2020-21 NFL Season

Rogue219

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It’s such a copycat league,… remember after Seattle won everyone tried a bigger than normal Dbackfield mimicking the legion of boom??? If some random woman wins a super bowl probably half the coaches in the league would be female by like next Tuesday,… it’ll be interesting. The OC thing mentioned above is a more subtle example as well
So true. Which I honestly have never understood.

I think it boils down to actually doing the job in the front office and interviewing people at length, players and coaches, to build your own identity. Think about all the Belichick coordinators that have failed as head coaches. You can even go back to Dave Wannstedt and Norv Turner in the 90s under Jimmy with Dallas.

Turner: 114-122, 4-4 in playoffs
Wannstedt: 82-87, 2-3 in playoffs

You can't just hire lieutenants off of some coaching tree and expect them to replicate whatever success they had. I've never understood how so many of these franchises don't get that this isn't the path to success.
 

irishog77

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I guess I don't understand the forced hiring of women either.

Is there an abundance of qualified women out there looking for coaching jobs in the nfl and being denied, because they are, in fact, women? Coupled with the logic of the argument that we need more minorities in the coaching ranks, because of the fact that the player ranks are ~70% black, and then I'm truly at a loss, as the percentage of women playing in the nfl is precisely 0%.

Maybe some youth and high school coaches can chime in here. What are the youth and high school coaching ranks looking like? Because if there a lot of minority and women being denied to coach there, where the pay ranges from $0.00 as a volunteer- to often times 30-50k to teach and coach in high school, then that is another issue. Maybe I just haven't seen or heard of these hoards of women being denied the opportunity to coach 8 year olds. The people described here are largely doing it because they love the game, or sometimes because they simply love helping mold young people.

The nfl is obviously the pinnacle of coaching. Not only are they supposedly the best of the best, but they are largely the highest compensated as well. Obviously people want those jobs! It's rare for an actor in a community troupe to turn down acting in the next Broadway show, blockbuster movie, or the next Scorsese movie because they, instead, prefer the zero compensation and 12 people in the audience to watch them shine. It's like all the musicians in Nashville. Very few of them turn down record deals because they prefer the shitty pay and shitty hours of performing to a few hundred drunk people in a bar. The point being people do these jobs because they love doing the work, or they believe they can be the 1 out a 1,000,000 to make it. So they work hard, toil at their craft, pay their dues, and spend countless hours of practice, blood, sweat, and tears trying to make it.

This doesn't seem like what is going on with women in the nfl.
 

Blazers46

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I guess I don't understand the forced hiring of women either.

Is there an abundance of qualified women out there looking for coaching jobs in the nfl and being denied, because they are, in fact, women? Coupled with the logic of the argument that we need more minorities in the coaching ranks, because of the fact that the player ranks are ~70% black, and then I'm truly at a loss, as the percentage of women playing in the nfl is precisely 0%.

Maybe some youth and high school coaches can chime in here. What are the youth and high school coaching ranks looking like? Because if there a lot of minority and women being denied to coach there, where the pay ranges from $0.00 as a volunteer- to often times 30-50k to teach and coach in high school, then that is another issue. Maybe I just haven't seen or heard of these hoards of women being denied the opportunity to coach 8 year olds. The people described here are largely doing it because they love the game, or sometimes because they simply love helping mold young people.

The nfl is obviously the pinnacle of coaching. Not only are they supposedly the best of the best, but they are largely the highest compensated as well. Obviously people want those jobs! It's rare for an actor in a community troupe to turn down acting in the next Broadway show, blockbuster movie, or the next Scorsese movie because they, instead, prefer the zero compensation and 12 people in the audience to watch them shine. It's like all the musicians in Nashville. Very few of them turn down record deals because they prefer the shitty pay and shitty hours of performing to a few hundred drunk people in a bar. The point being people do these jobs because they love doing the work, or they believe they can be the 1 out a 1,000,000 to make it. So they work hard, toil at their craft, pay their dues, and spend countless hours of practice, blood, sweat, and tears trying to make it.

This doesn't seem like what is going on with women in the nfl.

Another good question is if the NFL or teams will have to hire a Biologist to determine the sex of candidates....
OR if a team can find a loophole and just have the TE coach identify as a women....
Or what happens if they hire a biologist confirmed female that identifies as a man or some other made up gender?
 

TorontoGold

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You have high school coaches represented at the same rate as Shanahan's - 1

Precursor for most NFL success is a GA position with your university, so it's not really an NFL issue in that it can be addressed with universities offering GA positions in a more diverse way. Like Whiskey said, there's a ton of nerds out there who could likely churn out great schemes but teams will give Mike Shananan the 5th a shot because can say "defense wins championships".
 

Rogue219

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Sudden Death Overtime is no more.

The pearl clutching taunting rule, however, remains.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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You have high school coaches represented at the same rate as Shanahan's - 1

Precursor for most NFL success is a GA position with your university, so it's not really an NFL issue in that it can be addressed with universities offering GA positions in a more diverse way. Like Whiskey said, there's a ton of nerds out there who could likely churn out great schemes but teams will give Mike Shananan the 5th a shot because can say "defense wins championships".
I guess I'd like to double down on the first question that iog77 asked in his above post; are there a ton of minorities and women applying for these GA positions and being denied? It's one thing to make an observation and say "there are not many black coaches or women coaches." It's another thing to say "holy shit, 100 women applied for a GA position and only 2 got one."
 

TorontoGold

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I guess I'd like to double down on the first question that iog77 asked in his above post; are there a ton of minorities and women applying for these GA positions and being denied? It's one thing to make an observation and say "there are not many black coaches or women coaches." It's another thing to say "holy shit, 100 women applied for a GA position and only 2 got one."
I think that's fair - my issue is with the NFL putting this in place when it should be something dealt with at the NCAA level. By the time candidates get to the NFL level the experience will already be determined.

Like MF said about convincing kids that they are ND kids, it's sort of the same where you can convince smart people that they can take their interest in football further by applying to be a GA.

It's not a perfect comparison but I do know that some hockey teams have programs where they sponsor a writer from a minority background to gain experience covering the team to help build their resume. I wonder if this is something that could be done in the GA space to help build diversity.
 

GowerND11

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I guess I don't understand the forced hiring of women either.

Is there an abundance of qualified women out there looking for coaching jobs in the nfl and being denied, because they are, in fact, women? Coupled with the logic of the argument that we need more minorities in the coaching ranks, because of the fact that the player ranks are ~70% black, and then I'm truly at a loss, as the percentage of women playing in the nfl is precisely 0%.

Maybe some youth and high school coaches can chime in here. What are the youth and high school coaching ranks looking like? Because if there a lot of minority and women being denied to coach there, where the pay ranges from $0.00 as a volunteer- to often times 30-50k to teach and coach in high school, then that is another issue. Maybe I just haven't seen or heard of these hoards of women being denied the opportunity to coach 8 year olds. The people described here are largely doing it because they love the game, or sometimes because they simply love helping mold young people.

The nfl is obviously the pinnacle of coaching. Not only are they supposedly the best of the best, but they are largely the highest compensated as well. Obviously people want those jobs! It's rare for an actor in a community troupe to turn down acting in the next Broadway show, blockbuster movie, or the next Scorsese movie because they, instead, prefer the zero compensation and 12 people in the audience to watch them shine. It's like all the musicians in Nashville. Very few of them turn down record deals because they prefer the shitty pay and shitty hours of performing to a few hundred drunk people in a bar. The point being people do these jobs because they love doing the work, or they believe they can be the 1 out a 1,000,000 to make it. So they work hard, toil at their craft, pay their dues, and spend countless hours of practice, blood, sweat, and tears trying to make it.

This doesn't seem like what is going on with women in the nfl.
I'm an assistant varsity boys' basketball coach so I can chime in some about our league. We have 18 teams in the league, so 36 coaching staffs (boys and girls). Within the boys ranks we have 1 black head coach, who very well might be the first black coach in our league. We are also a semi rural area in NEPA (Schuylkill League) so it really isn't that shocking. We have one female assistant in the boys league as well. We also have 2 Hispanic assistants.

I'm not totally sure about the girls totals in terms of assistants, but only 4 of the 18 head coaches are female and all are white. Granted, again, small sample size and rural area, but there's that.
 

Blazers46

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I'm an assistant varsity boys' basketball coach so I can chime in some about our league. We have 18 teams in the league, so 36 coaching staffs (boys and girls). Within the boys ranks we have 1 black head coach, who very well might be the first black coach in our league. We are also a semi rural area in NEPA (Schuylkill League) so it really isn't that shocking. We have one female assistant in the boys league as well. We also have 2 Hispanic assistants.

I'm not totally sure about the girls totals in terms of assistants, but only 4 of the 18 head coaches are female and all are white. Granted, again, small sample size and rural area, but there's that.

There's what? Are you providing this as context to say what? I just googled NE PA demographics and it says its 93.3% White. I am guessing the pool of candidates are pretty small.

Here in Las Cruces NM we are 65ish percent hispanic as a city. Without looking it up and off the top of my head I can only think of 2 white coaches in all of the 4 high schools. 1 is a white/male baseball coach, the other is a white lesbian ladies basketball coach. The athletic office is made up of 4 people. All hispanic. 3 women, 1 man. All other head coaches and most assistants are hispanic or black. I can think of many schools outside of the city that look very similar.
 

GowerND11

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There's what? Are you providing this as context to say what? I just googled NE PA demographics and it says its 93.3% White. I am guessing the pool of candidates are pretty small.

Here in Las Cruces NM we are 65ish percent hispanic as a city. Without looking it up and off the top of my head I can only think of 2 white coaches in all of the 4 high schools. 1 is a white/male baseball coach, the other is a white lesbian ladies basketball coach. The athletic office is made up of 4 people. All hispanic. 3 women, 1 man. All other head coaches and most assistants are hispanic or black. I can think of many schools outside of the city that look very similar.

There's my anecdotal response to @irishog77. That's all.
 

Blazers46

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I think that's fair - my issue is with the NFL putting this in place when it should be something dealt with at the NCAA level. By the time candidates get to the NFL level the experience will already be determined.

Like MF said about convincing kids that they are ND kids, it's sort of the same where you can convince smart people that they can take their interest in football further by applying to be a GA.

It's not a perfect comparison but I do know that some hockey teams have programs where they sponsor a writer from a minority background to gain experience covering the team to help build their resume. I wonder if this is something that could be done in the GA space to help build diversity.
I just spoke to someone within the Athletic Department at NMSU. They beg for minority GAs but cannot get many to apply and when they do apply they don't seem to follow through with the process of getting qualified, which he says is not that hard.
 

TorontoGold

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I just spoke to someone within the Athletic Department at NMSU. They beg for minority GAs but cannot get many to apply and when they do apply they don't seem to follow through with the process of getting qualified, which he says is not that hard.
That's my point though, doing a better job on outreach is what the goal would be IMO. Showing them they are a GA fit would go a long way in increasing diversity of candidates.
 

TorontoGold

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Sure but are they not?
No idea. Would have a way better outcome for downstream impacts on NFL hires, instead of mandating at the NFL level when the best predictor for being NFL HC is college experience. Instead, the NFL will put these things into place and some will scream bloody murder that it's reverse discrimination. It's a lose-lose.
 

ACamp1900

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There's what? Are you providing this as context to say what? I just googled NE PA demographics and it says its 93.3% White. I am guessing the pool of candidates are pretty small.

Here in Las Cruces NM we are 65ish percent hispanic as a city. Without looking it up and off the top of my head I can only think of 2 white coaches in all of the 4 high schools. 1 is a white/male baseball coach, the other is a white lesbian ladies basketball coach. The athletic office is made up of 4 people. All hispanic. 3 women, 1 man. All other head coaches and most assistants are hispanic or black. I can think of many schools outside of the city that look very similar.
You’re from Cruces?? Also, I’m shocked to learn it’s only 65 percent, figured it was more like 80 plus percent some form of Hispanic or another like El Paso,…
 

Blazers46

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You’re from Cruces?? Also, I’m shocked to learn it’s only 65 percent, figured it was more like 80 plus percent some form of Hispanic or another like El Paso,…

I would say the locals are about 80% plus maybe more but Las Cruces has become a HUGE retirement community for old white people.
 

Rogue219

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Whoever you are, whatever your race, whoever you love, you'd better be selective. In most cases, you fail, you're done.

By that same token (no pun intended), maybe Todd Bowles got a taste of being an HC and now at 58 years old is happy being a DC in Tampa under Bruce Arians. Good gig.

Raheem Morris, however, might want another shot at an HC job at 45 years old. Does he get one?

Leftwich and Bienemy waiting for their first is another discussion entirely.
 

Irish#1

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Arians is stepping down as HC. Moving into the front office.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Arians is stepping down as HC. Moving into the front office.
They're already denying this had anything to do with Brady's return but the whole thing seems so fishy.

I have a feeling Brady didn't like Arians' style or something; but obviously TB felt it was better to keep him within the organization in some capacity rather than let him walk.
 

Rogue219

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He did a great job in AZ and TB. Helluva coach in my eyes.

Don't forget, he was Peyton's QB coach in Indy and was OC of the Steelers. He goes way back.

Bowles took his first HC job with the Jets. Career suicide. I am glad he's getting a second shot. Will he hire a DC or call the defense as HC is my question from here.
 
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