2018 Fall Camp Thread

Irish YJ

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This is the least excited I've been for the start of a season. Combine our bad QB-play with a new line, and the offense is going to be terribly disappointing. I think this is a step-back year for ND. Is anyone seriously optimistic?

Can someone talk me off the ledge?

The only thing I'm confident in is the D. Probably the most optimistic (about the D) I've been in 20+ years coming in to the season.

Not so optimistic about the O. More cautious than pessimistic though. I mean, ND hasn't had one top 25 team in total O since BK arrived. Significant losses at OL, WR, and RB translate to caution. Questions around BW's performance/improvement translate to caution. Productivity of TE of late translates to caution.

Could be a great team if the D is as good as we think, the new starters gel, and BW improves. It also could be a long year if the O is anemic. 10-2 or 9-3 (so 9.5) is what I think. That's more optimistic than Vegas who had our O/U wins at 8.5.
 

NDinMI

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I honestly think their defense is a little to overhyped South Carolina out 26 on them and Indiana put 20 every other team scored anywhere from 25 to at least 10 let’s face it if a shitty minn team can score 10 on them we should at least score 20-25. We score almost 20 on Georgia last year and I’d say Georgia defense was better in my eyes because they played tougher competition

I can agree with that, but you also have to think how much pressure and how many snaps were put on their defense. If their Def wasnt great they had no chance to win. Their QB play was absolutely awful. Literally any positive increase in QB play will help them a lot. Less pressure on defense. Less snaps for the def. Having a QB that can just do something will help them. Their QB’s couldnt do sh*t. I’m not saying Shea is gonna be what people think cause I think people are blowing him up far too much. Having him being able to actually extened plays and makes plays at QB will not only make them better on offense, but will also help the defense. Theyre gonna be good. They kind of remind me of ND in the sense that if their QB play is real solid then watch out. They will be good. ND will be good. Just need to make some plays on defense and hope Wimbbush doesnt self destruct. This isn’t me saying they're gonna be so sweet and un beatable, but just taking eveything into consideration. Too tough to tell cause they really didnt beat anyone that tough last year. I still hope we sh*t on them lol.
 
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IrishLax

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This is the least excited I've been for the start of a season. Combine our bad QB-play with a new line, and the offense is going to be terribly disappointing. I think this is a step-back year for ND. Is anyone seriously optimistic?

Can someone talk me off the ledge?

I tend to agree... if OL takes a big step back I don't see this team going anywhere. Common thread of 2012, 2015, and 2017 was elite OL play that led to consistent YPC.

Every year we've tried to put it on a QB to make plays has been somewhere from disaster to mediocre... the big hope you have to have is that the defense is good enough to be a difference maker. If that's the case and we don't need to 30+ to win games every week then I'm less concerned about an inconsistent running game or inconsistent passing game.

I think we have four big question marks on the team:
1. Safety
2. QB
3. RB
4. Replacing McGlinchey/Nelson on the OL

If any two of those don't pan out this is an 8-5 team. But if we hit on all four of those... you get consistent play from any combination of safeties; a playmaking Wimbush who is more efficient when he needs to be; any RB to step up an be an explosive player like Adams was; and the OL as a whole to be as productive as last year... this team is a 10-2 team at worst. I'm just very, very skeptical about some of those... especially the OL. The OL literally won the OL of the Year award last year... it's hard to replicate that.
 

Irish YJ

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I tend to agree... if OL takes a big step back I don't see this team going anywhere. Common thread of 2012, 2015, and 2017 was elite OL play that led to consistent YPC.

Every year we've tried to put it on a QB to make plays has been somewhere from disaster to mediocre... the big hope you have to have is that the defense is good enough to be a difference maker. If that's the case and we don't need to 30+ to win games every week then I'm less concerned about an inconsistent running game or inconsistent passing game.

I think we have four big question marks on the team:
1. Safety
2. QB
3. RB
4. Replacing McGlinchey/Nelson on the OL

If any two of those don't pan out this is an 8-5 team. But if we hit on all four of those... you get consistent play from any combination of safeties; a playmaking Wimbush who is more efficient when he needs to be; any RB to step up an be an explosive player like Adams was; and the OL as a whole to be as productive as last year... this team is a 10-2 team at worst. I'm just very, very skeptical about some of those... especially the OL. The OL literally won the OL of the Year award last year... it's hard to replicate that.

Surprised Safety is your biggest Q mark. Are the talking heads concerned as well? Thought I read a few articles that Gilman and Houston were looking good, and not sure I read anything negative about Elliot or the guys behind him? Anything you can share is appreciated.
 

jspags10pg

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Surprised Safety is your biggest Q mark. Are the talking heads concerned as well? Thought I read a few articles that Gilman and Houston were looking good, and not sure I read anything negative about Elliot or the guys behind him? Anything you can share is appreciated.

Talking heads were all raving about Coleman after the last practice on Thursday. Looking like Coleman and Gilman as starting FS and SS respectively. Griffith has been banged up but still high on him and he will play a lot this year.

QB is the clear #1 concern for me. Good QB play fixes a lot of other issues on offense that would otherwise be glaring issues. Just hoping Wimbush can put it all together when it matters and if he can't, I hope we let Book take over ASAP. I really like Brandon and everything he has done at ND makes me proud that he represents ND. He just needs to put it all together on the field.
 

Irish YJ

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Talking heads were all raving about Coleman after the last practice on Thursday. Looking like Coleman and Gilman as starting FS and SS respectively. Griffith has been banged up but still high on him and he will play a lot this year.

QB is the clear #1 concern for me. Good QB play fixes a lot of other issues on offense that would otherwise be glaring issues. Just hoping Wimbush can put it all together when it matters and if he can't, I hope we let Book take over ASAP. I really like Brandon and everything he has done at ND makes me proud that he represents ND. He just needs to put it all together on the field.


Thanks. I figured Coleman/Elliot would battle it out till game day. I'm comfortable with that rotation.

I'm with you on QB as the number 1 concern. Love BW, and want him to rock and roll, but if he can't, next man up. More than anything, I don't want an up and down year long QB controversy.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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By all accounts, it was a bad day for Wimbush and Book looked very sharp. I really hope Wimbush can put it together and just start playing pitch n catch. I'm glad he's cerebral but he's gotta get out there and just play football and enjoy it.

It sounds like the QB competition is alive and well. Hopefully our best players take the field against Michigan, whoever that turns out to be.
 

Irish YJ

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<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/u4JCzBH4ASg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Irish2155

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The second video Phill looks great. He certainly has the quickest release, best velocity and accuracy was great.
 

Irish YJ

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BabyIrish

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By all accounts, it was a bad day for Wimbush and Book looked very sharp. I really hope Wimbush can put it together and just start playing pitch n catch. I'm glad he's cerebral but he's gotta get out there and just play football and enjoy it.

It sounds like the QB competition is alive and well. Hopefully our best players take the field against Michigan, whoever that turns out to be.

After watching II’s video I’m done with Wimbush. There was a throw that looked God awful. People complain about PJs release but at least he can do the throw to the flat accurately. Give me Book for the season.
 

Irish YJ

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The second video Phill looks great. He certainly has the quickest release, best velocity and accuracy was great.

I really don't care about ugly or pretty in terms of release. Accuracy and consistency are the only things that matter to me.

After watching II’s video I’m done with Wimbush. There was a throw that looked God awful. People complain about PJs release but at least he can do the throw to the flat accurately. Give me Book for the season.

There were multiple awful shots but assuming you're talking about that horrible off target duck to Dex... yup, not sure you can be that "off" on a simple short pass without something seriously disconnected upstairs. Not as bad, but still not good, was the throw behind CBO. PJ was dead on in every shot.

The target practice exercise was awful as well. Missed the entire net on the first one, then way high the second, and way low the third. WTF. Book was dead on.

I'm not saying I'm done, but from the tape, he was a distant third in performance.
 

dad4aa

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Hopefully the coaches work the game like the bowl game. Start with BW bc his legs are deadly and he gives a real dual threat issue. If he struggles passing...make the change to Book and stay with it. None of this Kiser/Zaire back and forth crap. Can’t build chemistry if you are constantly changing things at QB.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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After watching II’s video I’m done with Wimbush. There was a throw that looked God awful. People complain about PJs release but at least he can do the throw to the flat accurately. Give me Book for the season.

I'm not as reactionary as you but I do agree. It's very concerning when your potential starting QB can't complete a swing pass. The reason Kelly is still behind Brandon, I presumre, is because of the added dynamic he offers with his legs. It's so hard to keep a QB contained while also set-up to defend the pass.

Kelly said at the beginning of camp he was looking for consistency more than anything at the QB position. It sounds like Book is providing that so far. Even if Wimbush had a great day yesterday, he's riding a wave of bad - good - bad.

I hope something clicks for Wimbush because he seems like a great ambassador but I want the best QB out there this fall.

I'll keep an open mind until I see screens skipping into the dirt.
 

Irish YJ

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freebie from Freeman
https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/6879/freemans-practice-observations-811

Notre Dame held practice inside Notre Dame Stadium on Saturday morning. Antidote by Travis Scott was playing and things got off to a good start on the 80-degree day.

Brian Kelly challenge his team to lock in and start practice fast. The Irish did that for the most part as the competition didn't come until basically the final four periods.

PARTICIPATION REPORT
First-Team Offense 

QB - Brandon Wimbush 

RB - Tony Jones Jr.

WR - Miles Boykin 

WR - Chase Claypool

WR - Chris Finke

TE - Alizè Mack
OL - Liam Eichenberg
OL - Alex Bars 

OL - Sam Mustipher 

OL - Trevor Ruhland
OL - Tommy Kraemer



Second-Team Offense 

QB - Ian Book 

RB - Jafar Armstrong
WR - Avery Davis 

WR - Michael Young

WR - Kevin Austin J.
TE - Brock Wright
OL - Jarrett Patterson

OL - Dillan Gibbons 

OL - Colin Grunhard
OL - Josh Lugg

OL - Aaron Banks


Third-Team Offense 

QB - Phil Jurkovec 

RB - C’Bo Flemister

WR - Javon McKinley
WR - Lawrence Keys III 

WR - Joe Wilkins Jr. 

TE - Tommy Tremble

OL - Cole Mabry
OL - Logan Plantz

OL - Colin Grunhard

OL - Luke Jones

OL - John Dirksen


Defense 
First-Team 

DE - Khalid Kareem 

DT - Jon Bonner

DT - Jerry Tillery

DE - Julian Okwara

LB - Te’von Coney

LB - Drue Tranquill

Rov - Asmar Bilal 

CB - Julian Love 

CB - Troy Pride Jr.

S - Nick Coleman 

S - Alohi Gilman



Second-Team 

DE - Ade Ogundeji

DT - Myron Tagovailoa-Amosa

DT - Kurt Hinish 

DE - Daelin Hayes

LB - Jordan Genmark Heath

LB - Bo Bauer/ Jonathan Jones 

Rov - Shayne Simon

CB - Shaun Crawford

CB - Donte Vaughn

S - Devin Studstill
S - Jalen Elliott

Not in action
RB Jahmir Smith
OL Robert Hainsey
LB Jack Lamb
LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah
LB Drew White

Freshman defensive tackle Jayson Ademilola worked with the second-team defense as did freshman safety Houston Griffith.

PLAY OF THE DAY
Quarterback Ian Book found freshman receiver Kevin Austin Jr. in the end zone for about a 25-yard scoring strike. While it was a 50-50 ball, Austin made an incredible catching over, around and through cornerback Donte Vaughn.

Exceptional play by a receiver that has started to come on positively the last few practices.

UPS
- Wimbush was better throwing to moving targets compared to stationary targets on Saturday. He made several good throws in the red zone including an absolute rope to Nic Weishar. When he doesn’t think about what he’s doing, Wimbush plays much faster and better.

- It was a solid day from the receivers. They still drop a few more than you’d like to see but the rust is coming off, and the focus is much better.

- Kevin Austin Jr. is going to play a lot this year. He was getting reps with the first-team during Saturday’s practice. It wasn’t a ton of reps, but he was in there. He made several highlight-reel catches over people, and it’s not surprising as that was one of his strengths coming out of high school. It’s just going scary how good Austin could be by his third year.

- The 11-on-11 period got everyone fired up, and it was a battle in the trenches. The offensive line got a good push to spring Tony Jones Jr. for a couple of nice gains, but that was after Te’von Coney stuff a run. You don’t want to see one side dominate in camp and both sides of the ball got their shots in on Saturday.

- Jafar Armstrong continues to impress me as well. He’s a big kid that has speed. We saw him get loose today in 11-on-11 and he got to sideline and then tried to stiff-arm Jalen Elliott. Elliott made a tough tackle, which was also good to see because I’m not sure he makes the stop last year.

- Julian Love and Troy Pride Jr. could be special. We’ve said it on the first two days, but they continue to impress. Pride becoming a physical presence is so significant for the defense because very few programs have a player with his skill set.

- Quarterback Phil Jurkovec didn’t get a ton of work today in 1-on-1s or 7-on-7, but he got more reps than we saw on Thursday, which was none. In positional work, the ball was flying out of his hand with accuracy and velocity. I was big on not tinkering with his motion, and I am even more convinced it’s a non-issue after watching him today. He’s a comfortable freshman out there.

- Defensive lineman Ja'mion Franklin did some good things on 1-on-1s. He blew by the offensive lineman twice and you could see his explosion first step.

DOWNS
- Brandon Wimbush struggled early getting in the flow. He missed targets as the Irish were going through their warmup periods to start practice. Brian Kelly was very hands-on today with Wimbush and got him settled down to the point Wimbush finished the day in positive fashion. I'd be more concerned if Wimbush didn't rebound to make some tough throws when it mattered.

- I'd love to see a little more consistency from the quarterbacks and receivers but both Book and Wimbush move the ball in 11-on-11.

- The practice, in general, didn’t allow for the team to really get in a competitive rhythm. There was an early 1-on-1 period between the receivers and defensive backs, but Saturday was about install and positional development. Kelly mentioned post-practice that they will go heavy contact three times next week.

- I would have personally loved to have seen more contact at the start to get the guys locked in from the beginning. I don’t think Notre Dame wasn’t focused or giving effort, but things ramped up by about 150 percent when the 11-on-11 period came around.

11-on-11 Thoughts
- The first thing that stood out was the intensity Notre Dame brought to the session. In past years, it might have seemed like another period, but this team is fired up to compete and fired up to hit people.

- Wimbush was good but not great. He missed a throw to the flats, which was a tough throw and Armstrong had a chance to reel it in and dropped it. Not ideal from both sides but it would have been a tough play all around.

- Tony Jones Jr. ripped off runs of about six yards and eight yards but also was stoned for no gain and about two yards.

- Te’von Coney came to play. We hadn’t heard much from Coney during the previous two viewings, but they also hadn’t done a ton of live 11-on-11. Coney made his presence felt throughout the 11-on-11 session.

- Wimbush and Book did nice things off RPOs. Wimbush made a tough throw to Boykin for a nice gain.

- Armstrong had the 30+ yard catch and run, while Austin ended Book’s drive with the touchdown catch.

- Notre Dame was bringing the pressure on Wimbush and he did well for the most part. He found Alizè Mack for about a 20-yard completion on a Don Brownesque all-out blitz. The defense was coming hard and Wimbush gathered himself to make a tough throw.

- Wimbush also likely missed a receiver (I didn't see an open one) where he ended up running about 80 yards behind the line of scrimmages before settling for a gain of three yards. It was an impressive run to avoid being touched as he was in the red jersey but he likely missed a receiver when he was in the pocket.

NOTES
Notre Dame worked on kickoff return today. Asmar Bilal, Shayne Simon, Isaiah Robertson, Nicco Fertitta, Jordan Genmark Heath, Jalen Elliott, Nic Weishar, Cole Kmet, Keenan Sweeney, Jafar Armstrong and Avery Davis made up the first unit.

Notre Dame will have to adjust numbers or people as Simon and Sweeney both are No. 33.

Returners were Avery Davis, Chris Finke, Shaun Crawford and Michael Young today, but Brian Kelly said they are also working in some of the younger guys, which means Braden Lenzy and Lawrence Keys III will likely get their shot.

TRACKING JUSTIN YOON
It was another solid performance on Saturday from the field goal unit. Yoon hit from 20, 30, 36, 45 and 50 yards, while his only miss was from 40 yards out. Ian Book looks to be improving as the holder and even calmly reeled in a bad snap for one of Yoon’s makes.
 

Luckylucci

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After watching II’s video I’m done with Wimbush. There was a throw that looked God awful. People complain about PJs release but at least he can do the throw to the flat accurately. Give me Book for the season.

Lol, these type of reactions crack me up. Just keep in mind, you watched several reps out of, what, 100+ on the day.

I think we all want to see more consistency but it’s not like he’s terrible. There was certainly some positives that came out of the day from Wimbush as well. Plus none of this is using his best attribute. He doesn’t need to be Book accurate to be the better option. He just has to be a slightly better version of himself from last year.
 
K

koonja

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If you're on ISD, you can tell he's quite concerned about BW after this week. Hell never say it, but sounds like hes over him.

Guess Pete Sampsom might not have been stirring the pot, who would have guessed that..
 
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BabyIrish

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Lol, these type of reactions crack me up. Just keep in mind, you watched several reps out of, what, 100+ on the day.

I think we all want to see more consistency but it’s not like he’s terrible. There was certainly some positives that came out of the day from Wimbush as well. Plus none of this is using his best attribute. He doesn’t need to be Book accurate to be the better option. He just has to be a slightly better version of himself from last year.

So you’re not at all concerned that he continues to miss short throws, throws that aren’t even close to the intended target just because he can run fast? Yeah it’s a small sample size but all the practice reports have mentioned his inconsistency, every single one. How’s that different from last year?
 

Irish YJ

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So you’re not at all concerned that he continues to miss short throws, throws that aren’t even close to the intended target just because he can run fast? Yeah it’s a small sample size but all the practice reports have mentioned his inconsistency, every single one. How’s that different from last year?

Not speaking for LL, but I think there is a huge difference between "being done with BW", and being concerned. I think everyone is concerned to an extent, and has been since late last season. Being done though, I think too soon. If the reports don't turn to the positive in the next 7 to 10 practices, I'll likely jump off the boat too, but not yet. IMO Brandon doesn't have to be 60+% guy to win most or every game. He does however need to stop throwing dead ducks on short throws though lol...
 

Luckylucci

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So you’re not at all concerned that he continues to miss short throws, throws that aren’t even close to the intended target just because he can run fast? Yeah it’s a small sample size but all the practice reports have mentioned his inconsistency, every single one. How’s that different from last year?

Oh, don’t get me wrong, concern is valid. Your post was a complete overreaction that said you were “done with him” for missing a few throws. And that fact that you completely downplay his ability to run as a nonfactor is hilarious. It’s a huge part of the offense. He was literally recruited, in part, because of that attribute
 

Luckylucci

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Not speaking for LL, but I think there is a huge difference between "being done with BW", and being concerned. I think everyone is concerned to an extent, and has been since late last season. Being done though, I think too soon. If the reports don't turn to the positive in the next 7 to 10 practices, I'll likely jump off the boat too, but not yet. IMO Brandon doesn't have to be 60+% guy to win most or every game. He does however need to stop throwing dead ducks on short throws though lol...

Yep, to all of this.
 

Irish YJ

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Yep, to all of this.

Just read another article on B&G. In 11on11 BW went 2-5 with a drop, Book went 4-4. One of the other articles mentioned that the practice structure was no very supportive of anyone getting into a rhythm.....

Perhaps once practice ramps up with more 11on11 he can find a rhythm. The one positive note is that we know we have a very accurate #2, and what looks to be a very good #3.
 

BabyIrish

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Oh, don’t get me wrong, concern is valid. Your post was a complete overreaction that said you were “done with him” for missing a few throws. And that fact that you completely downplay his ability to run as a nonfactor is hilarious. It’s a huge part of the offense. He was literally recruited, in part, because of that attribute

Those throws were awful, inexcusably awful. That shouldn’t be happening for a guy in his fourth year in the program. He’s been inconsistent in practice which is what he was last year. By all accounts Book is even better, at the very least consistent. So why not go with the guy who’s consistent just because the other guy can run. Doesn’t make sense to me.
 

Irish YJ

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Those throws were awful, inexcusably awful. That shouldn’t be happening for a guy in his fourth year in the program. He’s been inconsistent in practice which is what he was last year. By all accounts Book is even better, at the very least consistent. So why not go with the guy who’s consistent just because the other guy can run. Doesn’t make sense to me.

I think BK is playing this out, and I think he should. Still 3 weeks before scUM. I'd bet he's going to ramp up 11on11 drills over the next two weeks, and if BW is still tossing ducks, then he'll move to Book with a week to go. Not sure it's time to use the hook just yet, with the minimal 11on11 to grade.
 
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