basket. Being in my position and having seen the bad side I should probably keep my mouth shut let it go but easier said than done when it comes to my guys.

This is the most important part of your post. I take no offense for someone sticking up for their guys. I find that an admirable quality.

But loyalty can (and usually does) lead to bias, which can (and usually does) harm good judgement. I bet the kids are unbelievable guys and deserve everything good this world has to offer. Mistreatment befalls us all, and should only lead to them being better for it. And with guys like you around them, I'm sure it will. But I truly think if you take a step back, you will see ND staff probably didn't do as much wrong as you may think, as was pointed out by the post above me. At the end of the day it's business, not personal. So do your best to not make it personal. Life is much more enjoyable as such.

 

[Naz2002]

This is the most important part of your post. I take no offense for someone sticking up for their guys. I find that an admirable quality.

But loyalty can (and usually does) lead to bias, which can (and usually does) harm good judgement. I bet the kids are unbelievable guys and deserve everything good this world has to offer. Mistreatment befalls us all, and should only lead to them being better for it. And with guys like you around them, I'm sure it will. But I truly think if you take a step back, you will see ND staff probably didn't do as much wrong as you may think, as was pointed out by the post above me. At the end of the day it's business, not personal. So do your best to not make it personal. Life is much more enjoyable as such.

JJ is 16, he’s not a business man, he can’t buy cigarettes or join the army. He’s a kid, I have issues with him being used as a bargaining chip. I’m not here to sway people’s opinions of Kelly. It happens at most places but as an ND fan it’s pretty disheartening to me, hence my disappearance. You guys wanted an explanation so there it is, not asking anyone to join me.

 

[Naz2002]

delete please

Why?

 

[T-Boone]

It’s ok that JJ was their #2 QB, I vehemently disagree but there will be doubters, there will be people and teams that like other guys. That’s ok but ND never told JJ he was #2, they handled him like he was #1, they hinted at offers and asked him to drop everything multiple times to use him to pressure Buchner. They told JJ they were offering when he visited, then Buchner committed. Everything was calculated and JJ was used as a pawn. It’s ok for them to like Buchner more, they’re wrong but the honesty would have gone a long way. Heck if something happened down the road JJ would have had interest. Now he’s dying to beat ND and I don’t blame him.

Sounds louzy, maybe ND should have offered both and taken both or either.
But also maybe with the contact they had Buckner made a better impression, like that he would commit straight away, while JJ could have been saying "I also like Michigan" which should be a bad sign.

 

[Irish YJ]

I hope they don't delete.
If true, and I have no reason to doubt based on past info, truth is truth.

Anyway, sounded pretty icky the way things were handled in all 3 cases. Making decisions is one thing, not returning calls, ghosting folks, etc. just isn't cool. The timing too around JJ seems pretty suspect as well.

 

[Naz2002]

Sounds louzy, maybe ND should have offered both and taken both or either.

I’m not saying that. They evaluated Buchner as their #1 guy and they landed him so it worked out. That lends credence to not offering JJ, that’s not where my frustrations lie. There was absolutely no reason to lead him on there. He would have been on the hook without an offer if they simply would have said they were waiting to see how things transpired with Buchner. JJ doesn’t have an ego where he needs to be told he’s #1, he will make what he deems to be the best decision at the end of the day and of his offer is commutable at that time he won’t care if he’s QB1 or QB6.

I hate this everyday but the guy who’s been the most transparent and has done the best job recruiting him has been Harbaugh and that’s why he’ll land JJ.

 

[Naz2002]

I hope they don't delete.
If true, and I have no reason to doubt based on past info, truth is truth.

Anyway, sounded pretty icky the way things were handled in all 3 cases. Making decisions is one thing, not returning calls, ghosting folks, etc. just isn't cool. The timing too around JJ seems pretty suspect as well.

I have no reason to lie. I love ND with every fiber of my being. I did everything in my power to deliver JLove and would have helped deliver JJ too. It didn’t work out and that stinks but there’s things to learn. I absolutely can be a better person, not take things so personal, not fly off the handle and denounce ND. That was childish, I’m not above it, I’m human. Obviously so is Kelly and I really do hope he and the staff learn from all past recruiting mistakes, not just the ones above. Relationships are key and we have a 2022 star they’re probably going to want... I can guarantee that one won’t happen and it has nothing to do with me.

 

[fightingirish26]

Good questions, I understand it’s a tough balancing act. I understand it’s a business but transparency is important to me. My guys have always been honest, they don’t play the game. Julian was open and honest in that he would commit on the spot if offered. In theory it may have slowed an ND offer, it definitely slowed other programs interest. It probably affected his rankings etc but none of that stuff means anything. It’s ok that JJ was their #2 QB, I vehemently disagree but there will be doubters, there will be people and teams that like other guys. That’s ok but ND never told JJ he was #2, they handled him like he was #1, they hinted at offers and asked him to drop everything multiple times to use him to pressure Buchner. They told JJ they were offering when he visited, then Buchner committed. Everything was calculated and JJ was used as a pawn. It’s ok for them to like Buchner more, they’re wrong but the honesty would have gone a long way. Heck if something happened down the road JJ would have had interest. Now he’s dying to beat ND and I don’t blame him.

The stuff with the Love's doesn't sound great but the bolded I kind of have a hard time sympathizing with. Hinting at offers does not necessitate being #1 on the board. He knew that we offered one QB in Buchner, who was clearly #1. This was the case for as long as they have been in contact. Obviously, any program would begin dialogue with their #2 Qb prospect once that prospect starts to heat up and the #1 target is remaining uncommitted. JJ knew from the very start that he was #2, and that's how it remained throughout. Hinting at an offer in the coming months really isn't misleading either, because if Buchner didn't commit that offer would have come. You see him as a pawn but it's just smart recruiting. I understand wanting your guy to get that offer. But you also have to take emotions out of a business like college football sometimes unfortunately. If JJ felt like the #1 guy without receiving an offer, that's on him.

 

[BobbyMac]

Saved to Word before the delete. Read tomorrow.

What's up Naz?! Thanks for the info!

 

[rtrn2glory]

Having a brother that went through the process almost ten years ago I can sympathize with the dirtiness of the business. Bottom line is if they stop talking to you there's a reason. And since having some players go through the same process I have a better idea of how it works. It is dirty how they treat these kids as a piece of meat but that's the reality of the situation. Not saying I agree with it but unfortunately that's just the way it is.

 

[calvegas04]

I hate this everyday but the guy who’s been the most transparent and has done the best job recruiting him has been Harbaugh and that’s why he’ll land JJ.

Hope the kid makes it to the NFL or whatever he wants to become, but if he goes to michigan I hope he never wins a game in his college career.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

I’ve trained many high school athletes who went through the exact same thing. My message was always the same. Do not take it personal, it’s business.

 

[dad4aa]

Hope the kid makes it to the NFL or whatever he wants to become, but if he goes to michigan I hope he never wins a game in his college career.

He won’t do well at Michigan. Name one QB besides Luck that developed/improved under Harbaugh. I also doubt Harbaugh will be there through JJ’s 4 years.