2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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IrishinSyria

In truth lies victory
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They want none of either...which is why they will lose again.

Don't think for one min that this won't comeback to bite the left in the ass

Maybe.

There are two schools of thought on this- one is that the Dems lost because they lost rust belt whites and that they should try to understand why and attempt to bring them back into the fold.

Another is that Dems were going to lose those voters no matter what and that turnout will be the key in future elections. Try to capture the anger and shock right now and build on it for four years.

Personally, I think there's probably middle ground. Work with Trump where there's common ground (his infrastructure plan is essentially Obama's), resist when his actions would infringe on the rights of vulnerable people, and give him enough rope to hang himself (if he wants to preserve all the benefits of the ACA without any of the compromises designed to make it work, he can be my guest).
 

IrishBroker

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15056226_923572154409752_4923831156647606189_n.jpg
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I'm introducing a bill to make sure the Electoral College can be attended without Incurring crippling student debt.</p>— Dr Hugo Hackenbush (@MangyLover) <a href="https://twitter.com/MangyLover/status/798612992883445761">November 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>




Compromise we can believe in!
 
B

Buster Bluth

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You wouldn't NEED to. It would certainly help. But cultivating a smarter electorate would be a much more advantageous method. If people would quit acting like zombies and regurgitating the falsehoods that Trump said "Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers", or that Hillary Clinton ordered Seal Team Six to stand down when they could have saved Chris Stevens' (et al) lives in Benghazi, then candidates could run an honest, clean campaign, and not have to worry about what donors might want in return.

Hmmm successfully getting ~120,000,000 people to do a better job avoiding their party's propaganda, becoming informed, and dropping their biases....or a law banning 535 Congresspeople from getting donations. Which one do you think will be easier?

I'd argue the first one isn't even possible. We've never had a "smart" electorate, and I doubt one has ever existed.

Those two ideas aren't even remotely related. The problem is not the amount of money involved in politics; the problem is that career politicians can't do anything else!! Their entire financial security revolves around having some kind of influence to trade for wealth. If they weren't in office, they would be just another shmuck trying to get by. Trump is already rich, and will be just as rich when he leaves office. He doesn't have to worry about a war chest for reelection, because he has a lavish lifestyle to return to, outside of politics. He doesn't owe his donors anything, and he isn't dependent on them for anything. If we put term limits in place, then that would go a long way to curing the quid pro quo problem in politics.

Dude, what? This is one of the most flabbergasting paragraphs I've ever read on IE. How can you honestly say money in politics isn't a problem? You literally mention the damn solution to most of our problems with "He doesn't owe his donors anything, and he isn't dependent on them for anything."

We aren't even talking about Trump or executives anyway. It's about Congress, and they'll all tell you money is absolutely crucial to the job so they spend like half of their time fundraising!

And most of Congress has expertise outside of Congressional matters:

imrs.php


I don't even know what else to say.
 

IrishinSyria

In truth lies victory
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Yeah, you're right. Got to let Trump focus on more important things first like getting Bannon installed.
 

kmoose

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Hmmm successfully getting ~120,000,000 people to do a better job avoiding their party's propaganda, becoming informed, and dropping their biases....or a law banning 535 Congresspeople from getting donations. Which one do you think will be easier?

I'd argue the first one isn't even possible. We've never had a "smart" electorate, and I doubt one has ever existed.

That's probably fair enough, but an informed electorate would not be electing the person with the most name recognition, or those that are the most skilled manipulators. It's not going to happen overnight, but if we started expecting more from our own family, friends, and neighbors, that might be a good start.

Dude, what? This is one of the most flabbergasting paragraphs I've ever read on IE. How can you honestly say money in politics isn't a problem? You literally mention the damn solution to most of our problems with "He doesn't owe his donors anything, and he isn't dependent on them for anything."

It's not that difficult a concept to grasp. The money in politics is not inherently evil, on its own. That money buys advertising and rents live venues that allow candidates to inform the public of what they stand for (in an ideal world, of course). What makes the money evil is the other stuff that it buys; votes, influence, special access. You can still allow some money, if you just get rid of the evil stuff that it buys.
 

GoIrish41

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drayer54

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I mean, they can wait?

A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....
 

GoIrish41

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A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....

Well that makes me feel better ....
 

NorthDakota

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A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....

So...he is Boston College and she is ND?
 

IrishinSyria

In truth lies victory
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A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....

I still buy the South Park theory on this

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/p1xiAXMqJIQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

*warning for language
 

connor_in

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WTF !!!!!

Hottest of all hot takes: Hillary Clinton not only won, but joined the elite class of ‘more-than-president’ – twitchy.com

Hillary Clinton Is More Than a President

… The presidency is too small for her. She belongs to a much more elite class of Americans, the more-than-presidents. Neil Armstrong, Martin Luther King Jr., Alexander Fucking Hamilton.

Hillary Clinton did everything right in this campaign, and she won more votes than her opponent did. She won. She cannot be faulted, criticized, or analyzed for even one more second. Instead, she will be decorated as an epochal heroine far too extraordinary to be contained by the mere White House.
 

GATTACA!

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A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....

One candidate was already assuming she'd won and the other one was flying to 3 or 4 different battleground states every day. Who would have thought coasting to the end was a bad strategy. If that dirty Obama would have just worked a little harder Clinton could have won.


3cd8a33a.png
 

yankeehater

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One candidate was already assuming she'd won and the other one was flying to 3 or 4 different battleground states every day. Who would have thought coasting to the end was a bad strategy. If that dirty Obama would have just worked a little harder Clinton could have won.



3cd8a33a.png

As ND fans, we know all about the prevent defense and how that usually turns out.
 

BGIF

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A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....

So...he is Boston College and she is ND?



Sorry, must be over my head.

Last I looked ND (your she) has a 5 game win streak over BC (your he) and a 14-9 record overall. Aside from a 6 game win streak during the Willingham-Weis Dark Ages when the likes of Connecticut and Syracuse were beating ND, BC hasn't been prepping nor campaigning ... just losing.
 

BGIF

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One candidate was already assuming she'd won and the other one was flying to 3 or 4 different battleground states every day. Who would have thought coasting to the end was a bad strategy. If that dirty Obama would have just worked a little harder Clinton could have won.

...

No sitting or former president in history campaigned as hard as Obama did for Hillary ( and his "third" term). See NPR article.

President Obama Campaigning For Clinton Is Historic. It Hasn't Happened in 100 Years : NPR

Barack and Michell both worked their butts off yet 1.1 million African Americans that voted in 2012 stayed home this time because of disenchantment. 90,000 of them in Detroit alone. Over 80,000 Michigan voters refused to vote for any Presidential candidate leaving the line blank.

But as someone once said, infamously ... "At this point what difference does it matter?"
 
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BGIF

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Stupid comments like these from a pair of yokels make me want to curl up in a safe tree and cry.

We all did descend from apes, didn't we?

Yes we did.
Hopefully that yokel will be removed from office quickly. Not a big fan of the Obamas, but I hate prejudice rednecks, or prejudice anywho...

Really BGIF? Maybe you are missing Italics. Lol. I don't think these yokels are the type of people who "believe" we are evolved primates in the first place soooo... I guess they really are using Ape in the same way the racists use "Ape" to degrade black people.

It's funny because we are all primates but because a certain group of people refuse to believe the truth they choose to use that fact to hurt another human being while being oblivious to the same being true for them

This something that popped up recently from a conservative cartoonist:

michelle2.jpg

Notice that Michelle is shown as intimidating, muscular and even has what can only be described a "bulge" compared to Melania. But go ahead and deflect true things by being dismissive of those intended targets.


Really, I don't recall using an Italic font to make a point on I.E. Sardonic humor is wasted when you have to put it in blinking lights to alert the reader.

As for using apes to lampoon (or insult), the legendary cartoonist Nast did that with the Irish 150 years or so ago. It not unique to blacks anymore than Howard Cosell's chimpanzee comment to describe a diminutive, NFL RB scurrying for positive yardage among giant defensive linemen was. Cosell was doing (wait for it) ... color commentary and he used at term he affectionately used to describe his grandchildren as rugrats. Cosell lost his job in a witch hunt. Both parties in this situation did too.

I don't believe Ms Taylor was being affection nor cute in the least, just mean. Something she realized last Friday when she resigned from her appointment. The mayor resigned Tuesday over her acknowledgment of the mean spirited picture.

As for Michelle I always though she was a "big" framed, muscular, aggressive, women who would talk trash and fiercely contest every rebound on a court with Ruth Riley ... with better results than her husband.

As for "the bulge" in the cartoon I'd have missed it entirely if you didn't point it out. Unlike President Elect Trump and Former President Clinton it's never been my primary point of focus nor point of contact. Besides in the time of gender identity, I didn't think any of us were supposed to focus there.
 
C

Cackalacky

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Really, I don't recall using an Italic font to make a point on I.E. Sardonic humor is wasted when you have to put it in blinking lights to alert the reader.

As for using apes to lampoon (or insult), the legendary cartoonist Nast did that with the Irish 150 years or so ago. It not unique to blacks anymore than Howard Cosell's chimpanzee comment to describe a diminutive, NFL RB scurrying for positive yardage among giant defensive linemen was. Cosell was doing (wait for it) ... color commentary and he used at term he affectionately used to describe his grandchildren as rugrats. Cosell lost his job in a witch hunt. Both parties in this situation did too.

I don't believe Ms Taylor was being affection nor cute in the least, just mean. Something she realized last Friday when she resigned from her appointment. The mayor resigned Tuesday over her acknowledgment of the mean spirited picture.

As for Michelle I always though she was a "big" framed, muscular, aggressive, women who would talk trash and fiercely contest every rebound on a court with Ruth Riley ... with better results than her husband.

As for "the bulge" in the cartoon I'd have missed it entirely if you didn't point it out. Unlike President Elect Trump and Former President Clinton it's never been my primary point of focus nor point of contact. Besides in the time of gender identity, I didn't think any of us were supposed to focus there.
10-4 good buddy. :)
 

Irish#1

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A few weeks ago Politico ran a cover story on how Hillary was prepping for transition. She was ready for this. Donald was campaigning.

He probably hadn't thought too much about transitioning....

Putting the cart before the horse or counting your chickens before they hatch?

She must have been pretty smug and confident that she would win.
 

Emcee77

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I'm trying not to overreact but the way Trump's transition is going seems to confirm some of my fears about how his administration might be run: haphazardly, in a spirit of pettiness and vindictiveness. Is he really ditching Christie so Jared Kushner can settle an old score over the prosecution of his father? Why does Jared Kushner deserve to have this outsized influence anyway?

The way they are alienating some of the top talent trying to help them ... it's all really disturbing. Nobody wants to hear it, but Washington jobs are tough. When Obama came into office, he was saying a lot of the same "drain the swamp" stuff Trump was saying (although in different terms) and he tried to make his people sign agreements not to go into lobbying after leaving the administration. He had to abandon that position because he couldn't get enough of the top people (the sad reality is that the promise of a $500,000-a-year lobbying gig 5 or 10 years down the road is what gets talented people into politics), and he didn't want to settle for lesser people. If Trump really wants to persist with his run-government-as-business and cut-down-on-bureaucracy-by-holding-civil-servants-accountable positions, then he needs to make compromises to get the best people into his administration. His apparent unwillingness to do that, at least at this early stage, is worrying. Let's hope he ends up taking a different tack when the transition effort really starts to dig in.
 

NDohio

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Ed Klein: Bill Clinton: It's Hillary's Fault, Not Comey's

In the waning days of the presidential campaign, Bill and Hillary Clinton had a knock-down, drag-out fight about her effort to blame FBI Director James Comey for her slump in the polls and looming danger of defeat.

"I was with Bill in Little Rock when he had this shouting match with Hillary on the phone and she accused Comey for reviving the investigation into her use of a private email server and reversing her campaign's momentum," said one of Bill Clinton's closest advisers.

"Bill didn't buy the excuse that Comey would cost Hillary the election," said the source. "As far as he was concerned, all the blame belonged to [campaign manager Robby] Mook, [campaign chairman John] Podesta and Hillary because they displayed a tone-deaf attitude about the feeble economy and its impact on millions and millions of working-class voters.

"Bill was so red in the face during his conversation with Hillary that I worried he was going to have a heart attack. He got so angry that he threw his phone off the roof of his penthouse apartment and toward the Arkansas River."

During the campaign, Bill Clinton felt that he was ignored by Hillary's top advisers when he urged them to make the economy the centerpiece of her campaign. He repeatedly urged them to connect with the people who had been left behind by the revolutions in technology and globalization.

"Bill said that constantly attacking Trump for his defects made Hillary's staff and the media happy, but that it wasn't a message that resonated with voters, especially in the rust belt," the source explained. "Bill always campaigned as a guy who felt your pain, but Hillary came across as someone who was pissed off at her enemy [Trump], not someone who was reaching out and trying to make life better for the white working class."

According to the source, Bill was severely critical of Hillary's decision to reject an invitation to address a St. Patrick's Day event at the University of Notre Dame. Hillary's campaign advisers nixed the idea on the ground that white Catholics were not the audience she needed to reach.

"Bill also said that many African Americans were deeply disappointed with the results of eight years of Obama," the source continued. "Despite more and more government assistance, blacks weren't economically any better off, and black-on-black crime was destroying their communities. He said Hillary should have gone into the South Side of Chicago and condemned the out-of-control violence."

Though Bill conceded that FBI Director Comey's decision to revive Hillary's email scandal created a problem for her campaign, he believed the issue had little impact on the outcome because it had already been baked into the decisions of most voters.

"A big part of Bill's anger toward Hillary was that he was sidelined during the entire campaign by her advisers," said the source. "He can't be effective if he sees himself as just another hired hand. He wasn't listened to and that infuriated him. After all, he knows something about campaigns, and he told me in early October that Hillary and her advisers were blowing it.

"Hillary wouldn't listen. She told Bill that his ideas were old and that he was out of touch. In the end, there was nothing he could do about it because Hillary and her people weren't listening to anything he said."
 
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