2022 Post-Game: Ohio State

[arndtjc]

I’m really really puzzled by a couple offensive play-calling things:

1. No swing passes, slip screens, tunnels (one to Mayer. There was no attempt of getting their speed out in space and it was completely head scratching to me

2. Where were the designed roll-outs? Ohio State was bringing all sort of pressure up the middle, why not utilize Buchner’s legs, move the pocket left or right and try and sneak a seam route past the defense?

3. No sign of even trying to set up the sweep play for Lenzy or Styles that has been so deadly the last few years.

Overall really disappointing night from Tommy

 

[Sea Turtle]

Despite the objections of Fowler and Herbstreit, I liked the decision to go for it at the end of the half. And that play was their shot. But yeah Lenzy (I’m guessing) messed up the route. I dunno what you do with that.

I don't either. Our offensive players never execute against good teams.

 

[Irish4life]

Nice Reddit post on talent gap between OSU and ND

Really hate these posts because it doesn't take into account what the players are when they actually get to campus, only what they were as HS recruits. Like, Brandon Joseph was a mid tier 3 star prospect and yet is a preseason AA, for example.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Really hate these posts because it doesn't take into account what the players are when they actually get to campus, only what they were as HS recruits. Like, Brandon Joseph was a mid tier 3 star prospect and yet is a preseason AA, for example.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it works both ways.

Zeke Correll was a top 100 overall player, but was listed at 6'4 285 as a HS senior. He's somehow lost 2 inches and gained only about 10 pounds over 4 years.

Josh Lugg was also right on the outside of the top 100 for his class and was rated ahead of Aaron Banks. But that was 6 years and several back injuries ago. Dude is simply not the same player with the same high ceiling he had leaving HS.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Really hate these posts because it doesn't take into account what the players are when they actually get to campus, only what they were as HS recruits. Like, Brandon Joseph was a mid tier 3 star prospect and yet is a preseason AA, for example.

It’s not an exact science, but it also isn’t rocket science.

There is an overwhelming correlation between top recruiting classes and National Championships.

Sure there are JJ Watts every year, but as a whole, better rated recruits = more talented teams.

It certainly isn’t a coincidence Alabama consistently has the best recruiting classes, and also consistently has the best team.

There are exceptions, but they are just that (the exception, not the rule).

Coaching/program identity can make up for lack of recruiting (Wisconsin), and lack of coaching/program identity can harpoon good recruiting (Mark Richt era at UGA), but you can’t honestly believe Wisconsin will ever win it all with their current set up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whiskeyjack]

 

[IrishLax]

Despite the objections of Fowler and Herbstreit, I liked the decision to go for it at the end of the half. And that play was their shot. But yeah Lenzy (I’m guessing) messed up the route. I dunno what you do with that.

I’m not sure if I like it or dislike it but it made it clear that Freeman is playing to *win* … the obvious/conservative call was to take your 3 point lead into half, and it’s kind of crazy to me the balls that he showed to go aggressive there. I think it was the “wrong” decision but I respect the mentality it takes to make it.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Agreed. Unfortunately, it works both ways.

Zeke Correll was a top 100 overall player, but was listed at 6'4 285 as a HS senior. He's somehow lost 2 inches and gained only about 10 pounds over 4 years.

Josh Lugg was also right on the outside of the top 100 for his class and was rated ahead of Aaron Banks. But that was 6 years and several back injuries ago. Dude is simply not the same player with the same high ceiling he had leaving HS.

I remember hearing Lugg was going to be as decorated as Quenton Nelson. But injuries did him no favors.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I know we can all post pics of blatant holding that gets missed by the officials but this is the 3rd different one I’ve seen from Saturday night.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I know we can all post pics of blatant holding that gets missed by the officials but this is the 3rd different one I’ve seen from Saturday night.

Dude i was screaming at the tv all night long about the blatant holds not called…particularly against mills.
Oh and the pass interference that wasnt going to be called on the bobbling salerno catch was nuts. There should have been laundry all over the field on that play, catch or not.

 

[du Lac]

11-1 and a rematch with a healthy Patterson and improved Buchner/Merriweather. Hmm.

 

[stlnd01]

I’m not sure if I like it or dislike it but it made it clear that Freeman is playing to *win* … the obvious/conservative call was to take your 3 point lead into half, and it’s kind of crazy to me the balls that he showed to go aggressive there. I think it was the “wrong” decision but I respect the mentality it takes to make it.

It may have been the “wrong” decision but by then it was clearly going to be a low-scoring game, with possessions at a premium. We had a chance to steal some points. In that scenario you take it. Worst that happens most likely is a pick that’s as good as a punt. I just wish our most experienced wide receiver had run the correct route.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I remember hearing Lugg was going to be as decorated as Quenton Nelson. But injuries did him no favors.

Yeah, there was no way that was going to happen. Lugg never had the kind of mean streak or athleticism that Q had. I think Lugg had the potential to be a good player for us, and I do recall him playing well at times when called upon in 2019.

But apparently he had some major back issues that have hindered his career. I don't believe for a second that Lugg has gotten over that, because back injuries are generally going to linger for years, especially when you have a lot of weight to carry. It's why he had to cut so much weight in '20 and '21.

Dude was never an athletic freak, but it's like Tony Jones. You have a guy dealing with frequent issues that hinder his already limited athleticism, it turns him into an athletic liability. Now instead of being capable of doing what's necessary when in there, he now physically cannot perform certain tasks that are expected of him. Which is why it's ludicrous that he's still in there, because the staff has to know this.

 

[Irishben10]

Would have loved to be in the same room as HH watches the game film.

Would have been amazing to hear all the swearing. Correl & Lugg need to be made accountable, on two of the sacks they both did nothing letting the a LB runs past them up the guts for a sacks, put a hand on them if your not able to physically block them, legally cut block them. Go Navy on them.

Patterson needs to be put back to C, and put schrauth or someone into the guard spots, who can block

 

[irishtrain]

Glad the season has started and the complaining about stupid stuff has ended.

GOOD

* The moment did not seem too big for TB or MF. They both showed well. I liked the fire we saw from MF on the sideline.
* Defense played really well for 3.5 quarters. That drive for tOSU's second touchdown was the back breaker but overall that was a well played game.
* Audric Estime is gonna be a beast.
* PK and Punter showed well overall.
* tOSU has been talked about as the team that can beat Bama this year. That is a team full of four and five star, top 150 players and ND went toe to toe with them. IMO that shouldn't be as overlooked as it is being on this thread. That's a great football team and they're going to dominate the rest of their season. ND has nothing to be ashamed of after that game.
* MF's post game remarks. The guy hates to lose and the things that need fixing he is going to make sure they get fixed.

BAD

* The ND fandom really is battered and bruised. Those that are the sky is falling crowd need to get therapy.
* Cam Hart is obviously hurt. He did not look like himself.
* Gotta give LAX credit. There were a lot us us, myself included, that thought Zeke Correll was gonna be fine as Center based on his play against 'Bama his freshman season. LAX wasn't sold and he was right. ZC looked overwhelmed. The IOL is gonna have to get better by Clemson or that game is gonna be a struggle.
* Lack of pressure on their QB. Surprised at how quiet Foskey was.
* Chris Fowler - ooof that was a poorly announced game. No mention of injuries to key ND players all night and just plain missed calls on several plays. It was bad.


CJ Stroud didn't have a big night, but he made several really key plays that were daggers to ND. His two third down scrambles that resulted in completions for first downs were the plays of the game.

I agree with all this and might add even though its not important-I mute the game always nowadays with Fowler/Herbsteit-they stink and really dont have much respect for the school

 

[Dale]

I know in the immediate aftermath I was a tad disappointed in the DEs especially Foskey but after seeing some reviews, with ND almost never blitzing, most reps were basically this:

Foskey vs LT/LG or TE or RB
Cross vs OG
Jayson A vs C/OG
Mills vs RT

Mills was the only one seemingly winning but he also was the one with the 1-1s usually, which he won a fair amount, Stroud just escaped.

Hoping for a lot more once some more exotic stuff can be unleashed.

 

[irishff1014]

I know in the immediate aftermath I was a tad disappointed in the DEs especially Foskey but after seeing some reviews, with ND almost never blitzing, most reps were basically this:

Foskey vs LT/LG or TE or RB
Cross vs OG
Jayson A vs C/OG
Mills vs RT

Mills was the only one seemingly winning but he also was the one with the 1-1s usually, which he won a fair amount, Stroud just escaped.

Hoping for a lot more once some more exotic stuff can be unleashed.

Justin A was winning some battles too. I saw him in the back field a few times.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Dude i was screaming at the tv all night long about the blatant holds not called…particularly against mills.
Oh and the pass interference that wasnt going to be called on the bobbling salerno catch was nuts. There should have been laundry all over the field on that play, catch or not.

So I know when it comes to PI by the defense that it matters as to whether the pass was “catchable”. Does that apply to OPI as well? I didn’t think the pass where they flagged Salerno was catchable.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Is Lugg the New Marshall All-American Transfer for this year?? Should we expect jail breaks on many plays where he is at??

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Glad the season has started and the complaining about stupid stuff has ended.

GOOD

* The moment did not seem too big for TB or MF. They both showed well. I liked the fire we saw from MF on the sideline.
* Defense played really well for 3.5 quarters. That drive for tOSU's second touchdown was the back breaker but overall that was a well played game.
* Audric Estime is gonna be a beast.
* PK and Punter showed well overall.
* tOSU has been talked about as the team that can beat Bama this year. That is a team full of four and five star, top 150 players and ND went toe to toe with them. IMO that shouldn't be as overlooked as it is being on this thread. That's a great football team and they're going to dominate the rest of their season. ND has nothing to be ashamed of after that game.
* MF's post game remarks. The guy hates to lose and the things that need fixing he is going to make sure they get fixed.

BAD

* The ND fandom really is battered and bruised. Those that are the sky is falling crowd need to get therapy.
* Cam Hart is obviously hurt. He did not look like himself.
* Gotta give LAX credit. There were a lot us us, myself included, that thought Zeke Correll was gonna be fine as Center based on his play against 'Bama his freshman season. LAX wasn't sold and he was right. ZC looked overwhelmed. The IOL is gonna have to get better by Clemson or that game is gonna be a struggle.
* Lack of pressure on their QB. Surprised at how quiet Foskey was.
* Chris Fowler - ooof that was a poorly announced game. No mention of injuries to key ND players all night and just plain missed calls on several plays. It was bad.


CJ Stroud didn't have a big night, but he made several really key plays that were daggers to ND. His two third down scrambles that resulted in completions for first downs were the plays of the game.

As much as we all use this forum to vent frustrations, I agree w/ your overall assessment. I was disappointed w/ the OL the most. After that, it was the punt/kick return game. I can live w/ about everything else b/c I thought OSU would beat us the way UGA beat Oregon (score-wise).

If it’s the fans that were scolding others for being realistic about the game, then they need to take their blinders off and remember while MF inherited a successful program, he also inherited some deficient recruiting classes. Until he can fix that, games against the Tier1 teams will be a challenge to compete.

If it’s the fans that were bitching about another blowout and then still bitching despite ND giving OSU everything it wanted for 3 quarters, then they should probably find a hobby that brings them joy b/c ND football is not doing it & life is too short to be that miserable over a college football game.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

We're 10th in SP+ this week. 29th in offense, 8th in defense.

 

[Irishbounty28]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but it sure looks like Tommy has a heck of a time adjusting in game. His original plan seemed to be fine, but once Ohio State started to adjust, Tommy and the offense struggled. Very similar situation during the Oklahoma State game IMO. I think a lot of this has to do with him being very green as a coordinator, and he will likely get better over the course of his career. I think this is amplified because there is a lack of coordinator experience on the offensive side of the ball. Previously, Tommy had a very experienced play caller(Brian Kelly) to run things by, and develop in-game/halftime adjustments. Now he is reliant on a pretty fresh crew of position coaches. Very stark difference, and will likely be an uphill battle while Tommy goes through the learning process.

 

[arahop]

Really hate these posts because it doesn't take into account what the players are when they actually get to campus, only what they were as HS recruits. Like, Brandon Joseph was a mid tier 3 star prospect and yet is a preseason AA, for example.

No matter how you cut it, we aret close to them in elite talent

 

[Free Manera]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but it sure looks like Tommy has a heck of a time adjusting in game. His original plan seemed to be fine, but once Ohio State started to adjust, Tommy and the offense struggled. Very similar situation during the Oklahoma State game IMO. I think a lot of this has to do with him being very green as a coordinator, and he will likely get better over the course of his career. I think this is amplified because there is a lack of coordinator experience on the offensive side of the ball. Previously, Tommy had a very experienced play caller(Brian Kelly) to run things by, and develop in-game/halftime adjustments. Now he is reliant on a pretty fresh crew of position coaches. Very stark difference, and will likely be an uphill battle while Tommy goes through the learning process.

Totally agree. The first few drives of every game (i.e. the scripted plays) are usually imaginative, and use a series of set-ups and fakes to create openings and big plays. During these initial drives, everyone understands what guys like McVay are talking about when the say Rees is a rising star.

But then things bog down a little as small adjustments get made. Then halftime hits, the big adjustments get made, and the offense puts up 7 points in 4 quarters.

 

[Irishdrunk]

No matter how you cut it, we aret close to them in elite talent

And the 2023 Class isn't going to be necessarily elite either. Other than Jagashaw the other OL's rank much lower. I know many revere HH but he isn't a miracle worker. Even when HH was here previously we never got the better of the elite teams.

I hate to by cynical but I think for ND to become a Top 3 program - it will take NIL upfront. 5 Star Players matter. I am glad we are getting Carr and hopefully Wingo won't need upfront cash either.

 

[NDohio]

As much as we all use this forum to vent frustrations, I agree w/ your overall assessment. I was disappointed w/ the OL the most. After that, it was the punt/kick return game. I can live w/ about everything else b/c I thought OSU would beat us the way UGA beat Oregon (score-wise).

If it’s the fans that were scolding others for being realistic about the game, then they need to take their blinders off and remember while MF inherited a successful program, he also inherited some deficient recruiting classes. Until he can fix that, games against the Tier1 teams will be a challenge to compete.

If it’s the fans that were bitching about another blowout and then still bitching despite ND giving OSU everything it wanted for 3 quarters, then they should probably find a hobby that brings them joy b/c ND football is not doing it & life is too short to be that miserable over a college football game.

Yes, this is the group that I was more focused on. There seem to be more of them than in years past. If you can't find any enjoyment out of ND football other than blowing every opponent out then you will be quite miserable.

I look at it as we only get to see this team perform 12-15 times per season. There will be frustration for sure as we are fans, but overall I find joy in watching Notre Dame play football and we only get a limited number of opportunities to do that each season.

 

[stlnd01]

Yes, this is the group that I was more focused on. There seem to be more of them than in years past. If you can't find any enjoyment out of ND football other than blowing every opponent out then you will be quite miserable.

I look at it as we only get to see this team perform 12-15 times per season. There will be frustration for sure as we are fans, but overall I find joy in watching Notre Dame play football and we only get a limited number of opportunities to do that each season.

And you will probably also complain that we don’t play enough big/tough games.

 

[ThePiombino]

I hate to by cynical but I think for ND to become a Top 3 program - it will take NIL upfront. 5 Star Players matter.

That's not being cynical. That's being honest and observant.

 

[choo choo]

• Well as a positive, we went toe to toe for three quarters against a consensus top 3 team when there is considered a big gap between 3 and 4. Al Golden looks like a fantastic hire and props to the defense for playing as hard and as well as they did. The only disappointment for me was the edge guys not really being able to generate pressure. In college football today, if your defense holds the other team to 21 points, you should win. We should feel really good about where we are defensively and our standout player didn’t really do anything.
• I get why TR was conservative. We started a QB who has one full season starting in his last four on the road at OSU to open the season. He was not going very few chances. I don’t blame him unless you want to bring up not taking a QB in the portal like JT Daniels. The interior OL was obviously disappointing. No real push running the ball and got beat with pressure multiple times. I get that Patterson is out, but it is going to be way worse vs Clemson if we don’t get it sorted out.
• I can’t believe we didn’t run the ball better. With as much hype as the OL got this offseason and with an athlete at QB as well as multiple backs that have contributed in the past plus Estime, I expected more.
• The return game was very frustrating for us. I thought Joseph left yards on the field when he fair caught some punts and we got outworked on KOR. If we are constantly starting on the 15, let’s just fair catch it and not put our offense in a tough spot.

Also the horrible field position all night limited some of the things Rees could do