'21 CA QB Tyler Buchner (ND FB -> Bama FB -> ND LAX???)

[Chicago Domer]

Nothing else football going on, so one day when he was apparently trying something different with his throwing style or possibly injured and we go bonkers. Nice to be back talking about something besides COVID-19, protests and recruiting.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

https://twitter.com/mattfreemanISD/status/1278163319476686849?s=09

Another angle for those needing more proof

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[calvegas04]

Day two footage

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/12661/video-notre-dame-qb-commit-tyler-buchner-pro-day-elite-11/1

 

[T-Boone]

For every Trevor Lawrence who wins the Elite 11, there is a Blake Barnett.

When I read stuff with people questioning "velocity" and "arm strength" I had to go watch the clips because I didn't understand how that was possible. After watching them, I get it, but it raised completely different questions. No clue why he wasn't just ripping it and instead "pushing" the ball like he was trying to guide it somewhere. Was he coached to do that?

Remember that ND coaches watched both him and JJ throw, and by all accounts it wasn't close with who was the superior arm talent. I get the consternation -- because it's an ND QB and people are going to dissect everything -- but IMO the only thing to give a shit about here is optics. It'd be awesome for him to do well and get the deserved national recognition. But I'd caution against putting too much weight in how someone does in this kind of setting because there are many examples of people showing out at Elite 11 and being garbage fires on the actual field... and there are many examples of people not grading out well in this event but winning a LOT of football games.

Yeah I read Patrick Mahones name as an "also ran" in the 2014 (I think) Elite 11.

 

[T-Boone]

Not going to lie JJs day 2 film looks better.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Day two footage

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/12661/video-notre-dame-qb-commit-tyler-buchner-pro-day-elite-11/1

Hmm, every pass except the corner dime was either incomplete or in a bad spot.

 

[ThePiombino]

Day two footage

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/12661/video-notre-dame-qb-commit-tyler-buchner-pro-day-elite-11/1

More bad passes than good ones IMO. Glad the pros think he's as good as they're saying. I hope to God they're right, but his E11 film is not good so far. Sorry.

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[IrishFanJMercy]

That day two film looked awful

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

That day two film looked awful

This crap has got to go.

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[SouthSideChiDomer]

Everyone should keep in mind that Buchner was first up from his group, so I don't think he got the advantage of seeing how the receivers ran their routes like the guys after him did. He's trying to throw timing routes to a bunch of guys he basically doesn't know the timing of. McCarthy was also first in his group and I think had the worst or second worst score of the group.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

This crap has got to go.

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What is wrong with what I said? It is a valid assessment the film didn't look good at all besides the one good through. He had like 3 throws that were over guys heads, a lot of short passes and passes that were wobbly coming out.

 

[pumpdog20]

it definitely wasn't a very flattering highlight film.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

What is wrong with what I said? It is a valid assessment the film didn't look good at all besides the one good through. He had like 3 throws that were over guys heads, a lot of short passes and passes that were wobbly coming out.

You didn't provide any sort of breakdown. You had nothing informative to add.
Saying "awful" is shortsighted and lazy.

I watched the film. I saw his footwork, execution, etc and saw a lot more than "awful", as did the scouts.

Additionally, it appears that a lot of you are putting an overvalue on "completions". This isn't a game, these aren't "his receivers" or even his "playbook". You can go on Twitter and read how several of these were just poor routes and drops.

There's a lot more to grading a QB than "completions".

 

[IrishLax]

That day two film looked awful

Just curious if you think those few throws were everything he did yesterday.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I went back to look at the history of this "competition" a little. In the last 15 years of complete data (all competitors finished college career), 33 of the 165 QBs were drafted into the NFL. There is an average of 12 QBs drafted to NFL each year. 15 x 12 = 180. So these guys in the elite 11 don't even make up 20% of the guys drafted each year. I doubt anything in these competitions translate too well to success on the football field. Just watching the contrived drills is kind of silly.

Edit: counted wrong, its actually 51/180 = 28% drafted.

 

[NDRock]

I went back to look at the history of this "competition" a little. In the last 15 years of complete data (all competitors finished college career), 33 of the 165 QBs were drafted into the NFL. There is an average of 12 QBs drafted to NFL each year. 15 x 12 = 180. So these guys in the elite 11 don't even make up 20% of the guys drafted each year. I doubt anything in these competitions translate too well to success on the football field. Just watching the contrived drills is kind of silly.

Interesting. Any idea how the top performers (Top 3) at these camps did regarding the NFL? Wonder if they had a higher hit rate than 20%.

 

[dublinirish]

Zack Greenlee Fo Life

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Interesting. Any idea how the top performers (Top 3) at these camps did regarding the NFL? Wonder if they had a higher hit rate than 20%.

I counted wrong, sorry, it was a quick search. Number is actually 51/180 = 28% drafted.

But to your point:

MVPs since 1999:
1999: Brock Berlin (undrafted)
2000: Brodie Croyle (3rd rd NFL draft)
2001: Ben Olson (undrafted)
2002: Kyle Wright (undrafted)
2003: Matt Tuiasosopo (undrafted - played baseball)
2004: Mark Sanchez (1st rd NFL draft)
2005: Matt Stafford (1st rd NFL draft)
2006: John Brantley (undrafted)
2007: Blaine Gabbert (1st rd NFL draft)
2008: Aaron Murray (5th rd NFL draft)
2009: Jake Heaps (undrafted)
2010: Jeff Driskel (6th rd NFL draft)
2011: Co-MVPs
Neal Burcham (undrafted)
Tanner Mangum (undrafted)
Jameis Winston (1st rd NFL draft)
2012: Asiantii Woulard (undrafted)
2013: Sean White (undrafted)
2014: Blake Barnett (undrafted)

7/18 = 39%. A little better. Has a few of the "can't miss" variety - Sanchez, Stafford, and Winston.

 

[NDRock]

I counted wrong, sorry, it was a quick search. Number is actually 51/180 = 28% drafted.

But to your point:

MVPs since 1999:
1999: Brock Berlin (undrafted)
2000: Brodie Croyle (3rd rd NFL draft)
2001: Ben Olson (undrafted)
2002: Kyle Wright (undrafted)
2003: Matt Tuiasosopo (undrafted - played baseball)
2004: Mark Sanchez (1st rd NFL draft)
2005: Matt Stafford (1st rd NFL draft)
2006: John Brantley (undrafted)
2007: Blaine Gabbert (1st rd NFL draft)
2008: Aaron Murray (5th rd NFL draft)
2009: Jake Heaps (undrafted)
2010: Jeff Driskel (6th rd NFL draft)
2011: Co-MVPs
Neal Burcham (undrafted)
Tanner Mangum (undrafted)
Jameis Winston (1st rd NFL draft)
2012: Asiantii Woulard (undrafted)
2013: Sean White (undrafted)
2014: Blake Barnett (undrafted)

7/18 = 39%. A little better. Has a few of the "can't miss" variety - Sanchez, Stafford, and Winston.

Interesting. QB is a tough one, thought I read that the hit rate for 1st round picks is about 50%. Not surprised that it’s even lower going from high school to college. I still think Tyler will be a very good player for us. Will be exciting to see.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Just got done watching him throw from today and I went back and watched some of his junior year film. Today's video was much closer to him, so you could really get a good look. He has definitely changed his throwing motion. I know he talked about shortening it up, but I think they took the wrong part out of the motion. Its definitely tighter now, but its tighter in that he is short-arming/side-arming it now. If they wanted to tighten it, I feel like the easy place was getting him to hold the ball higher so he could get into a cocked position quicker instead of holding it low and having to bring it through a whole motion to get to the top.

All that said, I don't think I would really worry about it. He was using a new QB coach (and if I were him I would probably call up the coach on the way home and tell the coach he's not coming back), so things probably just got messed up. Hopefully when he gets back in season he settles into his more natural throwing motion. I'll start to be concerned once I see it actually effecting him in games.

 

[Luckylucci]

Just got done watching him throw from today and I went back and watched some of his junior year film. Today's video was much closer to him, so you could really get a good look. He has definitely changed his throwing motion. I know he talked about shortening it up, but I think they took the wrong part out of the motion. Its definitely tighter now, but its tighter in that he is short-arming/side-arming it now. If they wanted to tighten it, I feel like the easy place was getting him to hold the ball higher so he could get into a cocked position quicker instead of holding it low and having to bring it through a whole motion to get to the top.

All that said, I don't think I would really worry about it. He was using a new QB coach (and if I were him I would probably call up the coach on the way home and tell the coach he's not coming back), so things probably just got messed up. Hopefully when he gets back in season he settles into his more natural throwing motion. I'll start to be concerned once I see it actually effecting him in games.

Yup.

 

[greyhammer90]

I will never understand these 5 star QBs with amazing stats attempting to change/tweak their throwing motions.

You know what will maybe get a 5 star drafted a few spots lower after a productive college career? A long motion.

You know what will stop a 5 star from having a productive college career? F*cking with the motion that got them the 5th star.

 

[Luckylucci]

Agreed. Unsure who thought this was necessary. I’ve watched a lot of his throwing sessions and camp film and never thought he had an elongated motion or something that needed change. This is from a Rivals camp in March.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> QB commit Tyler Buchner (<a href="https://twitter.com/tylerbuchner?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tylerbuchner</a>) drops a dime down the sideline. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoIrish?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoIrish</a> <a href="https://t.co/Ulw4J3Cpkn">pic.twitter.com/Ulw4J3Cpkn</a></p>— Mike Singer (@Rivals_Singer) <a href="https://twitter.com/Rivals_Singer/status/1234217548154953728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" data-instgrm-version="12" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:16px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" background:#FFFFFF; line-height:0; padding:0 0; text-align:center; text-decoration:none; width:100%;" target="_blank"> <div style=" display: flex; flex-direction: row; align-items: center;"> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; flex-grow: 0; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;"></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-grow: 1; justify-content: center;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; 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overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by Elite11 (@elite11)</a> on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2020-07-01T16:29:27+00:00">Jul 1, 2020 at 9:29am PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

Buchner starts at the 20 minute mark for anyone who wants to watch.

He is just so inconsistent. Looking at that March film to now, it does seem like at times he has a shorter throwing motion, but it also seems like those reps are the ones where he is the most off. IMO, it seems that by shortening his throwing motion, they have completely left behind his lower body, which really was already kind of off and something that probably needed to be worked on. Like maybe he can make the shorter throwing motion work, but from the guys I've seen succeed with that, they seem to have a great back hip drive through the throw, while Tyler seems to almost be dragging it with him. Who knows, maybe fixing that was on the schedule for next week and we just caught him at a bad moment in the development process. I'm going to stick with what I said originally: I'll start to be concerned if it effects him in his senior game film.

 

[Blazers46]

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" data-instgrm-version="12" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:16px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" background:#FFFFFF; line-height:0; padding:0 0; text-align:center; text-decoration:none; width:100%;" target="_blank"> <div style=" display: flex; flex-direction: row; align-items: center;"> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; flex-grow: 0; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;"></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-grow: 1; justify-content: center;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; flex-grow: 0; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 100px;"></div> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; flex-grow: 0; height: 14px; width: 60px;"></div></div></div><div style="padding: 19% 0;"></div> <div style="display:block; height:50px; margin:0 auto 12px; width:50px;"><svg width="50px" height="50px" viewBox="0 0 60 60" version="1.1" xmlns="https://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns:xlink="https://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"><g stroke="none" stroke-width="1" fill="none" fill-rule="evenodd"><g transform="translate(-511.000000, -20.000000)" fill="#000000"><g><path d="M556.869,30.41 C554.814,30.41 553.148,32.076 553.148,34.131 C553.148,36.186 554.814,37.852 556.869,37.852 C558.924,37.852 560.59,36.186 560.59,34.131 C560.59,32.076 558.924,30.41 556.869,30.41 M541,60.657 C535.114,60.657 530.342,55.887 530.342,50 C530.342,44.114 535.114,39.342 541,39.342 C546.887,39.342 551.658,44.114 551.658,50 C551.658,55.887 546.887,60.657 541,60.657 M541,33.886 C532.1,33.886 524.886,41.1 524.886,50 C524.886,58.899 532.1,66.113 541,66.113 C549.9,66.113 557.115,58.899 557.115,50 C557.115,41.1 549.9,33.886 541,33.886 M565.378,62.101 C565.244,65.022 564.756,66.606 564.346,67.663 C563.803,69.06 563.154,70.057 562.106,71.106 C561.058,72.155 560.06,72.803 558.662,73.347 C557.607,73.757 556.021,74.244 553.102,74.378 C549.944,74.521 548.997,74.552 541,74.552 C533.003,74.552 532.056,74.521 528.898,74.378 C525.979,74.244 524.393,73.757 523.338,73.347 C521.94,72.803 520.942,72.155 519.894,71.106 C518.846,70.057 518.197,69.06 517.654,67.663 C517.244,66.606 516.755,65.022 516.623,62.101 C516.479,58.943 516.448,57.996 516.448,50 C516.448,42.003 516.479,41.056 516.623,37.899 C516.755,34.978 517.244,33.391 517.654,32.338 C518.197,30.938 518.846,29.942 519.894,28.894 C520.942,27.846 521.94,27.196 523.338,26.654 C524.393,26.244 525.979,25.756 528.898,25.623 C532.057,25.479 533.004,25.448 541,25.448 C548.997,25.448 549.943,25.479 553.102,25.623 C556.021,25.756 557.607,26.244 558.662,26.654 C560.06,27.196 561.058,27.846 562.106,28.894 C563.154,29.942 563.803,30.938 564.346,32.338 C564.756,33.391 565.244,34.978 565.378,37.899 C565.522,41.056 565.552,42.003 565.552,50 C565.552,57.996 565.522,58.943 565.378,62.101 M570.82,37.631 C570.674,34.438 570.167,32.258 569.425,30.349 C568.659,28.377 567.633,26.702 565.965,25.035 C564.297,23.368 562.623,22.342 560.652,21.575 C558.743,20.834 556.562,20.326 553.369,20.18 C550.169,20.033 549.148,20 541,20 C532.853,20 531.831,20.033 528.631,20.18 C525.438,20.326 523.257,20.834 521.349,21.575 C519.376,22.342 517.703,23.368 516.035,25.035 C514.368,26.702 513.342,28.377 512.574,30.349 C511.834,32.258 511.326,34.438 511.181,37.631 C511.035,40.831 511,41.851 511,50 C511,58.147 511.035,59.17 511.181,62.369 C511.326,65.562 511.834,67.743 512.574,69.651 C513.342,71.625 514.368,73.296 516.035,74.965 C517.703,76.634 519.376,77.658 521.349,78.425 C523.257,79.167 525.438,79.673 528.631,79.82 C531.831,79.965 532.853,80.001 541,80.001 C549.148,80.001 550.169,79.965 553.369,79.82 C556.562,79.673 558.743,79.167 560.652,78.425 C562.623,77.658 564.297,76.634 565.965,74.965 C567.633,73.296 568.659,71.625 569.425,69.651 C570.167,67.743 570.674,65.562 570.82,62.369 C570.966,59.17 571,58.147 571,50 C571,41.851 570.966,40.831 570.82,37.631"></path></g></g></g></svg></div><div style="padding-top: 8px;"> <div style=" color:#3897f0; 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overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by Elite11 (@elite11)</a> on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2020-07-01T16:29:27+00:00">Jul 1, 2020 at 9:29am PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

Buchner starts at the 20 minute mark for anyone who wants to watch.

He is just so inconsistent. Looking at that March film to now, it does seem like at times he has a shorter throwing motion, but it also seems like those reps are the ones where he is the most off. IMO, it seems that by shortening his throwing motion, they have completely left behind his lower body, which really was already kind of off and something that probably needed to be worked on. Like maybe he can make the shorter throwing motion work, but from the guys I've seen succeed with that, they seem to have a great back hip drive through the throw, while Tyler seems to almost be dragging it with him. Who knows, maybe fixing that was on the schedule for next week and we just caught him at a bad moment in the development process. I'm going to stick with what I said originally: I'll start to be concerned if it effects him in his senior game film.

I have never been a fan of throwing at targets. Kind of the same concept as when I went to a baseball tryout and had to hit off a machine.

I do think his throwing motion is ugly. Looks like he is in one of those Dr Pepper Halftime contests.

 

[calvegas04]

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" data-instgrm-version="12" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:16px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" background:#FFFFFF; line-height:0; padding:0 0; text-align:center; text-decoration:none; width:100%;" target="_blank"> <div style=" display: flex; flex-direction: row; align-items: center;"> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; flex-grow: 0; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;"></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-grow: 1; justify-content: center;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; 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overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCGy-9plP3W/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by Elite11 (@elite11)</a> on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2020-07-01T16:29:27+00:00">Jul 1, 2020 at 9:29am PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

Buchner starts at the 20 minute mark for anyone who wants to watch.

Yesh

 

[BobbyMac]

Wait until the whole story comes out about switching QB coaches, who the new guy is, what he's done in the past and what connection he has (if any) to the staff.

 

[Irish YJ]

Wait until the whole story comes out about switching QB coaches, who the new guy is, what he's done in the past and what connection he has (if any) to the staff.

Dude, don't do that. lol

 

[PANDFAN]

Wait until the whole story comes out about switching QB coaches, who the new guy is, what he's done in the past and what connection he has (if any) to the staff.

haven't been really digging in this year regarding recruiting...what's the back story? i saw he switched HS didn't see this though...

 

[Luckylucci]

It looks to me like he is deliberately shortening or cutting of his loading process. He's not finishing back through the motion, which isn't giving him the time/space to get his hand over the top. On some of those, he was also 'stepping out' of the throws. Which I don't think is as big of a deal.